Author Topic: If Brook Lopez were out for 2016-17, how many games do the Nets win?  (Read 12552 times)

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Re: If Brook Lopez were out for 2016-17, how many games do the Nets win?
« Reply #45 on: July 26, 2016, 04:44:32 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Re: If Brook Lopez were out for 2016-17, how many games do the Nets win?
« Reply #46 on: July 26, 2016, 05:11:08 PM »

Offline colincb

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16-18, Scola could hold down the fort and if they simply thing with that Kid McCullough he could be a bouncy 5 who can get out and run.

They'll actually have guards this year too.
They might not win that WITH Lopez.
please explain to me how that team got 5 games worse this offseason. Delusional.
Lol. Still confident after nobody in this entire thread agrees with you? Ill put money down that the Nets don't win 18 games, and I don't care who gets hurt. Put your money where your mouth is, pal.

The difference of course being that they're enormously biased, and I'm not. They won 21 last year with the worst coach not named Byron Scott, nothing at PG and their only wing defender injured.
If we are all "enormously biased" because we're Celtics fans, then why aren't you biased? If you're not a Celtics fan, then get out of this forum and head on over to a Nets one.

On this point, is Vegas somehow enormously biased too?
Vegas odds are designed to drive bets.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Driving betting action doesn’t guarantee profits.

Re: If Brook Lopez were out for 2016-17, how many games do the Nets win?
« Reply #47 on: July 26, 2016, 05:19:52 PM »

Offline Spilling Green Dye

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I would ask if you're serious, but after your similar projection last year I know that you aren't kidding.  After you were so wrong last year, what makes you think that the Nets, and not your accuracy, were the cause of the variance? 

To the OP, if Lopez went out I think the Nets would win 16 games.  With Lopez probably 21.

Re: If Brook Lopez were out for 2016-17, how many games do the Nets win?
« Reply #48 on: July 26, 2016, 05:41:47 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I would ask if you're serious, but after your similar projection last year I know that you aren't kidding.  After you were so wrong last year, what makes you think that the Nets, and not your accuracy, were the cause of the variance? 

To the OP, if Lopez went out I think the Nets would win 16 games.  With Lopez probably 21.
Just a hunch.  Depends how healthy the rest of the roster would remain.

Re: If Brook Lopez were out for 2016-17, how many games do the Nets win?
« Reply #49 on: July 26, 2016, 06:08:53 PM »

Offline dannyboy35

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I'd throw out 15 wins I suppose.

Re: If Brook Lopez were out for 2016-17, how many games do the Nets win?
« Reply #50 on: July 26, 2016, 06:09:54 PM »

Offline dannyboy35

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19 with Lopez.

Re: If Brook Lopez were out for 2016-17, how many games do the Nets win?
« Reply #51 on: July 26, 2016, 06:56:27 PM »

Offline RAAAAAAAANDY

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Johnson, Ellington, Larkin and Sloan are all bad players. Those aren't losses.

And we're really doing per game averages when one guy had Favors and Gobert ahead of him suppressing his playing time? Ok then... That's a fools errand but have at it. Their replacing Robinson with their 1st round pick from a few years ago, Jack's injured awfulness with Lin, the Larkin abomination with Vasquez, getting back RHJ, upgrading defensively at PF because Young was a bad defender, and getting a coach who isn't the east coast version of Byron Scott.

This is a team that was barely breaking double digit 3 point attempts per game for the first month or two getting a guy who's from the Spurs tree, that's a massive upgrade.

Talk about spin! You should be in sales. I'm sure the Nets ticket office could use your help.

(1) Yes, we are going to talk about per-game averages when the player in question is going to be 29 years old and has been in the league 6 years for two different teams. Expecting a breakout season from such a player is possible but unlikely.

(2) They are replacing Robinson with an untested, coming-off-an-injury 1st round pick from a few years ago. This may or may not be an upgrade.

(3) They get an upgrade with Lin over Jack. This is, however, the equivalent of replacing lima beans with plain cauliflower. There is a reason Lin is going to be on his 6th team in 6 years and it is not because he is a good player.

(4) They are replacing Larkin's awfulness with Greivis Vasquez's awfulness (another guy on his 6th team).

(5) They do get back RHJ. It was not like he was a major impact player last year though.

(6) There is no possible way anyone could consider them "upgraded" at PF at this stage. That's laughable.

Anyone can make the argument that virtually any team is better at this point in the offseason unless that team loses a superstar like OKC or Miami. But when you look at a team and compare it to the rest of the league it's hard to see how the Nets suddenly are a significantly better team than their competition. At best the Nets have a more cohesive roster this year rather than some considerable upgrade in talent level. But compared to the other bottom feeders in the East they lost ground. The 76ers added Saric, Bayless, Henderson and the #1 overall pick in the draft. The Knicks think they're a "superteam" now. Orlando added Ibaka among other pieces. The Bucks have better, younger talent than anyone outside of Lopez.

We will see once they play the games. But Vegas has the Nets as the overwhelmingly worst team in the league and the guys who do this with literally hundreds of millions of dollars on the line are rarely wrong. It happens every so often but I'll stick with the odds the experts set in this case.

The Nets are simply a bad team. Without Lopez for the year they would be contenders to set the all-time worst mark.

Name one thing Thad Young is actually good at... Defense? Nah. Shooting? Nah. Rebounding? Nah. Dribbling? Nah.

He's pretty good at opportunistic scoring I guess, but this is his 4th team in 3 years, 3 of which were bottom 3 teams. But yeah, funny how that never got mentioned.

Jarrett Jack is awful, Vasquez is an upgrade over him if he's healthy again and regains his form. Let alone Lin, whose on/off in the playoffs was + 24 points per 100.

And RHJ was already an impact defender, which was a major weakness because neither Bogdanovic or Johnson guarded anybody. And considering Robinson is out of the league I highly doubt McCullogh can be any worse.

And you still haven't addressed getting rid of Lionel Hollins who was terrible.

Re: If Brook Lopez were out for 2016-17, how many games do the Nets win?
« Reply #52 on: July 26, 2016, 07:03:37 PM »

Offline RAAAAAAAANDY

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16-18, Scola could hold down the fort and if they simply thing with that Kid McCullough he could be a bouncy 5 who can get out and run.

They'll actually have guards this year too.
They might not win that WITH Lopez.
please explain to me how that team got 5 games worse this offseason. Delusional.
Lol. Still confident after nobody in this entire thread agrees with you? Ill put money down that the Nets don't win 18 games, and I don't care who gets hurt. Put your money where your mouth is, pal.

The difference of course being that they're enormously biased, and I'm not. They won 21 last year with the worst coach not named Byron Scott, nothing at PG and their only wing defender injured.
If we are all "enormously biased" because we're Celtics fans, then why aren't you biased? If you're not a Celtics fan, then get out of this forum and head on over to a Nets one.

On this point, is Vegas somehow enormously biased too?

Has Vegas even set over-unders for W/L? The offseason isn't even over, so I don't think they're biased. I think they're insane if they're predicting records for rosters that aren't finalized yet.

Re: If Brook Lopez were out for 2016-17, how many games do the Nets win?
« Reply #53 on: July 26, 2016, 08:04:38 PM »

Offline chambers

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Johnson, Ellington, Larkin and Sloan are all bad players. Those aren't losses.

And we're really doing per game averages when one guy had Favors and Gobert ahead of him suppressing his playing time? Ok then... That's a fools errand but have at it. Their replacing Robinson with their 1st round pick from a few years ago, Jack's injured awfulness with Lin, the Larkin abomination with Vasquez, getting back RHJ, upgrading defensively at PF because Young was a bad defender, and getting a coach who isn't the east coast version of Byron Scott.

This is a team that was barely breaking double digit 3 point attempts per game for the first month or two getting a guy who's from the Spurs tree, that's a massive upgrade.

Talk about spin! You should be in sales. I'm sure the Nets ticket office could use your help.

(1) Yes, we are going to talk about per-game averages when the player in question is going to be 29 years old and has been in the league 6 years for two different teams. Expecting a breakout season from such a player is possible but unlikely.

(2) They are replacing Robinson with an untested, coming-off-an-injury 1st round pick from a few years ago. This may or may not be an upgrade.

(3) They get an upgrade with Lin over Jack. This is, however, the equivalent of replacing lima beans with plain cauliflower. There is a reason Lin is going to be on his 6th team in 6 years and it is not because he is a good player.

(4) They are replacing Larkin's awfulness with Greivis Vasquez's awfulness (another guy on his 6th team).

(5) They do get back RHJ. It was not like he was a major impact player last year though.

(6) There is no possible way anyone could consider them "upgraded" at PF at this stage. That's laughable.

Anyone can make the argument that virtually any team is better at this point in the offseason unless that team loses a superstar like OKC or Miami. But when you look at a team and compare it to the rest of the league it's hard to see how the Nets suddenly are a significantly better team than their competition. At best the Nets have a more cohesive roster this year rather than some considerable upgrade in talent level. But compared to the other bottom feeders in the East they lost ground. The 76ers added Saric, Bayless, Henderson and the #1 overall pick in the draft. The Knicks think they're a "superteam" now. Orlando added Ibaka among other pieces. The Bucks have better, younger talent than anyone outside of Lopez.

We will see once they play the games. But Vegas has the Nets as the overwhelmingly worst team in the league and the guys who do this with literally hundreds of millions of dollars on the line are rarely wrong. It happens every so often but I'll stick with the odds the experts set in this case.

The Nets are simply a bad team. Without Lopez for the year they would be contenders to set the all-time worst mark.

Name one thing Thad Young is actually good at... Defense? Nah. Shooting? Nah. Rebounding? Nah. Dribbling? Nah.

He's pretty good at opportunistic scoring I guess, but this is his 4th team in 3 years, 3 of which were bottom 3 teams. But yeah, funny how that never got mentioned.

Jarrett Jack is awful, Vasquez is an upgrade over him if he's healthy again and regains his form. Let alone Lin, whose on/off in the playoffs was + 24 points per 100.

And RHJ was already an impact defender, which was a major weakness because neither Bogdanovic or Johnson guarded anybody. And considering Robinson is out of the league I highly doubt McCullogh can be any worse.

And you still haven't addressed getting rid of Lionel Hollins who was terrible.

You've said this a few times,  I'm not sure why?
Lionel Hollins is considered one of the better coaches in the NBA.
He took the Grizzlies to 56 wins and the Western Conference finals.
Multiple coach of the month awards and multiple votes for coach of the year by his fellow coaches.

All the points you mention are that of opinion, which you're entitled to.
The issue I have with the Nets particularly is again their lack of depth like last season, and the most important factor in their demise:
The teams that are competing with them for the worst record in the NBA have all gotten better, except Sacramento.

"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: If Brook Lopez were out for 2016-17, how many games do the Nets win?
« Reply #54 on: July 26, 2016, 10:54:40 PM »

Offline colincb

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16-18, Scola could hold down the fort and if they simply thing with that Kid McCullough he could be a bouncy 5 who can get out and run.

They'll actually have guards this year too.
They might not win that WITH Lopez.
please explain to me how that team got 5 games worse this offseason. Delusional.
Lol. Still confident after nobody in this entire thread agrees with you? Ill put money down that the Nets don't win 18 games, and I don't care who gets hurt. Put your money where your mouth is, pal.

The difference of course being that they're enormously biased, and I'm not. They won 21 last year with the worst coach not named Byron Scott, nothing at PG and their only wing defender injured.
If we are all "enormously biased" because we're Celtics fans, then why aren't you biased? If you're not a Celtics fan, then get out of this forum and head on over to a Nets one.

On this point, is Vegas somehow enormously biased too?

Has Vegas even set over-unders for W/L? The offseason isn't even over, so I don't think they're biased. I think they're insane if they're predicting records for rosters that aren't finalized yet.

Vegas will make a betting proposition on just about anything, but elections and a few other exceptions. Vegas will just change the odds if the circumstances change or if the betting is too lopsided. Old bets locked in, new bets at the new odds.

Re: If Brook Lopez were out for 2016-17, how many games do the Nets win?
« Reply #55 on: July 26, 2016, 11:08:29 PM »

Offline RAAAAAAAANDY

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Johnson, Ellington, Larkin and Sloan are all bad players. Those aren't losses.

And we're really doing per game averages when one guy had Favors and Gobert ahead of him suppressing his playing time? Ok then... That's a fools errand but have at it. Their replacing Robinson with their 1st round pick from a few years ago, Jack's injured awfulness with Lin, the Larkin abomination with Vasquez, getting back RHJ, upgrading defensively at PF because Young was a bad defender, and getting a coach who isn't the east coast version of Byron Scott.

This is a team that was barely breaking double digit 3 point attempts per game for the first month or two getting a guy who's from the Spurs tree, that's a massive upgrade.

Talk about spin! You should be in sales. I'm sure the Nets ticket office could use your help.

(1) Yes, we are going to talk about per-game averages when the player in question is going to be 29 years old and has been in the league 6 years for two different teams. Expecting a breakout season from such a player is possible but unlikely.

(2) They are replacing Robinson with an untested, coming-off-an-injury 1st round pick from a few years ago. This may or may not be an upgrade.

(3) They get an upgrade with Lin over Jack. This is, however, the equivalent of replacing lima beans with plain cauliflower. There is a reason Lin is going to be on his 6th team in 6 years and it is not because he is a good player.

(4) They are replacing Larkin's awfulness with Greivis Vasquez's awfulness (another guy on his 6th team).

(5) They do get back RHJ. It was not like he was a major impact player last year though.

(6) There is no possible way anyone could consider them "upgraded" at PF at this stage. That's laughable.

Anyone can make the argument that virtually any team is better at this point in the offseason unless that team loses a superstar like OKC or Miami. But when you look at a team and compare it to the rest of the league it's hard to see how the Nets suddenly are a significantly better team than their competition. At best the Nets have a more cohesive roster this year rather than some considerable upgrade in talent level. But compared to the other bottom feeders in the East they lost ground. The 76ers added Saric, Bayless, Henderson and the #1 overall pick in the draft. The Knicks think they're a "superteam" now. Orlando added Ibaka among other pieces. The Bucks have better, younger talent than anyone outside of Lopez.

We will see once they play the games. But Vegas has the Nets as the overwhelmingly worst team in the league and the guys who do this with literally hundreds of millions of dollars on the line are rarely wrong. It happens every so often but I'll stick with the odds the experts set in this case.

The Nets are simply a bad team. Without Lopez for the year they would be contenders to set the all-time worst mark.

Name one thing Thad Young is actually good at... Defense? Nah. Shooting? Nah. Rebounding? Nah. Dribbling? Nah.

He's pretty good at opportunistic scoring I guess, but this is his 4th team in 3 years, 3 of which were bottom 3 teams. But yeah, funny how that never got mentioned.

Jarrett Jack is awful, Vasquez is an upgrade over him if he's healthy again and regains his form. Let alone Lin, whose on/off in the playoffs was + 24 points per 100.

And RHJ was already an impact defender, which was a major weakness because neither Bogdanovic or Johnson guarded anybody. And considering Robinson is out of the league I highly doubt McCullogh can be any worse.

And you still haven't addressed getting rid of Lionel Hollins who was terrible.

You've said this a few times,  I'm not sure why?
Lionel Hollins is considered one of the better coaches in the NBA.
He took the Grizzlies to 56 wins and the Western Conference finals.
Multiple coach of the month awards and multiple votes for coach of the year by his fellow coaches.


Because he was awful last year. Coach of the month and coach of the year awards are an NBA circle jerk. It's like citing Derek Jeter's Gold Gloves despite the fact that he was one of the worst defensive players in baseball history in terms of total runs he cost his team.  Let's review!

Here's Zach Lowe on Lionel Hollins' offensive system:

"The Nets are shooting 21 percent from 3 on 12.7 attempts per game, like we're all chilling in the mid-90s."

Here's Zach Lowe on Hollins' defensive system:

"Prob not a coach alive who could turn BKN into a good team on D, but inexplicable why Nets hedged on PNRs tonight like Dirk was screening."

And here's Lionel Hollins openly admitting he's not doing his job:

"I don't try to analyze everything. I see it and I know what it is. But what good does it do for me to stay up all night and analyze it and try to figure out how to make it different when we don't have Kevin Durant, we don't have Russell Westbrook (and) we don't have LeBron James?"

But at least he offered these inspiring leader:

"We are who we are," he continued, honestly, "and if we go out and play together as a team and work as a group and try to be disciplined in what we're doing, we give ourselves a chance. That's all you can do. If you're not good enough to win those games, because of the other team's talent, you've still done all you can do and you just go home and go to bed."

Re: If Brook Lopez were out for 2016-17, how many games do the Nets win?
« Reply #56 on: July 27, 2016, 12:25:46 AM »

Offline byennie

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Name one thing Thad Young is actually good at... Defense? Nah. Shooting? Nah. Rebounding? Nah. Dribbling? Nah.

He's pretty good at opportunistic scoring I guess, but this is his 4th team in 3 years, 3 of which were bottom 3 teams. But yeah, funny how that never got mentioned.

Jarrett Jack is awful, Vasquez is an upgrade over him if he's healthy again and regains his form. Let alone Lin, whose on/off in the playoffs was + 24 points per 100.

And RHJ was already an impact defender, which was a major weakness because neither Bogdanovic or Johnson guarded anybody. And considering Robinson is out of the league I highly doubt McCullogh can be any worse.

And you still haven't addressed getting rid of Lionel Hollins who was terrible.

Hyperbole much? Now Thaddeus Young isn't good at ANYTHING? He averaged 15 and 9 on 51% shooting but he's not a good scorer or rebounder?

NBA leaders @ PF:
3rd in steals (1.5)
5th in rebounds (9.0)
9th in scoring (15.0)

Is he an All-Star? No. But he's at LEAST an average starter league-wide at his position. That's an important asset on a 21 win team. Turning him into Booker is objectively a downgrade. The idea that Booker could theoretically play at a similar level is just a shot in the dark based on little evidence and some decent advanced metrics off the bench. But it's still a longshot that he can thrive as a starter all of a sudden.

Re: If Brook Lopez were out for 2016-17, how many games do the Nets win?
« Reply #57 on: July 27, 2016, 12:28:09 AM »

Offline BDeCosta26

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I would ask if you're serious, but after your similar projection last year I know that you aren't kidding.  After you were so wrong last year, what makes you think that the Nets, and not your accuracy, were the cause of the variance? 

To the OP, if Lopez went out I think the Nets would win 16 games.  With Lopez probably 21.

Just a hunch.  Depends how healthy the rest of the roster would remain.

Oh C'mon LB, after your 40 win prediction last season blew up in your face your really gonna go with 35 this year? Your whole case last year was based on the Lopez/Jack/Young core was good enough to win them some games. Now Jack has been replaced by Jeremy Lin, a decent back-up PG like Jack was, a little different kind of game, but a similar level player overall, and they replaced Thad Young, a guy you once said would be the 2nd or 3rd best player on a 48 win Celtic team, with Travis Booker. And that's not even touching the bench. Plus, your saying they win 35 games WITHOUT their by-far best player. So what, they're a 4th or 5th seed with him?

Sure, RHJ is fairly promising, but beyond that it's just atrocious. Even if they don't trade Lopez this year (which I think is a possibility), that team will be lucky to crack out of the bottom 5, and you know it. Unless the lottery completely screws us, I can't see us picking out of the top 5 in the draft this year. If Lopez gets hurt, forget about it. They're the clear cut worst team in the NBA at that point.

Re: If Brook Lopez were out for 2016-17, how many games do the Nets win?
« Reply #58 on: July 27, 2016, 01:19:17 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I would ask if you're serious, but after your similar projection last year I know that you aren't kidding.  After you were so wrong last year, what makes you think that the Nets, and not your accuracy, were the cause of the variance? 

To the OP, if Lopez went out I think the Nets would win 16 games.  With Lopez probably 21.

Just a hunch.  Depends how healthy the rest of the roster would remain.

Oh C'mon LB, after your 40 win prediction last season blew up in your face your really gonna go with 35 this year?
No.  Only if brook misses the entire season to injury. 

Re: If Brook Lopez were out for 2016-17, how many games do the Nets win?
« Reply #59 on: July 27, 2016, 01:23:17 AM »

Offline alldaboston

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I would ask if you're serious, but after your similar projection last year I know that you aren't kidding.  After you were so wrong last year, what makes you think that the Nets, and not your accuracy, were the cause of the variance? 

To the OP, if Lopez went out I think the Nets would win 16 games.  With Lopez probably 21.

Hey I don't mind him saying that. He thought they were gonna be good last year and they were 3rd worst. Maybe LarBrd does some kind of reverse jinx on them.
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about