Author Topic: Deduction: Jaylen Brown is available in trade talks  (Read 7104 times)

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Re: Deduction: Jaylen Brown is available in trade talks
« Reply #30 on: July 24, 2016, 11:28:18 AM »

Offline droopdog7

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TP for the dirty diapers, lol ;D. It would be pretty crappy to trade Brown now, though, wouldn't it?  I just find the timing to be odd, to say the least.  Did he not have more value before the summer league, lol ;D, and for whom would he be traded, anyway, at this point, now that Wade and Rondo have gone to Chicago.  Griffin?  Cousins?

Why is that? If anything, I think he started showing that he was at least worthy of that 3rd pick, especially his play towards the end of summer league.

Well, in general, wouldn't a draft pick, especially one in the top 3, be valued higher before he hit the court where he can show his warts, etc.?  Maybe it's like opening some sort of collectible that is valued so high because it hadn't been taken out of the packaging?  I'm not sure, but I think that that's the gist of the argument that has been outlined before on here.  Perhaps it's like wanting to trade the Brooklyn pick at the deadline because of what it could be, as opposed to holding onto it and being at the mercy of the lottery? 

Anyway, Brown had two nice fadeaway jumpers and a few great spin moves, but I don't think that    he showed that he was at least worthy of being taken third.  He did play better in the final, what, two games, or was it three?  Either way, I'm trying to like him, and I absolutely want him to be a success, but I'm not there, yet.  He didn't hit a field goal in the first half of either of his first two games, failed to make a basket, at all, in the third, his jumper was slightly better than advertised, I guess, he had great difficulty in finishing around the basket, and his decision making, especially when he quite often opted to dribble, with his head down :o *facepalm*, into 2-3 guys and either invariably fall over or just flat out lose the ball altogether, was hardly impressive to me, sorry :-\.

So basically you're being highly critical of a guy who was injured during summer league, and didn't fail to live up to the expectations? Oh geez bummer, I guess every rookie that fails to dominate summer league is pretty much down the crapper.  :police:

Honestly, I had no expectations for Brown, and even though I didn't, and still don't, like the pick, I went into every game with a completely open mind, regardless of his last performance, eagerly waiting for something, anything, that would say to me, "Ah, now I see why they took him," and aside from the things I mentioned, I wasn't impressed.  In fact, after those first 3 games, I was extremely concerned, and still am, but I'm trying to grin and bear it, lol ;D.

I get that the guy was injured, but he wasn't impressive, to me, before he sustained that injury.  Did that hamper his play, at least for a time, absolutely, but I'm not saying that he's a bust, although, like many on here, I was understandably down after watching him play, to say the least. 

However, I don't think that there is anything wrong with having high expectations for the guy.  This is the best pick we've had in almost 20 years, and, I'm sorry, but he has to at least be an all star to justify his selection at 3, and I don't think that that's unreasonable, at all.  Please, Jaylen Brown, please make me eat my words, lol ;D. Please?
Serious question.  Did you watch Ingram?  Were you impressed?  Did you watch Murray?  Were you impressed?

Basically, we watch our own guy with a hyper eye.  We forget that many other guys in the same boat do the same things.  This summer league won't determine whether he becomes a good player or not.  Still plenty of growth potential.

And here is one national opinion for perspective.  Clearly, many fans are too tough on their own guys.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-summer-league-rookie-rankings-brown-simmons-shine-ingram-erratic/
« Last Edit: July 24, 2016, 11:39:11 AM by droopdog7 »

Re: Deduction: Jaylen Brown is available in trade talks
« Reply #31 on: July 24, 2016, 12:43:31 PM »

Online SHAQATTACK

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Obvious high upside , when it appears he can play some mi Utes right off the bat at age 19 .  Could be a big star  by 23 or just another one of the Greens.....take your pick.

I'm hoping for attitude Kobe 2.0 to emerge.

Re: Deduction: Jaylen Brown is available in trade talks
« Reply #32 on: July 24, 2016, 01:39:28 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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We'll see. But drafting a player who can't shoot third is inexplicable, although it's what Danny Ainge does.

So how about Ben Simmons who went #1? He not only can't shoot, but is petrified to do so

Re: Deduction: Jaylen Brown is available in trade talks
« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2016, 02:36:15 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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FWIW Jaylen Brown was spotted in LA at Venice Beach Saturday afternoon. Is he from LA?

Jaylen went to college at the University of California Berkeley, so he could be just visiting since he has some time off right now.
Cal is a pretty long way from LA.  That said, millions of people spend some time at Venice beach in the summer during their time off.  So this pretty much means nothing more than that

DA should sign him and put  a stipulation in the contract that he should not play pick-up basketball at Venice Beach. Those folks really get into it on that court.

Re: Deduction: Jaylen Brown is available in trade talks
« Reply #34 on: July 24, 2016, 03:08:03 PM »

Offline alldaboston

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We'll see. But drafting a player who can't shoot third is inexplicable, although it's what Danny Ainge does.

So how about Ben Simmons who went #1? He not only can't shoot, but is petrified to do so

Don't you know? Only our players and GM suck according to Bo. Everyone else is innocent and as clean as an angel. Danny is the only guy who sucks at his job.
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: Deduction: Jaylen Brown is available in trade talks
« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2016, 03:35:45 PM »

Offline Bobshot

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With today's signings of Zeller, Green, Jackson, and Bentil, the Celtics are essentially at the cap line (they probably have about $1.5 million left, which isn't enough to do anything of consequence, especially since they already have a room exception of $2.9 million). 

The signing of Brown can have been delayed for two likely reasons.  The first was to preserve cap room for a trade or signing.  While his cap hold is just under $4 million, he will probably sign for about $4.8 million, meaning the delay created an addition $800k in cap room.

The second is that since 1st round draftees cannot be traded for 30 days after they sign, getting Brown under contract would delay a trade by a month.  Furthermore, Brown would have a salary number of zero in a trade, which could also be important in a potential deal.  If Brown is unsigned, it may be because he is being discussed in somewhat advanced trade negotiations.

Therefore, since his delay no longer creates a cap advantage for th Celtics, I conclude that he's being discussed in a trade that Ainge deems a reasonable enough possibility so as to not yet sign Brown.  I will hedge slightly, and concede that he could be signed by end of day Monday, since technically teams aren't allowed to have verbal deals with draft picks and keep the cap room.  But rookie deals are pretty standard fare, so if it goes beyond Monday, I will drop this hedge completely, and declare that assuredly Brown is being discussed.

EDIT:  This is being discussed in another thread.  I started to write the post hours ago, and then got distracted by a series of dirty diapers.  Sigh.

Another TP for dirty diapers.

Smitty's rumors report has lifted a few spirits around here. Maybe Brown has shown just enough to be trade bait.

Re: Deduction: Jaylen Brown is available in trade talks
« Reply #36 on: July 24, 2016, 07:56:06 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Go back and check how many all stars were drafted at #3.  Some hits, some misses.  So being drafted at a high spot doesn't mean a whole lot after the fact.  People are doing the same thing with smart, since was drafted high. 

Now all that matters is what you see in the court.  And what I see is a guy with some nice tools that is he can put it together, has a chance to be real good.  Nice defensive potential as well. 

Let's sit back and see what happens.

Honestly, that sounds like you're trying to make excuses for Brown, in case he doesn't pan out, since you mentioned Smart, lol ;D, but I'm probably wrong here, right?

And yes, obviously all that matters is what happens on the court, regardless of where a guy was picked - absolutely, it's just that I believe that, if you're picking as high as we were in the most recent draft, I'd like to think that we're getting more than a roll player, and if it turns out that way, with other guys becoming all stars, for example, then picking Brown would be a failure, to me, although I guess that my standards are unreasonably high, lol ;D. Sorry about that :-\.

Having said all of that, I'm not calling, nor have I ever called, iirc, Brown a bust.  The question was concerning his summer league play, and I posted my views on the matter, but as I said before summer league, can we at least give the kid some time before we condemn him, lol ;D

Naturally, I'm still concerned, but at the same time, I'm not going to throw him under the bus.  Let's see how he does this year, and like I said, I really want him to make me eat my words.  I'm trying to be optimistic, lol ;D.


I personally don't recall many guys 6'6" or taller having 5 steals in one game as a rookie.  I personally do NOT recall many rookies AVERAGING 10+ FT attempts per game in Summer League.  Yes, he shot poorly, but he was fouled on MOST of those misses!!!!

Smitty77

Ignore LA. He's determined to hate Brown because that's not who he wanted on draft night. He won't be convinced until Brown starts dropping 20ppg consistently. Since that won't happen this year, expect a constant stream of "he's a bust" posts from him all year long.

I'm not sure how you arrived at this conclusion, given that I've repeatedly stated how I'm doing my best to embrace the pick, but I don't hate the guy, personally, or anything like that, and of course I'm not expecting him to average 20 a night, lol ;D. Even for me, that's ridiculous, haha ;D. I'm going to approach every game with an open mind in regards to Brown, and I hope that he'll show progress over the course of the season, if he ever plays, that is, but I'm not going to be posting 'he's a bust' all over the place.  Perhaps you have me confused with Clench, lol ;D?

And Smitty, sure, I'll give you the steals, that's fine, but I don't see how anyone can complain about Brown not getting more foul calls to add to games where he already had 17 free throw attempts, lol ;D. Whether he was fouled, or not, this problem has been evident since college, so it's nothing new.  I'm also concerned about how he got most of those free throws.  As someone much wiser than myself, csfansince60s, noted, Brown constantly pushes off and extends both arms to draw said contact, and if, although it's probably more like 'when', the officials catch onto that, he's always going to be in foul trouble.  I'm just not sure that his ability to get to the line, as he does, will translate, so we'll have to see what happens.  NBA officials regard rookies as Rodney Dangerfield, so I don't see him getting anywhere near half of the calls he got during the summer league over the course of real NBA game - at least right now, anyway. 

He also lowers his shoulder on many drives, and I'm surprised that he wasn't called for many more offensive fouls, even during the summer league, and I'd expect the refs in real games to cite him for those infractions, but maybe I'm wrong :-\.  Who knows.

Serious question.  Did you watch Ingram?  Were you impressed?  Did you watch Murray?  Were you impressed?

Basically, we watch our own guy with a hyper eye.  We forget that many other guys in the same boat do the same things.  This summer league won't determine whether he becomes a good player or not.  Still plenty of growth potential.

And here is one national opinion for perspective.  Clearly, many fans are too tough on their own guys.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-summer-league-rookie-rankings-brown-simmons-shine-ingram-erratic/

No, I did not watch Ingram, but I was checking the box scores during the games, and he was horrible most of the time, iirc, lol, so no, I wasn't impressed with him, either, but like you said, it's early, and I'm not passing final judgement on any of these guys.

That's not to say that I wasn't impressed by the rookies of other clubs, though.  Thon Maker, Skal, McCaw, Simmons (his passing, obviously), Kay Felder, Siakam, Diallo, Brogdon, Dekker (did he play in the summer league, last year?  I can't remember), Taurean Prince had his moments, although the trade process kept him out of two games so his sample size isn't the same as the other members of his class, Dejounte Murray, Poeltl, and our very own Nader all played very well, I though, although those guys are off of the top of my head matched with the stats on NBA.com, lol ;D.

I also liked what I saw from Bentil, Jackson had his moments, even though his overall play was shockingly bad, for the most part, unfortunately :-\, I didn't watch Jamal Murray, but it looks like he came on strong over the last few games after royally struggling in the earlier contests, and Buddy Hield was just awful, most of the time, imo, although I'm more going off of his box scores than his play, as I only watched one half of one of his games, iirc, and it wasn't even to see him, lol ;D, but yeah, I'm aware of the how fans of probably every team seem to view their players as inferior to those of their competition, for the most part.  Maybe it's just a natural part of fandom, lol ;D.

Re: Deduction: Jaylen Brown is available in trade talks
« Reply #37 on: July 24, 2016, 10:09:44 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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You're basically making my point beatla.  The draft is a bit of a crapshoot and every year, guys drafted later do better than guys drafted earlier.  That's not to completely excuse a gm for missing on guys but it happens.  And that's not to say that all the guys you were impressed with will be better than the guys that struggled. Clearly we are very early in the process. 

As for brown, let's wait and see what happens.  I definitely see the talent.  I see the flashes, which is what you look for at this stage.  And many of those outside the celtic nation see it too.  That you see something different puts you in the minority for now.


Re: Deduction: Jaylen Brown is available in trade talks
« Reply #38 on: July 24, 2016, 10:29:09 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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I will say this.

If Jaylen Brown could ever shoot, and learn how to pass better, which I believe frankly, Stevens will be able to help him excel in. Stevens brings out the best in a player. Jordan Crawford was an actual Eastern Conference player of the week thanks to him.

Brown may not live up the expectations, but he has a high ceiling. He's young. He clearly has athleticism, but we have to question if his talent is strong enough to land him towards First Team All Defense/Allstar.
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Re: Deduction: Jaylen Brown is available in trade talks
« Reply #39 on: July 24, 2016, 10:32:35 PM »

Offline loco_91

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But is there any reason to sign him earlier than we have to? I imagine that Ainge will put it off untiil the last minute even if he thinks there's only a 0.01% chance of trading Brown. Ainge always keeps his options open, and he isn't going to rule out trading a guy if he doesn't have to, but it doesn't mean that Brown is "available".

Re: Deduction: Jaylen Brown is available in trade talks
« Reply #40 on: July 24, 2016, 10:41:58 PM »

Offline saltlover

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But is there any reason to sign him earlier than we have to? I imagine that Ainge will put it off untiil the last minute even if he thinks there's only a 0.01% chance of trading Brown. Ainge always keeps his options open, and he isn't going to rule out trading a guy if he doesn't have to, but it doesn't mean that Brown is "available".

Sure, because you want to treat your new top draft pick fairly and let him work on his game without worrying about getting hurt for the next few weeks.  7 of the top 10 picks have signed already.

Re: Deduction: Jaylen Brown is available in trade talks
« Reply #41 on: July 24, 2016, 11:05:00 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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You're basically making my point beatla.  The draft is a bit of a crapshoot and every year, guys drafted later do better than guys drafted earlier.  That's not to completely excuse a gm for missing on guys but it happens.  And that's not to say that all the guys you were impressed with will be better than the guys that struggled. Clearly we are very early in the process. 

As for brown, let's wait and see what happens.  I definitely see the talent.  I see the flashes, which is what you look for at this stage.  And many of those outside the celtic nation see it too.  That you see something different puts you in the minority for now.

Absolutely, but I never said that the guys with whom I was impressed during the summer league will be better than those who struggled.  You were asking solely about summer league performances and I gave you my answer :-\.

And again, in regards to Brown, that's exactly what I'm saying, to wait and see what happens.  Like you, sure, I saw flashes, but I also saw many glaring weaknesses, with the latter overriding the former, AS OF RIGHT NOW, imo, but as you said, let's see what transpires.  Regardless, I'm rooting hard for the kid, believe it or not, lol ;D, I'm just not on the bandwagon, or whatever the exact term is, yet, okay?

Re: Deduction: Jaylen Brown is available in trade talks
« Reply #42 on: July 24, 2016, 11:40:23 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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But is there any reason to sign him earlier than we have to? I imagine that Ainge will put it off untiil the last minute even if he thinks there's only a 0.01% chance of trading Brown. Ainge always keeps his options open, and he isn't going to rule out trading a guy if he doesn't have to, but it doesn't mean that Brown is "available".

Sure, because you want to treat your new top draft pick fairly and let him work on his game without worrying about getting hurt for the next few weeks.  7 of the top 10 picks have signed already.

Good point. If this were the NFL, Brown would probably hold out on training camp until his contract is signed.
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Re: Deduction: Jaylen Brown is available in trade talks
« Reply #43 on: July 25, 2016, 02:34:54 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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TP for the dirty diapers, lol ;D. It would be pretty crappy to trade Brown now, though, wouldn't it?  I just find the timing to be odd, to say the least.  Did he not have more value before the summer league, lol ;D, and for whom would he be traded, anyway, at this point, now that Wade and Rondo have gone to Chicago.  Griffin?  Cousins?

Why is that? If anything, I think he started showing that he was at least worthy of that 3rd pick, especially his play towards the end of summer league.

Well, in general, wouldn't a draft pick, especially one in the top 3, be valued higher before he hit the court where he can show his warts, etc.?  Maybe it's like opening some sort of collectible that is valued so high because it hadn't been taken out of the packaging?  I'm not sure, but I think that that's the gist of the argument that has been outlined before on here.  Perhaps it's like wanting to trade the Brooklyn pick at the deadline because of what it could be, as opposed to holding onto it and being at the mercy of the lottery? 

Anyway, Brown had two nice fadeaway jumpers and a few great spin moves, but I don't think that    he showed that he was at least worthy of being taken third.  He did play better in the final, what, two games, or was it three?  Either way, I'm trying to like him, and I absolutely want him to be a success, but I'm not there, yet.  He didn't hit a field goal in the first half of either of his first two games, failed to make a basket, at all, in the third, his jumper was slightly better than advertised, I guess, he had great difficulty in finishing around the basket, and his decision making, especially when he quite often opted to dribble, with his head down :o *facepalm*, into 2-3 guys and either invariably fall over or just flat out lose the ball altogether, was hardly impressive to me, sorry :-\.

So basically you're being highly critical of a guy who was injured during summer league, and didn't fail to live up to the expectations? Oh geez bummer, I guess every rookie that fails to dominate summer league is pretty much down the crapper.  :police:

Honestly, I had no expectations for Brown, and even though I didn't, and still don't, like the pick, I went into every game with a completely open mind, regardless of his last performance, eagerly waiting for something, anything, that would say to me, "Ah, now I see why they took him," and aside from the things I mentioned, I wasn't impressed.  In fact, after those first 3 games, I was extremely concerned, and still am, but I'm trying to grin and bear it, lol ;D.

I get that the guy was injured, but he wasn't impressive, to me, before he sustained that injury.  Did that hamper his play, at least for a time, absolutely, but I'm not saying that he's a bust, although, like many on here, I was understandably down after watching him play, to say the least. 

However, I don't think that there is anything wrong with having high expectations for the guy.  This is the best pick we've had in almost 20 years, and, I'm sorry, but he has to at least be an all star to justify his selection at 3, and I don't think that that's unreasonable, at all.  Please, Jaylen Brown, please make me eat my words, lol ;D. Please?
Serious question.  Did you watch Ingram?  Were you impressed?  Did you watch Murray?  Were you impressed?

Basically, we watch our own guy with a hyper eye.  We forget that many other guys in the same boat do the same things.  This summer league won't determine whether he becomes a good player or not.  Still plenty of growth potential.

And here is one national opinion for perspective.  Clearly, many fans are too tough on their own guys.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-summer-league-rookie-rankings-brown-simmons-shine-ingram-erratic/

Ingram was terrible - he did not look at all like a top 10 talent.  Same can be said of Bender.  Both looked hot garbage.  Chriss from memory didn't look too hot either. 

Dunn was far and away the most impressive rookie performer in Summer League, followed by probably Brice Johnson and Thon Maker.  After that you had Hield, Simmons, Brown and Zubac who all looked pretty good. 

Ellenson, Valentine and Murray were kinda solid as well.

Brendan Ingram seriously looked no better then Skal Labissiere.  He was woeful.

That said, we do need to take it in context.  Ingram is 18 years old.  Simmons and Brown are 19.  All three are very young, and all three are going to need time before we can see what they are really capable of. 

I'm not one of those guys who makes excuses for every 18/19 year old player based on their age alone - if a guy is utterly useless and can't play to save his life (e.g. James Young) then it doesn't matter how young you are...

But when you have guys who are 18/19 and who are already showing flashes of serious talent (Simmon's passing ability, Brown's slashing ability, Ingram's shooting ability) then I think you've got to like that from a guy so young and undeveloped. 

Honestly I think Brown was at least as impressive flashed more potential in Summer League this year as Marcus Smart was his rookie year, so hen Marcus Smart did as a rookie, so that is something to consider.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 02:48:36 AM by crimson_stallion »

Re: Deduction: Jaylen Brown is available in trade talks
« Reply #44 on: July 25, 2016, 10:22:42 AM »

Offline heyvik

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With today's signings of Zeller, Green, Jackson, and Bentil, the Celtics are essentially at the cap line (they probably have about $1.5 million left, which isn't enough to do anything of consequence, especially since they already have a room exception of $2.9 million). 

The signing of Brown can have been delayed for two likely reasons.  The first was to preserve cap room for a trade or signing.  While his cap hold is just under $4 million, he will probably sign for about $4.8 million, meaning the delay created an addition $800k in cap room.

The second is that since 1st round draftees cannot be traded for 30 days after they sign, getting Brown under contract would delay a trade by a month.  Furthermore, Brown would have a salary number of zero in a trade, which could also be important in a potential deal.  If Brown is unsigned, it may be because he is being discussed in somewhat advanced trade negotiations.

Therefore, since his delay no longer creates a cap advantage for th Celtics, I conclude that he's being discussed in a trade that Ainge deems a reasonable enough possibility so as to not yet sign Brown.  I will hedge slightly, and concede that he could be signed by end of day Monday, since technically teams aren't allowed to have verbal deals with draft picks and keep the cap room.  But rookie deals are pretty standard fare, so if it goes beyond Monday, I will drop this hedge completely, and declare that assuredly Brown is being discussed.

EDIT:  This is being discussed in another thread.  I started to write the post hours ago, and then got distracted by a series of dirty diapers.  Sigh.

I think you are on to something and it wouldn't surprise me if something happened today. I still don't see how Danny does nothing more - all signs point to it.