Author Topic: Why are we paying Zeller $8 million?  (Read 11196 times)

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Re: Why are we paying Zeller $8 million?
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2016, 12:10:55 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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Talked about this over the weekend, but:


Because he's a) giving up his right to veto a trade, and b) if he gets traded he can now bring back more salary in return. Considering that a main reason to sign him is to trade him mid-year, and that many of the players we'd target make a lot of money, paying him more now is useful.
Yup.  Zeller plus Amir now brings back a max player. Since they are both centers, it makes sense for that max guy to be a center.  DA is lining up the ducks for a Cousins trade.

Re: Why are we paying Zeller $8 million?
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2016, 12:12:29 PM »

Offline heyvik

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Talked about this over the weekend, but:


Because he's a) giving up his right to veto a trade, and b) if he gets traded he can now bring back more salary in return. Considering that a main reason to sign him is to trade him mid-year, and that many of the players we'd target make a lot of money, paying him more now is useful.
Yup.  Zeller plus Amir now brings back a max player. Since they are both centers, it makes sense for that max guy to be a center.  DA is lining up the ducks for a Cousins trade.

I like your thinking....

Re: Why are we paying Zeller $8 million?
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2016, 12:14:03 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Talked about this over the weekend, but:


Because he's a) giving up his right to veto a trade, and b) if he gets traded he can now bring back more salary in return. Considering that a main reason to sign him is to trade him mid-year, and that many of the players we'd target make a lot of money, paying him more now is useful.
And just like the thread over the weekend, this response does not clearly indicate that Zeller may have been overplayed in part because he agreed to a second, voidable, year.

And just like over the weekend, I will respond again that it is because of that voidable year that he has given up his right to veto a trade.  They are synonymous, unless we find that Zeller has no guarantee date for year 2, instead of a late June/early July date as is typical.

Re: Why are we paying Zeller $8 million?
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2016, 12:14:17 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Getting sullinger back would have been better
For the on the court play sure.

But would Sullinger sign a deal that had a second non-guaranteed year on it? No way he does that. Additionally remember that these are still people and the coaches and Sullinger himself might have just wanted to move on.

Re: Why are we paying Zeller $8 million?
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2016, 12:16:22 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Talked about this over the weekend, but:


Because he's a) giving up his right to veto a trade, and b) if he gets traded he can now bring back more salary in return. Considering that a main reason to sign him is to trade him mid-year, and that many of the players we'd target make a lot of money, paying him more now is useful.
Yup.  Zeller plus Amir now brings back a max player. Since they are both centers, it makes sense for that max guy to be a center.  DA is lining up the ducks for a Cousins trade.

Yes, although I'd point out that Amir can be traded straight up for Cousins today, as far as salaries are concerned.

Re: Why are we paying Zeller $8 million?
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2016, 12:19:49 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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1. We've seen some ridiculous salaries given out this offseason. Maybe that's the going rate for the 2nd or 3rd string centers.

2. We also don't have anyone playing center other than Amir.  I'm presuming Olynyk will not be back until January. Also, presuming Horford doesn't want to play the 5. Mickey isn't on Brad's radar. Add to this, that there may be a dearth of quality big men out there.
When guys like Ezeli are signing for much less and even Sullinger only got 6 million for 1 year, signing Zeller to 8 million dollars is ridiculous.  I'm sorry it just is.

Ezeli signed for basically the same amount:

http://www.si.com/nba/2016/07/07/festus-ezeli-portland-trail-blazers-free-agent-contract-warriors

And as others have noted one year overpays are at worst harmless and and best advantageous as they add salary matching options to trades without the recipient team taking on any long-term commitment.

Re: Why are we paying Zeller $8 million?
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2016, 12:28:36 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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Bc he's only half as good as mozgov


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Re: Why are we paying Zeller $8 million?
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2016, 12:29:15 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Zeller and Green signings are both puzzling from a roster standpoint.  Signing them makes an already over flowing roster worse.

In terms of Zeller, I don't see why they would sign him just to be trade ballast.  They can't trade him soon enough that someone would need to be cut.  I think more likely, they intend to trade someone else, perhaps Olynyk or Amir or both.  This would fit the narrative of the now very stale rumors about Griffin or even Cousins.  I know both of these are very unlikely but it seems that something could be in the works where we send out more players than we get back, in particular bigs, after which we need Zeller on the Bench.

Re: Why are we paying Zeller $8 million?
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2016, 12:29:49 PM »

Offline Chris22

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Thanks, guys.
I now have a clearer picture.
Ainge is thinking two moves ahead.

Re: Why are we paying Zeller $8 million?
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2016, 12:54:36 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Zeller and Green signings are both puzzling from a roster standpoint.  Signing them makes an already over flowing roster worse.

In terms of Zeller, I don't see why they would sign him just to be trade ballast.  They can't trade him soon enough that someone would need to be cut.  I think more likely, they intend to trade someone else, perhaps Olynyk or Amir or both.  This would fit the narrative of the now very stale rumors about Griffin or even Cousins.  I know both of these are very unlikely but it seems that something could be in the works where we send out more players than we get back, in particular bigs, after which we need Zeller on the Bench.

It really just depends how much you think the roster is truly overflowing.

Excluding Green and Zeller, look at the last few players on the roster, in Young, Hunter, Mickey, Bentil, and Holland.  None of them have guaranteed contracts next season.  Young and Hunter both have options that need to be exercised by late October.  Mickey isn't guaranteed, Bentil isn't guaranteed, and Holland will be a free agent.  None of them have shown much of anything outside the D-league that creates any argument they should on the roster long-term.  Accordingly, you could look at all 5 as young guys on expiring contracts.  So if you think Gerald Green is better this year than James Young and RJ Hunter, then why not sign him to a one-year deal? If both of those guys completely outplay Green in camp, then you can still move on from Green.  If neither do, and neither show any improvement, then you can move on now, while still having a viable bench player.  If one does, then you can still keep him.  The same could be true of Mickey and Bentil vs. Zeller, although Zeller will not be released during camp.  But if neither are capable of giving you NBA minutes, it's good to have someone on the bench who can.

Based on what we've seen to date, it seems unlikely that more than two of Hunter, Young, Mickey, Bentil, and Holland should be seen as potential options for the 2017-2018 roster, much less this season.  You can't use 4-5 roster spots on D-league projects currently.  Injuries are too frequent, and you can only send two down to the D-league at a time.  It's time the wheat separates itself from the chaff.

Re: Why are we paying Zeller $8 million?
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2016, 01:21:05 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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I saw the deal as like AJ and JJ. Overpay to get a team option second year. DA loves that flexibility for trades or for cap space. I thought he was worth 5 to 6 million per on the market.

Re: Why are we paying Zeller $8 million?
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2016, 01:35:47 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Talked about this over the weekend, but:


Because he's a) giving up his right to veto a trade, and b) if he gets traded he can now bring back more salary in return. Considering that a main reason to sign him is to trade him mid-year, and that many of the players we'd target make a lot of money, paying him more now is useful.
c) he'll be off the books next year, and cap space is largely irrelevant once the season starts.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Why are we paying Zeller $8 million?
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2016, 01:38:44 PM »

Offline cornbread1981

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Larry sanders is asking twitter where he should go one of them is the celtics do you think DA has contacted him he might be trolling aswell

Re: Why are we paying Zeller $8 million?
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2016, 01:43:58 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Larry sanders is asking twitter where he should go one of them is the celtics do you think DA has contacted him he might be trolling aswell

Larry Sanders is a definite a Twitter troll and/or someone who wants a job and is trying to use Twitter to reach out to teams.  While I advocated for him over the summer, I think the ship has sailed for more than a non-guaranteed deal at this point.

Re: Why are we paying Zeller $8 million?
« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2016, 01:55:53 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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Zeller and Green signings are both puzzling from a roster standpoint.  Signing them makes an already over flowing roster worse.

In terms of Zeller, I don't see why they would sign him just to be trade ballast.  They can't trade him soon enough that someone would need to be cut.  I think more likely, they intend to trade someone else, perhaps Olynyk or Amir or both.  This would fit the narrative of the now very stale rumors about Griffin or even Cousins.  I know both of these are very unlikely but it seems that something could be in the works where we send out more players than we get back, in particular bigs, after which we need Zeller on the Bench.
Green can contribute on an NBA team. There isn't much to indicate that Hunter or Young would make it to Green's level soon enough for us to benefit if we extend their contracts.

We have a bunch of borderline guys who may not ever contribute meaningfully in the NBA and who haven't shown hints of potential high level NBA contributions. It is hard to justify keeping them around when you can just sign guys like that that easily if you have the roster spots.

Keep in mind that we still have a lot of draft picks down the road. They two might contend for roster spots. This is why Danny considered trading so many picks for Winslow. We won't have the roster spots to develop all those picks.