Author Topic: Top 3 moves Danny has made that you hated when you first heard it  (Read 7940 times)

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Re: Top 3 moves Danny has made that you hated when you first heard it
« Reply #30 on: July 24, 2016, 11:30:04 PM »

Offline GetLucky

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1: Perkins trade Destroyed team chemistry---cost us a Ring...we were KILLING the entire league--Danny Outsmarted himself. For Jeff "Asleep at the wheel" Green and a center that Doc stopped playing.

2: Telfair trade--I punched my Dashboard when I heard the news on the radio.

3: Drafting Marcus Smart---but I actually like this move now.


We weren't killing the league with Perk that season. Shaq went down and we were never good enough to beat Miami after it. The only playoff game we won against them was the one Shaq came back, he was shot the next game after a few mins and Mia never looked back.


People forget that Perkins was also hurt himself, and we traded for Green (who was needed because Pierce was suffering as well when and Daniels went down, and we needed more bodies for Carmelo/LeBron to guard) and along with Green we acquired Kristic as well. Wasn't a world beater, but more than serviceable a at a time when all our bigs were pretty much unhealthy, we got a healthy center for a turn. Too bad he himself got hurt entering the Playoffs.

I'm still not sure how people can view the trade for Perk in such a negative way even at this time, aside from personal emotional reasons. But it was a good trade and we won it by a landslide. Team chemistry wasn't what destroyed that team, but health. Having Perkins wouldn't have changed that one bit.

I laugh at the idea that of "we were killing the league with Perk that season". Actually no, we were killing the league with SHAQ. Perk missed all games up to late January. He then played 12 games and injured himself again. We traded an injured Perk.

People also forget that we got an unprotected Clippers first rounder, and that was when the Clippers sucked (before they traded for CP3). If Danny had gotten Green (an 18ppg starter a few years later) along with a top-10 pick for an injured and soon-to-be-overplayed Perk, it would have been highway robbery.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2016, 11:36:43 PM by GetLucky »

Re: Top 3 moves Danny has made that you hated when you first heard it
« Reply #31 on: July 24, 2016, 11:46:30 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I am truly surprised how much traction the Perk thing is getting here. I absolutely loved that deal at the time, though Green was going to become a star. Obviously I was wrong but at the time...

Also, curious to see how many people are talking with hindsight. I remember thinking, wow Fab Melo is a super interesting prospect. It was a reach though. Reaches are always scary. I'm willing to admit that I am wrong about deals more often than not though..
Coming into that draft Fab Melo was the 1 guy I didnt want.
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Re: Top 3 moves Danny has made that you hated when you first heard it
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2016, 12:20:25 AM »

Offline GC003332

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1.Telfair
2.Marbury
3.J O'Neil

Re: Top 3 moves Danny has made that you hated when you first heard it
« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2016, 12:31:13 AM »

Offline MBunge

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1: Perkins trade Destroyed team chemistry---cost us a Ring...we were KILLING the entire league--Danny Outsmarted himself. For Jeff "Asleep at the wheel" Green and a center that Doc stopped playing.

One thing that isn't always considered is that coaches can affect how a GM's moves turn out.  You can debate the pros and cons of a lot of Doc's decisions but his stubborn refusal to play Kristic, especially as Big Baby stunk out the place, made the move look a lot worse.  Kristic was a starter on a playoff team in the West and all Doc cared about is he didn't do exactly the same things Perk did.

Mike

Re: Top 3 moves Danny has made that you hated when you first heard it
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2016, 12:37:35 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Without question the #1 answer is the trade for Ray Allen. 

Out of context, it was idiotic.  Giving up a top 5 pick, delonte west and other assets for a 32 year old shooting guard with bad ankles was disgusting.  There was no way Pierce and Ray would go far together.  It didn't make us a contender.  It was seemingly another shortsighted Knicksian move to sell tickets like when we brought back Antoine walker.   It also eliminated our key trade asset we were trying to use to acquire Kevin Garnett.  I didn't just hate that move, I was borderline considering taking a break from following the Celtics.  It was awful.   To lose the durant/oden sweepstakes and then give up a top 5 pick for a few years of post-prime Ray Allen was too depressing.

Then we traded for KG and it made sense.

Re: Top 3 moves Danny has made that you hated when you first heard it
« Reply #35 on: July 25, 2016, 01:08:13 AM »

Online trickybilly

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Without question the #1 answer is the trade for Ray Allen. 

Out of context, it was idiotic.  Giving up a top 5 pick, delonte west and other assets for a 32 year old shooting guard with bad ankles was disgusting.  There was no way Pierce and Ray would go far together.  It didn't make us a contender.  It was seemingly another shortsighted Knicksian move to sell tickets like when we brought back Antoine walker.   It also eliminated our key trade asset we were trying to use to acquire Kevin Garnett.  I didn't just hate that move, I was borderline considering taking a break from following the Celtics.  It was awful.   To lose the durant/oden sweepstakes and then give up a top 5 pick for a few years of post-prime Ray Allen was too depressing.

Then we traded for KG and it made sense.

TP.
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Re: Top 3 moves Danny has made that you hated when you first heard it
« Reply #36 on: July 25, 2016, 01:13:16 AM »

Offline BlastFromThePast

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1.  Rondo trade.  It wasn't confined to trading Rajon but including Dwight Powell who I had high hopes for then and continue to the present.  Trading or passing up on players with length and athleticism is a recurring theme (see below).

2.  The trade with Memphis in this year's draft to Memphis for a future 1st pick of the Clippers.  It's not wholly accurate to refer to the C's side of the trade as consisting merely of two 2nd rounders.  The first of the two at #31 (Deyonta Davis) was made for Memphis and a known quantity rather than subject to the vagaries of the draft as to who would be available at that slot.  Going into the draft, DD was universally projected to be a lottery pick .  He too has the kind of length, shot blocking ability and athleticism that the C's sorely lack.  (In the spirit of openness, DD was one of my "binkies".) 

I hope that in making the trade, Ainge received some informal assurances of "future considerations" (unannounced yet made with a wink and a nod) such as the C's getting first dibs on Marc Gasol in the event that Memphis "tanks". 

3.  There are a whole host of potential candidates for the 3rd worst moves made by Ainge such as signing Blount to a huge, for that time, contract extension; bringing back Antoine (had no problem with shipping his shimmying ass out); refusing to pay Posey (his departure more so than Perk's, who I also had no problem with him being traded for the reasons previously stated, undermined the C's chances at repeating titles); trading TA who at that time was the only player on the C's roster who had the athleticism to stay in the same zip code when guarding Kobe and, indeed, even make the roster of a team in the Western Conference; signing washed up, over-the-hill players like Marbury, Shaq, etc.
 
But, if forced to identify a 3rd blunder "move" Ainge has made, I would say it has been his near complete inability to identity and draft/trade for bonafide big man with talent.  It's not just the "whiff" on the Fab Melo pick (and we still have to wait and see how KO turns out), it's the fact that Denver has a boatload of big men some of whom were drafted in the 2nd round.  The same holds true for Portland and other teams.  I should also add Danny's long held infatuation with Robert Swift to the mix.

I trust Danny's talent evaluation, for the most part, when it comes to players his own size (6'5") and below but not above and that's why I was actually relieved when he didn't select Bender at #3 although the jury is still out on Jalen Brown.


Re: Top 3 moves Danny has made that you hated when you first heard it
« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2016, 02:24:44 AM »

Offline chambers

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hated the james young pick. I thought he sucked and couldn't see whatever Danny and Brad saw.

Hated the addition of Evan Turner for our tanking efforts- although ET proved me wrong. Still wish we'd had him for 4 years now instead of 2.

Acquiring David Lee.
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Re: Top 3 moves Danny has made that you hated when you first heard it
« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2016, 02:41:14 AM »

Offline LatterDayCelticsfan

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1. The DJ White To Brooklyn trade: took some time to get over all the supplementary pieces we had to send just to get them to absorb his salary. Worked out great for us but at the time it hurt

2. The Rondo trade. I had bought into the whole Rolling with Rondo narrative with him being team captain and proclaiming to the world how he and Brad Stevens were Basketball BFFs, and then boom, he's off to the Mavs for some overprotected picks an unheard of small forward, and assorted trade bait

3. The Isaiah Thomas trade. This more startled me than upset me. Did not make sense at all. I thought we were still in tear down and flip pieces fro future assets mode, but we go and grab an upgrade in the PG position, just months after ditching an all star PG in Rondo and drafting a PG project in Marcus Smart.
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Re: Top 3 moves Danny has made that you hated when you first heard it
« Reply #39 on: July 25, 2016, 02:59:03 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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1: Perkins trade Destroyed team chemistry---cost us a Ring...we were KILLING the entire league--Danny Outsmarted himself. For Jeff "Asleep at the wheel" Green and a center that Doc stopped playing.

2: Telfair trade--I punched my Dashboard when I heard the news on the radio.

3: Drafting Marcus Smart---but I actually like this move now.


We weren't killing the league with Perk that season. Shaq went down and we were never good enough to beat Miami after it. The only playoff game we won against them was the one Shaq came back, he was shot the next game after a few mins and Mia never looked back.


People forget that Perkins was also hurt himself, and we traded for Green (who was needed because Pierce was suffering as well when and Daniels went down, and we needed more bodies for Carmelo/LeBron to guard) and along with Green we acquired Kristic as well. Wasn't a world beater, but more than serviceable a at a time when all our bigs were pretty much unhealthy, we got a healthy center for a turn. Too bad he himself got hurt entering the Playoffs.

I'm still not sure how people can view the trade for Perk in such a negative way even at this time, aside from personal emotional reasons. But it was a good trade and we won it by a landslide. Team chemistry wasn't what destroyed that team, but health. Having Perkins wouldn't have changed that one bit.

I laugh at the idea that of "we were killing the league with Perk that season". Actually no, we were killing the league with SHAQ. Perk missed all games up to late January. He then played 12 games and injured himself again. We traded an injured Perk.

The Perk trade was a shock to me at the time and was completely unexpected - but also completely necessary.

Looking at it in hindsight, we very clearly won that trade. Kristic gave us far more production that season then Perkins ever would have given his health situation...Jeff Green gave us multiple seasons of 15+ PPG scoring, and Perk went on to become one of the worst players in the entire league after the trade. 

Anybody who thinks we would have had a better shot at a title with Perk on the roster has no clue.  We had a far better shot with Green and Krstic had Kristic stayed healthy.  He did get hurt and ended up missing the rest of the year, but he was healthy at the time of the trade and there was no way for Danny to envision he'd get hurt.

Krstic had his limitations sure, but he was a better all round player then Perk was, and Green (for all his flaws) gave us starting production for a good couple of years. 

People also completely ignore the fact that the decision to trade Perk was not as simple as wanting an upgrade - Perkins basically forced Danny's hand by refusing to sign the contract extension he got offered, and by insisting on a ridiculous salary that he wasn't close to being worthy of.  Thunder gave him that contract, and they later lived to regret it. Much like Tony Allen, Danny wanted to keep Perk, but he wanted too much money - more then Danny could realistically offer.

People don't like the trade because he got a ring with us, and because they got accustomed to seeing that same starting five step on the court each day, and as a result people allowed themselves to get emotionally attached to him as a Celtic. 

As a player Perk was a pure role player in the strictest sense - he wasn't a great rebounder, he was almost completely useless offensively, and his defense was solid but not elite.  He was made to look better when playing in Boston alongside Rondo, Ray, Pierce and KG - he got a ton of easy looks from those guys, and it allowed him to play a very simple and pigeonholed role.  When he left that big 4, his weaknesses were very clearly exposed.

« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 03:06:03 AM by crimson_stallion »

Re: Top 3 moves Danny has made that you hated when you first heard it
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2016, 05:00:14 AM »

Offline BornReady

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1. Drafting fab melo
2. Drafting JR Giddens
3.  Perkins trade - still had a chance to win a championship with perk as starter  but then traded him for jeff green, kristic and pick that became fab melo. Kristic left due to family issues overseas I think. The oneals had issues with injuries and inefficiency. Shaq also told ainge that he wouldn't be healthy enough to play long mins. Even with Perkins coming back from an injury and wanting more money as a free agent and the need for a backup SF. We should have kept Perkins and trade a draft pick for a SF.

Re: Top 3 moves Danny has made that you hated when you first heard it
« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2016, 05:46:05 AM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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How about the top 3 moves he DID NOT MAKE.

Drafting JR Giddens was not at the top for me but I encountered him personally when he dated my on again off again gf.....

He showed off his money and bragged about the first round and was smoking put dipped in whatever they cremate bodies with. He got her to smoke some of it and even justified getting messed up all summer because they had just gotten eliminated from the playoffs, he lived next to Gabe Pruit but Gabe was nice. I could not believe we chose this idiot to be our new "project". I was also on record as wanting Jordan.

Re: Top 3 moves Danny has made that you hated when you first heard it
« Reply #42 on: July 25, 2016, 05:53:42 AM »

Offline LHR

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Drafting Fab Melo
Trading for Jeff Green
Drafting Jaylen Brown
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Re: Top 3 moves Danny has made that you hated when you first heard it
« Reply #43 on: July 25, 2016, 07:43:32 AM »

Offline Granath

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Without question the #1 answer is the trade for Ray Allen. 

Out of context, it was idiotic.  Giving up a top 5 pick, delonte west and other assets for a 32 year old shooting guard with bad ankles was disgusting.  There was no way Pierce and Ray would go far together.  It didn't make us a contender.  It was seemingly another shortsighted Knicksian move to sell tickets like when we brought back Antoine walker.   It also eliminated our key trade asset we were trying to use to acquire Kevin Garnett.  I didn't just hate that move, I was borderline considering taking a break from following the Celtics.  It was awful.   To lose the durant/oden sweepstakes and then give up a top 5 pick for a few years of post-prime Ray Allen was too depressing.

Then we traded for KG and it made sense.

TP Lar. You and I greatly agree on this one. It's the only major trade in Danny's recent history that made me go apoplectic.

When Ainge traded the #5 pick for an aging, soon-to-be washed up Ray Allen I literally said "what the f*** is he doing"? I thought he just had some psychotic reaction to getting screwed in the lottery and was desperate not to get fired. It didn't make sense. Allen and Pierce couldn't win anything together. By the time Al Jefferson was in his prime Ray Allen would be long gone. I hated that deal with a passion.

Then a month later Ainge made the deal to get KG and all the pieces fell in place. After that I learned to give Ainge the benefit of the doubt, especially when it comes to trades. Thus I was one of the few defenders of the Rondo trade many years later.
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Re: Top 3 moves Danny has made that you hated when you first heard it
« Reply #44 on: July 25, 2016, 07:53:39 AM »

Offline LatterDayCelticsfan

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Without question the #1 answer is the trade for Ray Allen. 

Out of context, it was idiotic.  Giving up a top 5 pick, delonte west and other assets for a 32 year old shooting guard with bad ankles was disgusting.  There was no way Pierce and Ray would go far together.  It didn't make us a contender.  It was seemingly another shortsighted Knicksian move to sell tickets like when we brought back Antoine walker.   It also eliminated our key trade asset we were trying to use to acquire Kevin Garnett.  I didn't just hate that move, I was borderline considering taking a break from following the Celtics.  It was awful.   To lose the durant/oden sweepstakes and then give up a top 5 pick for a few years of post-prime Ray Allen was too depressing.

Then we traded for KG and it made sense.

TP Lar. You and I greatly agree on this one. It's the only major trade in Danny's recent history that made me go apoplectic.

When Ainge traded the #5 pick for an aging, soon-to-be washed up Ray Allen I literally said "what the f*** is he doing"? I thought he just had some psychotic reaction to getting screwed in the lottery and was desperate not to get fired. It didn't make sense. Allen and Pierce couldn't win anything together. By the time Al Jefferson was in his prime Ray Allen would be long gone. I hated that deal with a passion.

Then a month later Ainge made the deal to get KG and all the pieces fell in place. After that I learned to give Ainge the benefit of the doubt, especially when it comes to trades. Thus I was one of the few defenders of the Rondo trade many years later.

TP!

Danny Ainge has a knack for making the ends justify the means.
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