Author Topic: Did Lochte and the other swimmers make up a Robbery?  (Read 6809 times)

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Re: Did Lochte and the other swimmers make up a Robbery?
« Reply #75 on: August 24, 2016, 10:41:55 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I think mainly what we have to remember is that as much as people criticize law enforcement in our country, we are very fortunate, our laws and law enforcement officials operate at a very high standard that is not commonly found outside the US. Just don't take it for granted when traveling outside the US.
Oh this is absolutely true.  Frankly, I'm surprised there weren't more stories of governmental bribes and corruption coming out of the Olympics.  Third-World Countries are just different animals entirely.
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Re: Did Lochte and the other swimmers make up a Robbery?
« Reply #76 on: August 24, 2016, 10:54:24 AM »

Offline hpantazo

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I'm sure a court of law in Brazil would think otherwise , and that's all that really matters in this situation. If there was no fabricated robbery story why did each of the swimmers apologize now that they at safely back home? Why do they need to save face if they did nothing wrong but instead were extorted as you claim? Why did their lawyer allow them to pay 11,000 dollars instead of getting them released? Because they broke the laws in a foreign country and they know it.

Re: Did Lochte and the other swimmers make up a Robbery?
« Reply #77 on: August 24, 2016, 11:26:53 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I'm sure a court of law in Brazil would think otherwise , and that's all that really matters in this situation. If there was no fabricated robbery story why did each of the swimmers apologize now that they at safely back home? Why do they need to save face if they did nothing wrong but instead were extorted as you claim? Why did their lawyer allow them to pay 11,000 dollars instead of getting them released? Because they broke the laws in a foreign country and they know it.
They apologized for being a distraction which the result of them being drunken morons. I mean here is Feigen's "First and foremost I would like to apologize for the serious distractions from the Olympics, Rio de Janeiro, and Team USA," You notice he never apologized for making anything up, just for being a distraction. 

He then goes on to describe the robbery as such "One of my teammates told me that a man with a gun was standing outside the cab.  We then got out of the cab and I paid the driver the fare. As I walked away, the man with the gun pointed it at me and my teammate and ordered us, in Portuguese, to sit. This was the first time I have ever had a gun pointed at me and I was terrified. I put my hands up and sat down on the curb. It became apparent that the man with the gun was telling us to pay, and I was unsure if they were affiliated with the gas station. Gunnar Bentz and I gave the man some money. "

And for the record, Feigen is the only one that paid anything (other than at the gas station) and he had no passport as it was taken from him.  He absolutely could have waited it out or had his lawyers get him out, but by then he would have been free to go anyway but would have been forced to stay in Brasil for at least a month by a corrupt foreign government.  It was thus cheaper for him to just pay the fine and leave then find lodging and other accommodations in Rio for a month.
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Re: Did Lochte and the other swimmers make up a Robbery?
« Reply #78 on: August 24, 2016, 12:46:25 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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I'm sure a court of law in Brazil would think otherwise , and that's all that really matters in this situation. If there was no fabricated robbery story why did each of the swimmers apologize now that they at safely back home? Why do they need to save face if they did nothing wrong but instead were extorted as you claim? Why did their lawyer allow them to pay 11,000 dollars instead of getting them released? Because they broke the laws in a foreign country and they know it.
They apologized for being a distraction which the result of them being drunken morons. I mean here is Feigen's "First and foremost I would like to apologize for the serious distractions from the Olympics, Rio de Janeiro, and Team USA," You notice he never apologized for making anything up, just for being a distraction. 

He then goes on to describe the robbery as such "One of my teammates told me that a man with a gun was standing outside the cab.  We then got out of the cab and I paid the driver the fare. As I walked away, the man with the gun pointed it at me and my teammate and ordered us, in Portuguese, to sit. This was the first time I have ever had a gun pointed at me and I was terrified. I put my hands up and sat down on the curb. It became apparent that the man with the gun was telling us to pay, and I was unsure if they were affiliated with the gas station. Gunnar Bentz and I gave the man some money. "

And for the record, Feigen is the only one that paid anything (other than at the gas station) and he had no passport as it was taken from him.  He absolutely could have waited it out or had his lawyers get him out, but by then he would have been free to go anyway but would have been forced to stay in Brasil for at least a month by a corrupt foreign government. It was thus cheaper for him to just pay the fine and leave then find lodging and other accommodations in Rio for a month.

Seriously? You think its cheaper to pay 11,000 dollars than to rent an apt in Rio for a month? I mean, rent in Boston, which is very expensive, is about 2000 a month. Your about 9000 off on that estimate. He knew, and his lawyer knew, that the case would get much worse for him if he fought it and it went to court. That's why he paid 11000. That, and because the only wealthy member of the group, and most guilty member, Lochte, had already left the country and left them high and dry.

Re: Did Lochte and the other swimmers make up a Robbery?
« Reply #79 on: August 24, 2016, 01:43:27 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I'm sure a court of law in Brazil would think otherwise , and that's all that really matters in this situation. If there was no fabricated robbery story why did each of the swimmers apologize now that they at safely back home? Why do they need to save face if they did nothing wrong but instead were extorted as you claim? Why did their lawyer allow them to pay 11,000 dollars instead of getting them released? Because they broke the laws in a foreign country and they know it.
They apologized for being a distraction which the result of them being drunken morons. I mean here is Feigen's "First and foremost I would like to apologize for the serious distractions from the Olympics, Rio de Janeiro, and Team USA," You notice he never apologized for making anything up, just for being a distraction. 

He then goes on to describe the robbery as such "One of my teammates told me that a man with a gun was standing outside the cab.  We then got out of the cab and I paid the driver the fare. As I walked away, the man with the gun pointed it at me and my teammate and ordered us, in Portuguese, to sit. This was the first time I have ever had a gun pointed at me and I was terrified. I put my hands up and sat down on the curb. It became apparent that the man with the gun was telling us to pay, and I was unsure if they were affiliated with the gas station. Gunnar Bentz and I gave the man some money. "

And for the record, Feigen is the only one that paid anything (other than at the gas station) and he had no passport as it was taken from him.  He absolutely could have waited it out or had his lawyers get him out, but by then he would have been free to go anyway but would have been forced to stay in Brasil for at least a month by a corrupt foreign government. It was thus cheaper for him to just pay the fine and leave then find lodging and other accommodations in Rio for a month.

Seriously? You think its cheaper to pay 11,000 dollars than to rent an apt in Rio for a month? I mean, rent in Boston, which is very expensive, is about 2000 a month. Your about 9000 off on that estimate. He knew, and his lawyer knew, that the case would get much worse for him if he fought it and it went to court. That's why he paid 11000. That, and because the only wealthy member of the group, and most guilty member, Lochte, had already left the country and left them high and dry.
to rent a furnished apartment (i.e. a hotel) in a part of town you might actually want to stay, would be very expensive.

Except it wouldn't get much worse.  There have been numerous reports from all kinds of Brasilian lawyers that have said, he never filed a false report and thus couldn't be charged for filing one.  This was a shakedown.  Plain and simple.
Ohio State 2014/15 National Champions.

Re: Did Lochte and the other swimmers make up a Robbery?
« Reply #80 on: August 24, 2016, 01:53:26 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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I'm sure a court of law in Brazil would think otherwise , and that's all that really matters in this situation. If there was no fabricated robbery story why did each of the swimmers apologize now that they at safely back home? Why do they need to save face if they did nothing wrong but instead were extorted as you claim? Why did their lawyer allow them to pay 11,000 dollars instead of getting them released? Because they broke the laws in a foreign country and they know it.
They apologized for being a distraction which the result of them being drunken morons. I mean here is Feigen's "First and foremost I would like to apologize for the serious distractions from the Olympics, Rio de Janeiro, and Team USA," You notice he never apologized for making anything up, just for being a distraction. 

He then goes on to describe the robbery as such "One of my teammates told me that a man with a gun was standing outside the cab.  We then got out of the cab and I paid the driver the fare. As I walked away, the man with the gun pointed it at me and my teammate and ordered us, in Portuguese, to sit. This was the first time I have ever had a gun pointed at me and I was terrified. I put my hands up and sat down on the curb. It became apparent that the man with the gun was telling us to pay, and I was unsure if they were affiliated with the gas station. Gunnar Bentz and I gave the man some money. "

And for the record, Feigen is the only one that paid anything (other than at the gas station) and he had no passport as it was taken from him.  He absolutely could have waited it out or had his lawyers get him out, but by then he would have been free to go anyway but would have been forced to stay in Brasil for at least a month by a corrupt foreign government. It was thus cheaper for him to just pay the fine and leave then find lodging and other accommodations in Rio for a month.

Seriously? You think its cheaper to pay 11,000 dollars than to rent an apt in Rio for a month? I mean, rent in Boston, which is very expensive, is about 2000 a month. Your about 9000 off on that estimate. He knew, and his lawyer knew, that the case would get much worse for him if he fought it and it went to court. That's why he paid 11000. That, and because the only wealthy member of the group, and most guilty member, Lochte, had already left the country and left them high and dry.
to rent a furnished apartment (i.e. a hotel) in a part of town you might actually want to stay, would be very expensive.

Except it wouldn't get much worse.  There have been numerous reports from all kinds of Brasilian lawyers that have said, he never filed a false report and thus couldn't be charged for filing one.  This was a shakedown.  Plain and simple.

That's just plain inaccurate. A brief google search of rates for furnished apartments and hotel rooms in Rio in safe areas at average prices will quickly show you that your estimate is HUGELY off. Also, if Feigen was sure he would be found innocent, he would also get reimbursed his costs of lodging during the investigation and trial.

Again, Feigen is not wealthy like Lochte, and he had a US lawyer with him. He wasnt shaken down alone by thugs, he was in the custody of law enforcement with a US lawyer by his side. Why in the world would he give up 11000 dollars if he was certain he was innocent and he would go free if he fought it?

Re: Did Lochte and the other swimmers make up a Robbery?
« Reply #81 on: August 24, 2016, 01:54:42 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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I think mainly what we have to remember is that as much as people criticize law enforcement in our country, we are very fortunate, our laws and law enforcement officials operate at a very high standard that is not commonly found outside the US. Just don't take it for granted when traveling outside the US.
Oh this is absolutely true.  Frankly, I'm surprised there weren't more stories of governmental bribes and corruption coming out of the Olympics.  Third-World Countries are just different animals entirely.

At least this we can agree on  :)

Re: Did Lochte and the other swimmers make up a Robbery?
« Reply #82 on: August 24, 2016, 04:34:27 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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I think mainly what we have to remember is that as much as people criticize law enforcement in our country, we are very fortunate, our laws and law enforcement officials operate at a very high standard that is not commonly found outside the US. Just don't take it for granted when traveling outside the US.
Oh this is absolutely true.  Frankly, I'm surprised there weren't more stories of governmental bribes and corruption coming out of the Olympics.  Third-World Countries are just different animals entirely.

At least this we can agree on  :)
and then again, maybe less then we would like to think...

http://www.juancole.com/2013/12/corrupt-country-world.html
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy ó not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
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Re: Did Lochte and the other swimmers make up a Robbery?
« Reply #83 on: August 24, 2016, 06:57:12 PM »

Offline alley oop

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I think mainly what we have to remember is that as much as people criticize law enforcement in our country, we are very fortunate, our laws and law enforcement officials operate at a very high standard that is not commonly found outside the US. Just don't take it for granted when traveling outside the US.
Oh this is absolutely true.  Frankly, I'm surprised there weren't more stories of governmental bribes and corruption coming out of the Olympics.  Third-World Countries are just different animals entirely.

At least this we can agree on  :)

1. Brazil isnít a 3rd world country
2. The US has over twice the incarceration rate of Brazil, so which country's Justice System is better overall is bit more complicated.
Agree a fine of $10,800 for giving police false testimony about a small potatoes incident isn't typical US Justice.


Re: Did Lochte and the other swimmers make up a Robbery?
« Reply #84 on: August 24, 2016, 07:13:00 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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I think mainly what we have to remember is that as much as people criticize law enforcement in our country, we are very fortunate, our laws and law enforcement officials operate at a very high standard that is not commonly found outside the US. Just don't take it for granted when traveling outside the US.
Oh this is absolutely true.  Frankly, I'm surprised there weren't more stories of governmental bribes and corruption coming out of the Olympics.  Third-World Countries are just different animals entirely.

At least this we can agree on  :)

1. Brazil isnít a 3rd world country
2. The US has over twice the incarceration rate of Brazil, so which country's Justice System is better overall is bit more complicated.
Agree a fine of $10,800 for giving police false testimony about a small potatoes incident isn't typical US Justice.


Yeah, that was not my intention. What I mean basically is that justice systems in other countries are very variable, and what we interpret as corruption can be the norm in some places. It may also work for them, and they may see our justice system as highly unfair and corrupt. There certainly are many people outside the US that are afraid to come here for the fear of being shot by our citizens or the police. I have lived in several places abroad, and I much prefer our law enforcement and justice systems, but that's not true for many other people.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2016, 07:18:53 PM by hpantazo »

Re: Did Lochte and the other swimmers make up a Robbery?
« Reply #85 on: August 25, 2016, 06:58:45 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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It looks like the Brazilian authorities just won't let this go. They just officially charged Lochte with a crime, falsifying a police report, and are requesting that he appears in court:

http://www.boston.com/sports/olympics/2016/08/25/rio-police-charge-lochte-with-false-report-of-robbery

Are those the actions of officials who gave the US swimmers 'a shakedown'? No, more like the actions of authorities who believe the US swimmers tried to get away with a crime.


This CNN article today also states that Feigen falsified testimony to the authorities, and only later on changed it to fit the evidence, which is why he was charged a fine and 15 days of community service which his lawyer negotiated into the 11,000 dollar fine.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/25/americas/ryan-lochte-brazil/index.html

"Feigen said in a statement this week that he was questioned by a detective later that day and gave a statement in which he left out parts about the swimmers urinating behind the building and Lochte pulling down a framed poster.
Days later, as scrutiny on Lochte's story increased, police questioned Feigen again. In his second statement, he gave more details, he said."


This was not 'a shakedown', this was dumb 'youngish' (heck, they weren't even that young) athletes who got caught lying.

« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 07:16:30 PM by hpantazo »

Re: Did Lochte and the other swimmers make up a Robbery?
« Reply #86 on: July 15, 2017, 10:07:16 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Re: Did Lochte and the other swimmers make up a Robbery?
« Reply #87 on: July 15, 2017, 10:32:57 AM »

Offline knuckleballer

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He's an idiot, but all he did was pee behind some bushes behind a store and knock a sandwich sign off the side of a building while drunk.  Dumb, but this should never have turned into an international incident.

Re: Did Lochte and the other swimmers make up a Robbery?
« Reply #88 on: July 15, 2017, 11:32:54 AM »

Offline Amonkey

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He's an idiot, but all he did was pee behind some bushes behind a store and knock a sandwich sign off the side of a building while drunk.  Dumb, but this should never have turned into an international incident.

You're missing the part about him lying about being robbed in Brazil's biggest world stage event on its history. That was a huge offense to Brazilians who live with the threat of robberies and violence every day. It's like a celebrity claiming a hate crime when the person was drunk.
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Re: Did Lochte and the other swimmers make up a Robbery?
« Reply #89 on: July 15, 2017, 12:18:55 PM »

Online jambr380

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He's an idiot, but all he did was pee behind some bushes behind a store and knock a sandwich sign off the side of a building while drunk.  Dumb, but this should never have turned into an international incident.

You're missing the part about him lying about being robbed in Brazil's biggest world stage event on its history. That was a huge offense to Brazilians who live with the threat of robberies and violence every day. It's like a celebrity claiming a hate crime when the person was drunk.

Brazil authorities were just being super-overly-sensitive because they didn't want the bad press. But, you said it - Brazilians live with the threat of robberies and violence everyday - what's another one? If it singled out a particular individual, that would be one thing, but this went WAY too far. A public apology should have been enough.

Lochte was a drunk idiot, but who hasn't been at some point in their life? This just made them look like they were trying to hide the reality of the crime and corruption in that city - which I now see as a place I would never ever want to visit (and I really enjoy visiting foreign countries).