Poll

Is it a top five offense with Okafor.

Yes
10 (16.1%)
No
46 (74.2%)
Okafor will look like Sully in Two year's
6 (9.7%)

Total Members Voted: 62

Author Topic: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor  (Read 11476 times)

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Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2016, 12:42:10 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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How did our offense rank last season?

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2016, 02:43:37 AM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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How did our offense rank last season?


 Oddshark.com had them sixth last year behind

 GS
 OKC
.Sac
 Houston
 Portland

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2016, 04:31:48 AM »

Offline The Oracle

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How did our offense rank last season?


 Oddshark.com had them sixth last year behind

 GS
 OKC
.Sac
 Houston
 Portland
I don't know what numbers from Oddshark you are quoting but the ranking looks very similar to points scored per game in which Boston was 5th last year just ahead of Portland.  Whatever numbers they are it is not an accurate depiction of the leagues offenses.  Boston was 13th in offensive rating last year with 103.9 points scored per 100 possessions which is a much better barometer.

As far as Okafor turning the Celtics into a top 5 offense, it just isn't happening.  He would hurt the spacing and adversely affect all other players efficiency that he is on the floor with.  Teams just aren't having much success running their offenses through post scoring bigs.  Defenses have become more sophisticated at defending them and there are basically zero big men in the league with high enough quality decision making skills required to punish defenses out of the post and produce a top 5 offense.

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2016, 05:00:55 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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How did our offense rank last season?


 Oddshark.com had them sixth last year behind

 GS
 OKC
.Sac
 Houston
 Portland
I don't know what numbers from Oddshark you are quoting but the ranking looks very similar to points scored per game in which Boston was 5th last year just ahead of Portland.  Whatever numbers they are it is not an accurate depiction of the leagues offenses.  Boston was 13th in offensive rating last year with 103.9 points scored per 100 possessions which is a much better barometer.

As far as Okafor turning the Celtics into a top 5 offense, it just isn't happening.  He would hurt the spacing and adversely affect all other players efficiency that he is on the floor with.  Teams just aren't having much success running their offenses through post scoring bigs.  Defenses have become more sophisticated at defending them and there are basically zero big men in the league with high enough quality decision making skills required to punish defenses out of the post and produce a top 5 offense.
Yeah it depends how you want to define "top offense".  They were already top 5 in points scored.  Adding Horford will help their offense. 

So then I guess it just depends what Boston would be giving up.  If they added Okafor without any subtractions, sure.   But depending on what Boston would have to give up, maybe not.  Doesn't sound like Philly is willing to trade Okafor away without getting significant pieces back.  If it ended up being a package including someone like Avery Bradley, that would impact our offense.

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2016, 10:12:13 AM »

Offline FreddieJ

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Durant would make this a top 5 offense. Blake Griffin might be able to make it a top 5 offense. Cousins could if he played motivated. James Harden maybe.

But that's the caliber of offensive player you'd need to turn this team into a top 5 offense right away. Okafor is not that type of offensive player.
exactly.  Okafor is a good offensive player and would certainly improve the offense, but no where near enough to make this team a top 5 offense overall.


 Wrong. People he was 20 years old last year! He is absolutely 100℅ on pace to be better than Cousin's. I would much rather have him than Cousin's especially for the asking price.

That's crazy talk. Boogie is a top 15 player in the league while playing for the absolute worst franchise in the sport. Cousins does EVERYTHING better than Okafor (outside of maybe ISO post ups) and to compare the two is laughable. When engaged, Cousins is a legit two way player who's an absolute force on the court. If he's lucky, Okafor becomes a new age Al Jefferson. There will never come a day where Okafor is as impactful as Cousins is on the court. His defense, rebounding, versatility and shooting will never improve THAT dramatically. I'd rather give up Brown and another Brooklyn pick for Boogie than give up Smart, KO and whatever else for Okafor. If it all pans out, Boogie can be that transformational superstar that pushes you to contention. Okafor will never be that. Just not talented enough.

As to the original question, no. Okafor would not make this team a top 5 offense. And if he was on this team, the only possible way to play him is off the bench in a 6th man kinda role, where his horrible defense can be less evident and his offensive skills can actually be utilized. The problem with Okafor right now (besides the defense), is that in order to put him on the floor, your whole offense needs to be centered around utilizing his low post skills. Otherwise, he's a total black hole out there. Problem is, if you did that with this suggested line-up, your taking the ball out of IT's hands WAY too much, your taking too many possessions away from a Horford/Thomas P&R, and your giving a lot leas shots to the Bradley, Crowder's and Olynyk's of the world, all of which would result in a net negative to the offense. When you add in the fact that he can't guard basically any "stretch" bigs, or switch on defense AT ALL, or protect the rim, it becomes clear he's just not playable in the starting line up.

I get that Okafor has a really pretty post game. I get that he can get buckets when it seems like a lost possession. I get that he's a lot of people's binkie. But mark my words, Ainge wouldn't trade much of substance for him. As a said before the draft, there's no way he moves a top 5 pick for him, or even a guy like Smart and other stuff. He's just not good enough, and he never will be. Very limited ceiling. If all goes well, he'll have a nice long career like Big Al did. Pretty good player, but not one you trade a lot of assets for or build your offense around. And with Okafor, just like with Al, if you don't build your offense around him, he's going to hurt more than he helps.

We should probable let it go, cause Okafor isn't coming here any time soon.




 Your argument is garbage my good man.

 He plays on a bad team, check Philly last year.

 The only thing Cousin's did better as a rookie than Okafor was Rebound better and had more assists. They are both garbage defensively, and Okafor had more blocks per game 1.2 to .8

 Okafor scored more than Cousin's at 17.1 for Okafor, Cousin's 14.1  ppg, and he was much more efficient from the field, a pathetic .430% for Cousin's to a .508% for Okafor.

 Cousin's didn't explode until ages 23 to 26.

 Okafor was better as a rookie. Cousin's fg% was atrocious for a 6'11" big man.

You have any proof Cousins is garbage defensively or is that on some random ill fitting Olympics? Statistically he's one of the best defensive centers in the game the last few years, aside from being more offensively versatile. It'd be hard for me to see Okafor make that jump

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2016, 01:40:37 PM »

Offline BDeCosta26

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Durant would make this a top 5 offense. Blake Griffin might be able to make it a top 5 offense. Cousins could if he played motivated. James Harden maybe.

But that's the caliber of offensive player you'd need to turn this team into a top 5 offense right away. Okafor is not that type of offensive player.
exactly.  Okafor is a good offensive player and would certainly improve the offense, but no where near enough to make this team a top 5 offense overall.


 Wrong. People he was 20 years old last year! He is absolutely 100℅ on pace to be better than Cousin's. I would much rather have him than Cousin's especially for the asking price.

That's crazy talk. Boogie is a top 15 player in the league while playing for the absolute worst franchise in the sport. Cousins does EVERYTHING better than Okafor (outside of maybe ISO post ups) and to compare the two is laughable. When engaged, Cousins is a legit two way player who's an absolute force on the court. If he's lucky, Okafor becomes a new age Al Jefferson. There will never come a day where Okafor is as impactful as Cousins is on the court. His defense, rebounding, versatility and shooting will never improve THAT dramatically. I'd rather give up Brown and another Brooklyn pick for Boogie than give up Smart, KO and whatever else for Okafor. If it all pans out, Boogie can be that transformational superstar that pushes you to contention. Okafor will never be that. Just not talented enough.

As to the original question, no. Okafor would not make this team a top 5 offense. And if he was on this team, the only possible way to play him is off the bench in a 6th man kinda role, where his horrible defense can be less evident and his offensive skills can actually be utilized. The problem with Okafor right now (besides the defense), is that in order to put him on the floor, your whole offense needs to be centered around utilizing his low post skills. Otherwise, he's a total black hole out there. Problem is, if you did that with this suggested line-up, your taking the ball out of IT's hands WAY too much, your taking too many possessions away from a Horford/Thomas P&R, and your giving a lot leas shots to the Bradley, Crowder's and Olynyk's of the world, all of which would result in a net negative to the offense. When you add in the fact that he can't guard basically any "stretch" bigs, or switch on defense AT ALL, or protect the rim, it becomes clear he's just not playable in the starting line up.

I get that Okafor has a really pretty post game. I get that he can get buckets when it seems like a lost possession. I get that he's a lot of people's binkie. But mark my words, Ainge wouldn't trade much of substance for him. As a said before the draft, there's no way he moves a top 5 pick for him, or even a guy like Smart and other stuff. He's just not good enough, and he never will be. Very limited ceiling. If all goes well, he'll have a nice long career like Big Al did. Pretty good player, but not one you trade a lot of assets for or build your offense around. And with Okafor, just like with Al, if you don't build your offense around him, he's going to hurt more than he helps.

We should probable let it go, cause Okafor isn't coming here any time soon.




 Your argument is garbage my good man.

 He plays on a bad team, check Philly last year.

 The only thing Cousin's did better as a rookie than Okafor was Rebound better and had more assists. They are both garbage defensively, and Okafor had more blocks per game 1.2 to .8

 Okafor scored more than Cousin's at 17.1 for Okafor, Cousin's 14.1  ppg, and he was much more efficient from the field, a pathetic .430% for Cousin's to a .508% for Okafor.

 Cousin's didn't explode until ages 23 to 26.

 Okafor was better as a rookie. Cousin's fg% was atrocious for a 6'11" big man.

All that doesn't matter. Rookie seasons, and the raw counting stats they create, are so dependent on personal situation and the context of where that season occurred. For example:

Player 1: 16.7 PPG, 6.3 APG, 6.2 RPG, 1.9 SPG, 41% FG, 32 MPG
Player 2: 6.4 PPG, 3.8 APG, 3.6 RPG, 1.6 SPG, 42% FG, 24 MPG

Player one is MCW, player 2 is Rajon Rondo. Imperfect comparison, sure, but you really can't compare raw counting stats in a guy's rookie year and say "Look! Okafor had better numbers as a rookie, he's gonna be better than Boogie!"

At the end of the day, Boogie is just a much better all around player than Okafor, and he possessed the same skills that make him so good as a rookie, he just couldn't use them as well as he does now. Okafor's problem is that he needs to develop skills he just doesn't have. He's never gonna become a rim protector, he's never gonna be able to switch out on the perimeter, he very likely won't develop a legitimate deep shot, and he doesn't have the needed skill set to become the kind of offensively versatile, dynamic scorer that Boogie is. Nor does he have the skill set to become the plus defender Boogie is when he's engaged.

I would probably bet 100 TP's that Okafor never reaches the top 15/20 player, All-NBA, Multiple time ASG's heights that Boogie has already reached. He would need to develop skills he just doesn't have, where Boogie had those skills, they just needed development.

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2016, 02:03:18 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Cousins vs Okafor is interesting.

Cousins Per-36:  17.8 points, 10.9 rebounds, 3.2 assists, 1.3 steals, 1.1 blocks with 43% shooting
J. Okafor Per-36:  21 points, 8.4 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 0.5 steals, 1.4 blocks, 51% shooting

It'll be interesting to see how Okafor develops over the next few years.  Hard to really judge what he did last year given that it was something of an unprecedented situation.  That team was terrible by design.  Most of his teammates were D-League players.  This year, they have actual NBA talent.  If they keep Okafor, he'll likely be more emotionally invested than he was last year on a team devoid of help that literally wanted to lose games.

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2016, 02:04:01 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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Durant would make this a top 5 offense. Blake Griffin might be able to make it a top 5 offense. Cousins could if he played motivated. James Harden maybe.

But that's the caliber of offensive player you'd need to turn this team into a top 5 offense right away. Okafor is not that type of offensive player.
exactly.  Okafor is a good offensive player and would certainly improve the offense, but no where near enough to make this team a top 5 offense overall.


 Wrong. People he was 20 years old last year! He is absolutely 100℅ on pace to be better than Cousin's. I would much rather have him than Cousin's especially for the asking price.

That's crazy talk. Boogie is a top 15 player in the league while playing for the absolute worst franchise in the sport. Cousins does EVERYTHING better than Okafor (outside of maybe ISO post ups) and to compare the two is laughable. When engaged, Cousins is a legit two way player who's an absolute force on the court. If he's lucky, Okafor becomes a new age Al Jefferson. There will never come a day where Okafor is as impactful as Cousins is on the court. His defense, rebounding, versatility and shooting will never improve THAT dramatically. I'd rather give up Brown and another Brooklyn pick for Boogie than give up Smart, KO and whatever else for Okafor. If it all pans out, Boogie can be that transformational superstar that pushes you to contention. Okafor will never be that. Just not talented enough.

As to the original question, no. Okafor would not make this team a top 5 offense. And if he was on this team, the only possible way to play him is off the bench in a 6th man kinda role, where his horrible defense can be less evident and his offensive skills can actually be utilized. The problem with Okafor right now (besides the defense), is that in order to put him on the floor, your whole offense needs to be centered around utilizing his low post skills. Otherwise, he's a total black hole out there. Problem is, if you did that with this suggested line-up, your taking the ball out of IT's hands WAY too much, your taking too many possessions away from a Horford/Thomas P&R, and your giving a lot leas shots to the Bradley, Crowder's and Olynyk's of the world, all of which would result in a net negative to the offense. When you add in the fact that he can't guard basically any "stretch" bigs, or switch on defense AT ALL, or protect the rim, it becomes clear he's just not playable in the starting line up.

I get that Okafor has a really pretty post game. I get that he can get buckets when it seems like a lost possession. I get that he's a lot of people's binkie. But mark my words, Ainge wouldn't trade much of substance for him. As a said before the draft, there's no way he moves a top 5 pick for him, or even a guy like Smart and other stuff. He's just not good enough, and he never will be. Very limited ceiling. If all goes well, he'll have a nice long career like Big Al did. Pretty good player, but not one you trade a lot of assets for or build your offense around. And with Okafor, just like with Al, if you don't build your offense around him, he's going to hurt more than he helps.

We should probable let it go, cause Okafor isn't coming here any time soon.




 Your argument is garbage my good man.

 He plays on a bad team, check Philly last year.

 The only thing Cousin's did better as a rookie than Okafor was Rebound better and had more assists. They are both garbage defensively, and Okafor had more blocks per game 1.2 to .8

 Okafor scored more than Cousin's at 17.1 for Okafor, Cousin's 14.1  ppg, and he was much more efficient from the field, a pathetic .430% for Cousin's to a .508% for Okafor.

 Cousin's didn't explode until ages 23 to 26.

 Okafor was better as a rookie. Cousin's fg% was atrocious for a 6'11" big man.

You have any proof Cousins is garbage defensively or is that on some random ill fitting Olympics? Statistically he's one of the best defensive centers in the game the last few years, aside from being more offensively versatile. It'd be hard for me to see Okafor make that jump




 You want proof. Watch the guy play. He tries when he wants to and that's not very often.

 Watch him against Okafor here, he literally shows no resistance.

https://youtu.be/RXIZEAo9Fec

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2016, 02:08:42 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Durant would make this a top 5 offense. Blake Griffin might be able to make it a top 5 offense. Cousins could if he played motivated. James Harden maybe.

But that's the caliber of offensive player you'd need to turn this team into a top 5 offense right away. Okafor is not that type of offensive player.
exactly.  Okafor is a good offensive player and would certainly improve the offense, but no where near enough to make this team a top 5 offense overall.


 Wrong. People he was 20 years old last year! He is absolutely 100℅ on pace to be better than Cousin's. I would much rather have him than Cousin's especially for the asking price.

That's crazy talk. Boogie is a top 15 player in the league while playing for the absolute worst franchise in the sport. Cousins does EVERYTHING better than Okafor (outside of maybe ISO post ups) and to compare the two is laughable. When engaged, Cousins is a legit two way player who's an absolute force on the court. If he's lucky, Okafor becomes a new age Al Jefferson. There will never come a day where Okafor is as impactful as Cousins is on the court. His defense, rebounding, versatility and shooting will never improve THAT dramatically. I'd rather give up Brown and another Brooklyn pick for Boogie than give up Smart, KO and whatever else for Okafor. If it all pans out, Boogie can be that transformational superstar that pushes you to contention. Okafor will never be that. Just not talented enough.

As to the original question, no. Okafor would not make this team a top 5 offense. And if he was on this team, the only possible way to play him is off the bench in a 6th man kinda role, where his horrible defense can be less evident and his offensive skills can actually be utilized. The problem with Okafor right now (besides the defense), is that in order to put him on the floor, your whole offense needs to be centered around utilizing his low post skills. Otherwise, he's a total black hole out there. Problem is, if you did that with this suggested line-up, your taking the ball out of IT's hands WAY too much, your taking too many possessions away from a Horford/Thomas P&R, and your giving a lot leas shots to the Bradley, Crowder's and Olynyk's of the world, all of which would result in a net negative to the offense. When you add in the fact that he can't guard basically any "stretch" bigs, or switch on defense AT ALL, or protect the rim, it becomes clear he's just not playable in the starting line up.

I get that Okafor has a really pretty post game. I get that he can get buckets when it seems like a lost possession. I get that he's a lot of people's binkie. But mark my words, Ainge wouldn't trade much of substance for him. As a said before the draft, there's no way he moves a top 5 pick for him, or even a guy like Smart and other stuff. He's just not good enough, and he never will be. Very limited ceiling. If all goes well, he'll have a nice long career like Big Al did. Pretty good player, but not one you trade a lot of assets for or build your offense around. And with Okafor, just like with Al, if you don't build your offense around him, he's going to hurt more than he helps.

We should probable let it go, cause Okafor isn't coming here any time soon.




 Your argument is garbage my good man.

 He plays on a bad team, check Philly last year.

 The only thing Cousin's did better as a rookie than Okafor was Rebound better and had more assists. They are both garbage defensively, and Okafor had more blocks per game 1.2 to .8

 Okafor scored more than Cousin's at 17.1 for Okafor, Cousin's 14.1  ppg, and he was much more efficient from the field, a pathetic .430% for Cousin's to a .508% for Okafor.

 Cousin's didn't explode until ages 23 to 26.

 Okafor was better as a rookie. Cousin's fg% was atrocious for a 6'11" big man.

You have any proof Cousins is garbage defensively or is that on some random ill fitting Olympics? Statistically he's one of the best defensive centers in the game the last few years, aside from being more offensively versatile. It'd be hard for me to see Okafor make that jump




 You want proof. Watch the guy play. He tries when he wants to and that's not very often.

 Watch him against Okafor here, he literally shows no resistance.

https://youtu.be/RXIZEAo9Fec

Oh is that the game in which rookie Okafor put up 26 points, 10 rebounds and 5 assists (61% shooting)

vs 6th Year Cousins who had 28 points, 12 rebounds and 5 assists (44% shooting)?

Interesting.

Gonna be fun to see how Okafor develops.  I'd like to see how he plays when he's got a reason to be motivated and is surrounded by actual NBA talent.  I wish we'd find some way to get him, but it sounds like Philly isn't parting with him without getting a significant return. 
« Last Edit: August 27, 2016, 02:17:42 PM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2016, 03:01:13 PM »

Offline FreddieJ

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Durant would make this a top 5 offense. Blake Griffin might be able to make it a top 5 offense. Cousins could if he played motivated. James Harden maybe.

But that's the caliber of offensive player you'd need to turn this team into a top 5 offense right away. Okafor is not that type of offensive player.
exactly.  Okafor is a good offensive player and would certainly improve the offense, but no where near enough to make this team a top 5 offense overall.


 Wrong. People he was 20 years old last year! He is absolutely 100℅ on pace to be better than Cousin's. I would much rather have him than Cousin's especially for the asking price.

That's crazy talk. Boogie is a top 15 player in the league while playing for the absolute worst franchise in the sport. Cousins does EVERYTHING better than Okafor (outside of maybe ISO post ups) and to compare the two is laughable. When engaged, Cousins is a legit two way player who's an absolute force on the court. If he's lucky, Okafor becomes a new age Al Jefferson. There will never come a day where Okafor is as impactful as Cousins is on the court. His defense, rebounding, versatility and shooting will never improve THAT dramatically. I'd rather give up Brown and another Brooklyn pick for Boogie than give up Smart, KO and whatever else for Okafor. If it all pans out, Boogie can be that transformational superstar that pushes you to contention. Okafor will never be that. Just not talented enough.

As to the original question, no. Okafor would not make this team a top 5 offense. And if he was on this team, the only possible way to play him is off the bench in a 6th man kinda role, where his horrible defense can be less evident and his offensive skills can actually be utilized. The problem with Okafor right now (besides the defense), is that in order to put him on the floor, your whole offense needs to be centered around utilizing his low post skills. Otherwise, he's a total black hole out there. Problem is, if you did that with this suggested line-up, your taking the ball out of IT's hands WAY too much, your taking too many possessions away from a Horford/Thomas P&R, and your giving a lot leas shots to the Bradley, Crowder's and Olynyk's of the world, all of which would result in a net negative to the offense. When you add in the fact that he can't guard basically any "stretch" bigs, or switch on defense AT ALL, or protect the rim, it becomes clear he's just not playable in the starting line up.

I get that Okafor has a really pretty post game. I get that he can get buckets when it seems like a lost possession. I get that he's a lot of people's binkie. But mark my words, Ainge wouldn't trade much of substance for him. As a said before the draft, there's no way he moves a top 5 pick for him, or even a guy like Smart and other stuff. He's just not good enough, and he never will be. Very limited ceiling. If all goes well, he'll have a nice long career like Big Al did. Pretty good player, but not one you trade a lot of assets for or build your offense around. And with Okafor, just like with Al, if you don't build your offense around him, he's going to hurt more than he helps.

We should probable let it go, cause Okafor isn't coming here any time soon.




 Your argument is garbage my good man.

 He plays on a bad team, check Philly last year.

 The only thing Cousin's did better as a rookie than Okafor was Rebound better and had more assists. They are both garbage defensively, and Okafor had more blocks per game 1.2 to .8

 Okafor scored more than Cousin's at 17.1 for Okafor, Cousin's 14.1  ppg, and he was much more efficient from the field, a pathetic .430% for Cousin's to a .508% for Okafor.

 Cousin's didn't explode until ages 23 to 26.

 Okafor was better as a rookie. Cousin's fg% was atrocious for a 6'11" big man.

You have any proof Cousins is garbage defensively or is that on some random ill fitting Olympics? Statistically he's one of the best defensive centers in the game the last few years, aside from being more offensively versatile. It'd be hard for me to see Okafor make that jump




 You want proof. Watch the guy play. He tries when he wants to and that's not very often.

 Watch him against Okafor here, he literally shows no resistance.

https://youtu.be/RXIZEAo9Fec

So that is supposed to trump advanced stats?

The game your referencing was on the tail end of a stretch of him and the team giving up to inspire management to fire Karl last all star break

Okafor is atrocious defensively while Cousins was bad his first few years and is a force now when "trying". It's not safe to assume that for Okafor

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2016, 03:12:08 PM »

Offline Bobshot

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I'm not sure Okafor is nearly enough to make them top 5 offense. What is more likely is they would be better offensively with him, and better defensively with Noel.

There has been a lot of Okafor vs Noel analysis lately in the media, and the data shows Noel makes Philly better defensively. And, I believe, Okafor makes them better offensively. What's missing is Noel has one more year of NBA experience than Okafor, so there is less certainty of Okafor's upside.

I don't think the Celtics can go wrong with either Okafor or Noel. I see them as weak up front defensively and offensively, so either would help.

In my view, Ainge will never win a championship with the current guys he has up front around Horford. Al is good, but he's 30, and has benefitted from Millsap alongside him in Atlanta. He doesn't have that luxury in Boston.

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2016, 03:54:22 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I'm not sure Okafor is nearly enough to make them top 5 offense. What is more likely is they would be better offensively with him, and better defensively with Noel.

There has been a lot of Okafor vs Noel analysis lately in the media, and the data shows Noel makes Philly better defensively. And, I believe, Okafor makes them better offensively. What's missing is Noel has one more year of NBA experience than Okafor, so there is less certainty of Okafor's upside.

I don't think the Celtics can go wrong with either Okafor or Noel. I see them as weak up front defensively and offensively, so either would help.

In my view, Ainge will never win a championship with the current guys he has up front around Horford. Al is good, but he's 30, and has benefitted from Millsap alongside him in Atlanta. He doesn't have that luxury in Boston.
We were top 5 last year in points scored already.  Our FG% and 3P% were pretty terrible, though.

Horford should help a bit with that.  Both his FG% and 3P% were higher than our team average last year.     

Okafor would help as well.  He's already proven he can score pretty efficiently with zero help.  Imagine him with actual talent surrounding him.

Problem is, we still lack consistent shooting and we can't really properly guess what the team would like like with Okafor without knowing what we would have to give up to acquire Okafor.  Like I said before, if a theoretical package required sending Avery Bradley, that's going to be a decent hit to our offense since Bradley was one of our best shooters.   I guess this thought experiment is based on the idea that we'd add Okafor without giving up anything.   Doing that, the team offense would be improved.  How much improved depends on how you are defining the top offenses.

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2016, 03:59:28 PM »

Offline The Oracle

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I'm not sure Okafor is nearly enough to make them top 5 offense. What is more likely is they would be better offensively with him, and better defensively with Noel.

There has been a lot of Okafor vs Noel analysis lately in the media, and the data shows Noel makes Philly better defensively. And, I believe, Okafor makes them better offensively. What's missing is Noel has one more year of NBA experience than Okafor, so there is less certainty of Okafor's upside.

I don't think the Celtics can go wrong with either Okafor or Noel. I see them as weak up front defensively and offensively, so either would help.

In my view, Ainge will never win a championship with the current guys he has up front around Horford. Al is good, but he's 30, and has benefitted from Millsap alongside him in Atlanta. He doesn't have that luxury in Boston.
Phi. scored 99.6 points per 100 possessions in 2370 minutes without Okafor on the floor and scored a mere 92 in the 1591 minutes with him on the floor.  He didn't make Phi. better offensively and he certainly isn't going to help a good teams offense.  The Celtics are in a GREAT situation with the existing bigs they have and should have zero interest in Okafor.

Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2016, 04:02:58 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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How did our offense rank last season?


 Oddshark.com had them sixth last year behind

 GS
 OKC
.Sac
 Houston
 Portland
I don't know what numbers from Oddshark you are quoting but the ranking looks very similar to points scored per game in which Boston was 5th last year just ahead of Portland.  Whatever numbers they are it is not an accurate depiction of the leagues offenses.  Boston was 13th in offensive rating last year with 103.9 points scored per 100 possessions which is a much better barometer.

As far as Okafor turning the Celtics into a top 5 offense, it just isn't happening.  He would hurt the spacing and adversely affect all other players efficiency that he is on the floor with.  Teams just aren't having much success running their offenses through post scoring bigs.  Defenses have become more sophisticated at defending them and there are basically zero big men in the league with high enough quality decision making skills required to punish defenses out of the post and produce a top 5 offense.
for me thats what the whole okafor discussion comes down to. He is a terrific post talent.  I didn’t watch a ton of him this season outside of highlight packages and Celtics games. I also have a healthy distrust for Philly stats, both advanced and otherwise. So to evaluate Okafor I read and watched as much as I could and then basically went back and watched him in college. Listening to announcers and analysts gush over Okafors skills was incredible. I heard him compared to Tim Duncan(strictly in his footwork and post ability) countless times. Now before you reply with all the eyerolls saying we shouldn’t compare Okafor to Duncan hear me out. It is my understanding that Timmy came out of college a complete player.  He was a terrific defender, a terrific rebounder you name it, he could do it. Im not saying Okafor is Duncan. However I am making the bold claim, that Okafors abilities in the post are comparable to Duncan’s at their respective ages. I also noticed that Jahlil seems like he could pack on some more muscle(and lose some fat) without losing any quickness(which he cant afford to lose). If he stacks on this muscle he would be able to be even more dominant in the post. Second, I noticed Okafor was a very good passer out of the post at Duke. This ability has NOT translated to the NBA and there are two possible reasons why. It may be that Philly was absolute trash and had not floor spacing and thus Okafor struggled to pass the ball out of the post or the alternative would be that Okafor was only able to pass at Duke because of his height and length which allowed him to see over everything. I personally am blaming Philly for this one. I also think Okafors athleticism and stroke are underrated. His form looks very nice and he has the explosiveness and handle to blow by any plodders that get put on him.

I see Okafor as a lot like Brook Lopez. Lopez is nice, but it is hard to build a good team around the guy in the modern NBA. Role players are subject to the trends of the league. Kendrick Perkins cannot really exist in the modern NBA while a decade ago he was a valuable piece. Guys with elite talent transcend these trends.  If Okafor develops to be a poor man’s brook lopez then his inability to defend stretch the floor and rebound will make it near impossible to build a winner with him. However if his post talent can reach an elite level then I think other teams will be forced to adapt to him. Elite talent wins. I believe that Jahlil is an elite talent. Unfortunately I don’t really see a trade that makes sense to acquire him.
Quote
there are basically zero big men in the league with high enough quality decision making skills required to punish defenses out of the post and produce a top 5 offense.
tldr: There arent any at the moment, but Jahlil might just have the talent to be that guy.
Quote from: George W. Bush
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Re: Poll: would the offense be top 5 with Okafor
« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2016, 04:04:20 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I'm not sure Okafor is nearly enough to make them top 5 offense. What is more likely is they would be better offensively with him, and better defensively with Noel.

There has been a lot of Okafor vs Noel analysis lately in the media, and the data shows Noel makes Philly better defensively. And, I believe, Okafor makes them better offensively. What's missing is Noel has one more year of NBA experience than Okafor, so there is less certainty of Okafor's upside.

I don't think the Celtics can go wrong with either Okafor or Noel. I see them as weak up front defensively and offensively, so either would help.

In my view, Ainge will never win a championship with the current guys he has up front around Horford. Al is good, but he's 30, and has benefitted from Millsap alongside him in Atlanta. He doesn't have that luxury in Boston.
Phi. scored 99.6 points per 100 possessions in 2370 minutes without Okafor on the floor and scored a mere 92 in the 1591 minutes with him on the floor.  He didn't make Phi. better offensively and he certainly isn't going to help a good teams offense.  The Celtics are in a GREAT situation with the existing bigs they have and should have zero interest in Okafor.
Just like the 17ppg number he posted, I think the on/off splits from Philly should be taken with a major grain of salt. It was a Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.show over there.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.