Author Topic: Thinking out loud - does Gordon for Brown makes sense for both Boston + Orlando?  (Read 26319 times)

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Offline RockinRyA

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Crimson.   I think we can both agree that Aaron Gordon is a better player than Jaylen Brown right now.  We can leave it at that.

No, we cannot. 

Please do not assume you know what I am thinking - clearly you do not.  Nobody on this planet can say that Aaron Gordon is a better player then Jaylen Brown - they can only state their opinion that they BELIEVE this to be true. 

There is no right answer to that due to a complete lack of evidence.  When Brown's NBA rookie season is over, then we can make such claims.  Until then, we cannot.


If you want to start a separate thread/discussion about Jaylen Brown vs Andrew Wiggins, I'm supportive of it.  It would make for a fun conversation.   Wiggins was thought to have superstar potential.  He struggled out of the gate.  He wasn't very good in Summer league.  He wasn't very good in pre-season.  He wasn't very good in his first few games.  His first month was mediocre.  His second month he was a little bit better.  His third month, things started to click for him.   He's continued to show improvement. 

On the flip side, the consensus is that Jaylen Brown projects somewhere between high-quality rotation player and future starter.   Myself and most of Celtic nation has high hopes that he will develop into something more substantial.  Like Wiggins, he struggled in his first Summer League.  We have yet to see him in preseason.  We have yet to see him play an NBA game.  We don't know how he will look in month 1 or 2.   I'd be very very happy if he made a leap in his 3rd month.   Are you expecting it?   That would be pretty cool.   

I have no idea where you are getting your draft information from. 

Most of the mock drafts I looked at seemed to have Jaylen Brown pegged as a guy with huge upside and legitimate star potential. 

There have been many question marks about Brown's floor (and the risk of him being a bust), but if there is one thing I haven't heard much of it's question marks about his upside.  It seems to have been a pretty universal theme throughout the past 6 months that Jaylen Brown had one of the highest ceilings of any prospect in the draft. 

Most looked at him as a high risk / high upside prospect.   I have no clue where you get your "high quality rotation player / future starter" consensus from.  That's not in line with what most of the scouts were saying, and I would hazard a guess that you have probably pulled that out of your own imagination.

Well LarBrd himself said he didnt follow College basketball, but he believed some people who told him only 2 people have superstar potential in this draft. But this is not true, guys ike Chriss and Brown were thught to be high ceiling low floor and are very risky, but the potential is there. Kris Dunn is another who can be a star but risky due to injury concerns and age. Another reason why he might think Gordon is better than Brown as a prospect is because Brown is a Celtic and Gordon is not.

Offline LarBrd33

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Crimson.   I think we can both agree that Aaron Gordon is a better player than Jaylen Brown right now.  We can leave it at that.

No, we cannot. 

Please do not assume you know what I am thinking - clearly you do not.  Nobody on this planet can say that Aaron Gordon is a better player then Jaylen Brown - they can only state their opinion that they BELIEVE this to be true. 

There is no right answer to that due to a complete lack of evidence.  When Brown's NBA rookie season is over, then we can make such claims.  Until then, we cannot.


If you want to start a separate thread/discussion about Jaylen Brown vs Andrew Wiggins, I'm supportive of it.  It would make for a fun conversation.   Wiggins was thought to have superstar potential.  He struggled out of the gate.  He wasn't very good in Summer league.  He wasn't very good in pre-season.  He wasn't very good in his first few games.  His first month was mediocre.  His second month he was a little bit better.  His third month, things started to click for him.   He's continued to show improvement. 

On the flip side, the consensus is that Jaylen Brown projects somewhere between high-quality rotation player and future starter.   Myself and most of Celtic nation has high hopes that he will develop into something more substantial.  Like Wiggins, he struggled in his first Summer League.  We have yet to see him in preseason.  We have yet to see him play an NBA game.  We don't know how he will look in month 1 or 2.   I'd be very very happy if he made a leap in his 3rd month.   Are you expecting it?   That would be pretty cool.   

I have no idea where you are getting your draft information from. 

Most of the mock drafts I looked at seemed to have Jaylen Brown pegged as a guy with huge upside and legitimate star potential. 

There have been many question marks about Brown's floor (and the risk of him being a bust), but if there is one thing I haven't heard much of it's question marks about his upside.  It seems to have been a pretty universal theme throughout the past 6 months that Jaylen Brown had one of the highest ceilings of any prospect in the draft. 

Most looked at him as a high risk / high upside prospect.   I have no clue where you get your "high quality rotation player / future starter" consensus from.  That's not in line with what most of the scouts were saying, and I would hazard a guess that you have probably pulled that out of your own imagination.

Well LarBrd himself said he didnt follow College basketball, but he believed some people who told him only 2 people have superstar potential in this draft. But this is not true, guys ike Chriss and Brown were thught to be high ceiling low floor and are very risky, but the potential is there. Kris Dunn is another who can be a star but risky due to injury concerns and age. Another reason why he might think Gordon is better than Brown as a prospect is because Brown is a Celtic and Gordon is not.
If we ignore what either of these guys did in Summer league and College, ignore that Gordon has two years of NBA experience under his belt, ignore how either of these guys project long term, ignore their athleticism, size and explosiveness, I agree it's a little less cut and dry which one of these guys is better.

Then when you factor in contract and injury history, the concept that Gordon can't play small forward, I can see why someone would think Orlando might accept our offer of Jaylen Brown for Gordon.  Especially if we sweetened the offer by including other assets.

Offline LarBrd33

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Those stats are from Wiggins two years ago as a rookie ... in which he was clearly better than Aaron Gordon as a rookie... and has exactly jack squat to do with how Jaylen Brown played in Summer league this year compared to how Aaron Gordon played in Summer league last year... and whether or not Jaylen is anywhere near as good as Aaron Gordon heading into year 3. 

One could argue that Jaylen Brown was better as a 19 year old in Summer league than Gordon was as an 18 year old in Summer league.  But I fail to see how that proves Aaron Gordon as a 20 year old heading into his 3rd season is worse than Jaylen Brown as a 19 year old rookie.    Gordon is better right now.  Trading Gordon for Brown would make no sense for Orlando.   What we are seeing here is a bunch of histrionics from folks who are not addressing the key point of this thread.  Would trading Gordon for Brown make sense for Orlando?  No.

You're defining the argument to suit your needs.
I'm really not.  Most people here don't understand what this thread is about.  Not my fault.  Read it again.

Would Orlando trade Gordon for Brown?  Of course not.

I agree with your conclusion. I don't think they would do the deal. But I for one perfectly understand the premise of the thread and don't accept your argument as conclusive. So maybe stop condescending.
My apologies.  TP. 

I get very emotional when I make a valid point and instead of giving me evidence to the contrary, Huey, Dewey and Louie turn it into a tree biscuit duck wagoning.
I appreciate it, but I wasn't just speaking for myself.

I mean this constructively, but this really feels like an important admission if you can reflect on it. You aren't functioning emotionally when people don't acknowledge your correctness or make the counterargument you consider to be correct. It's too rigid if you want to function well in a public forum, or with people that aren't extremely close to your own personality.

You're a very smart, possibly brilliant guy. Don't make it a zero-sum game and look down on everyone else. You will be amazed how much more others appreciate you, and how much you end up appreciating them when you're a little more flexible. I don't think a lot of people around here understand you, but you also don't understand them.

FWIW, late night ramblings.
I'm too stupid to understand what you're trying to say, but I'll give you another TP.  Alls I know is, I see very little evidence to support the case that Orlando would move Gordon for an inferior player/prospect.   I don't see anyone really sharing any evidence.  I do see a lot of snarky jabs, hyperbole, assumptions and straw man arguments unrelated to this thread's premise.  That and the typical tag-team stuff that I grew bored of a long time ago.  And when I see that, I tend to filter out the noise and cut straight to the point.  I guess it's fair to say that something of substance might accidentally get stuck in my filter.  So my apologies if I missed someone actually sharing relevant information for why Jaylen Brown heading into his rookie season is a better player than Aaron Gordon heading into season 3. 

For what it's worth, I'm willing to agree that if we ignore their basketball abilities and perceived long-term potential, it's really a matter of personal preference. 

Also, TP to the OP for suggesting trading Jaylen for Aaron Gordon.  Though I don't think it's realistic, it wouldn't be a bad idea for Boston.

I actually think a more interesting debate would be Jaylen Brown vs Dante Exum.  I can see both sides of that one.  That one would be more complicated to settle.  I'm not sure which one of those guys will be better in the short or long term.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 06:35:58 AM by LarBrd33 »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I actually think a more interesting debate would be Jaylen Brown vs Dante Exum.  I can see both sides of that one.  That one would be more complicated to settle.  I'm not sure which one of those guys will be better in the short or long term.
Thats hard to tell because everyone outsided the utah organization knows so little about Exum. He was seen as a better prospect than Brown 2 years ago, but a large part of his intrigue was the mystery. I mean from what I remember he was even more of a ghost than Bender. He had a high ceiling in part because no one really knew what to expect. Since then, hes had a terrible season(to be expected) and missed one with an ACL injury. The only encouraging sign for Exum was 1 measley summer league game. I think at this point Brown's gotta be a better prospect. From a fit perspective it kinda makes sense for Utah cus they just got hill, they still have Burks and they will probably need a Hayward replacement. It doesnt really make sense for Utah because if Hayward-Favors-Gobert doesnt work Brown-Favors-Gobert certainly wont.

Now for Boston it sure as hell doesnt make sense. We are counting on Brown to at the least provide wing depth and we already will be facing a log jam at the gaurd position, where we desperately need shooting. I dont think Exum provides that.

Exum-Brown is nice to compare prospects but in terms of a trade it doesnt make sense.

I never like Aaron Gordon, but the idea that Brown, having played 0 NBA games is better than Gordon with 2 years in the bag seems a bit ridiculous. Not sure Id make the trade from a Cs perspective. I do believe Brown to be at the very least a similar level prospect at this point, but I certainly dont see Orlando doing it.

Browns not getting fliipped. Id be shocked if he were.
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Offline celticsclay

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Crimson.   I think we can both agree that Aaron Gordon is a better player than Jaylen Brown right now.  We can leave it at that.

No, we cannot. 

Please do not assume you know what I am thinking - clearly you do not.  Nobody on this planet can say that Aaron Gordon is a better player then Jaylen Brown - they can only state their opinion that they BELIEVE this to be true. 

There is no right answer to that due to a complete lack of evidence.  When Brown's NBA rookie season is over, then we can make such claims.  Until then, we cannot.


If you want to start a separate thread/discussion about Jaylen Brown vs Andrew Wiggins, I'm supportive of it.  It would make for a fun conversation.   Wiggins was thought to have superstar potential.  He struggled out of the gate.  He wasn't very good in Summer league.  He wasn't very good in pre-season.  He wasn't very good in his first few games.  His first month was mediocre.  His second month he was a little bit better.  His third month, things started to click for him.   He's continued to show improvement. 

On the flip side, the consensus is that Jaylen Brown projects somewhere between high-quality rotation player and future starter.   Myself and most of Celtic nation has high hopes that he will develop into something more substantial.  Like Wiggins, he struggled in his first Summer League.  We have yet to see him in preseason.  We have yet to see him play an NBA game.  We don't know how he will look in month 1 or 2.   I'd be very very happy if he made a leap in his 3rd month.   Are you expecting it?   That would be pretty cool.   

I have no idea where you are getting your draft information from. 

Most of the mock drafts I looked at seemed to have Jaylen Brown pegged as a guy with huge upside and legitimate star potential. 

There have been many question marks about Brown's floor (and the risk of him being a bust), but if there is one thing I haven't heard much of it's question marks about his upside.  It seems to have been a pretty universal theme throughout the past 6 months that Jaylen Brown had one of the highest ceilings of any prospect in the draft. 


Most looked at him as a high risk / high upside prospect.   I have no clue where you get your "high quality rotation player / future starter" consensus from.  That's not in line with what most of the scouts were saying, and I would hazard a guess that you have probably pulled that out of your own imagination.


Thank you for pointing this out, it is really well said. Brown has consistently been listed as a very risky draft pick because he has both incredible upside, but also a high chance of becoming a bust if he doesn't improve certain skills dramatically. There are plenty of players that you could say this about, for example Buddy Hield could definitely just end up a role player because of his one elite skill and being older. However, nobody has really said this about Brown except perhaps Ford's bizarre system that projected Porzingas as a bench player a year earlier.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 01:03:28 PM by celticsclay »

Offline ThePaintedArea

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...  So my apologies if I missed someone actually sharing relevant information for why Jaylen Brown heading into his rookie season is a better player than Aaron Gordon heading into season 3. 

Apology accepted.  ;) But, in any case, the more important consideration is Jaylen's long-term potential - surely you will concede that?

For what it's worth, I'm willing to agree that if we ignore their basketball abilities and perceived long-term potential, it's really a matter of personal preference. 

Okay, but at that point you're not talking about basketball anymore, are you?

Also, TP to the OP for suggesting trading Jaylen for Aaron Gordon.  Though I don't think it's realistic, it wouldn't be a bad idea for Boston.

It would be a good idea because they'd get a high-character guy who's maximizing his potential as a quality rotation player.  And, it would be a bad idea because they'd be missing the chance to get a long-term star.  There are no sure things – but keeping Jaylen looks like a good bet; the advantage of Gordon is that he's as certain as it gets - young, great body who can switch multiple positions, already carving a place for himself - and still upside. If the 3 turns out, he's a star - let's see what Frank Vogel wants.

I'm guessing that their hands were forced by Oladipo - but maybe they believe in the renaissance of Serge Ibaka.  I think their offseason has been mixed at best (but best of luck to former Celtic coach Frank Vogel).

I made my case for Jaylen already in this thread.  To summarize: he's the rare type of player who makes an offense cook, complements a point-guard type in his shot-creation (like, say, Isaiah Thomas).  He's relentless at attacking the basket - at improving his considerable physical gifts.  This guy is going to be really, really good.  He's in the right place at the right time.  He's a leader, coming to a culture where there's already tremendous leadership.  You Boston fans:

This thing is working.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 03:08:26 PM by ThePaintedArea »

Offline Eddie20

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He's widely expected to be their starting SF this season.


Here you go LB, like I said, he'll only play the position out of necessity. These are some key point from Lowe's article today


Quote
"If Serge Ibaka weren't here, Aaron Gordon would be my power forward," Vogel said. "But Serge is here. Aaron is going to be playing [small forward].

The notion of Gordon as primarily a wing is almost shocking, and a massive organizational risk. He can't shoot (yet), and he has very little NBA-level experience as a primary ball handler.

Gordon's limitations on offense didn't matter as much when he played power forward, with three perimeter guys around him.

There are people within the team who think that by midseason, it will be clear Orlando's best lineups feature Gordon at power forward and Ibaka at center -- sort of a problem given the $30 million per year invested in Vucevic and Biyombo.

Meanwhile, groups lumping Gordon alongside two traditional bigs and Elfrid Payton, perhaps an even worse shooter than Gordon, could barf up bricks as defenses strangle the lane.

Offline footey

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Those stats are from Wiggins two years ago as a rookie ... in which he was clearly better than Aaron Gordon as a rookie... and has exactly jack squat to do with how Jaylen Brown played in Summer league this year compared to how Aaron Gordon played in Summer league last year... and whether or not Jaylen is anywhere near as good as Aaron Gordon heading into year 3. 

One could argue that Jaylen Brown was better as a 19 year old in Summer league than Gordon was as an 18 year old in Summer league.  But I fail to see how that proves Aaron Gordon as a 20 year old heading into his 3rd season is worse than Jaylen Brown as a 19 year old rookie.    Gordon is better right now.  Trading Gordon for Brown would make no sense for Orlando.   What we are seeing here is a bunch of histrionics from folks who are not addressing the key point of this thread.  Would trading Gordon for Brown make sense for Orlando?  No.

You're defining the argument to suit your needs.
I'm really not.  Most people here don't understand what this thread is about.  Not my fault.  Read it again.

Would Orlando trade Gordon for Brown?  Of course not.

I agree with your conclusion. I don't think they would do the deal. But I for one perfectly understand the premise of the thread and don't accept your argument as conclusive. So maybe stop condescending.
My apologies.  TP. 

I get very emotional when I make a valid point and instead of giving me evidence to the contrary, Huey, Dewey and Louie turn it into a tree biscuit duck wagoning.

You took this same stance regarding Okafor trade value and have been proven wrong, to embarrassing proportions really. Let's see how your assessment of Brown plays out. Can't wait.
I appreciate it, but I wasn't just speaking for myself.

I mean this constructively, but this really feels like an important admission if you can reflect on it. You aren't functioning emotionally when people don't acknowledge your correctness or make the counterargument you consider to be correct. It's too rigid if you want to function well in a public forum, or with people that aren't extremely close to your own personality.

You're a very smart, possibly brilliant guy. Don't make it a zero-sum game and look down on everyone else. You will be amazed how much more others appreciate you, and how much you end up appreciating them when you're a little more flexible. I don't think a lot of people around here understand you, but you also don't understand them.

FWIW, late night ramblings.
I'm too stupid to understand what you're trying to say, but I'll give you another TP.  Alls I know is, I see very little evidence to support the case that Orlando would move Gordon for an inferior player/prospect.   I don't see anyone really sharing any evidence.  I do see a lot of snarky jabs, hyperbole, assumptions and straw man arguments unrelated to this thread's premise.  That and the typical tag-team stuff that I grew bored of a long time ago.  And when I see that, I tend to filter out the noise and cut straight to the point.  I guess it's fair to say that something of substance might accidentally get stuck in my filter.  So my apologies if I missed someone actually sharing relevant information for why Jaylen Brown heading into his rookie season is a better player than Aaron Gordon heading into season 3. 

For what it's worth, I'm willing to agree that if we ignore their basketball abilities and perceived long-term potential, it's really a matter of personal preference. 

Also, TP to the OP for suggesting trading Jaylen for Aaron Gordon.  Though I don't think it's realistic, it wouldn't be a bad idea for Boston.

I actually think a more interesting debate would be Jaylen Brown vs Dante Exum.  I can see both sides of that one.  That one would be more complicated to settle.  I'm not sure which one of those guys will be better in the short or long term.

Offline LarBrd33

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He's widely expected to be their starting SF this season.


Here you go LB, like I said, he'll only play the position out of necessity. These are some key point from Lowe's article today


Quote
"If Serge Ibaka weren't here, Aaron Gordon would be my power forward," Vogel said. "But Serge is here. Aaron is going to be playing [small forward].

The notion of Gordon as primarily a wing is almost shocking, and a massive organizational risk. He can't shoot (yet), and he has very little NBA-level experience as a primary ball handler.

Gordon's limitations on offense didn't matter as much when he played power forward, with three perimeter guys around him.

There are people within the team who think that by midseason, it will be clear Orlando's best lineups feature Gordon at power forward and Ibaka at center -- sort of a problem given the $30 million per year invested in Vucevic and Biyombo.

Meanwhile, groups lumping Gordon alongside two traditional bigs and Elfrid Payton, perhaps an even worse shooter than Gordon, could barf up bricks as defenses strangle the lane.
So Ed, is your theory that after determining that their best lineup involves Gordon starting at power forward, they'd decide to trade Gordon for a weaker player with less potential? 

At that point, wouldn't it make more sense to trade Vucevic for a Small forward?

Offline jambr380

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I tried to skim through most of the posts here, but am wondering why Orlando would at least consider a Gordon for Brown swap:

- Brown is fresh off of being the #3 pick with a solid (not amazing) summer league performance. He is athletically gifted and has shown at least a couple of NBA ready skills (driving and defense). He is also locked up for four years at a very affordable price. In short, there is not reason to believe that his break-out potential isn't still there.

- Gordon, while solid, hasn't exactly lit the world on fire. While it would be unfair to say he is a known commodity, it is reasonable to say that he doesn't exactly have elite potential. Orlando is pretty stacked at the PF/C positions and is now forced to play Gordon at a position where he might not excel. He also has only two years left on his affordable contract.

It was my assumption that both players were seen as very raw, but athletic (and intelligent) prospects. Gordon has been given the opportunity to show some of what he can offer, while Brown is still an unknown commodity. They were both seen about equally coming out of the draft (Gordon anywhere from 4-8 and Brown anywhere from 3-8 - please don't talk about Ford's tiers).

If Orlando is absolutely trying to compete now, then it would make sense to hang on to Gordon. He not only has two more years of experience, but has also shown decent potential. But, if Orlando is still okay playing the development game, then Brown probably makes more sense as he fills a position of need and provides the opportunity for even more potential (unknown top prospects almost always possess more potential than semi-known top prospects - unless said prospects are awesome right away).

tl;dr - Larbrd is correct that Gordon is probably a better player now - he has proven that. But that doesn't mean that he will be the better player or that Orlando might not prefer Brown and his potential at the 3 to Gordon.

Offline Eddie20

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He's widely expected to be their starting SF this season.


Here you go LB, like I said, he'll only play the position out of necessity. These are some key point from Lowe's article today


Quote
"If Serge Ibaka weren't here, Aaron Gordon would be my power forward," Vogel said. "But Serge is here. Aaron is going to be playing [small forward].

The notion of Gordon as primarily a wing is almost shocking, and a massive organizational risk. He can't shoot (yet), and he has very little NBA-level experience as a primary ball handler.

Gordon's limitations on offense didn't matter as much when he played power forward, with three perimeter guys around him.

There are people within the team who think that by midseason, it will be clear Orlando's best lineups feature Gordon at power forward and Ibaka at center -- sort of a problem given the $30 million per year invested in Vucevic and Biyombo.

Meanwhile, groups lumping Gordon alongside two traditional bigs and Elfrid Payton, perhaps an even worse shooter than Gordon, could barf up bricks as defenses strangle the lane.
So Ed, is your theory that after determining that their best lineup involves Gordon starting at power forward, they'd decide to trade Gordon for a weaker player with less potential? 

At that point, wouldn't it make more sense to trade Vucevic for a Small forward?

As usual, you're missing the point and changing the basis of the primary discussion we were having. To recap, you said that Gordon is a SF, something I disputed. In turn, I provided evidence that he was used the majority of the time as a PF during his first two seasons. Now you have Vogel saying that if it weren't for Ibaka on the team, Gordon would indeed be playing 4. Doesn't that indicate that the coach believes his best position is the 4?

As for Gordon vs Brown, I don't think Brown is the better player today, but that has more to do with experience (this being Gordon's 3rd year in the league) than it does talent. Just like I don't think Simmons is better than Crowder today, but recognize the higher ceiling. I do think Brown has the greater potential, though. He has shown an explosive first step, better footwork, good handle, more offensive aggression, a much more sound shooting stroke, and a knack for getting to the line. He's more of a natural scorer, while Gordon is more of a role player type that could end of having a Marion type of impact if he improves his perimeter shooting. However, much like Marion who despite his athleticism only attempted 2.5 FTA for his career, Gordon also doesn't get to the line much (1.3 and 2.5 FTA's in his first two years). However, unlike Marion who was actually a very good FT shooter (career 81%), Gordon is pretty bad, regressing to 66% last season.


Offline LarBrd33

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He's widely expected to be their starting SF this season.


Here you go LB, like I said, he'll only play the position out of necessity. These are some key point from Lowe's article today


Quote
"If Serge Ibaka weren't here, Aaron Gordon would be my power forward," Vogel said. "But Serge is here. Aaron is going to be playing [small forward].

The notion of Gordon as primarily a wing is almost shocking, and a massive organizational risk. He can't shoot (yet), and he has very little NBA-level experience as a primary ball handler.

Gordon's limitations on offense didn't matter as much when he played power forward, with three perimeter guys around him.

There are people within the team who think that by midseason, it will be clear Orlando's best lineups feature Gordon at power forward and Ibaka at center -- sort of a problem given the $30 million per year invested in Vucevic and Biyombo.

Meanwhile, groups lumping Gordon alongside two traditional bigs and Elfrid Payton, perhaps an even worse shooter than Gordon, could barf up bricks as defenses strangle the lane.
So Ed, is your theory that after determining that their best lineup involves Gordon starting at power forward, they'd decide to trade Gordon for a weaker player with less potential? 

At that point, wouldn't it make more sense to trade Vucevic for a Small forward?

As usual, you're missing the point and changing the basis of the primary discussion we were having. To recap, you said that Gordon is a SF, something I disputed.
He's expected to start at SF for them this season and as of three days ago he defined himself as a SF.  You can say he's been better at PF.   But he's their starting SF.   They clearly think highly of him.  You just linked to something that suggested their most effective lineup would involve him starting at PF.   Either way, how does this add evidence that they'd trade one of their foundation pieces (who by your own admission would be key to their best lineup), for a lesser player/prospect. 

The funny thing is, I keep sticking to the topic.  Would it "make sense" for Orlando to trade Gordon to Boston for Jaylen Brown.   I say no.   Instead of disputing that, people keep trying to turn this into a debate about something else.  That's the kind of thing people do when they realize they are on the losing side of the debate.   This thread is several pages long.  I think we can all agree at this point that Gordon is a better player than Brown, we can only guess which one has more potential but there's no reason to believe Gordon has come close to reaching his ceiling, and it makes no sense for Orlando to trade Gordon for Brown.

At least not now.  If mid-season Brown makes a dramatic leap and Gordon stagnates, yeah... I guess it would make sense for Orlando to make that trade.   But why would Boston do it at that point?  If Brown exceeds expectations this year, I imagine we'll keep him.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 05:05:52 PM by LarBrd33 »

Offline celticsclay

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Lardbrd gonna Lardbrd [
« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 06:10:47 PM by celticsclay »

Offline LarBrd33

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Offline celticsclay

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I updated to your newest persona, but both of these are good.