Ivica Zubac: huge miss by the Celtics

[IDreamCeltics]

I feel totally comfortable pointing out that Zubac is a better player than both Jared Sullenger and Tyler Zeller right now based on his summer league performance as well as his professional career in Europe.  He could step in and play 18 minutes a night as a center for the Celtics immediately.  This is not even a "risky prediction" since we're going to see him do exactly that for the Lakers this year - they currently believe in him so much that they have no plan B at center.

I'm not sure that saying he can step in and play 18 minutes on a 17 win team is the endorsement you think it is.

also, the Lakers undoubtedly had a Plan A that fell through.  Zubac, at best, was Plan B if not Plan C.

only reason they'd have for starting Zubac is if they're trying to tank again to keep their pick away from Philly next year.

Right, it couldn't be that he's an NBA ready center and a quality prospect.     

[Csfan1984]

what does Zizic being better have to do with missing on Zubac.  There is no rule that says Boston couldn't have drafted both.

Yup they should of have both IMO. Team needed a few big man prospects and Yab and Zizic were staying overseas so getting Zubac and having him play this year over Zeller would have been my choice.

[Chris22]

I think it's clear that Danny and Brad believe that the big shot blocking center who can't shoot threes is a relic of the past.

[BitterJim]

Are we really calling draft misses based on summer league?  Not to mention that Zizic didn't play, and could very well have done better than Zubac if he had.  It's one thing to say that you really like Zubac and think he'll be a good player, or that you wished we had taken him, but saying that we screwed up by taking Zizic over him makes no sense

I feel totally comfortable pointing out that Zubac is a better player than both Jared Sullenger and Tyler Zeller right now based on his summer league performance as well as his professional career in Europe.  He could step in and play 18 minutes a night as a center for the Celtics immediately.  This is not even a "risky prediction" since we're going to see him do exactly that for the Lakers this year - they currently believe in him so much that they have no plan B at center.

He's not better than Sully (or likely Zeller) right now.  Heck, he's not better than Sully was his rookie season (unfortunately, Sully never played in Summer league due to the lockout and his back injury).  He may turn out to be a good player, but you have some seriously overinflated expectations for him.  Any 19-year-old rookie that comes into the NBA as a better player than the starting C on a 48 win team would go a [heck] of a lot higher than 33.

Saying that the Lakers have no plan B says more about how bad their GM (who also happens to have taken Zubac... hmmmm...) is than how good of a player Zubac will be

I'm not saying we screwed up by taking Zizic - I'm saying we screwed up by NOT taking Zubac.  Try to wrap your head around the idea that we had eight draft picks and had the opportunity to draft multiple impact players THIS YEAR.  Since the Celtics made repeated claims of exhaustively scouting the Euro prospects I find it hard to believe that they whiffed that badly on a guy who was one of four Euro centers available and lasted into the second round.

 

I keep trying to "wrap [my] head around the idea that we had eight draft picks", but my hand can only count up to 5 so I'm just really struggling 

Are you saying that the Cs should have used all 8 picks? The trade with Memphis could be argued one way or the other, but lets not say that it was a horrible trade because Zubac was available until we at least see what that pick turns into (and what Zubac does against NBA players)

Given that we took a couple of Euros in the first round, I think it's safe to say that Danny had a good idea of what level of prospect Zubac is.  I'm sorry, but I trust Danny and his scouting team more than you.  It's nothing personal (really, it's not), but if Danny didn't think he was worth keeping the 31 and 35 for (not to mention that every GM in the first round passed over him), I'll trust that over some success in the summer league and your view of his career in Europe

If he was some raw prospect who wasn't going to be ready to play a role in the NBA for several years (think Young, Hunter, Mickey, Yabu, Zizic, Bentel, Jackson) I could understand passing on him to avoid having to keep him on the roster, but this a 7'2 260 lbs shot-blocker with a post-game...  He's NBA ready right now and has a skillset that people on this board have been clamoring for for ages. 

There's not really an excuse available that justifies the Celtics trading their two top second round picks away and missing on a player who would A. Make an NBA impact this year, B. Is 19 and has as much potential to improve as any other 19 year old player. C.  Has more trade value today than he did when he was drafted.

I really think you are overrating Zubac to a ridiculous degree.  He may very well turn out to be an NBA ready player, or develop into a real star.  But acting like it's guaranteed to happen is objectively wrong.  Acting like Danny made a big mistake by not drafting him based on a pretty good summer league is a bit premature, too

Furthermore, many people on this board are creaming themselves over the possibility of trading first round picks and prospects for Jahil Okafor who had a similar impact in summer league to Zubac last year.

I know I haven't been "creaming [myself]" over the possibility of trading for Okafor (in fact, I'm against giving up any real assets for him), so I don't see what that has to do with my post, but whatever

You don't honestly think Zubac is on the same level of prospect as Okafor, do you?  I'm not a huge Okafor fan, but that's just ridiculous.  Yes, they both had good (but not great) summer leagues, but that really means nothing. There's a reason Okafor was a consensus #3 pick (arguably should have gone #2), while Zubac went #33 a year later, and it's not because Kupchak is a genius

[max215]

You should never overreact to Summer League, ESPECIALLY when it comes to physically imposing big men.

[BitterJim]

we traded away #31 and #35 for a future clippers first because of the roster crunch. we have no idea of what caliber player (or trade) that pick will yield. and the jury is still out on yabs, zizic. AND zubac. so we don't know if we "whiffed" or not.

The thing is, I actually watched the games.  Obviously Zizic is an unknown because he's not coming over this year.  Yabs has a lot of potential but is a TERRIBLE defender right now.  His awareness on switches, defensive spacing, and help defense from the weak side is atrocious and his ability to get out to the perimeter is pretty marginal.  I'm not saying he won't improve but what I am saying is that Zubac switches well, and has a MUCH better grasp of timing, and spacing.  That's why he ends up in the correct position to body guys up and gets so many blocks.  If you're 7'2 with a 7'4 wingspan and weigh 260 lbs, and you know how to switch and where to put your feet you're going to be a useful NBA defender.

Here's a video analyzing some of the Celtics prospects, skip to 1:50 for Yabusele's defense
https://youtu.be/Py-P1GYABeg it paints a good picture of why the jury's actually in on Yabusele and he's not NBA ready. 

But my basic argument is that A. Zubac is ready to contribute in the NBA right now. B. He's better than players that played meaningful minutes for us last year. C.  He fills a defined NBA role of a legit interior presence with unique size. D.  The Celtics' currently have Yabs, Young, Zizic, Hunter, Mickey, Bentil and Jackson all under contract and none of them will play meaningful NBA minutes this year so it's patently ridiculous to argue that the Celtic's needed to avoid drafting a player because he will take up one NBA roster spot.  You don't avoid quality players so you can stubbornly hold onto bums that that you drafted.  E.  If you needed to trade picks to avoid a roster crunch you could have traded any or all of the four second rounders you had after Zubac was drafted.

Four out of the seven players you named are NOT under contract with the Celtics this year, and it's unlikely that any of them will be offered contracts this year

If Danny could have traded those later picks for the same deal, I'm sure he would have.  It takes two teams to trade, though, and I don't see why anyone would trade a future first for the #35, 45, 51 and 58.

[gift]

Are we really calling draft misses based on summer league?  Not to mention that Zizic didn't play, and could very well have done better than Zubac if he had.  It's one thing to say that you really like Zubac and think he'll be a good player, or that you wished we had taken him, but saying that we screwed up by taking Zizic over him makes no sense

  This is not even a "risky prediction" since we're going to see him do exactly that for the Lakers this year - they currently believe in him so much that they have no plan B at center.

I think for $64 million Timofey Mozgov can take some time away from his point guard duties to log minutes at center.

[slamtheking]

I feel totally comfortable pointing out that Zubac is a better player than both Jared Sullenger and Tyler Zeller right now based on his summer league performance as well as his professional career in Europe.  He could step in and play 18 minutes a night as a center for the Celtics immediately.  This is not even a "risky prediction" since we're going to see him do exactly that for the Lakers this year - they currently believe in him so much that they have no plan B at center.

I'm not sure that saying he can step in and play 18 minutes on a 17 win team is the endorsement you think it is.

also, the Lakers undoubtedly had a Plan A that fell through.  Zubac, at best, was Plan B if not Plan C.

only reason they'd have for starting Zubac is if they're trying to tank again to keep their pick away from Philly next year.

Right, it couldn't be that he's an NBA ready center and a quality prospect.     

If you think a young kid playing Euro ball is NBA ready, good for you.  he'd be the first.

A quality prospect is not the same as being an NBA-ready player.

[pablohoney]

I think the Lakers did well drafting Zubac.  I think the Celtics did an amazing job of trading 2 second round picks in a weak draft full of reaches in the lottery because it is so weak, for a future first.  In a system where 4 draft picks (16, 28, 33 and future first) cannot get you to 9 .... trading 2 picks that are worthless to you at 31 and 35 for a future pick likely to be 15-25 range is a coup.

Zubac is big and crafty but he is also very slow with zero verticle.   I think based on size, athleticism and performance in Europe that it was no question Zizac is a better fit for Celtics.  For a 33 pick in weak draft playing in a summer league full of guys from weak drafts....Zubac looks like a steal.  Could have serious problems defensively against real NBA bigs.  Could be slower than Okafor and a lot less gifted offensively.

[alldaboston]

I feel we're just salty because the lakers got him. If it was any other team we would care less.

Also FWIW, I've had quite a few lakers fans tell me that their GM had Zubac at 16 on their big board.

[cltc5]

When hasn't Danny ainge Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ed Up a draft?

[hwangjini_1]

When hasn't Danny ainge ****ed Up a draft?

this really is a silly post.

[tyrone biggums]

Yea sounds like Robert Upshaw....passsssssss

We still seem to believe we know more than DA and the rest of the GMs in the league...

In terms of trades I want Danny Ainge on my phone making those calls. In terms of draft picks...anyone but Ainge. He's god awful with draft picks. Wasn't a fan of the Brown pick at all. Zizic was the only pick I felt was good for the slot drafted.

[Jon]

Are we really calling draft misses based on summer league?  Not to mention that Zizic didn't play, and could very well have done better than Zubac if he had.  It's one thing to say that you really like Zubac and think he'll be a good player, or that you wished we had taken him, but saying that we screwed up by taking Zizic over him makes no sense

Yes. We are going to judge draft misses based on a few summer league games. Clearly summer league games are indicative of NBA success as we witnessed with our picks last year.

[Dennis_D]

I don't understand people at times. What the OP said is pretty obvious - Zubac should have been drafter much higher than #32 and as the Celtics had four opportunities to draft him and went a different direction each time, he's likely to be one of those players that fans bring up when they want to bash the front office. In the Celtics' defense, a lot of other teams missed on him as well.

The OP should have trotted out some stats to make his case:
Zubac: 23.2 mpg, 10.6 ppg on 64.7% shooting, 7.2 rpg, 0.2 apg, 0.2 spg, 2.6 bpg
Yabusele: 25.4 mpg, 8.0 ppg on 55.2% shooting, 5.4 rpg, 1.8 apg, 1.0 spg, 1.0 bpg
Towns (2015): 31.2 mpg, 12.8 ppg on 39.6% shooting, 7.2 rpg, 2.0 apg, 0.8 spg, 1.8 bpg
Okafor (2015): 30.6 mpg, 15.8 ppg on 44.0% shooting, 8.4 rpg, 1.4 apg, 0.8 spg, 0.8 bpg

Yeah, it's only summer league, but summer league is much more telling of future NBA success than the European leagues that Zubac, Zizic and Yabusele have been playing in.

Everything I read had Zizic as the better of the two.  I think Danny scored a big one with him.

What have you read? Draft Express had them fairly equal:
Zizic: #26 in Mock Draft, #22 in Top 100
Yabusele: #32 in Mock Draft, #32 in Top 100
Zubac: #27 in Mock Draft, #16 in Top 100

NBA Draft.net had Zubac going #23 and had Zizic and Yabusele not drafted in the first round.

do a quick look at draftexpress' "strengths" videos for these two. they both look good (hey, it is after all the strengths videos). but you can see a real difference in style between them. for me, zizic seemed the better fit with the celtics.

Personally, I find the "Weaknesses" videos much more telling. Everyone looks good in the "Strengths" vidoes. Zizic looks awful on offense in his "Weaknesses" video - pathetic face up jumper, can't make a basket outside of 7 feet, black hole when he gets the ball, consistently drives into multiple defenders. The weaknesses in Zubac's "Weaknesses" video seem to be not true or didn't come up in summer league ball. They have him as "not bouncy" so he misses out on blocks. In summer league play, he's been plenty explosive. His lateral quickness on defense looked awful in the "Weaknesses" video but looked fine in summer league. The "Weaknesses" video has him as "not a natural rim protector", whereas he was an great rim protector in summer league. The "Weaknesses" video has him as someone who doesn't space the floor, whereas in summer league he showed a sweet mid-range jump shot.

Yea sounds like Robert Upshaw....passsssssss

Nothing like Robert Upshaw. Upshaw was extremely raw, averaging only 1.4 ppg and 2.2 rpg last summer league. Upshaw was also a head case and got kicked out of the D-League for drug use.

I feel totally comfortable pointing out that Zubac is a better player than both Jared Sullenger and Tyler Zeller right now based on his summer league performance as well as his professional career in Europe

His professional career in Europe? He was unimpressive in his last year in Europe because of contract and injury issues. From Draftexpress:
Returning to Cibona to start the year, but missing all of October and most of November due to a meniscus injury, Zubac's stay with the historic club lasted only a month and change after he got healthy, as financial issues led him to terminate his contract and explore other options after averaging 8.3 points and 3.9 rebounds over 15 minutes per game in seven appearances in the Adriatic League and FIBA Europe Cup. After a Croatian Basketball Federation ruling that ultimately denied his attempt to sign with Cedevita, the Euroleague side that also happens to call Zagreb home, Zubac found himself in limbo for a time before latching on with Mega Leks in Serbia, the prospect-laden team run by his agency, BeoBasket.

Unable to play in the Adriatic League because of the regulations surrounding transfers in that league, Zubac announced his intention to declare for the 2016 NBA Draft while watching from the sideline, as Mega Leks made it all the way to Adriatic League Final, where they fell to Red Star in three games, and eventually finished in third place in the Serbian league after defeating FMP in the playoffs. The talented young big man made his debut in the Serbian League on May 8th, scoring 16 points in 25 minutes in his first competitive action since January 3rd. Averaging 9.9 points and 4.7 rebounds per game in 13 games, Zubac made his presence felt down the stretch before Mega Leks fell to Red Star in the Serbian League semi-finals.

This is not even a "risky prediction" since we're going to see him do exactly that for the Lakers this year - they currently believe in him so much that they have no plan B at center.

Not sure why you say that. The Lakers signed Timofey Mozgov as their starting C, have Tarik Black also at center and can play Larry Nance there in a small ball line up.