Author Topic: We missed the left turn at Albuquerque...  (Read 3178 times)

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Re: We missed the left turn at Albuquerque...
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2016, 09:48:34 PM »

Offline Cman

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Let's see, the Celtics have a likely top 5 pick in a loaded draft plus they have room for a max free agent plus they will probably win more than 50 games.

What a problem.   ;)

You forgot to add that the sky is not falling. The Red Sox are winning. The stock market is up and unemployment is down. It's basically a great time to be a Celtics fan. But, true to form, we like to be a bit negative at times :)
Celtics fan for life.

Re: We missed the left turn at Albuquerque...
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2016, 09:48:49 PM »

Offline __ramonezy__

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I think it's just an unusual (in a good way) position for a team to be in


No one else can continue to get better while having legit top picks. It's normally "to tank or not to tank"


I'm sure if we were only rebuilding the young guys would get much more burn, but i think we're on the right path.

We're consistently been getting better while adding top picks, so i get seriously confused when people question this team's direction


Also, i think we should definitely keep this coming year's nets pick. It's supposed to be a loaded draft. And if we used it to pry away a westbrook or a griffen and they walked after the season, then we would be banging our heads against a wall for 15 years after

But that's my point exactly, if the Nets pick is valuable due to how "loaded" the draft is, the higher it's trade value. Whoever we get will be a development prospect, but we just maxed a 30-year-old player. Trade the pick for someone that is proven and keep our forward momentum towards a championship... adding another young player to develop when we have to be stashing 1st round draft picks is a bit ridiculous in my opinion.
I say, yes to both, it is not an either/or proposition.  The C's are in a position to not only add another max player, but to also take advantage of great picks the next 2 years.

I hope this doesn't come as a surprise to the OP, but Danny Ainge has to think both short-term (next 2 years) and long-term.  I believe Wyc is coming around to the idea of building a sustainable championship contender, a team that will be in the mix every year for 5-10 years or maybe more.  Meantime, he cannot ignore the present because that pays the bills and keeps the fan base interested.  In short, I think Wyc himself has matured a bit as a managing partner since his "fireworks" comment.  Nothing is easy, nothing is simple.

We already have this...

Horford is 30
Crowder, IT, AB are between 25-27
Smart is 22

That is an 8-year gap between our core players. So we are sufficiently spaced out for a prolonged run, if this core matures and become contenders.

Re: We missed the left turn at Albuquerque...
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2016, 09:52:05 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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I think it's just an unusual (in a good way) position for a team to be in


No one else can continue to get better while having legit top picks. It's normally "to tank or not to tank"


I'm sure if we were only rebuilding the young guys would get much more burn, but i think we're on the right path.

We're consistently been getting better while adding top picks, so i get seriously confused when people question this team's direction


Also, i think we should definitely keep this coming year's nets pick. It's supposed to be a loaded draft. And if we used it to pry away a westbrook or a griffen and they walked after the season, then we would be banging our heads against a wall for 15 years after

But that's my point exactly, if the Nets pick is valuable due to how "loaded" the draft is, the higher it's trade value. Whoever we get will be a development prospect, but we just maxed a 30-year-old player. Trade the pick for someone that is proven and keep our forward momentum towards a championship... adding another young player to develop when we have to be stashing 1st round draft picks is a bit ridiculous in my opinion.
I say, yes to both, it is not an either/or proposition.  The C's are in a position to not only add another max player, but to also take advantage of great picks the next 2 years.

I hope this doesn't come as a surprise to the OP, but Danny Ainge has to think both short-term (next 2 years) and long-term.  I believe Wyc is coming around to the idea of building a sustainable championship contender, a team that will be in the mix every year for 5-10 years or maybe more.  Meantime, he cannot ignore the present because that pays the bills and keeps the fan base interested.  In short, I think Wyc himself has matured a bit as a managing partner since his "fireworks" comment.  Nothing is easy, nothing is simple.

We already have this...

Horford is 30
Crowder, IT, AB are between 25-27
Smart is 22

That is an 8-year gap between our core players. So we are sufficiently spaced out for a prolonged run, if this core matures and become contenders.
Current team even with Horford is not a championship contender, so no, we do not have this.

Re: We missed the left turn at Albuquerque...
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2016, 10:37:48 PM »

Offline loco_91

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I disagree. I think the source of confusion is that Ainge isn't all-in on a particular plan. He probably has multiple contingencies.

-Plan A is to get a superstar now to pair with Horford + IT. Contend this year.
-Plan B is to be a good playoff team this year while retaining cap space for next summer's loaded class. Hence why Turner is gone.
-Plan C is to be a good playoff team for the next few years while drafting high in the draft, to set up a championship run after the Warriors juggernaut runs out of steam.

It's obvious that Ainge wants plan A to work out, but he isn't all-in on it. He's setting this team up for success both now and in the future. It's a luxury that most other teams just don't have.

Re: We missed the left turn at Albuquerque...
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2016, 11:12:19 PM »

Offline flybono

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I think it's just an unusual (in a good way) position for a team to be in


No one else can continue to get better while having legit top picks. It's normally "to tank or not to tank"


I'm sure if we were only rebuilding the young guys would get much more burn, but i think we're on the right path.

We're consistently been getting better while adding top picks, so i get seriously confused when people question this team's direction


Also, i think we should definitely keep this coming year's nets pick. It's supposed to be a loaded draft. And if we used it to pry away a westbrook or a griffen and they walked after the season, then we would be banging our heads against a wall for 15 years after

But that's my point exactly, if the Nets pick in is valuable due to how "loaded" the draft is, the higher it's trade value. Whoever we get will be a development prospect, but we just maxed a 30-year-old player. Trade the pick for someone that is proven and keep our forward momentum towards a championship... adding another young player to develop when we have to be stashing 1st round draft picks is a bit ridiculous in my opinion.


Your not wrong. It's a catch 22.
We the fans have no idea who is available on the trade market. I would trade every pick for established vets with multiple contract years left but not if the player is in a final year.
Again, only Ainge knows who is available and at what cost.

If Cousins were available for both Nets picks he would already be a Celtic




Re: We missed the left turn at Albuquerque...
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2016, 11:19:23 PM »

Offline BlastFromThePast

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I think it's just an unusual (in a good way) position for a team to be in


No one else can continue to get better while having legit top picks. It's normally "to tank or not to tank"


I'm sure if we were only rebuilding the young guys would get much more burn, but i think we're on the right path.

We're consistently been getting better while adding top picks, so i get seriously confused when people question this team's direction


Also, i think we should definitely keep this coming year's nets pick. It's supposed to be a loaded draft. And if we used it to pry away a westbrook or a griffen and they walked after the season, then we would be banging our heads against a wall for 15 years after

But that's my point exactly, if the Nets pick in is valuable due to how "loaded" the draft is, the higher it's trade value. Whoever we get will be a development prospect, but we just maxed a 30-year-old player. Trade the pick for someone that is proven and keep our forward momentum towards a championship... adding another young player to develop when we have to be stashing 1st round draft picks is a bit ridiculous in my opinion.


Your not wrong. It's a catch 22.
We the fans have no idea who is available on the trade market. I would trade every pick for established vets with multiple contract years left but not if the player is in a final year.
Again, only Ainge knows who is available and at what cost.

If Cousins were available for both Nets picks he would already be a Celtic

It's not as simple as that.  The Kings have to put butts in the seats.  2 future draft picks alone won't do that.  If DA can acquire a player with star power to bring fans in along with the picks and some trade filler, then and only then will the Kings part with Cousins.  Hence the BG rumors.

Re: We missed the left turn at Albuquerque...
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2016, 12:24:38 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I strongly disagree. Ainge is doing a terrific job setting us up to leap to long term contention while also building a competitive roster.

I mean really we just won 48 games then picked up a top 3 pick and signed the second best FA to move teams an will likely win 50+ games next year and add an even more valuable pick and still have max cap space.
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Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: We missed the left turn at Albuquerque...
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2016, 12:26:29 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I think it's just an unusual (in a good way) position for a team to be in


No one else can continue to get better while having legit top picks. It's normally "to tank or not to tank"


I'm sure if we were only rebuilding the young guys would get much more burn, but i think we're on the right path.

We're consistently been getting better while adding top picks, so i get seriously confused when people question this team's direction


Also, i think we should definitely keep this coming year's nets pick. It's supposed to be a loaded draft. And if we used it to pry away a westbrook or a griffen and they walked after the season, then we would be banging our heads against a wall for 15 years after

But that's my point exactly, if the Nets pick in is valuable due to how "loaded" the draft is, the higher it's trade value. Whoever we get will be a development prospect, but we just maxed a 30-year-old player. Trade the pick for someone that is proven and keep our forward momentum towards a championship... adding another young player to develop when we have to be stashing 1st round draft picks is a bit ridiculous in my opinion.


Your not wrong. It's a catch 22.
We the fans have no idea who is available on the trade market. I would trade every pick for established vets with multiple contract years left but not if the player is in a final year.
Again, only Ainge knows who is available and at what cost.

If Cousins were available for both Nets picks he would already be a Celtic

It's not as simple as that.  The Kings have to put butts in the seats.  2 future draft picks alone won't do that.  If DA can acquire a player with star power to bring fans in along with the picks and some trade filler, then and only then will the Kings part with Cousins.  Hence the BG rumors.
Its not as simple as that either. Griffin and Westbrook are expirings. No chance they resign in Sacramento.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: We missed the left turn at Albuquerque...
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2016, 12:27:37 AM »

Offline GetLucky

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Before super teams with 5 year windows to contend, there were these things called dynasties that regularly infused top-tiers, young talent into teams with already-established good players. They brought along the top-tier talent slowly, teaching them how to win and letting them wait for and earn the right to assume a leadership role. These teams were perennial contenders and did not have to worry about "tanking" for 15-20 years at a time.

I think we are witnessing a dynasty being built, and I cannot be happier with what Danny Ainge is doing.

Re: We missed the left turn at Albuquerque...
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2016, 12:31:45 AM »

Offline Denis998

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And to think we were a lottery bound tanking team at the start of the 2014-2015 season. And now we are a perennial "middle of the pack" team. How time flies.

Re: We missed the left turn at Albuquerque...
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2016, 12:43:02 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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But these are my points exactly. We cannot have  a team full of projects. The Spurs invested in a single project and focused on contending with their core. Celtics have Smart, Brown,  Rozier, RJ,  Mickey and any future picks. it is impossible to develop them all and contend.


This is a valid point.  Ainge has put together a stable of young, mostly tradeable prospects and picks.

However, other teams have been happy to call Ainge's bluff and basically say, "Go ahead, use those picks."  They know that the Celts can't possibly develop all of these guys and maintain, let alone improve, their trade value.


So yes, the team has made some moves to upgrade the talent on the team this summer.  That is a very positive development.  I'm excited about the Horford era.

On top of that, I'm in no rush to see the team dump young assets to go all-in for this year.  There's a superteam in Oakland, and the team in Cleveland is no pushover, either.  Even if the Celts go all-in, they might still get swept before they even reach the Finals.

With that said, what we have right now is a team with a 30 year old max player as its main guy, and a 5'9'' 27 year old who will turn 28 this year and probably won't do much past age 30-31 as the secondary piece.  But at the same time, the team is relying on a handful of rookie contract guys plus a few marginal types to provide reliable production off the bench. 

The guy the team just selected with a top 3 pick might not play more than 10-15 minutes per game this year.  Meanwhile, veteran scorer the Celts have on the bench is ... Gerald Green.


In short, Ainge is still trying to walk the line between going all-in (and possibly falling short of contention) and going all-out for player development (with all of the necessary losing that goes with that).
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: We missed the left turn at Albuquerque...
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2016, 02:38:31 AM »

Offline Greyman

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Some good analysis on our moves from a few posters but as I was reading I could only keep thinking, you can only attract guys that are available and the advantage of having assets is lost if you over pay. My gut feeling is this team (as is) can make it to the second round of the playoffs but CBS has got so much out of them the last two seasons and now has more firepower and a more mature group overall, they could surprise again.

I don't think the team are entitled to 'contender' status but they are certainly further along the road and the vast majority of moves have been positive. The rebuild is going okay and though we all long to be contenders, I am okay with waiting until it can be done right.