Poll

Which player would you rather have?

Jahil Okafor
28 (66.7%)
Bobby Portis
14 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 42

Author Topic: Portis or Okafor?  (Read 3693 times)

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Re: Portis or Okafor?
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2016, 12:49:31 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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jahlil. not close.

May I ask why?  I suppose that I should have added that, unlike Okafor, Portis doesn't have knee problems when I was making my case, lol ;D. Oopsy.

My mom has bad knees. Doesn't make her a bad person, bro.
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Re: Portis or Okafor?
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2016, 01:52:45 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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jahlil. not close.

May I ask why?  I suppose that I should have added that, unlike Okafor, Portis doesn't have knee problems when I was making my case, lol ;D. Oopsy.

My mom has bad knees. Doesn't make her a bad person, bro.

I wasn't saying that that makes him a bad person at all, lol ;D, but I do think that injury history is always important, especially when you consider that he weighs 275 lbs, which probably doesn't  help the strain on said knee unless he were to lose some pounds.  He did he even get hurt, anyway?

Re: Portis or Okafor?
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2016, 01:57:50 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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jahlil. not close.

May I ask why?  I suppose that I should have added that, unlike Okafor, Portis doesn't have knee problems when I was making my case, lol ;D. Oopsy.

My mom has bad knees. Doesn't make her a bad person, bro.

I wasn't saying that that makes him a bad person at all, lol ;D, but I do think that injury history is always important, especially when you consider that he weighs 275 lbs, which probably doesn't  help the strain on said knee unless he were to lose some pounds.  He did he even get hurt, anyway?

I don't know his injury history, but if we can make Sully look good in glimpses, I'm sure Okafor would be an improvement. High on Portis, though. No clue why we took Rozier first.
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Re: Portis or Okafor?
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2016, 02:21:50 AM »

Offline chiken Green

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One Guy is an above average low post Scorer..
One guy Rebounds, rim protects, plays with tenacity and can stretch the floor...

One guy Might be a star if you make him the focal point and build the team around him.
One guy can star in our current system..

give me Portis and it's not even close.

Re: Portis or Okafor?
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2016, 07:25:39 AM »

Offline Who

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I was thinking of J.Okafor at first but that was mostly due to Okafor's reputation.

I'd prefer Portis. He can be a two way player. I can easier see Portis playing big minutes (28-35mpg) on a winning team than Okafor.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2016, 01:52:37 PM by Who »

Re: Portis or Okafor?
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2016, 07:56:31 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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Does it really matter if I prefer Portis? He's not available. I'd prefer LeBron over Okafor too.
This.  The unrealistic theoreticals being posed during this off-season seem like a waste of time.

Re: Portis or Okafor?
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2016, 12:53:26 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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Does it really matter if I prefer Portis? He's not available. I'd prefer LeBron over Okafor too.
This.  The unrealistic theoreticals being posed during this off-season seem like a waste of time.



Ditto

Re: Portis or Okafor?
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2016, 03:21:35 PM »

Online green_bballers13

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I was thinking of J.Okafor at first but that was mostly due to Okafor's reputation.

I'd prefer Portis. He can be a two way player. I can easier see Portis playing big minutes (28-35mpg) on a winning team than Okafor.

My problem with forecasting these guys is that they're both so young. The immediacy to perform in a crowded big man lineup could be the trick for Okafor. I'm not ready to write him off as a dog. JR Smith and Kevin Love just got chips. I've read on here that Demarcus Cousins will never be a winner as well. Not enough data there to prove that Okafor isn't worth the investment. Coach K had glowing recommendations and most unbiased fans think he has an eye for talent.

I would like all three bigs (Cousins, Okafor, and Portis) on the Celtics, though I think Sacremento would require a king's ransom to move Boogie.

Portis and Okafor could be had and I'd imagine the price tag is similar b/c Philly wants to make a consolidating move and find talent for their backcourt, which we have. Chicago might not want to add more guards/wings at this time.

I love the patient approach that the Celtics are taking. No need to make rash decisions in the summer. Let the season play out and more likely than not, our young players will improve and might even settle into larger roles (Smart, Rozier, potentially Hunter, Mickey and Brown).

We're still not certain whether Horford needs another big man to play with him (if rebounding issues exist), or if they can play Crowder at the 4. I like the team as is until they make another calculated, underrated move, (ie IT, Crowder, Bradley resigning). Preserving long term flexibility for a mega-trade down the road should be the focus, in my opinion.

Also, I wouldn't mind seeing a preview of how Okafor handles adversity by having talented players at his position this year in Philly. Its better when potential growing pains are on Philly's dime, not ours.



Re: Portis or Okafor?
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2016, 03:26:16 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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jahlil. not close.

You would rather have Jahlil next to Horford right now than Portis? I'm not so sure. I think Portis is a very good fit next to Horford, and Okafor is not. Okafor has the higher ceiling, but the question is who would you rather have right now with our current team. I think that answer is Portis.
The question was "who would you rather have?" I would rather have jahlil because he has a higher ceiling. I think he has a much higher ceiling.
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Re: Portis or Okafor?
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2016, 03:33:13 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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jahlil. not close.

May I ask why?  I suppose that I should have added that, unlike Okafor, Portis doesn't have knee problems when I was making my case, lol ;D. Oopsy.
yeah you can make a nice argument for Portis. Okafor has a ton of issues. Obviously he cant defend right now, he doesnt rebound like he should, he cant shoot it and hes coming off a knee injury (although Im not sure Id qualify 1 sprained knee as knee problems) and he has character questions. The reason I pick Okafor is purely based on a belief that he can really improve. I think his stroke is nice and we saw his ft% really grow from college to the pros. I think he can develop into an OK midrange guy. I think his athleticism and length are tremendously underrated and under good coaching and in the right environment (Brad and boston) I think he can develop into a solid defender, and an above average shot blocker. The main reason I go Okafor is his incredible ability in the post. In college his footwork was routinely compared to Tim Duncan. His ability to dominate the post at his age is unbelievable. He really has top of the line potential and we are at the point where we have nice players all over, but we need to get some game changers. Okafors ability in the post is such that he could potentially be a game changer. Lastly, I think his passing is tremendously underrated. He was a terrific passer at Duke.

Portis is the safe bet. He was the safe bet last year, and hell probably be it again next year. Portis is also a better fit here. However, Okafor is the guy who could potentially be a difference maker. Portis is gonna be a nice big, Okafor could be a star.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Portis or Okafor?
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2016, 07:47:43 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Does it really matter if I prefer Portis? He's not available. I'd prefer LeBron over Okafor too.
This.  The unrealistic theoreticals being posed during this off-season seem like a waste of time.



Ditto

Yeesh, tough crowd.  Sorry, guys :-\.

Re: Portis or Okafor?
« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2016, 07:58:19 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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jahlil. not close.

May I ask why?  I suppose that I should have added that, unlike Okafor, Portis doesn't have knee problems when I was making my case, lol ;D. Oopsy.
yeah you can make a nice argument for Portis. Okafor has a ton of issues. Obviously he cant defend right now, he doesnt rebound like he should, he cant shoot it and hes coming off a knee injury (although Im not sure Id qualify 1 sprained knee as knee problems) and he has character questions. The reason I pick Okafor is purely based on a belief that he can really improve. I think his stroke is nice and we saw his ft% really grow from college to the pros. I think he can develop into an OK midrange guy. I think his athleticism and length are tremendously underrated and under good coaching and in the right environment (Brad and boston) I think he can develop into a solid defender, and an above average shot blocker. The main reason I go Okafor is his incredible ability in the post. In college his footwork was routinely compared to Tim Duncan. His ability to dominate the post at his age is unbelievable. He really has top of the line potential and we are at the point where we have nice players all over, but we need to get some game changers. Okafors ability in the post is such that he could potentially be a game changer. Lastly, I think his passing is tremendously underrated. He was a terrific passer at Duke.

Portis is the safe bet. He was the safe bet last year, and hell probably be it again next year. Portis is also a better fit here. However, Okafor is the guy who could potentially be a difference maker. Portis is gonna be a nice big, Okafor could be a star.

Regarding Okafor's knee injury, it wasn't a sprain.  He had to have surgery for a slight tear in his right meniscus.  Not good.

As for the rest, I know that he has soon great post moves, but I wouldn't compare him to Tim Duncan in any capacity, lol ;D. Whenever I've seen highlights of his, a great deal of his points aren't actually scored with his back to the basket.  They're a result of his starting at the free throw line/mid-post and using his quickness to his advantage.  He almost reminds me a lot of Julius Randle, in that regard, to be honest, although obviously Okafor has more, and better, post moves. 

I guess my question about Okafor is to whom he compares, in your view, as well as anyone else who feells like/wants to join in, lol ;D. Right now, he looks like a worse rebounding version of Al Jefferson, perhaps, although Big Al did have some great moves even before McHale got his hands on him, lol ;D.

Re: Portis or Okafor?
« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2016, 08:12:34 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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jahlil. not close.

May I ask why?  I suppose that I should have added that, unlike Okafor, Portis doesn't have knee problems when I was making my case, lol ;D. Oopsy.
yeah you can make a nice argument for Portis. Okafor has a ton of issues. Obviously he cant defend right now, he doesnt rebound like he should, he cant shoot it and hes coming off a knee injury (although Im not sure Id qualify 1 sprained knee as knee problems) and he has character questions. The reason I pick Okafor is purely based on a belief that he can really improve. I think his stroke is nice and we saw his ft% really grow from college to the pros. I think he can develop into an OK midrange guy. I think his athleticism and length are tremendously underrated and under good coaching and in the right environment (Brad and boston) I think he can develop into a solid defender, and an above average shot blocker. The main reason I go Okafor is his incredible ability in the post. In college his footwork was routinely compared to Tim Duncan. His ability to dominate the post at his age is unbelievable. He really has top of the line potential and we are at the point where we have nice players all over, but we need to get some game changers. Okafors ability in the post is such that he could potentially be a game changer. Lastly, I think his passing is tremendously underrated. He was a terrific passer at Duke.

Portis is the safe bet. He was the safe bet last year, and hell probably be it again next year. Portis is also a better fit here. However, Okafor is the guy who could potentially be a difference maker. Portis is gonna be a nice big, Okafor could be a star.

Regarding Okafor's knee injury, it wasn't a sprain.  He had to have surgery for a slight tear in his right meniscus.  Not good.

As for the rest, I know that he has soon great post moves, but I wouldn't compare him to Tim Duncan in any capacity, lol ;D. Whenever I've seen highlights of his, a great deal of his points aren't actually scored with his back to the basket.  They're a result of his starting at the free throw line/mid-post and using his quickness to his advantage.  He almost reminds me a lot of Julius Randle, in that regard, to be honest, although obviously Okafor has more, and better, post moves. 

I guess my question about Okafor is to whom he compares, in your view, as well as anyone else who feells like/wants to join in, lol ;D. Right now, he looks like a worse rebounding version of Al Jefferson, perhaps, although Big Al did have some great moves even before McHale got his hands on him, lol ;D.
[dang]. I thought it was a sprain. Either way, didnt Westbrook have the same injury?

On Tim Duncan, comparing him overall to Duncan is absurd, but his footwork is super advanced for someone his age. I dont study bigman footwork enough to really judge it but if you watched any Okafor youve probably heard announcers gushing about the guys footwork in the post.

As for the comps. I dont have any. He is a more unique guy then people give him credit for. The comps you see are Lopez, Monroe, and Big Al. All these guys can score inside but cant defend or shoot. The difference is that Big Al is totally stationary. Okafor has a much higher defensive ceiling in my mind. I also think hes a better natural passer. Monroe is a good interior scorer. Doesnt have Okafors post game, and doesnt have half his offensive potential. Lopez might be the best comp. Difference is that I think Okafor can be a better version of Lopez. Brook had prime devastated by massive foot injuries. Okafor is more athletic and once again, while Lopez is a talented offensive big man, I believe Okafor is far superior in terms of scoring talent. Again, its all got to go right for Okafor to be valuable. The back to the basket center only works in this game if his scoring ability is so dominant that he is able to transcend scheme and fit to control the tempo and flow of the game. He must be so good that he forces teams to adapt for him, rather than forcing his own team to adapt by putting him on the bench. I dont know if Okafor will reach that level. Its honestly unlikely, but people are really overlooking what is one of the most gifted 20 year old post players Ive certainly ever seen. He has an elite elite skill, Portis doesnt. Who were Steph's player comps coming out of school?

I dont mean to suggest Okafor can be steph, but the point is that just because someone with his skillset coming out of school has not historically been super valuable does not mean it cant be.
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Re: Portis or Okafor?
« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2016, 08:36:22 PM »

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Okafor, I think he has a higher ceiling, Portis would fit us better but I think Okafor has the potential of being a superstar scorer who plays adequate defense and rebounds.

People say that he will be the next Big Al, I think he will be vastly superior to prime Big Al.
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Re: Portis or Okafor?
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2016, 09:42:18 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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I thought it was a sprain. Either way, didnt Westbrook have the same injury?

On Tim Duncan, comparing him overall to Duncan is absurd, but his footwork is super advanced for someone his age. I dont study bigman footwork enough to really judge it but if you watched any Okafor youve probably heard announcers gushing about the guys footwork in the post.

As for the comps. I dont have any. He is a more unique guy then people give him credit for. The comps you see are Lopez, Monroe, and Big Al. All these guys can score inside but cant defend or shoot. The difference is that Big Al is totally stationary. Okafor has a much higher defensive ceiling in my mind. I also think hes a better natural passer. Monroe is a good interior scorer. Doesnt have Okafors post game, and doesnt have half his offensive potential. Lopez might be the best comp. Difference is that I think Okafor can be a better version of Lopez. Brook had prime devastated by massive foot injuries. Okafor is more athletic and once again, while Lopez is a talented offensive big man, I believe Okafor is far superior in terms of scoring talent. Again, its all got to go right for Okafor to be valuable. The back to the basket center only works in this game if his scoring ability is so dominant that he is able to transcend scheme and fit to control the tempo and flow of the game. He must be so good that he forces teams to adapt for him, rather than forcing his own team to adapt by putting him on the bench. I dont know if Okafor will reach that level. Its honestly unlikely, but people are really overlooking what is one of the most gifted 20 year old post players Ive certainly ever seen. He has an elite elite skill, Portis doesnt. Who were Steph's player comps coming out of school?

I dont mean to suggest Okafor can be steph, but the point is that just because someone with his skillset coming out of school has not historically been super valuable does not mean it cant be.

I'm probably not qualified to assess his footwork, either, lol, but I do think that you're really underrating Monroe's post game, and he's also a much better passer and rebounder than Okafor, imo.

Also, if Brook Lopez is his ceiling, I'd rather pass, honestly, even without the foot problems.  I do agree that Okafor can be a much better defensive player, potentially, because of his quickness, but as we've seen with James Young, as well as countless others over time, having the tools doesn't automatically mean that that player will become as good of a defender, never mind player, as his physical gifts would suggest.  It's more about his mentality, and some guys just don't have that. 

Now, does that mean that Okafor can't improve?  Of course not, and I'm not casting judgement on who he'll be and what he does during the course of his career, but he didn't really show much, if any, interest, at all, in playing defense while at Duke, iirc, and obviously he didn't do much of anything, defensively, while in Philly last year.  I realize that the situation was, and probably still is, a mess, but the Bulls didn't make the playoffs, either, and yet Portis, right from the first summer league game, showed his fire and desire on both ends, even if he didn't always end up posting and toasting ;), lol ;D. I just like his mentality, in addition to his rebounding and shooting, etc., even though I wasn't on the Bobby Portis bandwagon at the time.  It's not that I thought that he was a bad player, iirc, but I believe that people were talking about his narrow shoulders, although it appears that I was looking at the wrong wingspan measurements for him, which made him seem like he only had slightly longer arms than KO, and I didn't want another guy with t-rex arms, to say the least, lol ;D, but a 7'2 wingspan on a 6'11 guy is absolutely fine.  I still like Rashad Vaughn and Delon Wright, though.

Sorry about getting sidetracked, lol ;D. Upon further examination, it appears that Westbrook and Okafor's injuries were one in the same, even though the former's came as a result of Patrick Beverly, and I'm not sure that Okafor's was caused by anything similar, although I don't think that that's the case, but I'm probably wrong :-\.

I also found every field goal that was made by Okafor in these three videos from DownToBuck (love that guy, lol ;D), and it does look like he has the makings of a promising midrange jumper, and his post moves, of course.  I still think that he dribbles into a lot of them as opposed to playing in a more traditional style with his back to the basket, but hey, it seems to be working, to say the least, lol ;D. At times, though, it just looks like he's playing one-on-one on 2K, lol ;D. His bank shot is also very impressive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXrEHzf9tKw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb1iND8bFLU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOyWKgr-UpE

I'm not sure that I agree with you on how centers and/or power forwards who play with their backs to the basket have to be so dominating as to justify their presence on the court, though.  You don't necessarily have to be Olajuwon, Kareem, McHale, Parish, Shaq, Duncan, or KG, etc., to have an impact on the game, imo.  The reasons why there are so few guys with traditional post games, to me, are because 1). no one teaches guys how to play inside, anymore, and as a guy who was among the tallest guys in my class for a long time, all you're ever told to do out there is to defend and rebound ::). Really?  That's it?  Can I at least get to touch the deng ball once in a while?  I love to pass, and you'll get it back, I promise, lol ;D. It just doesn't make you feel like you're a part of the game, imo :-\. Not that I could ever play, of course, ahahaha ;D, but still, the point stands, and 2). It seems like almost every coach, today, is a former guard who either thinks that big men are invariably stupid, as if they're all like the troll in the dudgeon from Harry Potter, lol, and/or they just flat out don't know how to use them, effectively, probably because the entire game seems to be inverted, as of right now, to me, and maybe that's why all of these 7 footers can handle the ball, now - so that the don't have to rely on a guard to actually get them the ball, lol ;D. What can I say, I guess that I prefer traditional basketball :-\. Sigh.