Author Topic: Okafor - The Ringer (article)  (Read 30226 times)

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Re: Okafor - The Ringer (article)
« Reply #165 on: July 30, 2016, 05:10:49 PM »

Offline jambr380

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I mean the biggest issue here is the inconsistency. Yes it is factually true something doesn't have the actual value of anything until a trade or sale is completed for it. However that is not how this board works ever (and not how larbrd posts either). He has shared plenty of rumors about player trades or Okafor trades even when he liked the proposed terms more. Now that lots of writers have come out and suggested that the 76ers would trade Okafor any top 6 pick etc, he is pretending it is all nonsense.

I mean I was just reading this article from Simmons new site on proposed trades for Okafor and is it things like Okafor for McDermott and Valentine, Okafor for rozier and our lowest level prospects, Okafor for buddy hield, Okafor for oquinn and a mid first from the Knicks. You know, trades for role players. https://theringer.com/who-wants-jahlil-okafor-303e9d13169#.n1hgn0hcm

You don't see people writing articles suggesting that Chris Paul gets traded for Livingston. These rumors by NBA writers on independent site are not usually completely off. So why would they be in the case of Okafor. It is some conspiracy?
TP. Interesting article.

I am not a fan of Okafor's game but if this writer is correct and the Celtics could land Okafor for some combo of:

Rozier
Mickey
Hunter
Young
Jackson
Bentil
Yabusele
Zizic

and a draft pick like the Celtics 2018 pick, I would be all for it. Its a perfect consolidation trade that doesn't give up any core players or either of the two Brooklyn picks. If Philly would want some second rounders as well, give them to them.

My guess is a trade like this will happen somewhere close to the end of September when Philly really starts feeling the unbalanced roster crunch

I don't see it happening, because the people who get paid to make NBA personnel decisions aren't as nuts as the posters of this board are when it comes to Okafor's value.

But if you could get him for a bag of Ainge's trash, by all means get him.

We won't really know what his value is until he is traded, but I think we can all agree it is no longer that of a top 3 pick.

Just look at this snippet about James Young at the end of the 2015 season -

Quote
"Look, Boston still doesn't know what they have in James Young," a general manager told Bulpett. "But what we do know is that if Young went back to school for another year, we'd be talking about him as a top-10 pick in this draft."

You have to think Ainge is probably kicking himself if Young was worth a top 10 pick in last year's draft. I realize that particular GM probably meant if Young had more seasoning and was just entering the draft rather than toiling in the D-League all year, but that can show you how fast a player's value can plummet.

Philly would be wise go get something decent for him now if they truly don't believe in his future.

Re: Okafor - The Ringer (article)
« Reply #166 on: July 30, 2016, 05:19:38 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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TP - LB for the Bird card. The 90-91 NBA Hoops and Fleer series were classic (Hoops was better). No inserts, but packs could be had for $.50 / pack. I have several complete series' of both types. It's when cards got more expensive that I had to be more selective.
I have the fleer, skybox and upper deck as well from that era.  Sounds like we were collecting at the same time.  We went to a local mall for lunch recently and there was some kind of collectable show going on there.   One of the vendors had a big box full of autographed cards he was selling for $5 each.  I bought these:



Going back even further in the 80s I remember collecting all sorts of trading cards related to movies/cartoons/tv shows.  There's a card shop at Pike Place Market in Seattle that had a bunch of unopened packs of 1990 Hoops they were selling.  I almost bought them for giggles even though I own that entire series.   Instead, my wife and I bought this mess of nostalgia:



Semi-related:  I recommend watching "Stranger Things" on Netflix if you haven't gotten around to it yet. 

Re: Okafor - The Ringer (article)
« Reply #167 on: July 30, 2016, 05:23:27 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I mean the biggest issue here is the inconsistency. Yes it is factually true something doesn't have the actual value of anything until a trade or sale is completed for it. However that is not how this board works ever (and not how larbrd posts either). He has shared plenty of rumors about player trades or Okafor trades even when he liked the proposed terms more. Now that lots of writers have come out and suggested that the 76ers would trade Okafor any top 6 pick etc, he is pretending it is all nonsense.

I mean I was just reading this article from Simmons new site on proposed trades for Okafor and is it things like Okafor for McDermott and Valentine, Okafor for rozier and our lowest level prospects, Okafor for buddy hield, Okafor for oquinn and a mid first from the Knicks. You know, trades for role players. https://theringer.com/who-wants-jahlil-okafor-303e9d13169#.n1hgn0hcm

You don't see people writing articles suggesting that Chris Paul gets traded for Livingston. These rumors by NBA writers on independent site are not usually completely off. So why would they be in the case of Okafor. It is some conspiracy?
TP. Interesting article.

I am not a fan of Okafor's game but if this writer is correct and the Celtics could land Okafor for some combo of:

Rozier
Mickey
Hunter
Young
Jackson
Bentil
Yabusele
Zizic

and a draft pick like the Celtics 2018 pick, I would be all for it. Its a perfect consolidation trade that doesn't give up any core players or either of the two Brooklyn picks. If Philly would want some second rounders as well, give them to them.

My guess is a trade like this will happen somewhere close to the end of September when Philly really starts feeling the unbalanced roster crunch

I don't see it happening, because the people who get paid to make NBA personnel decisions aren't as nuts as the posters of this board are when it comes to Okafor's value.

But if you could get him for a bag of Ainge's trash, by all means get him.

We won't really know what his value is until he is traded, but I think we can all agree it is no longer that of a top 3 pick.

Just look at this snippet about James Young at the end of the 2015 season -

Quote
"Look, Boston still doesn't know what they have in James Young," a general manager told Bulpett. "But what we do know is that if Young went back to school for another year, we'd be talking about him as a top-10 pick in this draft."

You have to think Ainge is probably kicking himself if Young was worth a top 10 pick in last year's draft. I realize that particular GM probably meant if Young had more seasoning and was just entering the draft rather than toiling in the D-League all year, but that can show you how fast a player's value can plummet.

Philly would be wise go get something decent for him now if they truly don't believe in his future.

I'm just curious... do people think Mario Hezonja could be acquired for the likes of Jordan Mickey?  Presumably his trade value is low too.  He didn't show half of what Okafor did as a rookie.   Does that mean Orlando is going to give up on him and trade him away for a 2nd round talent?

Re: Okafor - The Ringer (article)
« Reply #168 on: July 30, 2016, 06:07:50 PM »

Offline GratefulCs

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TP - LB for the Bird card. The 90-91 NBA Hoops and Fleer series were classic (Hoops was better). No inserts, but packs could be had for $.50 / pack. I have several complete series' of both types. It's when cards got more expensive that I had to be more selective.
I have the fleer, skybox and upper deck as well from that era.  Sounds like we were collecting at the same time.  We went to a local mall for lunch recently and there was some kind of collectable show going on there.   One of the vendors had a big box full of autographed cards he was selling for $5 each.  I bought these:



Going back even further in the 80s I remember collecting all sorts of trading cards related to movies/cartoons/tv shows.  There's a card shop at Pike Place Market in Seattle that had a bunch of unopened packs of 1990 Hoops they were selling.  I almost bought them for giggles even though I own that entire series.   Instead, my wife and I bought this mess of nostalgia:



Semi-related:  I recommend watching "Stranger Things" on Netflix if you haven't gotten around to it yet.
sweet collection. TP

and ya, stranger things was fantastic
I trust Danny Ainge

Re: Okafor - The Ringer (article)
« Reply #169 on: July 30, 2016, 06:48:48 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I mean the biggest issue here is the inconsistency. Yes it is factually true something doesn't have the actual value of anything until a trade or sale is completed for it. However that is not how this board works ever (and not how larbrd posts either). He has shared plenty of rumors about player trades or Okafor trades even when he liked the proposed terms more. Now that lots of writers have come out and suggested that the 76ers would trade Okafor any top 6 pick etc, he is pretending it is all nonsense.

I mean I was just reading this article from Simmons new site on proposed trades for Okafor and is it things like Okafor for McDermott and Valentine, Okafor for rozier and our lowest level prospects, Okafor for buddy hield, Okafor for oquinn and a mid first from the Knicks. You know, trades for role players. https://theringer.com/who-wants-jahlil-okafor-303e9d13169#.n1hgn0hcm

You don't see people writing articles suggesting that Chris Paul gets traded for Livingston. These rumors by NBA writers on independent site are not usually completely off. So why would they be in the case of Okafor. It is some conspiracy?
TP. Interesting article.

I am not a fan of Okafor's game but if this writer is correct and the Celtics could land Okafor for some combo of:

Rozier
Mickey
Hunter
Young
Jackson
Bentil
Yabusele
Zizic

and a draft pick like the Celtics 2018 pick, I would be all for it. Its a perfect consolidation trade that doesn't give up any core players or either of the two Brooklyn picks. If Philly would want some second rounders as well, give them to them.

My guess is a trade like this will happen somewhere close to the end of September when Philly really starts feeling the unbalanced roster crunch

I don't see it happening, because the people who get paid to make NBA personnel decisions aren't as nuts as the posters of this board are when it comes to Okafor's value.

But if you could get him for a bag of Ainge's trash, by all means get him.

We won't really know what his value is until he is traded, but I think we can all agree it is no longer that of a top 3 pick.

Just look at this snippet about James Young at the end of the 2015 season -

Quote
"Look, Boston still doesn't know what they have in James Young," a general manager told Bulpett. "But what we do know is that if Young went back to school for another year, we'd be talking about him as a top-10 pick in this draft."

You have to think Ainge is probably kicking himself if Young was worth a top 10 pick in last year's draft. I realize that particular GM probably meant if Young had more seasoning and was just entering the draft rather than toiling in the D-League all year, but that can show you how fast a player's value can plummet.

Philly would be wise go get something decent for him now if they truly don't believe in his future.

I'm just curious... do people think Mario Hezonja could be acquired for the likes of Jordan Mickey?  Presumably his trade value is low too.  He didn't show half of what Okafor did as a rookie.   Does that mean Orlando is going to give up on him and trade him away for a 2nd round talent?
First off let me say that I dont believe for a second that Okafor is available for a bag of balls.

However, the Huzonja situation is different. Mario is from Europe and was a known project. A bit in the Dante Exum mold .Furthermore, Hezonja is still a mystery because he was playing in a 123 rotatin that was pretty deep. Oladipo Peyton Fournier Harris even Gordon.

Okafor also had roster complications but he got on the floor. He played a ton. He also wasnt seen as much of a project. He was supposed to translate immediately. Furthermore, he added injury and character concerns to his list of negatives while Hezonja remained an unkown. I think both guys saw their values drop a bit, but Okafors, Id imagine, dropped a lot further.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Okafor - The Ringer (article)
« Reply #170 on: July 31, 2016, 01:58:09 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I mean the biggest issue here is the inconsistency. Yes it is factually true something doesn't have the actual value of anything until a trade or sale is completed for it. However that is not how this board works ever (and not how larbrd posts either). He has shared plenty of rumors about player trades or Okafor trades even when he liked the proposed terms more. Now that lots of writers have come out and suggested that the 76ers would trade Okafor any top 6 pick etc, he is pretending it is all nonsense.

I mean I was just reading this article from Simmons new site on proposed trades for Okafor and is it things like Okafor for McDermott and Valentine, Okafor for rozier and our lowest level prospects, Okafor for buddy hield, Okafor for oquinn and a mid first from the Knicks. You know, trades for role players. https://theringer.com/who-wants-jahlil-okafor-303e9d13169#.n1hgn0hcm

You don't see people writing articles suggesting that Chris Paul gets traded for Livingston. These rumors by NBA writers on independent site are not usually completely off. So why would they be in the case of Okafor. It is some conspiracy?
TP. Interesting article.

I am not a fan of Okafor's game but if this writer is correct and the Celtics could land Okafor for some combo of:

Rozier
Mickey
Hunter
Young
Jackson
Bentil
Yabusele
Zizic

and a draft pick like the Celtics 2018 pick, I would be all for it. Its a perfect consolidation trade that doesn't give up any core players or either of the two Brooklyn picks. If Philly would want some second rounders as well, give them to them.

My guess is a trade like this will happen somewhere close to the end of September when Philly really starts feeling the unbalanced roster crunch

I don't see it happening, because the people who get paid to make NBA personnel decisions aren't as nuts as the posters of this board are when it comes to Okafor's value.

But if you could get him for a bag of Ainge's trash, by all means get him.

We won't really know what his value is until he is traded, but I think we can all agree it is no longer that of a top 3 pick.

Just look at this snippet about James Young at the end of the 2015 season -

Quote
"Look, Boston still doesn't know what they have in James Young," a general manager told Bulpett. "But what we do know is that if Young went back to school for another year, we'd be talking about him as a top-10 pick in this draft."

You have to think Ainge is probably kicking himself if Young was worth a top 10 pick in last year's draft. I realize that particular GM probably meant if Young had more seasoning and was just entering the draft rather than toiling in the D-League all year, but that can show you how fast a player's value can plummet.

Philly would be wise go get something decent for him now if they truly don't believe in his future.

I'm just curious... do people think Mario Hezonja could be acquired for the likes of Jordan Mickey?  Presumably his trade value is low too.  He didn't show half of what Okafor did as a rookie.   Does that mean Orlando is going to give up on him and trade him away for a 2nd round talent?
First off let me say that I dont believe for a second that Okafor is available for a bag of balls.

However, the Huzonja situation is different. Mario is from Europe and was a known project. A bit in the Dante Exum mold .Furthermore, Hezonja is still a mystery because he was playing in a 123 rotatin that was pretty deep. Oladipo Peyton Fournier Harris even Gordon.

Okafor also had roster complications but he got on the floor. He played a ton. He also wasnt seen as much of a project. He was supposed to translate immediately. Furthermore, he added injury and character concerns to his list of negatives while Hezonja remained an unkown. I think both guys saw their values drop a bit, but Okafors, Id imagine, dropped a lot further.
Where do you get the idea that Okafor wasn't seen as much of a prospect.  Yes, he was rightfully praised for his outstanding post skills, but who said he was a finished product?

I guess a better comparison would be our very own Marcus Smart.  Smart was seen as one of the two most NBA-ready players in his draft class.  He was supposed to come in and make an immediate impact.   Instead, he struggled mightily.   For two straight seasons he's been complete incompetent on the offensive end.  His shooting has been historically bad.  While he shows signs defensively, the advanced stats don't seem to back up the idea that he's dominant on that end.  He lost his starting role and plays on a team with a major log jam at his position.  Not only does he have to contend for minutes with starters Thomas and Bradley, but he has to hold off Rozier, and possibly even Young, Hunter, Gerald Green and Jaylen Brown for guard minutes.    All things considered, his trade value has tanked.  I'm sure other teams around the league think he's "worth" for a couple of their d-leaguers.  Maybe he's worth a late 1st rounder at this point. 

You could argue that Boston would be best off trading Marcus Smart for a role player.  Maybe someone who can help with their rebounding woes.  Maybe a backup 3-point specialist.   But would Boston trade him for that?  Nah.  No point.  There's still a chance Smart develops into a much better player.  We have hope.  If all he's worth is a backup rebounder, d-leaguer, or late 1st, we might as well just hang onto him, keep feeding him his 24-32 minutes per night, and hope his trade value skews upwards.   

Same situation for Philly and Okafor, except that Okafor has shown signs of being a star offensively instead of defensively... and we've only seen a single season of him in a really bizarre situation as opposed to two full seasons of disappointment.  Also, at the moment Okafor still seems to be penciled in as the starter and prime offensive weapon for that team... trading him for a role player makes very little sense.

Re: Okafor - The Ringer (article)
« Reply #171 on: July 31, 2016, 02:42:01 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I mean the biggest issue here is the inconsistency. Yes it is factually true something doesn't have the actual value of anything until a trade or sale is completed for it. However that is not how this board works ever (and not how larbrd posts either). He has shared plenty of rumors about player trades or Okafor trades even when he liked the proposed terms more. Now that lots of writers have come out and suggested that the 76ers would trade Okafor any top 6 pick etc, he is pretending it is all nonsense.

I mean I was just reading this article from Simmons new site on proposed trades for Okafor and is it things like Okafor for McDermott and Valentine, Okafor for rozier and our lowest level prospects, Okafor for buddy hield, Okafor for oquinn and a mid first from the Knicks. You know, trades for role players. https://theringer.com/who-wants-jahlil-okafor-303e9d13169#.n1hgn0hcm

You don't see people writing articles suggesting that Chris Paul gets traded for Livingston. These rumors by NBA writers on independent site are not usually completely off. So why would they be in the case of Okafor. It is some conspiracy?
TP. Interesting article.

I am not a fan of Okafor's game but if this writer is correct and the Celtics could land Okafor for some combo of:

Rozier
Mickey
Hunter
Young
Jackson
Bentil
Yabusele
Zizic

and a draft pick like the Celtics 2018 pick, I would be all for it. Its a perfect consolidation trade that doesn't give up any core players or either of the two Brooklyn picks. If Philly would want some second rounders as well, give them to them.

My guess is a trade like this will happen somewhere close to the end of September when Philly really starts feeling the unbalanced roster crunch

I don't see it happening, because the people who get paid to make NBA personnel decisions aren't as nuts as the posters of this board are when it comes to Okafor's value.

But if you could get him for a bag of Ainge's trash, by all means get him.

We won't really know what his value is until he is traded, but I think we can all agree it is no longer that of a top 3 pick.

Just look at this snippet about James Young at the end of the 2015 season -

Quote
"Look, Boston still doesn't know what they have in James Young," a general manager told Bulpett. "But what we do know is that if Young went back to school for another year, we'd be talking about him as a top-10 pick in this draft."

You have to think Ainge is probably kicking himself if Young was worth a top 10 pick in last year's draft. I realize that particular GM probably meant if Young had more seasoning and was just entering the draft rather than toiling in the D-League all year, but that can show you how fast a player's value can plummet.

Philly would be wise go get something decent for him now if they truly don't believe in his future.

I'm just curious... do people think Mario Hezonja could be acquired for the likes of Jordan Mickey?  Presumably his trade value is low too.  He didn't show half of what Okafor did as a rookie.   Does that mean Orlando is going to give up on him and trade him away for a 2nd round talent?
First off let me say that I dont believe for a second that Okafor is available for a bag of balls.

However, the Huzonja situation is different. Mario is from Europe and was a known project. A bit in the Dante Exum mold .Furthermore, Hezonja is still a mystery because he was playing in a 123 rotatin that was pretty deep. Oladipo Peyton Fournier Harris even Gordon.

Okafor also had roster complications but he got on the floor. He played a ton. He also wasnt seen as much of a project. He was supposed to translate immediately. Furthermore, he added injury and character concerns to his list of negatives while Hezonja remained an unkown. I think both guys saw their values drop a bit, but Okafors, Id imagine, dropped a lot further.
Where do you get the idea that Okafor wasn't seen as much of a prospect.  Yes, he was rightfully praised for his outstanding post skills, but who said he was a finished product?

I guess a better comparison would be our very own Marcus Smart.  Smart was seen as one of the two most NBA-ready players in his draft class.  He was supposed to come in and make an immediate impact.   Instead, he struggled mightily.   For two straight seasons he's been complete incompetent on the offensive end.  His shooting has been historically bad.  While he shows signs defensively, the advanced stats don't seem to back up the idea that he's dominant on that end.  He lost his starting role and plays on a team with a major log jam at his position.  Not only does he have to contend for minutes with starters Thomas and Bradley, but he has to hold off Rozier, and possibly even Young, Hunter, Gerald Green and Jaylen Brown for guard minutes.    All things considered, his trade value has tanked.  I'm sure other teams around the league think he's "worth" for a couple of their d-leaguers.  Maybe he's worth a late 1st rounder at this point. 

You could argue that Boston would be best off trading Marcus Smart for a role player.  Maybe someone who can help with their rebounding woes.  Maybe a backup 3-point specialist.   But would Boston trade him for that?  Nah.  No point.  There's still a chance Smart develops into a much better player.  We have hope.  If all he's worth is a backup rebounder, d-leaguer, or late 1st, we might as well just hang onto him, keep feeding him his 24-32 minutes per night, and hope his trade value skews upwards.   

Same situation for Philly and Okafor, except that Okafor has shown signs of being a star offensively instead of defensively... and we've only seen a single season of him in a really bizarre situation as opposed to two full seasons of disappointment.  Also, at the moment Okafor still seems to be penciled in as the starter and prime offensive weapon for that team... trading him for a role player makes very little sense.
Why must we always talk in absolutes???

Are you implying Okafor was less of a project than Hezonja? this is ridiculous. Okafor, like Smart can still greatly improve, but rookie year okafor is a better predictor of prime okafor than rookie year Hezonja just like rookie year smart was a better predictor for prime smart than rookie year exum was for prime exum.

Okafor isnt a finished product but hes closer to it than Hezonja is.

this is getting ridiculous. Okafor is not perfect. Same with Smart. After Smarts game 4 against the Hawks I made a comment about how he still had a ways to go offensively and got called a hater. why cant we look at players and criticize them without picking a side in these stupid csblog battles. Okafor isnt Lebron James.

Okafor is far from a finished product, but that doesnt make the Hezonja comp a good comp.

It makes no sense for Philly to dump him for spare change, but Philly IS under pressure to move a big soon. If they dont move one by the deadline they are likely to lost Noel or be forced to overpay him. Also Id say, like Rozier and Smart in Boston, the market value of all 3 Philly centers is  below their potential. It is entirely possible that these values could drop further when forced to try to get them all on the court without making them share the court too much. I mean last year we saw both Okafor and Noels values drop and that was with 2 centers. now there is 3 centers and a nonshooting PF and another PF (who can shoot) all battling for minutes. We could easily see all 3 guys drop in value.

If Im Philly Im not moving any of these guys unless I get a legit piece in return, but there is the added element of the pressure to move one that makes this situation less of a no-brainer for Philly.

« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 02:56:04 AM by Ilikesports17 »
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Okafor - The Ringer (article)
« Reply #172 on: July 31, 2016, 05:13:56 AM »

Offline RAAAAAAAANDY

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I think they're going to move Noel. And it's really gonna p--- me off.

Re: Okafor - The Ringer (article)
« Reply #173 on: July 31, 2016, 11:08:00 AM »

Offline td450

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I mean the biggest issue here is the inconsistency. Yes it is factually true something doesn't have the actual value of anything until a trade or sale is completed for it. However that is not how this board works ever (and not how larbrd posts either). He has shared plenty of rumors about player trades or Okafor trades even when he liked the proposed terms more. Now that lots of writers have come out and suggested that the 76ers would trade Okafor any top 6 pick etc, he is pretending it is all nonsense.

I mean I was just reading this article from Simmons new site on proposed trades for Okafor and is it things like Okafor for McDermott and Valentine, Okafor for rozier and our lowest level prospects, Okafor for buddy hield, Okafor for oquinn and a mid first from the Knicks. You know, trades for role players. https://theringer.com/who-wants-jahlil-okafor-303e9d13169#.n1hgn0hcm

You don't see people writing articles suggesting that Chris Paul gets traded for Livingston. These rumors by NBA writers on independent site are not usually completely off. So why would they be in the case of Okafor. It is some conspiracy?
TP. Interesting article.

I am not a fan of Okafor's game but if this writer is correct and the Celtics could land Okafor for some combo of:

Rozier
Mickey
Hunter
Young
Jackson
Bentil
Yabusele
Zizic

and a draft pick like the Celtics 2018 pick, I would be all for it. Its a perfect consolidation trade that doesn't give up any core players or either of the two Brooklyn picks. If Philly would want some second rounders as well, give them to them.

My guess is a trade like this will happen somewhere close to the end of September when Philly really starts feeling the unbalanced roster crunch

I don't see it happening, because the people who get paid to make NBA personnel decisions aren't as nuts as the posters of this board are when it comes to Okafor's value.

But if you could get him for a bag of Ainge's trash, by all means get him.

We won't really know what his value is until he is traded, but I think we can all agree it is no longer that of a top 3 pick.

Just look at this snippet about James Young at the end of the 2015 season -

Quote
"Look, Boston still doesn't know what they have in James Young," a general manager told Bulpett. "But what we do know is that if Young went back to school for another year, we'd be talking about him as a top-10 pick in this draft."

You have to think Ainge is probably kicking himself if Young was worth a top 10 pick in last year's draft. I realize that particular GM probably meant if Young had more seasoning and was just entering the draft rather than toiling in the D-League all year, but that can show you how fast a player's value can plummet.

Philly would be wise go get something decent for him now if they truly don't believe in his future.

I'm just curious... do people think Mario Hezonja could be acquired for the likes of Jordan Mickey?  Presumably his trade value is low too.  He didn't show half of what Okafor did as a rookie.   Does that mean Orlando is going to give up on him and trade him away for a 2nd round talent?
First off let me say that I dont believe for a second that Okafor is available for a bag of balls.

However, the Huzonja situation is different. Mario is from Europe and was a known project. A bit in the Dante Exum mold .Furthermore, Hezonja is still a mystery because he was playing in a 123 rotatin that was pretty deep. Oladipo Peyton Fournier Harris even Gordon.

Okafor also had roster complications but he got on the floor. He played a ton. He also wasnt seen as much of a project. He was supposed to translate immediately. Furthermore, he added injury and character concerns to his list of negatives while Hezonja remained an unkown. I think both guys saw their values drop a bit, but Okafors, Id imagine, dropped a lot further.
Where do you get the idea that Okafor wasn't seen as much of a prospect.  Yes, he was rightfully praised for his outstanding post skills, but who said he was a finished product?

I guess a better comparison would be our very own Marcus Smart.  Smart was seen as one of the two most NBA-ready players in his draft class.  He was supposed to come in and make an immediate impact.   Instead, he struggled mightily.   For two straight seasons he's been complete incompetent on the offensive end.  His shooting has been historically bad.  While he shows signs defensively, the advanced stats don't seem to back up the idea that he's dominant on that end.  He lost his starting role and plays on a team with a major log jam at his position.  Not only does he have to contend for minutes with starters Thomas and Bradley, but he has to hold off Rozier, and possibly even Young, Hunter, Gerald Green and Jaylen Brown for guard minutes.    All things considered, his trade value has tanked.  I'm sure other teams around the league think he's "worth" for a couple of their d-leaguers.  Maybe he's worth a late 1st rounder at this point. 

You could argue that Boston would be best off trading Marcus Smart for a role player.  Maybe someone who can help with their rebounding woes.  Maybe a backup 3-point specialist.   But would Boston trade him for that?  Nah.  No point.  There's still a chance Smart develops into a much better player.  We have hope.  If all he's worth is a backup rebounder, d-leaguer, or late 1st, we might as well just hang onto him, keep feeding him his 24-32 minutes per night, and hope his trade value skews upwards.   

Same situation for Philly and Okafor, except that Okafor has shown signs of being a star offensively instead of defensively... and we've only seen a single season of him in a really bizarre situation as opposed to two full seasons of disappointment.  Also, at the moment Okafor still seems to be penciled in as the starter and prime offensive weapon for that team... trading him for a role player makes very little sense.
Marcus Smart is in shape, plays hard and works hard, is ultra competitive and shows signs of a decent basketball IQ. Okafur shows none of those things. Effort and intensity matter. Players without those traits usually don't improve much.

There is a place in the modern NBA game for a combo guard that is inefficient offensively but is a dominant defender and strong rebounder. There is no place in the modern NBA for centers that can't play defense and can't stretch the floor at all.



Re: Okafor - The Ringer (article)
« Reply #174 on: July 31, 2016, 12:34:08 PM »

Offline Smitty77

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I think they're going to move Noel. And it's really gonna p--- me off.

WHY??  Are you a Philly fan?

Smitty77

Re: Okafor - The Ringer (article)
« Reply #175 on: July 31, 2016, 02:10:08 PM »

Offline RAAAAAAAANDY

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I think they're going to move Noel. And it's really gonna p--- me off.

WHY??  Are you a Philly fan?

Smitty77

 8)

Re: Okafor - The Ringer (article)
« Reply #176 on: July 31, 2016, 04:32:43 PM »

Offline tankcity!

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I mean the biggest issue here is the inconsistency. Yes it is factually true something doesn't have the actual value of anything until a trade or sale is completed for it. However that is not how this board works ever (and not how larbrd posts either). He has shared plenty of rumors about player trades or Okafor trades even when he liked the proposed terms more. Now that lots of writers have come out and suggested that the 76ers would trade Okafor any top 6 pick etc, he is pretending it is all nonsense.

I mean I was just reading this article from Simmons new site on proposed trades for Okafor and is it things like Okafor for McDermott and Valentine, Okafor for rozier and our lowest level prospects, Okafor for buddy hield, Okafor for oquinn and a mid first from the Knicks. You know, trades for role players. https://theringer.com/who-wants-jahlil-okafor-303e9d13169#.n1hgn0hcm

You don't see people writing articles suggesting that Chris Paul gets traded for Livingston. These rumors by NBA writers on independent site are not usually completely off. So why would they be in the case of Okafor. It is some conspiracy?
TP. Interesting article.

I am not a fan of Okafor's game but if this writer is correct and the Celtics could land Okafor for some combo of:

Rozier
Mickey
Hunter
Young
Jackson
Bentil
Yabusele
Zizic

and a draft pick like the Celtics 2018 pick, I would be all for it. Its a perfect consolidation trade that doesn't give up any core players or either of the two Brooklyn picks. If Philly would want some second rounders as well, give them to them.

My guess is a trade like this will happen somewhere close to the end of September when Philly really starts feeling the unbalanced roster crunch

I don't see it happening, because the people who get paid to make NBA personnel decisions aren't as nuts as the posters of this board are when it comes to Okafor's value.

But if you could get him for a bag of Ainge's trash, by all means get him.

We won't really know what his value is until he is traded, but I think we can all agree it is no longer that of a top 3 pick.

Just look at this snippet about James Young at the end of the 2015 season -

Quote
"Look, Boston still doesn't know what they have in James Young," a general manager told Bulpett. "But what we do know is that if Young went back to school for another year, we'd be talking about him as a top-10 pick in this draft."

You have to think Ainge is probably kicking himself if Young was worth a top 10 pick in last year's draft. I realize that particular GM probably meant if Young had more seasoning and was just entering the draft rather than toiling in the D-League all year, but that can show you how fast a player's value can plummet.

Philly would be wise go get something decent for him now if they truly don't believe in his future.

I'm just curious... do people think Mario Hezonja could be acquired for the likes of Jordan Mickey?  Presumably his trade value is low too.  He didn't show half of what Okafor did as a rookie.   Does that mean Orlando is going to give up on him and trade him away for a 2nd round talent?
First off let me say that I dont believe for a second that Okafor is available for a bag of balls.

However, the Huzonja situation is different. Mario is from Europe and was a known project. A bit in the Dante Exum mold .Furthermore, Hezonja is still a mystery because he was playing in a 123 rotatin that was pretty deep. Oladipo Peyton Fournier Harris even Gordon.

Okafor also had roster complications but he got on the floor. He played a ton. He also wasnt seen as much of a project. He was supposed to translate immediately. Furthermore, he added injury and character concerns to his list of negatives while Hezonja remained an unkown. I think both guys saw their values drop a bit, but Okafors, Id imagine, dropped a lot further.
Where do you get the idea that Okafor wasn't seen as much of a prospect.  Yes, he was rightfully praised for his outstanding post skills, but who said he was a finished product?

I guess a better comparison would be our very own Marcus Smart.  Smart was seen as one of the two most NBA-ready players in his draft class.  He was supposed to come in and make an immediate impact.   Instead, he struggled mightily.   For two straight seasons he's been complete incompetent on the offensive end.  His shooting has been historically bad.  While he shows signs defensively, the advanced stats don't seem to back up the idea that he's dominant on that end.  He lost his starting role and plays on a team with a major log jam at his position.  Not only does he have to contend for minutes with starters Thomas and Bradley, but he has to hold off Rozier, and possibly even Young, Hunter, Gerald Green and Jaylen Brown for guard minutes.    All things considered, his trade value has tanked.  I'm sure other teams around the league think he's "worth" for a couple of their d-leaguers.  Maybe he's worth a late 1st rounder at this point. 

You could argue that Boston would be best off trading Marcus Smart for a role player.  Maybe someone who can help with their rebounding woes.  Maybe a backup 3-point specialist.   But would Boston trade him for that?  Nah.  No point.  There's still a chance Smart develops into a much better player.  We have hope.  If all he's worth is a backup rebounder, d-leaguer, or late 1st, we might as well just hang onto him, keep feeding him his 24-32 minutes per night, and hope his trade value skews upwards.   

Same situation for Philly and Okafor, except that Okafor has shown signs of being a star offensively instead of defensively... and we've only seen a single season of him in a really bizarre situation as opposed to two full seasons of disappointment.  Also, at the moment Okafor still seems to be penciled in as the starter and prime offensive weapon for that team... trading him for a role player makes very little sense.

What you are saying is true. But again, Philly has no leverage. I mean a deal would be done if someone was willing to offer a good package for Okafor. Clearly, Philly can wait, but his value will only descend as he plays on a team with no spacing. Look at Noel for example, I think his performance would be much greater on a team like the Celtics than Philly and so would his value. You can make all these arguments about these players talents, but the league doesn't care because Philly will have to trade Noel. If they do not trade Noel this year, then someone will offer him the max, Philly will match and they will be stuck with him. And they will have to do the same with Okafor and Embiid eventually. So that is my point and I don't really believe there is a counter to it. Philly has to eventually part of with these pieces or else they will have to pay for them and the team won't win either in the future if they keep all these centers and waste their financial resources on them.

Re: Okafor - The Ringer (article)
« Reply #177 on: July 31, 2016, 04:49:07 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Love the Cs autographed cards - I will have to have to check ebay for some of those. Back in the day, getting an autographed insert card was faint-worthy, but today, they are worth much more sentimentally than in actual dollars. I am also a big fan of the Nintendo, TMNT, Batman, and Bill and Ted's cards. For some reason, I had an inordinate number of Dick Tracy cards, as well.

Your take on Okafor's value isn't necessarily wrong, I was just stating that values of players are fluid. Okafor doesn't need to be a superstar for him to have a successful career, he just will likely need to become a more dynamic defensive player. If he ends up as Al J or Kanter, that is not the end of the world.


Re: Okafor - The Ringer (article)
« Reply #178 on: July 31, 2016, 06:27:05 PM »

Online celticsclay

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I mean the biggest issue here is the inconsistency. Yes it is factually true something doesn't have the actual value of anything until a trade or sale is completed for it. However that is not how this board works ever (and not how larbrd posts either). He has shared plenty of rumors about player trades or Okafor trades even when he liked the proposed terms more. Now that lots of writers have come out and suggested that the 76ers would trade Okafor any top 6 pick etc, he is pretending it is all nonsense.

I mean I was just reading this article from Simmons new site on proposed trades for Okafor and is it things like Okafor for McDermott and Valentine, Okafor for rozier and our lowest level prospects, Okafor for buddy hield, Okafor for oquinn and a mid first from the Knicks. You know, trades for role players. https://theringer.com/who-wants-jahlil-okafor-303e9d13169#.n1hgn0hcm

You don't see people writing articles suggesting that Chris Paul gets traded for Livingston. These rumors by NBA writers on independent site are not usually completely off. So why would they be in the case of Okafor. It is some conspiracy?
TP. Interesting article.

I am not a fan of Okafor's game but if this writer is correct and the Celtics could land Okafor for some combo of:

Rozier
Mickey
Hunter
Young
Jackson
Bentil
Yabusele
Zizic

and a draft pick like the Celtics 2018 pick, I would be all for it. Its a perfect consolidation trade that doesn't give up any core players or either of the two Brooklyn picks. If Philly would want some second rounders as well, give them to them.

My guess is a trade like this will happen somewhere close to the end of September when Philly really starts feeling the unbalanced roster crunch

I don't see it happening, because the people who get paid to make NBA personnel decisions aren't as nuts as the posters of this board are when it comes to Okafor's value.

But if you could get him for a bag of Ainge's trash, by all means get him.

We won't really know what his value is until he is traded, but I think we can all agree it is no longer that of a top 3 pick.

Just look at this snippet about James Young at the end of the 2015 season -

Quote
"Look, Boston still doesn't know what they have in James Young," a general manager told Bulpett. "But what we do know is that if Young went back to school for another year, we'd be talking about him as a top-10 pick in this draft."

You have to think Ainge is probably kicking himself if Young was worth a top 10 pick in last year's draft. I realize that particular GM probably meant if Young had more seasoning and was just entering the draft rather than toiling in the D-League all year, but that can show you how fast a player's value can plummet.

Philly would be wise go get something decent for him now if they truly don't believe in his future.

I'm just curious... do people think Mario Hezonja could be acquired for the likes of Jordan Mickey?  Presumably his trade value is low too.  He didn't show half of what Okafor did as a rookie.   Does that mean Orlando is going to give up on him and trade him away for a 2nd round talent?
First off let me say that I dont believe for a second that Okafor is available for a bag of balls.

However, the Huzonja situation is different. Mario is from Europe and was a known project. A bit in the Dante Exum mold .Furthermore, Hezonja is still a mystery because he was playing in a 123 rotatin that was pretty deep. Oladipo Peyton Fournier Harris even Gordon.

Okafor also had roster complications but he got on the floor. He played a ton. He also wasnt seen as much of a project. He was supposed to translate immediately. Furthermore, he added injury and character concerns to his list of negatives while Hezonja remained an unkown. I think both guys saw their values drop a bit, but Okafors, Id imagine, dropped a lot further.
Where do you get the idea that Okafor wasn't seen as much of a prospect.  Yes, he was rightfully praised for his outstanding post skills, but who said he was a finished product?

I guess a better comparison would be our very own Marcus Smart.  Smart was seen as one of the two most NBA-ready players in his draft class.  He was supposed to come in and make an immediate impact.   Instead, he struggled mightily.   For two straight seasons he's been complete incompetent on the offensive end.  His shooting has been historically bad.  While he shows signs defensively, the advanced stats don't seem to back up the idea that he's dominant on that end.  He lost his starting role and plays on a team with a major log jam at his position.  Not only does he have to contend for minutes with starters Thomas and Bradley, but he has to hold off Rozier, and possibly even Young, Hunter, Gerald Green and Jaylen Brown for guard minutes.    All things considered, his trade value has tanked.  I'm sure other teams around the league think he's "worth" for a couple of their d-leaguers.  Maybe he's worth a late 1st rounder at this point. 

You could argue that Boston would be best off trading Marcus Smart for a role player.  Maybe someone who can help with their rebounding woes.  Maybe a backup 3-point specialist.   But would Boston trade him for that?  Nah.  No point.  There's still a chance Smart develops into a much better player.  We have hope.  If all he's worth is a backup rebounder, d-leaguer, or late 1st, we might as well just hang onto him, keep feeding him his 24-32 minutes per night, and hope his trade value skews upwards.   

Same situation for Philly and Okafor, except that Okafor has shown signs of being a star offensively instead of defensively... and we've only seen a single season of him in a really bizarre situation as opposed to two full seasons of disappointment.  Also, at the moment Okafor still seems to be penciled in as the starter and prime offensive weapon for that team... trading him for a role player makes very little sense.

Lol lets bookmark this as the time larbrd finally fully lost it.  :laugh:

Re: Okafor - The Ringer (article)
« Reply #179 on: July 31, 2016, 07:18:09 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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I mean the biggest issue here is the inconsistency. Yes it is factually true something doesn't have the actual value of anything until a trade or sale is completed for it. However that is not how this board works ever (and not how larbrd posts either). He has shared plenty of rumors about player trades or Okafor trades even when he liked the proposed terms more. Now that lots of writers have come out and suggested that the 76ers would trade Okafor any top 6 pick etc, he is pretending it is all nonsense.

I mean I was just reading this article from Simmons new site on proposed trades for Okafor and is it things like Okafor for McDermott and Valentine, Okafor for rozier and our lowest level prospects, Okafor for buddy hield, Okafor for oquinn and a mid first from the Knicks. You know, trades for role players. https://theringer.com/who-wants-jahlil-okafor-303e9d13169#.n1hgn0hcm

You don't see people writing articles suggesting that Chris Paul gets traded for Livingston. These rumors by NBA writers on independent site are not usually completely off. So why would they be in the case of Okafor. It is some conspiracy?
TP. Interesting article.

I am not a fan of Okafor's game but if this writer is correct and the Celtics could land Okafor for some combo of:

Rozier
Mickey
Hunter
Young
Jackson
Bentil
Yabusele
Zizic

and a draft pick like the Celtics 2018 pick, I would be all for it. Its a perfect consolidation trade that doesn't give up any core players or either of the two Brooklyn picks. If Philly would want some second rounders as well, give them to them.

My guess is a trade like this will happen somewhere close to the end of September when Philly really starts feeling the unbalanced roster crunch

I don't see it happening, because the people who get paid to make NBA personnel decisions aren't as nuts as the posters of this board are when it comes to Okafor's value.

But if you could get him for a bag of Ainge's trash, by all means get him.

We won't really know what his value is until he is traded, but I think we can all agree it is no longer that of a top 3 pick.

Just look at this snippet about James Young at the end of the 2015 season -

Quote
"Look, Boston still doesn't know what they have in James Young," a general manager told Bulpett. "But what we do know is that if Young went back to school for another year, we'd be talking about him as a top-10 pick in this draft."

You have to think Ainge is probably kicking himself if Young was worth a top 10 pick in last year's draft. I realize that particular GM probably meant if Young had more seasoning and was just entering the draft rather than toiling in the D-League all year, but that can show you how fast a player's value can plummet.

Philly would be wise go get something decent for him now if they truly don't believe in his future.

I'm just curious... do people think Mario Hezonja could be acquired for the likes of Jordan Mickey?  Presumably his trade value is low too.  He didn't show half of what Okafor did as a rookie.   Does that mean Orlando is going to give up on him and trade him away for a 2nd round talent?
First off let me say that I dont believe for a second that Okafor is available for a bag of balls.

However, the Huzonja situation is different. Mario is from Europe and was a known project. A bit in the Dante Exum mold .Furthermore, Hezonja is still a mystery because he was playing in a 123 rotatin that was pretty deep. Oladipo Peyton Fournier Harris even Gordon.

Okafor also had roster complications but he got on the floor. He played a ton. He also wasnt seen as much of a project. He was supposed to translate immediately. Furthermore, he added injury and character concerns to his list of negatives while Hezonja remained an unkown. I think both guys saw their values drop a bit, but Okafors, Id imagine, dropped a lot further.
Where do you get the idea that Okafor wasn't seen as much of a prospect.  Yes, he was rightfully praised for his outstanding post skills, but who said he was a finished product?

I guess a better comparison would be our very own Marcus Smart.  Smart was seen as one of the two most NBA-ready players in his draft class.  He was supposed to come in and make an immediate impact.   Instead, he struggled mightily.   For two straight seasons he's been complete incompetent on the offensive end.  His shooting has been historically bad.  While he shows signs defensively, the advanced stats don't seem to back up the idea that he's dominant on that end.  He lost his starting role and plays on a team with a major log jam at his position.  Not only does he have to contend for minutes with starters Thomas and Bradley, but he has to hold off Rozier, and possibly even Young, Hunter, Gerald Green and Jaylen Brown for guard minutes.    All things considered, his trade value has tanked.  I'm sure other teams around the league think he's "worth" for a couple of their d-leaguers.  Maybe he's worth a late 1st rounder at this point. 

You could argue that Boston would be best off trading Marcus Smart for a role player.  Maybe someone who can help with their rebounding woes.  Maybe a backup 3-point specialist.   But would Boston trade him for that?  Nah.  No point.  There's still a chance Smart develops into a much better player.  We have hope.  If all he's worth is a backup rebounder, d-leaguer, or late 1st, we might as well just hang onto him, keep feeding him his 24-32 minutes per night, and hope his trade value skews upwards.   

Same situation for Philly and Okafor, except that Okafor has shown signs of being a star offensively instead of defensively... and we've only seen a single season of him in a really bizarre situation as opposed to two full seasons of disappointment.  Also, at the moment Okafor still seems to be penciled in as the starter and prime offensive weapon for that team... trading him for a role player makes very little sense.

Lol lets bookmark this as the time larbrd finally fully lost it.  :laugh:
yes, this is a leap off the deep end even for lb.
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