Author Topic: Thinking out loud - does Gordon for Brown makes sense for both Boston + Orlando?  (Read 26531 times)

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Online RJ87

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Good to see people are already overrating Brown.
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Offline Tr1boy

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Trade Crowder , Zizic and future 1st for Gordon. 


Offline LarBrd33

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Good to see people are already overrating Brown.
of course. 

Offline hwangjini_1

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doesn't make sense for Orlando
why would it not make sense for them to get a better player? i am curious on this. thanks.
hes not
he is.

see? two can do that.  ;D
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Offline dreamgreen

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If I'm betting, I bet Brown becomes a much better player than Gordon. So no I don't like that trade idea at all sorry.

Offline ThePaintedArea

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[wrong thread]
« Last Edit: July 24, 2016, 02:52:20 PM by ThePaintedArea »

Offline LarBrd33

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doesn't make sense for Orlando
why would it not make sense for them to get a better player? i am curious on this. thanks.
hes not
he is.

see? two can do that.  ;D
Why would you possibly think that.  What evidence suggests Brown is close to as good as Gordon right now.  And for what reason do you assume Brown has a higher ceiling?  They are about a year apart in age.  Are you basing this on Summerleague performances or something?  Statistically, Brown was the 64th best player in Summer league this year.  His performance was encouraging.  I hope he improves long-term.  But let's not forget that Aaron Gordon straight up dominated Summer league last season.  Statistically, he had one of the 3 best Summer leagues of the past decade (21.7 points, 11.7 rebounds, 2.6 assists, 1.6 blocks, 50% FG and 50% from three).   Video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g30F54PaBY0

He translated that into some moderate success last season, eventually starting for the Magic and playing well on both sides of the ball.    12 point, 7.3 rebounds, 2 assists, 1.1 steals with 48%/29%/65% shooting after the break in 27 minutes per game. 

Maybe Jaylen ends up better.  Right now, there's no reason to think Jaylen is better.  Assuming Jaylen has a higher ceiling is arbitrary at best.  Gordon has a massive ceiling.  Whether or not he gets there - who knows.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2016, 04:51:19 PM by LarBrd33 »

Online Surferdad

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Trade Crowder , Zizic and future 1st for Gordon.
I sure hope this was sarcasm. If not, I am amazed that some folks on this thread think so highly of Gordon. He is a good player and will have a solid NBA career but he doesn't have as good a chance as Brown at being an all-star. 

Online RJ87

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Trade Crowder , Zizic and future 1st for Gordon.
I sure hope this was sarcasm. If not, I am amazed that some folks on this thread think so highly of Gordon. He is a good player and will have a solid NBA career but he doesn't have as good a chance as Brown at being an all-star.

Are both of you being sarcastic? That package is an overpay,yes,  but Brown doesn't exactly project as an all star. Quite frankly, I'm not entirely sure he'll be a starting caliber. I definitely think his skill is intriguing and his work ethic seems great, but he reads more Marcus Smart 2.0 than future all star.
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SF: Gordon Hayward/Demar Derozan
PF: Giannis Antetokounmpo/Robert Covington
C: Kristaps Porzingis/Bobby Portis/James Wiseman

Offline hwangjini_1

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doesn't make sense for Orlando
why would it not make sense for them to get a better player? i am curious on this. thanks.
hes not
he is.

see? two can do that.  ;D
Why would you possibly think that.  What evidence suggests Brown is close to as good as Gordon right now.  And for what reason do you assume Brown has a higher ceiling?  They are about a year apart in age.  Are you basing this on Summerleague performances or something?  Statistically, Brown was the 64th best player in Summer league this year.  His performance was encouraging.  I hope he improves long-term.  But let's not forget that Aaron Gordon straight up dominated Summer league last season.  Statistically, he had one of the 3 best Summer leagues of the past decade.  He translated that into some moderate success last season, eventually starting for the Magic and playing well on both sides of the ball.   

Maybe Jaylen ends up better.  Right now, there's no reason to think Jaylen is better.  Assuming Jaylen has a higher ceiling is arbitrary at best.  Gordon has a massive ceiling.  Whether or not he gets there - who knows.
good for you lb, good questions and not two word chirps. thank you. this is a reply that creates a more interesting conversation. thank you.

the key, of course, for both our opinions lays in the same basic pool of information. all you write above on lack of playing time etc. for brown is true, yet both of us have ventured opinions about him based upon that small pool of information. since we are simply having fun and guessing on a public blog, why not?  ;D

and at the end of the day, we can both have intelligent, well supported opinions that differ. life is good that way.  ;D

next, why do i think brown will be better than gordon? i think gordon is an enormously talented, physically gifted athlete. but his basketball skills have, in the small small sample we are both using, not shone very brightly.

specifically, in college and in the pros, shooting has been a distinctive weakness. when i read the pre-draft reviews on gordon, they all mentioned something to the effect that watching aaron gordon shoot made them all want to run out and buy a shawn marion CD on shooting mechanics.  ;) (oh, i stole that joke, btw.)

the point was repeatedly made that gordon's shot is broken, badly. thus far in the nba, he has not fixed it. he averaged 9 points a game last year on a bad team. on a bad team his physical skills should make him the leader and "go to" guy. this he is not. a focal point in the offense, he is not.

indeed, his 3 point percentage has dropped precipitously from his college days. (last season was 29.6% and he takes two a game. but from the right corner he shoots 45%, 23.5% from the left corner. go figure.)

that is my main reservation about aaron, almost every other part of him game is pretty good to sometimes great. but not being able to score much from outside is a drawback, no doubt. but then, no single player has a perfectly balanced game.

but let's also look at other areas since he strength is not shooting. his rebounds are 6.5 a game. nice not great. assists? 1.6/g. blocks? 0.7/g. none of this is chopped liver, but none if screams alpha player on a bad team either.

adding to the above scoring situation, gordon only takes 2 foul shots a game. meaning his scoring opportunities are mostly limited to making shots.

now to brown and our itty bitty pool of info shrinks even more.  ;D not only that, but the data is often college versus nba data. so too iffy for me to make definitive decisions. i will hazard guesses though. that is safe and fun to do.

scoring - hard to say much without evidence - either way. but brown looks as if he will score more than aaron gordon does. neither now are good shooters, but brown's mechanics don't make people want to gouge their eyes out. (humor, humor.  ;)

gordon is likely to keep score primarily from being close to the basket. we see the results already.

brown has more potential to develop a credible jump shot. his form is better. if/when he does, his outstanding first step to the basket will play very well in the nba. he will get the basket often, and he will also draw fouls often. this is both a physical and basketball skill and it will result in points for brown.

and you can bet that CBS will draw up plays that allow brown to use his quick first step effectively.

to me, brown is the better scorer and will increase his edge over gordon. like gordon, brown will score more mostly close to the basket. and here brown will score more points more often. he will also go to the free throw line a LOT more than gordon does. (brown = 6.4 FT attempts per game, that's a lot.)

interestingly for 3 point shots, brown just dominates from the left side of the floor. but suckly sucks from the right side. the mirror opposite of gordon. again, go figure. neither one is going to win the 3 point contest in the near future.

rebounding - if we drive using our rear view mirrors and use history as our guide to the future (i stole that joke too) it looks as if gordon will rebound better. but, gordon is a power forward and brown is a sf/sg. gordon is located on the floor to rebound better as part of his job. and gordon is a heck of an athlete as well.

but will the rebounding gap be decidedly and significantly better by gordon? again, history says nope. in college gordon had 8/g. brown 5.4/game. in the pros, gordon got 6.5 last season as a pro. (10/g per 36) is that outstanding for a pf in the nba?

assists - each of the averaged 2 assist per game in college. as a pro gordon gets 1.3. but then again, gordon is pf so this might not be a strength. but no clear dominate edge to either guy.

blocks - gordon 1/g in college. brown had 0.6/g in college. i rack this up to positional play, as i did to rebounds. but no clear, dominate edge to either guy.

gordon is good, no doubt. but i think brown and his scoring (FT included) make him the better nba player going forward.

now, if you wish to debate and say pf =/= sf and they are not comparable, i wont get too upset and might even agree. but again, we are here for fun, so knock yourself out.

have at it lb. i would like to hear your points. and if we still disagree, then life is still good.  ;D

P.S. well crap-avous....i completely forgot to talk about defense.  :P that will have to be taken up by other folks. my attention span, such as it is, is already burned out.  ;D
« Last Edit: July 24, 2016, 05:45:15 PM by hwangjini_1 »
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy — not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
- Vandana Shiva

Offline LarBrd33

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I assume that you laid down a case for why Jaylen Brown is better than Aaron Gordon.  That doesn't seem to be the case, but I hope you're right.  I guess we'll have to see how Jaylen plays on the pro level.  My expectations are that he'll average about 6 points on 35% shooting and struggle to make an impact for a few years.

Based on what little we've seen of Jaylen thus far (College and a few summer league games), I don't see any part of his game that is better than Aaron Gordon a year ago.

He has potential.  It's going to take him time. 

Aaron Gordon has made leaps.  Hopefully Jaylen can make similar leaps someday.

Offline hwangjini_1

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I assume that you laid down a case for why Jaylen Brown is better than Aaron Gordon.  That doesn't seem to be the case, but I hope you're right.  I guess we'll have to see how Jaylen plays on the pro level.  My expectations are that he'll average about 6 points on 35% shooting and struggle to make an impact for a few years.

Based on what little we've seen of Jaylen thus far (College and a few summer league games), I don't see any part of his game that is better than Aaron Gordon a year ago.

He has potential.  It's going to take him time. 

Aaron Gordon has made leaps.  Hopefully Jaylen can make similar leaps someday.
it is possible to think both are good, yet one may have an edge in a particular category/area that one of us values more than the other. that's life. :)

but, let's have some fun. i accept your "challenge" on brown's future. i predict he will surpass your predictions this year AND next. i am willing to commit to an awe inspiring wager as testiment to my belief.

if brown surpasses your prediction, you click and give me 10 valuable and precious tps each year. if brown does not, then i will return the favor.

and if brown manages to average EXACTLY 6 points a game, well hell, let's give each tps. ha, ha.

deal?  ;D
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy — not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
- Vandana Shiva

Offline Tr1boy

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Trade Crowder , Zizic and future 1st for Gordon.
I sure hope this was sarcasm. If not, I am amazed that some folks on this thread think so highly of Gordon. He is a good player and will have a solid NBA career but he doesn't have as good a chance as Brown at being an all-star.

Is Brown included in the trade proposal?

I would like to see both in the lineup

Gordon is a leader. Explosive. High iq. Exceptional motor

Offline Eddie20

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I'm not sure how many have seen Gordon play much, but he's not a very good basketball player. He tries to do too much (like going coast to coast instead of passing it to a guard and running the lane). He's not a very good rebounder at the 4 and gets bodied way too easy. Overall, he has a bad feel for the game.

Brown is younger and is a natural fit at the SF spot. Gordon can't really play that spot effectively because his ballhandling isn't that good and his shot is mechanically broken. I think Brown has the way higher upside. His first step is amazing and he has really good footwork. Plus, his shooting form, while still a work in progress, is sound. Let's also not forget that he has 2 more years of cost control under his rookie scale deal.

Offline loco_91

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This could make sense for both teams, but it's the type of trade that rarely happens. Need a stronger rationale than "this guy is more of a 3 and this guy is more of a 4".