NBA Players vote to fund health care for retired players

[bdm860]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/17159276/national-basketball-players-association-fund-health-insurance-ex-players

Out of the blue, this came across the wire.  Great action by the current players.  Will go for all retired players with at least 3 years experience. 

This is the first US pro league to do something like this.

Wow, this is a great move.  I wonder if the NFL will follow suit at some point, given all of the concussion issues

The NFL...doing the right thing? That's rich.

It's not the NBA (owners), it's the NBAPA (players).  It's coming out of their 49%-51% revenue split of BRI.

It won't be the NFL (owners), but you got to think the NFLPA (players) might step up.

It will be more difficult for NFL players.  There are as many players in training camp in five teams as there are roster spots in the NBA.  NFL players get paid less on average, which probably means union dues form a higher percentage of their paycheck.  Careers are shorter, which means players a) make less money, and b) would be insured for a longer period of time.  Finally, NFL players are much more likely to experience health problems, so the insurance would be considerably more expensive.

this seems to be a bit of a red herring to me.

exactly how much do you think current nfl players would have to pay each for such a program? i doubt it is going to be a large percentage of anyone's salary.

besides, they are also investing in their own futures since the current players would receive this benefit eventually.

it makes sense on many levels.

I think it could cost upwards of $100 million a year to do what the NBPA is doing.  There are approx. 12,000 living former players.  Suppose 2/3 would be covered, that's 8,000 players.  It sounds like the NBPA is giving out top-of-the-line insurance.  Given the risk pool that NFL players could collectively be in, $10,000 per covered player isn't unreasonable.  Furthermore, the NBPA plan covers family members for players with a certain amount of service time, so the amount of covered individuals would rise further.  So yeah, $100 million per year.  That's probably $55-60k per active player.  That'd be over 10% of pre-tax salary for a LOT of players.

I don't see the NFLPA replicating this any time soon.  Maybe something smaller scale, like a subsidy for uninsured former players to purchase insurance on the marketplace.  But with all the health issues NFL players go through in retirement, it would be very expensive to cover them as a group.

I was actually working out some math too, but you beat me to it (I had come up with $80m annually though, but we'll use your number).

Disagree with the conclusion though.  The NFL players got like $3.6b in total salaries last year.  So $100m/$3.6b works out to less than 3% per player.  And that's with the players supposedly getting a raw deal with their last CBA (though I really know nothing about football, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).  Maybe they can recoup some of it in their next CBA in 2020?

Also the NFL doesn't have to mirror the NBA's plan.  It doesn't have to be top of the line or even cover families.  Obviously there's different challenges for the NFL so they'll have to find ways to try to keep the costs down.  But with $3.6b in annual salaries, you don't think they can collectively cover $100m?

[saltlover]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/17159276/national-basketball-players-association-fund-health-insurance-ex-players

Out of the blue, this came across the wire.  Great action by the current players.  Will go for all retired players with at least 3 years experience. 

This is the first US pro league to do something like this.

Wow, this is a great move.  I wonder if the NFL will follow suit at some point, given all of the concussion issues

The NFL...doing the right thing? That's rich.

It's not the NBA (owners), it's the NBAPA (players).  It's coming out of their 49%-51% revenue split of BRI.

It won't be the NFL (owners), but you got to think the NFLPA (players) might step up.

It will be more difficult for NFL players.  There are as many players in training camp in five teams as there are roster spots in the NBA.  NFL players get paid less on average, which probably means union dues form a higher percentage of their paycheck.  Careers are shorter, which means players a) make less money, and b) would be insured for a longer period of time.  Finally, NFL players are much more likely to experience health problems, so the insurance would be considerably more expensive.

this seems to be a bit of a red herring to me.

exactly how much do you think current nfl players would have to pay each for such a program? i doubt it is going to be a large percentage of anyone's salary.

besides, they are also investing in their own futures since the current players would receive this benefit eventually.

it makes sense on many levels.

I think it could cost upwards of $100 million a year to do what the NBPA is doing.  There are approx. 12,000 living former players.  Suppose 2/3 would be covered, that's 8,000 players.  It sounds like the NBPA is giving out top-of-the-line insurance.  Given the risk pool that NFL players could collectively be in, $10,000 per covered player isn't unreasonable.  Furthermore, the NBPA plan covers family members for players with a certain amount of service time, so the amount of covered individuals would rise further.  So yeah, $100 million per year.  That's probably $55-60k per active player.  That'd be over 10% of pre-tax salary for a LOT of players.

I don't see the NFLPA replicating this any time soon.  Maybe something smaller scale, like a subsidy for uninsured former players to purchase insurance on the marketplace.  But with all the health issues NFL players go through in retirement, it would be very expensive to cover them as a group.

I was actually working out some math too, but you beat me to it (I had come up with $80m annually though, but we'll use your number).

Disagree with the conclusion though.  The NFL players got like $3.6b in total salaries last year.  So $100m/$3.6b works out to less than 3% per player.  And that's with the players supposedly getting a raw deal with their last CBA (though I really know nothing about football, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).  Maybe they can recoup some of it in their next CBA in 2020?

Also the NFL doesn't have to mirror the NBA's plan.  It doesn't have to be top of the line or even cover families.  Obviously there's different challenges for the NFL so they'll have to find ways to try to keep the costs down.  But with $3.6b in annual salaries, you don't think they can collectively cover $100m?

I don't.  The NFLPA has been terribly run.  They have a negative balance sheet, over half a billion dollars.  Here's their 990:

https://pp-990.s3.amazonaws.com/2015_03_EO/13-1922622_990O_201403.pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAI7C6X5GT42DHYZIA%2F20160728%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20160728T205808Z&X-Amz-Expires=1800&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=a6e24da2f55f3866cc1df9cdbbff2fb6f9233fa3dde22a187313d2cb8bfd945e

The NBPA, meanwhile, has a positive balance sheet, with net assets over $90 million.  This plan will cost between $12-15 million a year for them, which they expect to be more than covered by the increase in member dues from the cap spike.  The NFLPA is years of dues in debt, much less covering a program that would cost about a third of what they currently take in as dues.

Here's the NBPA 990:
https://pp-990.s3.amazonaws.com/2015_09_EO/23-7038813_990O_201406.pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAI7C6X5GT42DHYZIA%2F20160728%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20160728T210452Z&X-Amz-Expires=1800&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=445ea3ba2203f9ff9d2961b29e52fc7d80249de7b059dec5da6e98cda6888e79

Dues were only a sixth of their revenue in 2014.  They can cover their annual expenses pretty much from royalties and agent fees, and dues are just icing on the cake.  They're in different financial worlds.

EDIT:  Google messed me up and showed me the NFL 990.  I've got the NFLPA one, linked below, but not the time to look at it to see how they're doing -- someone else is free to do so:

https://pp-990.s3.amazonaws.com/2015_01_EO/52-1169809_990O_201402.pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAI7C6X5GT42DHYZIA%2F20160728%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20160728T212815Z&X-Amz-Expires=1800&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=f84294cfbb33b9d56d97d6865de418d3d402ac14ba702d2fb68f76e7779e9ecb

[bdm860]

The NBPA, meanwhile, has a positive balance sheet, with net assets over $90 million.  This plan will cost between $12-15 million a year for them, which they expect to be more than covered by the increase in member dues from the cap spike.  The NFLPA is years of dues in debt, much less covering a program that would cost about a third of what they currently take in as dues.

So looking at your updated links, I see:

NBPA: $33m in revenue ($15m of which is dues/royalties), $12m in expenses, $95m in net assets
NFLPA: $65m in revenue ($54m of which is dues/royalties), $40m in expenses, $217m in net assets


Does this change your opinion at all?

Obviously like you said, the NBA will easily cover there's in dues with the increase in cap spike, and can more easily cover the costs with their net assets as is, but the NFL still appears to be in a good place to handle things. Tack on a 2-3% fee to all all player salaries and we can get this thing off the ground.

[timpiker]

My healthcare stops when I am no longer employed.  I cannot retire for life after a few years of work and get free healthcare until I die.

[Surferdad]

My healthcare stops when I am no longer employed.  I cannot retire for life after a few years of work and get free healthcare until I die.

There's no comparison.  NBA players are lucky to have a 3-year career.  Many don't have other skills that would allow them to work for a decent wage WITH HEALTH CARE BENEFITS for 40 years.

[hwangjini_1]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/17159276/national-basketball-players-association-fund-health-insurance-ex-players

Out of the blue, this came across the wire.  Great action by the current players.  Will go for all retired players with at least 3 years experience. 

This is the first US pro league to do something like this.

Wow, this is a great move.  I wonder if the NFL will follow suit at some point, given all of the concussion issues

The NFL...doing the right thing? That's rich.

It's not the NBA (owners), it's the NBAPA (players).  It's coming out of their 49%-51% revenue split of BRI.

It won't be the NFL (owners), but you got to think the NFLPA (players) might step up.

It will be more difficult for NFL players.  There are as many players in training camp in five teams as there are roster spots in the NBA.  NFL players get paid less on average, which probably means union dues form a higher percentage of their paycheck.  Careers are shorter, which means players a) make less money, and b) would be insured for a longer period of time.  Finally, NFL players are much more likely to experience health problems, so the insurance would be considerably more expensive.

this seems to be a bit of a red herring to me.

exactly how much do you think current nfl players would have to pay each for such a program? i doubt it is going to be a large percentage of anyone's salary.

besides, they are also investing in their own futures since the current players would receive this benefit eventually.

it makes sense on many levels.

I think it could cost upwards of $100 million a year to do what the NBPA is doing.  There are approx. 12,000 living former players.  Suppose 2/3 would be covered, that's 8,000 players.  It sounds like the NBPA is giving out top-of-the-line insurance.  Given the risk pool that NFL players could collectively be in, $10,000 per covered player isn't unreasonable.  Furthermore, the NBPA plan covers family members for players with a certain amount of service time, so the amount of covered individuals would rise further.  So yeah, $100 million per year.  That's probably $55-60k per active player.  That'd be over 10% of pre-tax salary for a LOT of players.

I don't see the NFLPA replicating this any time soon.  Maybe something smaller scale, like a subsidy for uninsured former players to purchase insurance on the marketplace.  But with all the health issues NFL players go through in retirement, it would be very expensive to cover them as a group.

I was actually working out some math too, but you beat me to it (I had come up with $80m annually though, but we'll use your number).

Disagree with the conclusion though.  The NFL players got like $3.6b in total salaries last year.  So $100m/$3.6b works out to less than 3% per player.  And that's with the players supposedly getting a raw deal with their last CBA (though I really know nothing about football, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).  Maybe they can recoup some of it in their next CBA in 2020?

Also the NFL doesn't have to mirror the NBA's plan.  It doesn't have to be top of the line or even cover families.  Obviously there's different challenges for the NFL so they'll have to find ways to try to keep the costs down.  But with $3.6b in annual salaries, you don't think they can collectively cover $100m?

Holy moley! I never thought. I would see the day when salty was out-mathed. 

A. Tp to both of you for good work and helping shed light on this topic.

[hwangjini_1]

My healthcare stops when I am no longer employed.  I cannot retire for life after a few years of work and get free healthcare until I die.

You must live in the US. Pobre cito.