Why are we paying Zeller $8 million?

[tarheelsxxiii]

Why would a FO, considering trading their superstar (not gonna happen) want Zeller, as salary filler at 8 mil, instead of Bradley at 6.5, IT / crowder at 6? Silly notion to me. Landing a superstar will require a BKN pick and players.

I think the idea is adding Zeller to one of those others you mention in order to match a superstar salary.   The players we are after make at least 10M more than the likes of Jae, AB and Thomas.  Paying Zeller allows us to keep the better big (Amir) out of those kind of deals.  Makes some sense.   

Yeah, I don't know... it's possible. Maybe there are some teams that covet Zeller. He struggled this year but was solid and efficient the year before. So flexibility, in that way, makes some sense to me. I just doubt he would be coveted by very many rebuilding teams.

For sure.  I doubt anyone is calling for Zeller.   But it's better to have him in a deal with, say, AB and a pick, than needing to add several lower $ prospects, or Amir for the sole purpose of matching salary.    The 1+1 just makes it palatable, and we get to keep better players in green should such a deal present itself.

Yeah, good point, TP.  To consider him not just as a respectable back-up, his contract may intrigue two types of teams -- those looking for a decent back-up C as part of a package, or salary dump. So I guess maybe he has more trade value than I assume, not sure.

[steve]

8 million a year?  For the love of, Jon Koncak.
 I thought it was 8 million for 2 years!
 I thought, okay, now we can trade him. 
But 8 million dollars a year?
16 million big ones!
16 million dollars!

11.8 minutes per game.  6.1 points per game  3 rebounds per game

In terms we can all understand.  That is 1.3 million dollars a point per game.  That is 2.6 million dollars a rebound per game.

Something is terribly wrong here.  Is this the alternate universe?

There must be a trade.
There must be a trade
repeat after me,
There must be a trade!

you can't quantify someones contact that way. if someone makes 20 mil a season and gets 1 steal a game, is that steal worth 20 mil?

[crimson_stallion]

8 million a year?  For the love of, Jon Koncak.
 I thought it was 8 million for 2 years!
 I thought, okay, now we can trade him. 
But 8 million dollars a year?
16 million big ones!
16 million dollars!

11.8 minutes per game.  6.1 points per game  3 rebounds per game

In terms we can all understand.  That is 1.3 million dollars a point per game.  That is 2.6 million dollars a rebound per game.

Something is terribly wrong here.  Is this the alternate universe?

There must be a trade.
There must be a trade
repeat after me,
There must be a trade!

As opposed to Timofey Mozgov making $16M a year and averaging 4.4 rebounds a game?

[trickybilly]

Still, I get the OP's point. Every sissy boxout, every boneheaded pass, every blown tip-in will reaaaally begin to grate with Wyc. I'd like to see Zeller get coached by Wyc personally at all timeouts. The team huddle around Brad, Zeller sits next to Wyc.

[walker834]

I don't think overpaying a guy for a year is a big deal. We have the contract as far as trades.  We have cap space.  It's better than dead cap space.

I never understood why people complained about David Lee's contract that much either.  I can understand thinking he isn't  a very good player though. His contract was just a contract we had on the books from the KG and Pierce deals and we were trying to work our way out of it.

Having Zeller and spending the money, we should be thanking the owners really that are willing to spend the money.

Having a ton of long term bloated salaries is different than paying a guy for a year and just having that contract.

[crimson_stallion]

Still, I get the OP's point. Every sissy boxout, every boneheaded pass, every blown tip-in will reaaaally begin to grate with Wyc. I'd like to see Zeller get coached by Wyc personally at all timeouts. The team huddle around Brad, Zeller sits next to Wyc.

He's really not that bad..

For his career Zeller has averaged 14 points and 9 rebounds Per 36 Minutes. 

He's shot:
* 50% from the field
* 78% from the line
* 63% inside three feet
* 41% from 10-16 feet
* 40% on long twos (> 16 feet)

He's had net rating of +3

Is he a future star in the making?  Of course not.  But he's a pretty young and very mobile 7 footer who can shoot the ball, can finish at the basket, and who can rebound at close to average levels for an NBA PF, and who is a good locker room guy with a team first attitude.

I know he's not the most exciting player int he world, but as a third string backup we could do a hell of a lot worse. 

Hell, if Zeller was playing for the 76ers (rather then buried on the Celtics bench) he'd probably be averaging 15 and 9 - and everyone would be begging for us to trade for him lol
 

[walker834]

We need an extra big man anyways with Zizic overseas. Overpaying a guy a long term contract who isn't the future and is going to command minutes  is stupid too.  Overpaying a guy who is going to play limited minutes and play his role as a 4th or 5th big man is fine.

I honestly think the celtics wanted that contract as far as making potential deals this year and wanted to keep Zizic and Yab overseas for a bit.

We could have brought them over but it would have limited what we can do as far as trades.  We are still trying to improve our talent level.

[walker834]

If you look at the math we can combine a guy like Avery or Crowder and Zeller and still get a max player as far as trades.  We have that option as far as trades and Zellers contract will just fall off again after this year.  He also isn't going to command minutes and will play his role as a 4th or 5th big man.

We could  have done the same with Sully, but he would have commanded minutes and created redundancy of sorts with Horford here.

Honestly it says a lot about Wyc and the front office that they don't care about spending money overly and are just going to make the best moves for the celtics regardless.

When Avery got his contract people didn't understand it for different reasons.  But it was the best move for the celtics at the time.  Same thing that way.

Zeller probably will never be good like Avery, but for a year to have that contract and fill a role it's fine. AB got a long term deal though.  Totally different situation.

A lot of fans just see 8 or 9 mil and don't think about it in context though.

[spikelovetheCelts]

If you look at the math we can combine a guy like Avery or Crowder and Zeller and still get a max player as far as trades.  We have that option as far as trades and Zellers contract will just fall off again after this year.  He also isn't going to command minutes and will play his role as a 4th or 5th big man.

We could  have done the same with Sully, but he would have commanded minutes and created redundancy of sorts with Horford here.

Honestly it says a lot about Wyc and the front office that they don't care about spending money overly and are just going to make the best moves for the celtics regardless.

When Avery got his contract people didn't understand it for different reasons.  But it was the best move for the celtics at the time.  Same thing that way.

Zeller probably will never be good like Avery, but for a year to have that contract and fill a role it's fine. AB got a long term deal though.  Totally different situation.

A lot of fans just see 8 or 9 mil and don't think about it in context though.

One year for a player who was a starter and is still young enough to improve. He is a trade chip who wants to be a Celtic. 8 mil is not a big overpay. Zeller knows his role does not complain and is always ready to play what more do we want in him.

[Moranis]

1. We've seen some ridiculous salaries given out this offseason. Maybe that's the going rate for the 2nd or 3rd string centers.

2. We also don't have anyone playing center other than Amir.  I'm presuming Olynyk will not be back until January. Also, presuming Horford doesn't want to play the 5. Mickey isn't on Brad's radar. Add to this, that there may be a dearth of quality big men out there.

When guys like Ezeli are signing for much less and even Sullinger only got 6 million for 1 year, signing Zeller to 8 million dollars is ridiculous.  I'm sorry it just is.

Why do you care? is it coming out of your pocket? If it's useful for trade purposes, why would you possibly object?

That is a roster spot, money, and cap room that Boston can't use on a player that might actually be useful.

How useful was Sullinger for this team in the playoffs?  How useful was Ezeli to GSW?

We are talking about the 8th-10th player in a rotation.  His uses are supposed to be limited, and I am fine with Zeller as is because he knows those limits and accepts them

Useful doesn't just mean for this year.  Zeller is taking a spot of a young guy that will now have to be cut. 

[mmmmm]

Talked about this over the weekend, but:

Because he's a) giving up his right to veto a trade, and b) if he gets traded he can now bring back more salary in return. Considering that a main reason to sign him is to trade him mid-year, and that many of the players we'd target make a lot of money, paying him more now is useful.

Yup.  Zeller plus Amir now brings back a max player. Since they are both centers, it makes sense for that max guy to be a center.  DA is lining up the ducks for a Cousins trade.

Yes, although I'd point out that Amir can be traded straight up for Cousins today, as far as salaries are concerned.

Yes I was thinking the same thing.  What Zeller now gives you is the ability to trade Zeller plus any contract at least 2.5M in order to match Cousins.

So, instead of having to bundle in one of Avery or Jae to make the dollars fit a deal where the primary 'value' going out is one of our young/future assets (like Smart or Brown) plus picks, you can include Zeller.

I.E., instead of having to do a package like:

Smart + picks + Jae/Avery/IT + junk salary

you could do

Smart + picks + Zeller

(where junk salary are the guys like Hunter, Young, Holland, etc.)

Just a little bit more flexibility.

It's Zeller plus $4 million (or technically $3,957,00) for Cousins.  So it'd take three prospects, one of which is Young, Smart and something, or Brown.

It's more like Zeller plus a rotation player will give the necessary salary for someone like Butler or Hayward, in my opinion.  So Amir+picks for Cousins, and Zeller+Ab/Crowder+picks for an upgrade at the wing.

Assuming we are talking about matching Cousin's 15.8M salary, we only need to get to 10.8M out-going, per

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q82

Non-Taxpaying Teams
Outgoing salary   Maximum incoming salary
$0 to $9.8 million   150% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,0004
$9.8 million to $19.6 million   The outgoing salary plus $5 million
$19.6 million and up   125% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,000

So, Zeller (8M) plus another 2.8M would be 10.8M of out-going salary, which would match up to 15.8M of in-coming.

[saltlover]

Talked about this over the weekend, but:

Because he's a) giving up his right to veto a trade, and b) if he gets traded he can now bring back more salary in return. Considering that a main reason to sign him is to trade him mid-year, and that many of the players we'd target make a lot of money, paying him more now is useful.

Yup.  Zeller plus Amir now brings back a max player. Since they are both centers, it makes sense for that max guy to be a center.  DA is lining up the ducks for a Cousins trade.

Yes, although I'd point out that Amir can be traded straight up for Cousins today, as far as salaries are concerned.

Yes I was thinking the same thing.  What Zeller now gives you is the ability to trade Zeller plus any contract at least 2.5M in order to match Cousins.

So, instead of having to bundle in one of Avery or Jae to make the dollars fit a deal where the primary 'value' going out is one of our young/future assets (like Smart or Brown) plus picks, you can include Zeller.

I.E., instead of having to do a package like:

Smart + picks + Jae/Avery/IT + junk salary

you could do

Smart + picks + Zeller

(where junk salary are the guys like Hunter, Young, Holland, etc.)

Just a little bit more flexibility.

It's Zeller plus $4 million (or technically $3,957,00) for Cousins.  So it'd take three prospects, one of which is Young, Smart and something, or Brown.

It's more like Zeller plus a rotation player will give the necessary salary for someone like Butler or Hayward, in my opinion.  So Amir+picks for Cousins, and Zeller+Ab/Crowder+picks for an upgrade at the wing.

Assuming we are talking about matching Cousin's 15.8M salary, we only need to get to 10.8M out-going, per

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q82

Non-Taxpaying Teams
Outgoing salary   Maximum incoming salary
$0 to $9.8 million   150% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,0004
$9.8 million to $19.6 million   The outgoing salary plus $5 million
$19.6 million and up   125% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,000

So, Zeller (8M) plus another 2.8M would be 10.8M of out-going salary, which would match up to 15.8M of in-coming.

Problem solved.  You're looking at Cousins' salary from last year.  This year he makes $16.957 mil.

[Cman]

1. We've seen some ridiculous salaries given out this offseason. Maybe that's the going rate for the 2nd or 3rd string centers.

2. We also don't have anyone playing center other than Amir.  I'm presuming Olynyk will not be back until January. Also, presuming Horford doesn't want to play the 5. Mickey isn't on Brad's radar. Add to this, that there may be a dearth of quality big men out there.

When guys like Ezeli are signing for much less and even Sullinger only got 6 million for 1 year, signing Zeller to 8 million dollars is ridiculous.  I'm sorry it just is.

Ezeli was a unique signing. $7-8M/year is the going rate for a backup center. The fact that it is a one year deal, with a team option for the second year, is the real key here.

[timpiker]

Trade?

[mmmmm]

Talked about this over the weekend, but:

Because he's a) giving up his right to veto a trade, and b) if he gets traded he can now bring back more salary in return. Considering that a main reason to sign him is to trade him mid-year, and that many of the players we'd target make a lot of money, paying him more now is useful.

Yup.  Zeller plus Amir now brings back a max player. Since they are both centers, it makes sense for that max guy to be a center.  DA is lining up the ducks for a Cousins trade.

Yes, although I'd point out that Amir can be traded straight up for Cousins today, as far as salaries are concerned.

Yes I was thinking the same thing.  What Zeller now gives you is the ability to trade Zeller plus any contract at least 2.5M in order to match Cousins.

So, instead of having to bundle in one of Avery or Jae to make the dollars fit a deal where the primary 'value' going out is one of our young/future assets (like Smart or Brown) plus picks, you can include Zeller.

I.E., instead of having to do a package like:

Smart + picks + Jae/Avery/IT + junk salary

you could do

Smart + picks + Zeller

(where junk salary are the guys like Hunter, Young, Holland, etc.)

Just a little bit more flexibility.

It's Zeller plus $4 million (or technically $3,957,00) for Cousins.  So it'd take three prospects, one of which is Young, Smart and something, or Brown.

It's more like Zeller plus a rotation player will give the necessary salary for someone like Butler or Hayward, in my opinion.  So Amir+picks for Cousins, and Zeller+Ab/Crowder+picks for an upgrade at the wing.

Assuming we are talking about matching Cousin's 15.8M salary, we only need to get to 10.8M out-going, per

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q82

Non-Taxpaying Teams
Outgoing salary   Maximum incoming salary
$0 to $9.8 million   150% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,0004
$9.8 million to $19.6 million   The outgoing salary plus $5 million
$19.6 million and up   125% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,000

So, Zeller (8M) plus another 2.8M would be 10.8M of out-going salary, which would match up to 15.8M of in-coming.

Problem solved.  You're looking at Cousins' salary from last year.  This year he makes $16.957 mil.

Yep.  Fool me for looking at the basketball-reference.com Salaries on the '2016-17' page!!!  (Come on guys, update it please?).

I should have looked at basketballinsiders.com in the first place.

So the needed match for 16.9M would be 11.3M, so Zeller plus a 3.3M contract would do it.

Of course, unless he's processed in a sign & trade right now, he can't be traded until mid-December, right?