Author Topic: Thinking out loud - does Gordon for Brown makes sense for both Boston + Orlando?  (Read 26337 times)

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Offline celticsclay

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It's fine to say Gordon isn't a great shooter.  I'd agree with that.  He's not a great shooter.  But you're quoting Gordon's shooting percentages (48% from the field last season and 30% from three), at least point out that Jaylen Brown is coming into this league with a reputation as a terrible shooter.  (College: 43% from the field with 29% from three).  He just backed up that criticism by shooting 32% from the field and 22% from three against a competition level that Aaron Gordon straight-up dominated (Gordon had arguably the best Summer League of the past decade).    If you're expecting Brown to miraculously shoot better as an NBA rookie than he did in College or Summer League, fine... but all signs point to him being worse than Gordon right now.

Go ahead and share more stats about how poor a shooter Aaron Gordon is.  Alls I'm saying is, those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones... unless you're Jaylen Brown... in which case, throw all the stones you want, you ain't hitting anything.

Actually if you read scouting reports before draft Gordon was considered a bad shooter. Probably worsh than Brown especially factoring in free throw percentage.

And that has basically nothing to do with Aaron Gordon in year 3.  He made leaps between his rookie and sophomore season.  Perhaps Jaylen will to.    So telling me that Gordon was considered a bad shooter coming into the draft ... while Jaylen is also considered a bad shooter - doesn't really prove anything, right?

Anyways... Gordon was seen as a better prospect.   Look no further than the world-famous Chad Ford Draft tier article.

Scouts/experts had Gordon as a tier 2 prospect.  "Tier 2 is reserved for players who are projected as potential All-Stars by scouts.".   Gordon was in there above Marcus Smart, who Gordon was drafted ahead of and continues to be seen as a better prospect than two years later. 

Scouts/experts had Brown as a tier 3 prospect.  "This tier is typically reserved for players who are projected as NBA starters".   He also mentioned:  "Of this group, Bender and Brown were the only players to receive Tier 4 votes."

So Gordon was seen as a future star heading into the draft.  Some saw Brown as a projecting as a high-level rotation player.

2014 Draft tiers:  http://hawksquawk.net/community/topic/394690-chad-ford-ranking-draft-prospects-by-tiers-2014/

2016 Draft tiers:  http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=85249.0

Is what it is.

So now that we've gotten that out of the way and established that yes, Gordon was seen as a superior prospect, we can go back to comparing them right now.

Give me one piece of evidence that suggests any part of Jaylen Brown's game is superior to Aaron Gordon right now.  I don't see any.   From everything we've seen, Brown isn't as good as Gordon right now.  This is understandable, though considering Gordon is heading into his 3rd NBA season and Jaylen, having never played an NBA game, just got done struggling in Summer league. 

Naturally, I'll now be labelled a "hater" by some of the more ignorant menaces that fester on this forum.   Others will rabblerouse about how I'm a Orlando Magic fan and have Aaron Gordon posters on my wall.  But I assure you, I'm firmly on the Jaylen Brown bandwagon.  I've been supportive of the pick.   I trust Ainge.  Brown shows signs of being good some day.  I was encouraged by aspects of his summer league performance.  I am looking forward very much to watching him develop.   But again, I see no reason to believe any part of his game is better than Gordon right now.

Did you seriously just use Chad Ford's tiers? Why not use how many pokemon the guys caught? This is a guy that edits his draft orders after the fact to make himself look smarter, and we are supposed to take his tiers level as gospel? They were both rated very similarly coming out of high school my any site i could find (both within their class and overall) and you choose to come back with Chad Ford tiers.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
It's based on his conversations with scouts and front offices.  It's not his personal mock.  It's supposed to give you a sense of how significant the prospects are seen as they enter the draft.  Point is, Gordon was seen as a future star.  Opinions on Brown are split between those who think he's going to be a future starter and those who think he projects as a high quality rotation player.

We hope for the best, though.
Lets look at this again and realize it was torn into pieces 3 minutes into most of these guys careers. Maybe don't use this again as something with any value?

Tier 3:

Gary Harris
Doug McDermott
Nik Stauskas

Tier 4

Tyler Ennis

Rodney Hood
Zach LaVine
Jusuf Nurkic
Elfrid Payton
Adreian Payne
Kristaps Porzingis
James Young

Offline LarBrd33

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It's fine to say Gordon isn't a great shooter.  I'd agree with that.  He's not a great shooter.  But you're quoting Gordon's shooting percentages (48% from the field last season and 30% from three), at least point out that Jaylen Brown is coming into this league with a reputation as a terrible shooter.  (College: 43% from the field with 29% from three).  He just backed up that criticism by shooting 32% from the field and 22% from three against a competition level that Aaron Gordon straight-up dominated (Gordon had arguably the best Summer League of the past decade).    If you're expecting Brown to miraculously shoot better as an NBA rookie than he did in College or Summer League, fine... but all signs point to him being worse than Gordon right now.

Go ahead and share more stats about how poor a shooter Aaron Gordon is.  Alls I'm saying is, those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones... unless you're Jaylen Brown... in which case, throw all the stones you want, you ain't hitting anything.

Actually if you read scouting reports before draft Gordon was considered a bad shooter. Probably worsh than Brown especially factoring in free throw percentage.

And that has basically nothing to do with Aaron Gordon in year 3.  He made leaps between his rookie and sophomore season.  Perhaps Jaylen will to.    So telling me that Gordon was considered a bad shooter coming into the draft ... while Jaylen is also considered a bad shooter - doesn't really prove anything, right?

Anyways... Gordon was seen as a better prospect.   Look no further than the world-famous Chad Ford Draft tier article.

Scouts/experts had Gordon as a tier 2 prospect.  "Tier 2 is reserved for players who are projected as potential All-Stars by scouts.".   Gordon was in there above Marcus Smart, who Gordon was drafted ahead of and continues to be seen as a better prospect than two years later. 

Scouts/experts had Brown as a tier 3 prospect.  "This tier is typically reserved for players who are projected as NBA starters".   He also mentioned:  "Of this group, Bender and Brown were the only players to receive Tier 4 votes."

So Gordon was seen as a future star heading into the draft.  Some saw Brown as a projecting as a high-level rotation player.

2014 Draft tiers:  http://hawksquawk.net/community/topic/394690-chad-ford-ranking-draft-prospects-by-tiers-2014/

2016 Draft tiers:  http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=85249.0

Is what it is.

So now that we've gotten that out of the way and established that yes, Gordon was seen as a superior prospect, we can go back to comparing them right now.

Give me one piece of evidence that suggests any part of Jaylen Brown's game is superior to Aaron Gordon right now.  I don't see any.   From everything we've seen, Brown isn't as good as Gordon right now.  This is understandable, though considering Gordon is heading into his 3rd NBA season and Jaylen, having never played an NBA game, just got done struggling in Summer league. 

Naturally, I'll now be labelled a "hater" by some of the more ignorant menaces that fester on this forum.   Others will rabblerouse about how I'm a Orlando Magic fan and have Aaron Gordon posters on my wall.  But I assure you, I'm firmly on the Jaylen Brown bandwagon.  I've been supportive of the pick.   I trust Ainge.  Brown shows signs of being good some day.  I was encouraged by aspects of his summer league performance.  I am looking forward very much to watching him develop.   But again, I see no reason to believe any part of his game is better than Gordon right now.

Did you seriously just use Chad Ford's tiers? Why not use how many pokemon the guys caught? This is a guy that edits his draft orders after the fact to make himself look smarter, and we are supposed to take his tiers level as gospel? They were both rated very similarly coming out of high school my any site i could find (both within their class and overall) and you choose to come back with Chad Ford tiers.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
It's based on his conversations with scouts and front offices.  It's not his personal mock.  It's supposed to give you a sense of how significant the prospects are seen as they enter the draft.  Point is, Gordon was seen as a future star.  Opinions on Brown are split between those who think he's going to be a future starter and those who think he projects as a high quality rotation player.

We hope for the best, though.
Lets look at this again and realize it was torn into pieces 3 minutes into most of these guys careers. Maybe don't use this again as something with any value?

Tier 3:

Gary Harris
Doug McDermott
Nik Stauskas

Tier 4

Tyler Ennis

Rodney Hood
Zach LaVine
Jusuf Nurkic
Elfrid Payton
Adreian Payne
Kristaps Porzingis
James Young
Irrelevant.   Stop wasting my time, Clay.   Tell me something useful.

Gordon was seen as a higher level prospect than Jaylen is seen at right now.  It is what it is.   Showing me a bunch of irrelevant stuff about how guys have and haven't panned out has nothing to do with whether or not Jaylen is seen as a better prospect than Gordon was in 2014.

And as I said before, that really doesn't matter one way or the other.   The key question was, right now, is Jaylen better than Gordon is?  No.  The answer is no.

Long-term, maybe.  But there's no reason to believe Brown is better than Gordon right now.   

I stand by my statement that trading Gordon for Brown makes no sense for Orlando.   I've addressed the key question this thread has posed.  I'm ready to move on.  Are you?

Offline Eddie20

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Found this pretty interesting...

Quote
Gordon is still this unshaped mass of talent. He has played both forward positions and is capable of playing both, but he has not established himself perfectly as a player yet. Injuries have slowed him down — whether it was the foot injury his rookie year or the jaw injury last year. No one is quite sure what Gordon really is.

His 9.2 points per game and 6.5 rebounds per game were not eye popping in any way. His 13.9 points per 36 minutes are not incredibly impressive either. It is still difficult to figure out what Gordon is going to be able to provide.

What we do know is that he still struggles to shoot — 29.6 percent from beyond the arc last year — and that Gordon is still developing a lot of perimeter skills.

The way the Magic used him reflected that. He played 60 percent of his minutes according to Basketball-Reference at power forward — he played 66 percent of his minutes at power forward in 2015. It seemed Gordon was set to be a power forward.

But the Magic appear more set now to use him at small forward more. That is about the only place he can start with the frontcourt group of Serge Ibaka, Nikola Vucevic and Bismack Biyombo.

And it is hard to say whether he is most effective there.

Individually, Gordon posted a 20.3 PER at the power forward position and a 14.8 PER at the small forward position. His opponents had a 17.0 PER at power forward and 13.1 PER at small forward.

Offline celticsclay

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It's fine to say Gordon isn't a great shooter.  I'd agree with that.  He's not a great shooter.  But you're quoting Gordon's shooting percentages (48% from the field last season and 30% from three), at least point out that Jaylen Brown is coming into this league with a reputation as a terrible shooter.  (College: 43% from the field with 29% from three).  He just backed up that criticism by shooting 32% from the field and 22% from three against a competition level that Aaron Gordon straight-up dominated (Gordon had arguably the best Summer League of the past decade).    If you're expecting Brown to miraculously shoot better as an NBA rookie than he did in College or Summer League, fine... but all signs point to him being worse than Gordon right now.

Go ahead and share more stats about how poor a shooter Aaron Gordon is.  Alls I'm saying is, those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones... unless you're Jaylen Brown... in which case, throw all the stones you want, you ain't hitting anything.

Actually if you read scouting reports before draft Gordon was considered a bad shooter. Probably worsh than Brown especially factoring in free throw percentage.

And that has basically nothing to do with Aaron Gordon in year 3.  He made leaps between his rookie and sophomore season.  Perhaps Jaylen will to.    So telling me that Gordon was considered a bad shooter coming into the draft ... while Jaylen is also considered a bad shooter - doesn't really prove anything, right?

Anyways... Gordon was seen as a better prospect.   Look no further than the world-famous Chad Ford Draft tier article.

Scouts/experts had Gordon as a tier 2 prospect.  "Tier 2 is reserved for players who are projected as potential All-Stars by scouts.".   Gordon was in there above Marcus Smart, who Gordon was drafted ahead of and continues to be seen as a better prospect than two years later. 

Scouts/experts had Brown as a tier 3 prospect.  "This tier is typically reserved for players who are projected as NBA starters".   He also mentioned:  "Of this group, Bender and Brown were the only players to receive Tier 4 votes."

So Gordon was seen as a future star heading into the draft.  Some saw Brown as a projecting as a high-level rotation player.

2014 Draft tiers:  http://hawksquawk.net/community/topic/394690-chad-ford-ranking-draft-prospects-by-tiers-2014/

2016 Draft tiers:  http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=85249.0

Is what it is.

So now that we've gotten that out of the way and established that yes, Gordon was seen as a superior prospect, we can go back to comparing them right now.

Give me one piece of evidence that suggests any part of Jaylen Brown's game is superior to Aaron Gordon right now.  I don't see any.   From everything we've seen, Brown isn't as good as Gordon right now.  This is understandable, though considering Gordon is heading into his 3rd NBA season and Jaylen, having never played an NBA game, just got done struggling in Summer league. 

Naturally, I'll now be labelled a "hater" by some of the more ignorant menaces that fester on this forum.   Others will rabblerouse about how I'm a Orlando Magic fan and have Aaron Gordon posters on my wall.  But I assure you, I'm firmly on the Jaylen Brown bandwagon.  I've been supportive of the pick.   I trust Ainge.  Brown shows signs of being good some day.  I was encouraged by aspects of his summer league performance.  I am looking forward very much to watching him develop.   But again, I see no reason to believe any part of his game is better than Gordon right now.

Did you seriously just use Chad Ford's tiers? Why not use how many pokemon the guys caught? This is a guy that edits his draft orders after the fact to make himself look smarter, and we are supposed to take his tiers level as gospel? They were both rated very similarly coming out of high school my any site i could find (both within their class and overall) and you choose to come back with Chad Ford tiers.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
It's based on his conversations with scouts and front offices.  It's not his personal mock.  It's supposed to give you a sense of how significant the prospects are seen as they enter the draft.  Point is, Gordon was seen as a future star.  Opinions on Brown are split between those who think he's going to be a future starter and those who think he projects as a high quality rotation player.

We hope for the best, though.
Lets look at this again and realize it was torn into pieces 3 minutes into most of these guys careers. Maybe don't use this again as something with any value?

Tier 3:

Gary Harris
Doug McDermott
Nik Stauskas

Tier 4

Tyler Ennis

Rodney Hood
Zach LaVine
Jusuf Nurkic
Elfrid Payton
Adreian Payne
Kristaps Porzingis
James Young
Irrelevant.   Stop wasting my time, Clay.   Tell me something useful.

Gordon was seen as a higher level prospect than Jaylen is seen at right now.  It is what it is.   Showing me a bunch of irrelevant stuff about how guys have and haven't panned out has nothing to do with whether or not Jaylen is seen as a better prospect than Gordon was in 2014.

And as I said before, that really doesn't matter one way or the other.   The key question was, right now, is Jaylen better than Gordon is?  No.  The answer is no.

Long-term, maybe.  But there's no reason to believe Brown is better than Gordon right now.

How is that irrelevant there sparky?  You used this as your argument for their comparable value. I scrolled down and showed you how far off Ford's tier was from the exact same source you bothered to cut and paste from.

If you use something objective, like numeral rankings from rivals, or ESPN for them as high school seniors they both had the same exact ranking (both in their number rating, and within their class). I stopped looked beyond that , but have a feeling any reputable source would have given them a very similar rating as high school seniors. Stop misleading the board by pretending they were different level prospects cause that just isn't true. Both were projected as high lottery picks, both were seen as having the potential to grow into an all star. I have read some people saying Brown has superstar potential, but people may have said that about Gordon and I missed it. It is what it is, they are similar prospects. Sorry you can't spin it a different way...


Offline LarBrd33

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Found this pretty interesting...

Quote
Gordon is still this unshaped mass of talent. He has played both forward positions and is capable of playing both, but he has not established himself perfectly as a player yet. Injuries have slowed him down — whether it was the foot injury his rookie year or the jaw injury last year. No one is quite sure what Gordon really is.

His 9.2 points per game and 6.5 rebounds per game were not eye popping in any way. His 13.9 points per 36 minutes are not incredibly impressive either. It is still difficult to figure out what Gordon is going to be able to provide.

What we do know is that he still struggles to shoot — 29.6 percent from beyond the arc last year — and that Gordon is still developing a lot of perimeter skills.

The way the Magic used him reflected that. He played 60 percent of his minutes according to Basketball-Reference at power forward — he played 66 percent of his minutes at power forward in 2015. It seemed Gordon was set to be a power forward.

But the Magic appear more set now to use him at small forward more. That is about the only place he can start with the frontcourt group of Serge Ibaka, Nikola Vucevic and Bismack Biyombo.

And it is hard to say whether he is most effective there.

Individually, Gordon posted a 20.3 PER at the power forward position and a 14.8 PER at the small forward position. His opponents had a 17.0 PER at power forward and 13.1 PER at small forward.
I don't find it interesting in relation to this topic.   

Does Gordon for Brown make sense for both Boston and Orlando?

Nope.   It makes no sense for Orlando.  Reason:  Gordon is better than Brown and might be better than him long term.  Gordon was playing out of position last season, but they have cleared minutes for him to start at his desired SF.   So there's really no point whatsoever for Orlando to downgrade from Gordon to Brown.

But if we're just posting irrelevant things we find interesting, here's something I found interesting today:

Quote
In 1898, at an exhibition at Madison Square Garden, Nikola Tesla demonstrated a small unmanned boat that was radio controlled. In a bit of showmanship, Tesla entertained the audience to make it seem that the boat could apparently obey commands from the audience but it, was in fact, controlled by Tesla interpreting the verbal requests and sending appropriate frequencies to tuned circuits in the boat.

Offline LarBrd33

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It's fine to say Gordon isn't a great shooter.  I'd agree with that.  He's not a great shooter.  But you're quoting Gordon's shooting percentages (48% from the field last season and 30% from three), at least point out that Jaylen Brown is coming into this league with a reputation as a terrible shooter.  (College: 43% from the field with 29% from three).  He just backed up that criticism by shooting 32% from the field and 22% from three against a competition level that Aaron Gordon straight-up dominated (Gordon had arguably the best Summer League of the past decade).    If you're expecting Brown to miraculously shoot better as an NBA rookie than he did in College or Summer League, fine... but all signs point to him being worse than Gordon right now.

Go ahead and share more stats about how poor a shooter Aaron Gordon is.  Alls I'm saying is, those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones... unless you're Jaylen Brown... in which case, throw all the stones you want, you ain't hitting anything.

Actually if you read scouting reports before draft Gordon was considered a bad shooter. Probably worsh than Brown especially factoring in free throw percentage.

And that has basically nothing to do with Aaron Gordon in year 3.  He made leaps between his rookie and sophomore season.  Perhaps Jaylen will to.    So telling me that Gordon was considered a bad shooter coming into the draft ... while Jaylen is also considered a bad shooter - doesn't really prove anything, right?

Anyways... Gordon was seen as a better prospect.   Look no further than the world-famous Chad Ford Draft tier article.

Scouts/experts had Gordon as a tier 2 prospect.  "Tier 2 is reserved for players who are projected as potential All-Stars by scouts.".   Gordon was in there above Marcus Smart, who Gordon was drafted ahead of and continues to be seen as a better prospect than two years later. 

Scouts/experts had Brown as a tier 3 prospect.  "This tier is typically reserved for players who are projected as NBA starters".   He also mentioned:  "Of this group, Bender and Brown were the only players to receive Tier 4 votes."

So Gordon was seen as a future star heading into the draft.  Some saw Brown as a projecting as a high-level rotation player.

2014 Draft tiers:  http://hawksquawk.net/community/topic/394690-chad-ford-ranking-draft-prospects-by-tiers-2014/

2016 Draft tiers:  http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=85249.0

Is what it is.

So now that we've gotten that out of the way and established that yes, Gordon was seen as a superior prospect, we can go back to comparing them right now.

Give me one piece of evidence that suggests any part of Jaylen Brown's game is superior to Aaron Gordon right now.  I don't see any.   From everything we've seen, Brown isn't as good as Gordon right now.  This is understandable, though considering Gordon is heading into his 3rd NBA season and Jaylen, having never played an NBA game, just got done struggling in Summer league. 

Naturally, I'll now be labelled a "hater" by some of the more ignorant menaces that fester on this forum.   Others will rabblerouse about how I'm a Orlando Magic fan and have Aaron Gordon posters on my wall.  But I assure you, I'm firmly on the Jaylen Brown bandwagon.  I've been supportive of the pick.   I trust Ainge.  Brown shows signs of being good some day.  I was encouraged by aspects of his summer league performance.  I am looking forward very much to watching him develop.   But again, I see no reason to believe any part of his game is better than Gordon right now.

Did you seriously just use Chad Ford's tiers? Why not use how many pokemon the guys caught? This is a guy that edits his draft orders after the fact to make himself look smarter, and we are supposed to take his tiers level as gospel? They were both rated very similarly coming out of high school my any site i could find (both within their class and overall) and you choose to come back with Chad Ford tiers.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
It's based on his conversations with scouts and front offices.  It's not his personal mock.  It's supposed to give you a sense of how significant the prospects are seen as they enter the draft.  Point is, Gordon was seen as a future star.  Opinions on Brown are split between those who think he's going to be a future starter and those who think he projects as a high quality rotation player.

We hope for the best, though.
Lets look at this again and realize it was torn into pieces 3 minutes into most of these guys careers. Maybe don't use this again as something with any value?

Tier 3:

Gary Harris
Doug McDermott
Nik Stauskas

Tier 4

Tyler Ennis

Rodney Hood
Zach LaVine
Jusuf Nurkic
Elfrid Payton
Adreian Payne
Kristaps Porzingis
James Young
Irrelevant.   Stop wasting my time, Clay.   Tell me something useful.

Gordon was seen as a higher level prospect than Jaylen is seen at right now.  It is what it is.   Showing me a bunch of irrelevant stuff about how guys have and haven't panned out has nothing to do with whether or not Jaylen is seen as a better prospect than Gordon was in 2014.

And as I said before, that really doesn't matter one way or the other.   The key question was, right now, is Jaylen better than Gordon is?  No.  The answer is no.

Long-term, maybe.  But there's no reason to believe Brown is better than Gordon right now.

How is that irrelevant there sparky?  You used this as your argument for their comparable value. I scrolled down and showed you how far off Ford's tier was from the exact same source you bothered to cut and paste from.

If you use something objective, like numeral rankings from rivals, or ESPN for them as high school seniors they both had the same exact ranking (both in their number rating, and within their class). I stopped looked beyond that , but have a feeling any reputable source would have given them a very similar rating as high school seniors. Stop misleading the board by pretending they were different level prospects cause that just isn't true. Both were projected as high lottery picks, both were seen as having the potential to grow into an all star. I have read some people saying Brown has superstar potential, but people may have said that about Gordon and I missed it. It is what it is, they are similar prospects. Sorry you can't spin it a different way...

Cool.   I got my finger exercises for the day.  Time to let this ridiculous topic die.  Goodbye, pointless topic.

Wake me up when someone does an Ed Sheeran parody using the summation of this thread:  "ThIiiinkiIiing oOOout looud... No, Orlaaandoo would nooot trade Gooordon for Jaylen".

Offline Eddie20

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It's fine to say Gordon isn't a great shooter.  I'd agree with that.  He's not a great shooter.  But you're quoting Gordon's shooting percentages (48% from the field last season and 30% from three), at least point out that Jaylen Brown is coming into this league with a reputation as a terrible shooter.  (College: 43% from the field with 29% from three).  He just backed up that criticism by shooting 32% from the field and 22% from three against a competition level that Aaron Gordon straight-up dominated (Gordon had arguably the best Summer League of the past decade).    If you're expecting Brown to miraculously shoot better as an NBA rookie than he did in College or Summer League, fine... but all signs point to him being worse than Gordon right now.

Go ahead and share more stats about how poor a shooter Aaron Gordon is.  Alls I'm saying is, those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones... unless you're Jaylen Brown... in which case, throw all the stones you want, you ain't hitting anything.

Actually if you read scouting reports before draft Gordon was considered a bad shooter. Probably worsh than Brown especially factoring in free throw percentage.

And that has basically nothing to do with Aaron Gordon in year 3.  He made leaps between his rookie and sophomore season.  Perhaps Jaylen will to.    So telling me that Gordon was considered a bad shooter coming into the draft ... while Jaylen is also considered a bad shooter - doesn't really prove anything, right?

Anyways... Gordon was seen as a better prospect.   Look no further than the world-famous Chad Ford Draft tier article.

Scouts/experts had Gordon as a tier 2 prospect.  "Tier 2 is reserved for players who are projected as potential All-Stars by scouts.".   Gordon was in there above Marcus Smart, who Gordon was drafted ahead of and continues to be seen as a better prospect than two years later. 

Scouts/experts had Brown as a tier 3 prospect.  "This tier is typically reserved for players who are projected as NBA starters".   He also mentioned:  "Of this group, Bender and Brown were the only players to receive Tier 4 votes."

So Gordon was seen as a future star heading into the draft.  Some saw Brown as a projecting as a high-level rotation player.

2014 Draft tiers:  http://hawksquawk.net/community/topic/394690-chad-ford-ranking-draft-prospects-by-tiers-2014/

2016 Draft tiers:  http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=85249.0

Is what it is.

So now that we've gotten that out of the way and established that yes, Gordon was seen as a superior prospect, we can go back to comparing them right now.

Give me one piece of evidence that suggests any part of Jaylen Brown's game is superior to Aaron Gordon right now.  I don't see any.   From everything we've seen, Brown isn't as good as Gordon right now.  This is understandable, though considering Gordon is heading into his 3rd NBA season and Jaylen, having never played an NBA game, just got done struggling in Summer league. 

Naturally, I'll now be labelled a "hater" by some of the more ignorant menaces that fester on this forum.   Others will rabblerouse about how I'm a Orlando Magic fan and have Aaron Gordon posters on my wall.  But I assure you, I'm firmly on the Jaylen Brown bandwagon.  I've been supportive of the pick.   I trust Ainge.  Brown shows signs of being good some day.  I was encouraged by aspects of his summer league performance.  I am looking forward very much to watching him develop.   But again, I see no reason to believe any part of his game is better than Gordon right now.

Did you seriously just use Chad Ford's tiers? Why not use how many pokemon the guys caught? This is a guy that edits his draft orders after the fact to make himself look smarter, and we are supposed to take his tiers level as gospel? They were both rated very similarly coming out of high school my any site i could find (both within their class and overall) and you choose to come back with Chad Ford tiers.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
It's based on his conversations with scouts and front offices.  It's not his personal mock.  It's supposed to give you a sense of how significant the prospects are seen as they enter the draft.  Point is, Gordon was seen as a future star.  Opinions on Brown are split between those who think he's going to be a future starter and those who think he projects as a high quality rotation player.

We hope for the best, though.
Lets look at this again and realize it was torn into pieces 3 minutes into most of these guys careers. Maybe don't use this again as something with any value?

Tier 3:

Gary Harris
Doug McDermott
Nik Stauskas

Tier 4

Tyler Ennis

Rodney Hood
Zach LaVine
Jusuf Nurkic
Elfrid Payton
Adreian Payne
Kristaps Porzingis
James Young
Irrelevant.   Stop wasting my time, Clay.   Tell me something useful.

Gordon was seen as a higher level prospect than Jaylen is seen at right now.  It is what it is.   Showing me a bunch of irrelevant stuff about how guys have and haven't panned out has nothing to do with whether or not Jaylen is seen as a better prospect than Gordon was in 2014.

And as I said before, that really doesn't matter one way or the other.   The key question was, right now, is Jaylen better than Gordon is?  No.  The answer is no.

Long-term, maybe.  But there's no reason to believe Brown is better than Gordon right now.   

I stand by my statement that trading Gordon for Brown makes no sense for Orlando.   I've addressed the key question this thread has posed.  I'm ready to move on.  Are you?

You're changing your stance. The way you worded things "and maybe one day Jaylen Brown will even be as good as Aaron Gordon is right now" makes it sound as though Gordon is so much better than Brown that it's questionable if Brown even reaches Gordon's current level of mediocrity. This echoes your earlier comments when you said maybe in 5 years he can contribute. It's a constant theme with you. If Brown were on another team, especially the Sixers, you would be going nuts about his potential. You're really predictable.

Offline LarBrd33

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It's fine to say Gordon isn't a great shooter.  I'd agree with that.  He's not a great shooter.  But you're quoting Gordon's shooting percentages (48% from the field last season and 30% from three), at least point out that Jaylen Brown is coming into this league with a reputation as a terrible shooter.  (College: 43% from the field with 29% from three).  He just backed up that criticism by shooting 32% from the field and 22% from three against a competition level that Aaron Gordon straight-up dominated (Gordon had arguably the best Summer League of the past decade).    If you're expecting Brown to miraculously shoot better as an NBA rookie than he did in College or Summer League, fine... but all signs point to him being worse than Gordon right now.

Go ahead and share more stats about how poor a shooter Aaron Gordon is.  Alls I'm saying is, those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones... unless you're Jaylen Brown... in which case, throw all the stones you want, you ain't hitting anything.

Actually if you read scouting reports before draft Gordon was considered a bad shooter. Probably worsh than Brown especially factoring in free throw percentage.

And that has basically nothing to do with Aaron Gordon in year 3.  He made leaps between his rookie and sophomore season.  Perhaps Jaylen will to.    So telling me that Gordon was considered a bad shooter coming into the draft ... while Jaylen is also considered a bad shooter - doesn't really prove anything, right?

Anyways... Gordon was seen as a better prospect.   Look no further than the world-famous Chad Ford Draft tier article.

Scouts/experts had Gordon as a tier 2 prospect.  "Tier 2 is reserved for players who are projected as potential All-Stars by scouts.".   Gordon was in there above Marcus Smart, who Gordon was drafted ahead of and continues to be seen as a better prospect than two years later. 

Scouts/experts had Brown as a tier 3 prospect.  "This tier is typically reserved for players who are projected as NBA starters".   He also mentioned:  "Of this group, Bender and Brown were the only players to receive Tier 4 votes."

So Gordon was seen as a future star heading into the draft.  Some saw Brown as a projecting as a high-level rotation player.

2014 Draft tiers:  http://hawksquawk.net/community/topic/394690-chad-ford-ranking-draft-prospects-by-tiers-2014/

2016 Draft tiers:  http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=85249.0

Is what it is.

So now that we've gotten that out of the way and established that yes, Gordon was seen as a superior prospect, we can go back to comparing them right now.

Give me one piece of evidence that suggests any part of Jaylen Brown's game is superior to Aaron Gordon right now.  I don't see any.   From everything we've seen, Brown isn't as good as Gordon right now.  This is understandable, though considering Gordon is heading into his 3rd NBA season and Jaylen, having never played an NBA game, just got done struggling in Summer league. 

Naturally, I'll now be labelled a "hater" by some of the more ignorant menaces that fester on this forum.   Others will rabblerouse about how I'm a Orlando Magic fan and have Aaron Gordon posters on my wall.  But I assure you, I'm firmly on the Jaylen Brown bandwagon.  I've been supportive of the pick.   I trust Ainge.  Brown shows signs of being good some day.  I was encouraged by aspects of his summer league performance.  I am looking forward very much to watching him develop.   But again, I see no reason to believe any part of his game is better than Gordon right now.

Did you seriously just use Chad Ford's tiers? Why not use how many pokemon the guys caught? This is a guy that edits his draft orders after the fact to make himself look smarter, and we are supposed to take his tiers level as gospel? They were both rated very similarly coming out of high school my any site i could find (both within their class and overall) and you choose to come back with Chad Ford tiers.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
It's based on his conversations with scouts and front offices.  It's not his personal mock.  It's supposed to give you a sense of how significant the prospects are seen as they enter the draft.  Point is, Gordon was seen as a future star.  Opinions on Brown are split between those who think he's going to be a future starter and those who think he projects as a high quality rotation player.

We hope for the best, though.
Lets look at this again and realize it was torn into pieces 3 minutes into most of these guys careers. Maybe don't use this again as something with any value?

Tier 3:

Gary Harris
Doug McDermott
Nik Stauskas

Tier 4

Tyler Ennis

Rodney Hood
Zach LaVine
Jusuf Nurkic
Elfrid Payton
Adreian Payne
Kristaps Porzingis
James Young
Irrelevant.   Stop wasting my time, Clay.   Tell me something useful.

Gordon was seen as a higher level prospect than Jaylen is seen at right now.  It is what it is.   Showing me a bunch of irrelevant stuff about how guys have and haven't panned out has nothing to do with whether or not Jaylen is seen as a better prospect than Gordon was in 2014.

And as I said before, that really doesn't matter one way or the other.   The key question was, right now, is Jaylen better than Gordon is?  No.  The answer is no.

Long-term, maybe.  But there's no reason to believe Brown is better than Gordon right now.   

I stand by my statement that trading Gordon for Brown makes no sense for Orlando.   I've addressed the key question this thread has posed.  I'm ready to move on.  Are you?

YThe way you worded things "and maybe one day Jaylen Brown will even be as good as Aaron Gordon is right now" makes it sound as though Gordon is so much better than Brown that it's questionable if Brown even reaches Gordon's current level of mediocrity.
Now you're getting it.  Bingo.  But we have hope, right?  We have hope.

Offline Eddie20

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It's fine to say Gordon isn't a great shooter.  I'd agree with that.  He's not a great shooter.  But you're quoting Gordon's shooting percentages (48% from the field last season and 30% from three), at least point out that Jaylen Brown is coming into this league with a reputation as a terrible shooter.  (College: 43% from the field with 29% from three).  He just backed up that criticism by shooting 32% from the field and 22% from three against a competition level that Aaron Gordon straight-up dominated (Gordon had arguably the best Summer League of the past decade).    If you're expecting Brown to miraculously shoot better as an NBA rookie than he did in College or Summer League, fine... but all signs point to him being worse than Gordon right now.

Go ahead and share more stats about how poor a shooter Aaron Gordon is.  Alls I'm saying is, those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones... unless you're Jaylen Brown... in which case, throw all the stones you want, you ain't hitting anything.

Actually if you read scouting reports before draft Gordon was considered a bad shooter. Probably worsh than Brown especially factoring in free throw percentage.

And that has basically nothing to do with Aaron Gordon in year 3.  He made leaps between his rookie and sophomore season.  Perhaps Jaylen will to.    So telling me that Gordon was considered a bad shooter coming into the draft ... while Jaylen is also considered a bad shooter - doesn't really prove anything, right?

Anyways... Gordon was seen as a better prospect.   Look no further than the world-famous Chad Ford Draft tier article.

Scouts/experts had Gordon as a tier 2 prospect.  "Tier 2 is reserved for players who are projected as potential All-Stars by scouts.".   Gordon was in there above Marcus Smart, who Gordon was drafted ahead of and continues to be seen as a better prospect than two years later. 

Scouts/experts had Brown as a tier 3 prospect.  "This tier is typically reserved for players who are projected as NBA starters".   He also mentioned:  "Of this group, Bender and Brown were the only players to receive Tier 4 votes."

So Gordon was seen as a future star heading into the draft.  Some saw Brown as a projecting as a high-level rotation player.

2014 Draft tiers:  http://hawksquawk.net/community/topic/394690-chad-ford-ranking-draft-prospects-by-tiers-2014/

2016 Draft tiers:  http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=85249.0

Is what it is.

So now that we've gotten that out of the way and established that yes, Gordon was seen as a superior prospect, we can go back to comparing them right now.

Give me one piece of evidence that suggests any part of Jaylen Brown's game is superior to Aaron Gordon right now.  I don't see any.   From everything we've seen, Brown isn't as good as Gordon right now.  This is understandable, though considering Gordon is heading into his 3rd NBA season and Jaylen, having never played an NBA game, just got done struggling in Summer league. 

Naturally, I'll now be labelled a "hater" by some of the more ignorant menaces that fester on this forum.   Others will rabblerouse about how I'm a Orlando Magic fan and have Aaron Gordon posters on my wall.  But I assure you, I'm firmly on the Jaylen Brown bandwagon.  I've been supportive of the pick.   I trust Ainge.  Brown shows signs of being good some day.  I was encouraged by aspects of his summer league performance.  I am looking forward very much to watching him develop.   But again, I see no reason to believe any part of his game is better than Gordon right now.

Did you seriously just use Chad Ford's tiers? Why not use how many pokemon the guys caught? This is a guy that edits his draft orders after the fact to make himself look smarter, and we are supposed to take his tiers level as gospel? They were both rated very similarly coming out of high school my any site i could find (both within their class and overall) and you choose to come back with Chad Ford tiers.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
It's based on his conversations with scouts and front offices.  It's not his personal mock.  It's supposed to give you a sense of how significant the prospects are seen as they enter the draft.  Point is, Gordon was seen as a future star.  Opinions on Brown are split between those who think he's going to be a future starter and those who think he projects as a high quality rotation player.

We hope for the best, though.
Lets look at this again and realize it was torn into pieces 3 minutes into most of these guys careers. Maybe don't use this again as something with any value?

Tier 3:

Gary Harris
Doug McDermott
Nik Stauskas

Tier 4

Tyler Ennis

Rodney Hood
Zach LaVine
Jusuf Nurkic
Elfrid Payton
Adreian Payne
Kristaps Porzingis
James Young
Irrelevant.   Stop wasting my time, Clay.   Tell me something useful.

Gordon was seen as a higher level prospect than Jaylen is seen at right now.  It is what it is.   Showing me a bunch of irrelevant stuff about how guys have and haven't panned out has nothing to do with whether or not Jaylen is seen as a better prospect than Gordon was in 2014.

And as I said before, that really doesn't matter one way or the other.   The key question was, right now, is Jaylen better than Gordon is?  No.  The answer is no.

Long-term, maybe.  But there's no reason to believe Brown is better than Gordon right now.   

I stand by my statement that trading Gordon for Brown makes no sense for Orlando.   I've addressed the key question this thread has posed.  I'm ready to move on.  Are you?

YThe way you worded things "and maybe one day Jaylen Brown will even be as good as Aaron Gordon is right now" makes it sound as though Gordon is so much better than Brown that it's questionable if Brown even reaches Gordon's current level of mediocrity.
Now you're getting it.  Bingo.  But we have hope, right?  We have hope.

Just curious, why do you constantly edit what a poster writes? You do that to a lot of people. You write a lot of long drawn out posts, posts that I often skip through, but I always quote you entirely.

Offline LarBrd33

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It's fine to say Gordon isn't a great shooter.  I'd agree with that.  He's not a great shooter.  But you're quoting Gordon's shooting percentages (48% from the field last season and 30% from three), at least point out that Jaylen Brown is coming into this league with a reputation as a terrible shooter.  (College: 43% from the field with 29% from three).  He just backed up that criticism by shooting 32% from the field and 22% from three against a competition level that Aaron Gordon straight-up dominated (Gordon had arguably the best Summer League of the past decade).    If you're expecting Brown to miraculously shoot better as an NBA rookie than he did in College or Summer League, fine... but all signs point to him being worse than Gordon right now.

Go ahead and share more stats about how poor a shooter Aaron Gordon is.  Alls I'm saying is, those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones... unless you're Jaylen Brown... in which case, throw all the stones you want, you ain't hitting anything.

Actually if you read scouting reports before draft Gordon was considered a bad shooter. Probably worsh than Brown especially factoring in free throw percentage.

And that has basically nothing to do with Aaron Gordon in year 3.  He made leaps between his rookie and sophomore season.  Perhaps Jaylen will to.    So telling me that Gordon was considered a bad shooter coming into the draft ... while Jaylen is also considered a bad shooter - doesn't really prove anything, right?

Anyways... Gordon was seen as a better prospect.   Look no further than the world-famous Chad Ford Draft tier article.

Scouts/experts had Gordon as a tier 2 prospect.  "Tier 2 is reserved for players who are projected as potential All-Stars by scouts.".   Gordon was in there above Marcus Smart, who Gordon was drafted ahead of and continues to be seen as a better prospect than two years later. 

Scouts/experts had Brown as a tier 3 prospect.  "This tier is typically reserved for players who are projected as NBA starters".   He also mentioned:  "Of this group, Bender and Brown were the only players to receive Tier 4 votes."

So Gordon was seen as a future star heading into the draft.  Some saw Brown as a projecting as a high-level rotation player.

2014 Draft tiers:  http://hawksquawk.net/community/topic/394690-chad-ford-ranking-draft-prospects-by-tiers-2014/

2016 Draft tiers:  http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=85249.0

Is what it is.

So now that we've gotten that out of the way and established that yes, Gordon was seen as a superior prospect, we can go back to comparing them right now.

Give me one piece of evidence that suggests any part of Jaylen Brown's game is superior to Aaron Gordon right now.  I don't see any.   From everything we've seen, Brown isn't as good as Gordon right now.  This is understandable, though considering Gordon is heading into his 3rd NBA season and Jaylen, having never played an NBA game, just got done struggling in Summer league. 

Naturally, I'll now be labelled a "hater" by some of the more ignorant menaces that fester on this forum.   Others will rabblerouse about how I'm a Orlando Magic fan and have Aaron Gordon posters on my wall.  But I assure you, I'm firmly on the Jaylen Brown bandwagon.  I've been supportive of the pick.   I trust Ainge.  Brown shows signs of being good some day.  I was encouraged by aspects of his summer league performance.  I am looking forward very much to watching him develop.   But again, I see no reason to believe any part of his game is better than Gordon right now.

Did you seriously just use Chad Ford's tiers? Why not use how many pokemon the guys caught? This is a guy that edits his draft orders after the fact to make himself look smarter, and we are supposed to take his tiers level as gospel? They were both rated very similarly coming out of high school my any site i could find (both within their class and overall) and you choose to come back with Chad Ford tiers.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
It's based on his conversations with scouts and front offices.  It's not his personal mock.  It's supposed to give you a sense of how significant the prospects are seen as they enter the draft.  Point is, Gordon was seen as a future star.  Opinions on Brown are split between those who think he's going to be a future starter and those who think he projects as a high quality rotation player.

We hope for the best, though.
Lets look at this again and realize it was torn into pieces 3 minutes into most of these guys careers. Maybe don't use this again as something with any value?

Tier 3:

Gary Harris
Doug McDermott
Nik Stauskas

Tier 4

Tyler Ennis

Rodney Hood
Zach LaVine
Jusuf Nurkic
Elfrid Payton
Adreian Payne
Kristaps Porzingis
James Young
Irrelevant.   Stop wasting my time, Clay.   Tell me something useful.

Gordon was seen as a higher level prospect than Jaylen is seen at right now.  It is what it is.   Showing me a bunch of irrelevant stuff about how guys have and haven't panned out has nothing to do with whether or not Jaylen is seen as a better prospect than Gordon was in 2014.

And as I said before, that really doesn't matter one way or the other.   The key question was, right now, is Jaylen better than Gordon is?  No.  The answer is no.

Long-term, maybe.  But there's no reason to believe Brown is better than Gordon right now.   

I stand by my statement that trading Gordon for Brown makes no sense for Orlando.   I've addressed the key question this thread has posed.  I'm ready to move on.  Are you?

YThe way you worded things "and maybe one day Jaylen Brown will even be as good as Aaron Gordon is right now" makes it sound as though Gordon is so much better than Brown that it's questionable if Brown even reaches Gordon's current level of mediocrity.
Now you're getting it.  Bingo.  But we have hope, right?  We have hope.

Just curious, why do you constantly edit what a poster writes?
I usually respond to something I see in the first couple sentences, so that's the part I quote.  I see some people respond without quoting at all.   I find it's a happy medium between giving context and keeping the quote chains shorter.

Offline jpotter33

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It's fine to say Gordon isn't a great shooter.  I'd agree with that.  He's not a great shooter.  But you're quoting Gordon's shooting percentages (48% from the field last season and 30% from three), at least point out that Jaylen Brown is coming into this league with a reputation as a terrible shooter.  (College: 43% from the field with 29% from three).  He just backed up that criticism by shooting 32% from the field and 22% from three against a competition level that Aaron Gordon straight-up dominated (Gordon had arguably the best Summer League of the past decade).    If you're expecting Brown to miraculously shoot better as an NBA rookie than he did in College or Summer League, fine... but all signs point to him being worse than Gordon right now.

Go ahead and share more stats about how poor a shooter Aaron Gordon is.  Alls I'm saying is, those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones... unless you're Jaylen Brown... in which case, throw all the stones you want, you ain't hitting anything.

Actually if you read scouting reports before draft Gordon was considered a bad shooter. Probably worsh than Brown especially factoring in free throw percentage.

And that has basically nothing to do with Aaron Gordon in year 3.  He made leaps between his rookie and sophomore season.  Perhaps Jaylen will to.    So telling me that Gordon was considered a bad shooter coming into the draft ... while Jaylen is also considered a bad shooter - doesn't really prove anything, right?

Anyways... Gordon was seen as a better prospect.   Look no further than the world-famous Chad Ford Draft tier article.

Scouts/experts had Gordon as a tier 2 prospect.  "Tier 2 is reserved for players who are projected as potential All-Stars by scouts.".   Gordon was in there above Marcus Smart, who Gordon was drafted ahead of and continues to be seen as a better prospect than two years later. 

Scouts/experts had Brown as a tier 3 prospect.  "This tier is typically reserved for players who are projected as NBA starters".   He also mentioned:  "Of this group, Bender and Brown were the only players to receive Tier 4 votes."

So Gordon was seen as a future star heading into the draft.  Some saw Brown as a projecting as a high-level rotation player.

2014 Draft tiers:  http://hawksquawk.net/community/topic/394690-chad-ford-ranking-draft-prospects-by-tiers-2014/

2016 Draft tiers:  http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=85249.0

Is what it is.

So now that we've gotten that out of the way and established that yes, Gordon was seen as a superior prospect, we can go back to comparing them right now.

Give me one piece of evidence that suggests any part of Jaylen Brown's game is superior to Aaron Gordon right now.  I don't see any.   From everything we've seen, Brown isn't as good as Gordon right now.  This is understandable, though considering Gordon is heading into his 3rd NBA season and Jaylen, having never played an NBA game, just got done struggling in Summer league. 

Naturally, I'll now be labelled a "hater" by some of the more ignorant menaces that fester on this forum.   Others will rabblerouse about how I'm a Orlando Magic fan and have Aaron Gordon posters on my wall.  But I assure you, I'm firmly on the Jaylen Brown bandwagon.  I've been supportive of the pick.   I trust Ainge.  Brown shows signs of being good some day.  I was encouraged by aspects of his summer league performance.  I am looking forward very much to watching him develop.   But again, I see no reason to believe any part of his game is better than Gordon right now.

Did you seriously just use Chad Ford's tiers? Why not use how many pokemon the guys caught? This is a guy that edits his draft orders after the fact to make himself look smarter, and we are supposed to take his tiers level as gospel? They were both rated very similarly coming out of high school my any site i could find (both within their class and overall) and you choose to come back with Chad Ford tiers.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
It's based on his conversations with scouts and front offices.  It's not his personal mock.  It's supposed to give you a sense of how significant the prospects are seen as they enter the draft.  Point is, Gordon was seen as a future star.  Opinions on Brown are split between those who think he's going to be a future starter and those who think he projects as a high quality rotation player.

We hope for the best, though.
Lets look at this again and realize it was torn into pieces 3 minutes into most of these guys careers. Maybe don't use this again as something with any value?

Tier 3:

Gary Harris
Doug McDermott
Nik Stauskas

Tier 4

Tyler Ennis

Rodney Hood
Zach LaVine
Jusuf Nurkic
Elfrid Payton
Adreian Payne
Kristaps Porzingis
James Young
Irrelevant.   Stop wasting my time, Clay.   Tell me something useful.

Gordon was seen as a higher level prospect than Jaylen is seen at right now.  It is what it is.   Showing me a bunch of irrelevant stuff about how guys have and haven't panned out has nothing to do with whether or not Jaylen is seen as a better prospect than Gordon was in 2014.

And as I said before, that really doesn't matter one way or the other.   The key question was, right now, is Jaylen better than Gordon is?  No.  The answer is no.

Long-term, maybe.  But there's no reason to believe Brown is better than Gordon right now.

How is that irrelevant there sparky?  You used this as your argument for their comparable value. I scrolled down and showed you how far off Ford's tier was from the exact same source you bothered to cut and paste from.

If you use something objective, like numeral rankings from rivals, or ESPN for them as high school seniors they both had the same exact ranking (both in their number rating, and within their class). I stopped looked beyond that , but have a feeling any reputable source would have given them a very similar rating as high school seniors. Stop misleading the board by pretending they were different level prospects cause that just isn't true. Both were projected as high lottery picks, both were seen as having the potential to grow into an all star. I have read some people saying Brown has superstar potential, but people may have said that about Gordon and I missed it. It is what it is, they are similar prospects. Sorry you can't spin it a different way...

Easy. That's LarBrd33 logic 101- if it doesn't fit his narrative, then it's necessarily wrong, irrelevant, or subject to interpretation. That's been his MO here for years.

Offline Tr1boy

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Can we go back to talking about basketball

What is this?

Offline Tr1boy

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While we trade for Gordon. Lets also grab Sabonis

Horford
Sabonis
Gordon
Brown
Smart

6th man
IT


Offline celticsclay

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It's fine to say Gordon isn't a great shooter.  I'd agree with that.  He's not a great shooter.  But you're quoting Gordon's shooting percentages (48% from the field last season and 30% from three), at least point out that Jaylen Brown is coming into this league with a reputation as a terrible shooter.  (College: 43% from the field with 29% from three).  He just backed up that criticism by shooting 32% from the field and 22% from three against a competition level that Aaron Gordon straight-up dominated (Gordon had arguably the best Summer League of the past decade).    If you're expecting Brown to miraculously shoot better as an NBA rookie than he did in College or Summer League, fine... but all signs point to him being worse than Gordon right now.

Go ahead and share more stats about how poor a shooter Aaron Gordon is.  Alls I'm saying is, those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones... unless you're Jaylen Brown... in which case, throw all the stones you want, you ain't hitting anything.

Actually if you read scouting reports before draft Gordon was considered a bad shooter. Probably worsh than Brown especially factoring in free throw percentage.

And that has basically nothing to do with Aaron Gordon in year 3.  He made leaps between his rookie and sophomore season.  Perhaps Jaylen will to.    So telling me that Gordon was considered a bad shooter coming into the draft ... while Jaylen is also considered a bad shooter - doesn't really prove anything, right?

Anyways... Gordon was seen as a better prospect.   Look no further than the world-famous Chad Ford Draft tier article.

Scouts/experts had Gordon as a tier 2 prospect.  "Tier 2 is reserved for players who are projected as potential All-Stars by scouts.".   Gordon was in there above Marcus Smart, who Gordon was drafted ahead of and continues to be seen as a better prospect than two years later. 

Scouts/experts had Brown as a tier 3 prospect.  "This tier is typically reserved for players who are projected as NBA starters".   He also mentioned:  "Of this group, Bender and Brown were the only players to receive Tier 4 votes."

So Gordon was seen as a future star heading into the draft.  Some saw Brown as a projecting as a high-level rotation player.

2014 Draft tiers:  http://hawksquawk.net/community/topic/394690-chad-ford-ranking-draft-prospects-by-tiers-2014/

2016 Draft tiers:  http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=85249.0

Is what it is.

So now that we've gotten that out of the way and established that yes, Gordon was seen as a superior prospect, we can go back to comparing them right now.

Give me one piece of evidence that suggests any part of Jaylen Brown's game is superior to Aaron Gordon right now.  I don't see any.   From everything we've seen, Brown isn't as good as Gordon right now.  This is understandable, though considering Gordon is heading into his 3rd NBA season and Jaylen, having never played an NBA game, just got done struggling in Summer league. 

Naturally, I'll now be labelled a "hater" by some of the more ignorant menaces that fester on this forum.   Others will rabblerouse about how I'm a Orlando Magic fan and have Aaron Gordon posters on my wall.  But I assure you, I'm firmly on the Jaylen Brown bandwagon.  I've been supportive of the pick.   I trust Ainge.  Brown shows signs of being good some day.  I was encouraged by aspects of his summer league performance.  I am looking forward very much to watching him develop.   But again, I see no reason to believe any part of his game is better than Gordon right now.

Did you seriously just use Chad Ford's tiers? Why not use how many pokemon the guys caught? This is a guy that edits his draft orders after the fact to make himself look smarter, and we are supposed to take his tiers level as gospel? They were both rated very similarly coming out of high school my any site i could find (both within their class and overall) and you choose to come back with Chad Ford tiers.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
It's based on his conversations with scouts and front offices.  It's not his personal mock.  It's supposed to give you a sense of how significant the prospects are seen as they enter the draft.  Point is, Gordon was seen as a future star.  Opinions on Brown are split between those who think he's going to be a future starter and those who think he projects as a high quality rotation player.

We hope for the best, though.
Lets look at this again and realize it was torn into pieces 3 minutes into most of these guys careers. Maybe don't use this again as something with any value?

Tier 3:

Gary Harris
Doug McDermott
Nik Stauskas

Tier 4

Tyler Ennis

Rodney Hood
Zach LaVine
Jusuf Nurkic
Elfrid Payton
Adreian Payne
Kristaps Porzingis
James Young
Irrelevant.   Stop wasting my time, Clay.   Tell me something useful.

Gordon was seen as a higher level prospect than Jaylen is seen at right now.  It is what it is.   Showing me a bunch of irrelevant stuff about how guys have and haven't panned out has nothing to do with whether or not Jaylen is seen as a better prospect than Gordon was in 2014.

And as I said before, that really doesn't matter one way or the other.   The key question was, right now, is Jaylen better than Gordon is?  No.  The answer is no.

Long-term, maybe.  But there's no reason to believe Brown is better than Gordon right now.

How is that irrelevant there sparky?  You used this as your argument for their comparable value. I scrolled down and showed you how far off Ford's tier was from the exact same source you bothered to cut and paste from.

If you use something objective, like numeral rankings from rivals, or ESPN for them as high school seniors they both had the same exact ranking (both in their number rating, and within their class). I stopped looked beyond that , but have a feeling any reputable source would have given them a very similar rating as high school seniors. Stop misleading the board by pretending they were different level prospects cause that just isn't true. Both were projected as high lottery picks, both were seen as having the potential to grow into an all star. I have read some people saying Brown has superstar potential, but people may have said that about Gordon and I missed it. It is what it is, they are similar prospects. Sorry you can't spin it a different way...

Easy. That's LarBrd33 logic 101- if it doesn't fit his narrative, then it's necessarily wrong, irrelevant, or subject to interpretation. That's been his MO here for years.
Lol I know. The fact that someone would try to do this with a straight face never does cease to amaze me.
1) Larbrd introduces draft tears as evidence of value
2) Poster points out the absurdity of the tiers from the source Larbrd provides
3) Larbrd states his fingers got all their exercises and not to waste time

Lather. rinse repeat.

Offline LarBrd33

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