Author Topic: Abdel Nader (merged threads)  (Read 19286 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
« Reply #150 on: March 19, 2018, 04:11:45 PM »

Offline Eddie20

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7811
  • Tommy Points: 833
With the luxury tax the Cs are going to have Nader level players at the end of the bench for years to come.
Nader is making $1.2 million. In 2007, five Celtics made $1.2 million or less (Rondo, Pollard, Powe, Pruitt, Davis), and Eddie House made $1.5 million. Even allowing for cap inflation and all that, if the end of the bench has to be full of "Nader-level players, this means Ainge isn't doing his job.

Yep. The max cap hit for a vet minimum deal is 1.47M. The Nader savings isn't much.

Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
« Reply #151 on: March 19, 2018, 04:12:13 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15397
  • Tommy Points: 979
Quote
I watched Nader play a ton in Maine. His problem with the C's isn't his athleticism or his skill. It's his indecisiveness, he looks afraid to make mistakes. In Maine he was playing without thinking, just like Rozier did in his stints for the Red Claws.

I disagree he has slow feet.   Nifty offensive player and skilled but lacking top tier athletic ability.  Agility and speed should be where he trains as he needs improvement in this area.   Some of it could be hesitation but some of it is slow feet and lack of foot speed.

Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
« Reply #152 on: March 19, 2018, 04:14:35 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17306
  • Tommy Points: 1236
Quote
I watched Nader play a ton in Maine. His problem with the C's isn't his athleticism or his skill. It's his indecisiveness, he looks afraid to make mistakes. In Maine he was playing without thinking, just like Rozier did in his stints for the Red Claws.

I disagree he has slow feet.   Nifty offensive player and skilled but lacking top tier athletic ability.  Agility and speed should be where he trains as he needs improvement in this area.   Some of it could be hesitation but some of it is slow feet and lack of foot speed.
Can you please elaborate which skill he possesses (other than the ability to hit a three when there's noone in the same zip code) ?
(Formerly) managing Rilski Sportist to glory at http://www.buzzerbeater.com

Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
« Reply #153 on: March 19, 2018, 04:18:13 PM »

Offline Eddie20

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7811
  • Tommy Points: 833
Quote
I watched Nader play a ton in Maine. His problem with the C's isn't his athleticism or his skill. It's his indecisiveness, he looks afraid to make mistakes. In Maine he was playing without thinking, just like Rozier did in his stints for the Red Claws.

I disagree he has slow feet.   Nifty offensive player and skilled but lacking top tier athletic ability.  Agility and speed should be where he trains as he needs improvement in this area.   Some of it could be hesitation but some of it is slow feet and lack of foot speed.
Can you please elaborate which skill he possesses (other than the ability to hit a three when there's noone in the same zip code) ?

He's shooting a nifty 36% from the field while averaging 0.6 apg vs 0.7 tov and 0.8 fouls.

Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
« Reply #154 on: March 19, 2018, 04:42:04 PM »

Offline CFAN38

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3607
  • Tommy Points: 287
With the luxury tax the Cs are going to have Nader level players at the end of the bench for years to come.
Nader is making $1.2 million. In 2007, five Celtics made $1.2 million or less (Rondo, Pollard, Powe, Pruitt, Davis), and Eddie House made $1.5 million. Even allowing for cap inflation and all that, if the end of the bench has to be full of "Nader-level players, this means Ainge isn't doing his job.

Yep. The max cap hit for a vet minimum deal is 1.47M. The Nader savings isn't much.

The salary cap has almost doubled since 07 but that really isn't the point. The reason we will likely see undrafted rookies/second round picks making up the end of the bench is to combat the luxury tax. Next season the Cs will be right at the line and because of the repeat tax penalty it is going to be really important to avoid it next year. Once the Cs have to start paying Brown and Tatum the Cs will be firmly in the luxury tax and likely more willing to spend money on players outside the rotation. This is when we will see vets signed for the 12-15 roster spots. For at least 1 more year every dollar counts when staying under that line.

I personally like the idea of using the 14th and 15 roster spots to try to strike gold on a player. Draft a guy with a higher upside or a clear NBA skill in the late second or sign undrafted. Sign them to 2 way deals. Then the next year you let them compete for the 14th and 15th spot. Sign them to a Nader like deal and you effectively have control of a player for 5 years.   

Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
« Reply #155 on: March 19, 2018, 05:08:23 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • Global Moderator
  • Walter Brown
  • ********************************
  • Posts: 32251
  • Tommy Points: 5294
With the luxury tax the Cs are going to have Nader level players at the end of the bench for years to come.
Nader is making $1.2 million. In 2007, five Celtics made $1.2 million or less (Rondo, Pollard, Powe, Pruitt, Davis), and Eddie House made $1.5 million. Even allowing for cap inflation and all that, if the end of the bench has to be full of "Nader-level players, this means Ainge isn't doing his job.

Yep. The max cap hit for a vet minimum deal is 1.47M. The Nader savings isn't much.

The salary cap has almost doubled since 07 but that really isn't the point. The reason we will likely see undrafted rookies/second round picks making up the end of the bench is to combat the luxury tax. Next season the Cs will be right at the line and because of the repeat tax penalty it is going to be really important to avoid it next year. Once the Cs have to start paying Brown and Tatum the Cs will be firmly in the luxury tax and likely more willing to spend money on players outside the rotation. This is when we will see vets signed for the 12-15 roster spots. For at least 1 more year every dollar counts when staying under that line.

I personally like the idea of using the 14th and 15 roster spots to try to strike gold on a player. Draft a guy with a higher upside or a clear NBA skill in the late second or sign undrafted. Sign them to 2 way deals. Then the next year you let them compete for the 14th and 15th spot. Sign them to a Nader like deal and you effectively have control of a player for 5 years.   
You're missing the point. The NBA subsidizes vet min contracts and so whether you're a 10 year vet getting $2.4 million or a 5 year vet getti g $1.6 million, the salary only counts as $1.47 million against the cap and for luxury tax purposes. So the savings in having rookies at the end of the bench versus vet mins are not so great in luxury tax money as to prevent a GM from signing much better vets on the min as compared to G league level players.

Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
« Reply #156 on: March 19, 2018, 05:35:41 PM »

Offline Granath

  • NCE
  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2114
  • Tommy Points: 542
I don't understand the amount of attention Nader gets from some on this board. He was the 58th pick in his draft, is an NBA rookie, and making about 1% of the salary cap. He's not a great or even good player right now but every time I watch him he plays hard, stays engaged on defense and doesn't disrupt the offense. He's no star-in-the-making but I don't see any reason he can't grow into a reliable bench wing.

Over these last 3 games where he's had to step up, I though he's looked ok (going 2-8 at the line last night notwithstanding).
15th guy on the roster, pushed into a role because we have so many injuries.  The over-reaction to some missed free throws is ridiculous, but unfortunately all too in character for many on this board.
Given that every time I've seen Nader play, he looks like he lacks the requisite agility and skill to play in the NBA, he could have at least made a couple of free throws. He's the 15th man on an NBA roster, not a weekend warrior at the local YMCA.

So true. Nader apologists think it's okay for him to be abysmal because he's the 15th guy on the roster.

It's unfortunate that we are stuck giving minutes to the Trash Brothers (Nader and Semi) when we could've filled those spots with veteran players who could help us win now.
Here's a short illustrative example on roster building.

10th-15th men on this year's Boston Celtics (based on total mins played): Ojeleye, Larkin, Nader, Monroe, Yabusele, (random G-League dude).

10th-15th men on your 2007-2008 Celtics: Powe, Cassell, PJ Brown, Scalabrine, Pollard, Pruitt.

I sense a bit of discrepancy in terms of talent and experience there.

That you do and that is intentional. The 2008 Cs were built to win now and not later. There was no long-term plan for them. Ainge figured they had 3 years, tops, before that roster was done and only due to the development of Rondo was that timeline extended. So Cassell, Brown, Pollard and Scal had extensive experience to support that roster. Of course, many of those guys were at the tail end of their careers and were more important in their name than in their game. But they knew how professional basketball was played.

This roster is built for a much longer window. Horford and Baynes are the only players over 28. It is the 5th youngest roster, only .03 years older than Philly and .13 years older than the Lakers. Think about that. The wins for teams with rosters between 24 and 25 years old is (Chi), 19 (Pho), 31 (Lal), 38 (Phi), 47 (Bos), 44 (Por) and 38 (Den). This team is built for a long-term run. It's telling why Danny took on so many youngsters this year - he really didn't expect to win it all. Better to get them some experience, make their mistakes, grow into better players and have 5-10 year window to compete for multiple championships.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
« Reply #157 on: March 19, 2018, 07:22:42 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15397
  • Tommy Points: 979
Quote
Can you please elaborate which skill he possesses (other than the ability to hit a three when there's noone in the same zip code) ?

I think he is a ball hog, but he has had some moves to get to the bucket.  He just can't capitalize and make the shot.   This is calling filling the lane and you would be surprised how many guys do not do it properly and make the defender have to make a choice with their positioning.

http://www.nba.com/video/2017/10/18/0021700007-mil-bos-play-3

But as a guy who played some basketball past high school, there are times when I think he has some skills but it all goes away when I see a complete lack of effort on defense.  Ainge saw something he liked though.   But I am definitely in the we should find someone who can contribute better camp. 

Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
« Reply #158 on: March 19, 2018, 09:13:56 PM »

Offline Eddie20

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7811
  • Tommy Points: 833
I don't understand the amount of attention Nader gets from some on this board. He was the 58th pick in his draft, is an NBA rookie, and making about 1% of the salary cap. He's not a great or even good player right now but every time I watch him he plays hard, stays engaged on defense and doesn't disrupt the offense. He's no star-in-the-making but I don't see any reason he can't grow into a reliable bench wing.

Over these last 3 games where he's had to step up, I though he's looked ok (going 2-8 at the line last night notwithstanding).
15th guy on the roster, pushed into a role because we have so many injuries.  The over-reaction to some missed free throws is ridiculous, but unfortunately all too in character for many on this board.
Given that every time I've seen Nader play, he looks like he lacks the requisite agility and skill to play in the NBA, he could have at least made a couple of free throws. He's the 15th man on an NBA roster, not a weekend warrior at the local YMCA.

So true. Nader apologists think it's okay for him to be abysmal because he's the 15th guy on the roster.

It's unfortunate that we are stuck giving minutes to the Trash Brothers (Nader and Semi) when we could've filled those spots with veteran players who could help us win now.
Here's a short illustrative example on roster building.

10th-15th men on this year's Boston Celtics (based on total mins played): Ojeleye, Larkin, Nader, Monroe, Yabusele, (random G-League dude).

10th-15th men on your 2007-2008 Celtics: Powe, Cassell, PJ Brown, Scalabrine, Pollard, Pruitt.

I sense a bit of discrepancy in terms of talent and experience there.

That you do and that is intentional. The 2008 Cs were built to win now and not later. There was no long-term plan for them. Ainge figured they had 3 years, tops, before that roster was done and only due to the development of Rondo was that timeline extended. So Cassell, Brown, Pollard and Scal had extensive experience to support that roster. Of course, many of those guys were at the tail end of their careers and were more important in their name than in their game. But they knew how professional basketball was played.

This roster is built for a much longer window. Horford and Baynes are the only players over 28. It is the 5th youngest roster, only .03 years older than Philly and .13 years older than the Lakers. Think about that. The wins for teams with rosters between 24 and 25 years old is (Chi), 19 (Pho), 31 (Lal), 38 (Phi), 47 (Bos), 44 (Por) and 38 (Den). This team is built for a long-term run. It's telling why Danny took on so many youngsters this year - he really didn't expect to win it all. Better to get them some experience, make their mistakes, grow into better players and have 5-10 year window to compete for multiple championships.

Can you clarify why you believe that adding veteran minimum players, instead of marginally talented and inexperienced young players, impacts our window? The key to our window is the youth of our top players, not the trash at the back-end of our roster.

I've always argued that Ainge made a mistake in wasting roster spots on Nader and Semi, when we were already developing Yabusele. You can probably have 1, maybe 2, but not 3 G-League type players on a roster that's expected to reach the ECF (at worst). Our roster was simply not built to withstand injuries and it's clear that Ainge put too much faith in their "abilities". Unless of course those that want to gives these guys a pass believe Ainge expected Nader and No-J to shoot 36% and 31% from the field.

Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
« Reply #159 on: March 19, 2018, 09:26:10 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

  • NGT
  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6825
  • Tommy Points: 1322
I don't understand the amount of attention Nader gets from some on this board. He was the 58th pick in his draft, is an NBA rookie, and making about 1% of the salary cap. He's not a great or even good player right now but every time I watch him he plays hard, stays engaged on defense and doesn't disrupt the offense. He's no star-in-the-making but I don't see any reason he can't grow into a reliable bench wing.

Over these last 3 games where he's had to step up, I though he's looked ok (going 2-8 at the line last night notwithstanding).
15th guy on the roster, pushed into a role because we have so many injuries.  The over-reaction to some missed free throws is ridiculous, but unfortunately all too in character for many on this board.
Given that every time I've seen Nader play, he looks like he lacks the requisite agility and skill to play in the NBA, he could have at least made a couple of free throws. He's the 15th man on an NBA roster, not a weekend warrior at the local YMCA.

So true. Nader apologists think it's okay for him to be abysmal because he's the 15th guy on the roster.

It's unfortunate that we are stuck giving minutes to the Trash Brothers (Nader and Semi) when we could've filled those spots with veteran players who could help us win now.
Here's a short illustrative example on roster building.

10th-15th men on this year's Boston Celtics (based on total mins played): Ojeleye, Larkin, Nader, Monroe, Yabusele, (random G-League dude).

10th-15th men on your 2007-2008 Celtics: Powe, Cassell, PJ Brown, Scalabrine, Pollard, Pruitt.

I sense a bit of discrepancy in terms of talent and experience there.

That you do and that is intentional. The 2008 Cs were built to win now and not later. There was no long-term plan for them. Ainge figured they had 3 years, tops, before that roster was done and only due to the development of Rondo was that timeline extended. So Cassell, Brown, Pollard and Scal had extensive experience to support that roster. Of course, many of those guys were at the tail end of their careers and were more important in their name than in their game. But they knew how professional basketball was played.

This roster is built for a much longer window. Horford and Baynes are the only players over 28. It is the 5th youngest roster, only .03 years older than Philly and .13 years older than the Lakers. Think about that. The wins for teams with rosters between 24 and 25 years old is (Chi), 19 (Pho), 31 (Lal), 38 (Phi), 47 (Bos), 44 (Por) and 38 (Den). This team is built for a long-term run. It's telling why Danny took on so many youngsters this year - he really didn't expect to win it all. Better to get them some experience, make their mistakes, grow into better players and have 5-10 year window to compete for multiple championships.

Agreed on all counts.  Ainge (correctly) didn't expect this team to contend in 2018.  I'm doubtful the players mentioned are even NBA caliber, but providing them with some opportunity now benefits the long-term mission.
"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me - red, yellow, black. I just didn't want a white guy guarding me, because it's disrespect to my game."
-Larry Bird

Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
« Reply #160 on: March 19, 2018, 10:10:41 PM »

Offline Eddie20

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7811
  • Tommy Points: 833
I don't understand the amount of attention Nader gets from some on this board. He was the 58th pick in his draft, is an NBA rookie, and making about 1% of the salary cap. He's not a great or even good player right now but every time I watch him he plays hard, stays engaged on defense and doesn't disrupt the offense. He's no star-in-the-making but I don't see any reason he can't grow into a reliable bench wing.

Over these last 3 games where he's had to step up, I though he's looked ok (going 2-8 at the line last night notwithstanding).
15th guy on the roster, pushed into a role because we have so many injuries.  The over-reaction to some missed free throws is ridiculous, but unfortunately all too in character for many on this board.
Given that every time I've seen Nader play, he looks like he lacks the requisite agility and skill to play in the NBA, he could have at least made a couple of free throws. He's the 15th man on an NBA roster, not a weekend warrior at the local YMCA.

So true. Nader apologists think it's okay for him to be abysmal because he's the 15th guy on the roster.

It's unfortunate that we are stuck giving minutes to the Trash Brothers (Nader and Semi) when we could've filled those spots with veteran players who could help us win now.
Here's a short illustrative example on roster building.

10th-15th men on this year's Boston Celtics (based on total mins played): Ojeleye, Larkin, Nader, Monroe, Yabusele, (random G-League dude).

10th-15th men on your 2007-2008 Celtics: Powe, Cassell, PJ Brown, Scalabrine, Pollard, Pruitt.

I sense a bit of discrepancy in terms of talent and experience there.

That you do and that is intentional. The 2008 Cs were built to win now and not later. There was no long-term plan for them. Ainge figured they had 3 years, tops, before that roster was done and only due to the development of Rondo was that timeline extended. So Cassell, Brown, Pollard and Scal had extensive experience to support that roster. Of course, many of those guys were at the tail end of their careers and were more important in their name than in their game. But they knew how professional basketball was played.

This roster is built for a much longer window. Horford and Baynes are the only players over 28. It is the 5th youngest roster, only .03 years older than Philly and .13 years older than the Lakers. Think about that. The wins for teams with rosters between 24 and 25 years old is (Chi), 19 (Pho), 31 (Lal), 38 (Phi), 47 (Bos), 44 (Por) and 38 (Den). This team is built for a long-term run. It's telling why Danny took on so many youngsters this year - he really didn't expect to win it all. Better to get them some experience, make their mistakes, grow into better players and have 5-10 year window to compete for multiple championships.

Agreed on all counts.  Ainge (correctly) didn't expect this team to contend in 2018.  I'm doubtful the players mentioned are even NBA caliber, but providing them with some opportunity now benefits the long-term mission.

1. So who do you think we can't beat in the EC if healthy?

2. So what's the point of developing the said non-NBA caliber players? Is it for their respective future Euro team?

Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
« Reply #161 on: March 19, 2018, 10:24:09 PM »

Offline Granath

  • NCE
  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2114
  • Tommy Points: 542
I don't understand the amount of attention Nader gets from some on this board. He was the 58th pick in his draft, is an NBA rookie, and making about 1% of the salary cap. He's not a great or even good player right now but every time I watch him he plays hard, stays engaged on defense and doesn't disrupt the offense. He's no star-in-the-making but I don't see any reason he can't grow into a reliable bench wing.

Over these last 3 games where he's had to step up, I though he's looked ok (going 2-8 at the line last night notwithstanding).
15th guy on the roster, pushed into a role because we have so many injuries.  The over-reaction to some missed free throws is ridiculous, but unfortunately all too in character for many on this board.
Given that every time I've seen Nader play, he looks like he lacks the requisite agility and skill to play in the NBA, he could have at least made a couple of free throws. He's the 15th man on an NBA roster, not a weekend warrior at the local YMCA.

So true. Nader apologists think it's okay for him to be abysmal because he's the 15th guy on the roster.

It's unfortunate that we are stuck giving minutes to the Trash Brothers (Nader and Semi) when we could've filled those spots with veteran players who could help us win now.
Here's a short illustrative example on roster building.

10th-15th men on this year's Boston Celtics (based on total mins played): Ojeleye, Larkin, Nader, Monroe, Yabusele, (random G-League dude).

10th-15th men on your 2007-2008 Celtics: Powe, Cassell, PJ Brown, Scalabrine, Pollard, Pruitt.

I sense a bit of discrepancy in terms of talent and experience there.

That you do and that is intentional. The 2008 Cs were built to win now and not later. There was no long-term plan for them. Ainge figured they had 3 years, tops, before that roster was done and only due to the development of Rondo was that timeline extended. So Cassell, Brown, Pollard and Scal had extensive experience to support that roster. Of course, many of those guys were at the tail end of their careers and were more important in their name than in their game. But they knew how professional basketball was played.

This roster is built for a much longer window. Horford and Baynes are the only players over 28. It is the 5th youngest roster, only .03 years older than Philly and .13 years older than the Lakers. Think about that. The wins for teams with rosters between 24 and 25 years old is (Chi), 19 (Pho), 31 (Lal), 38 (Phi), 47 (Bos), 44 (Por) and 38 (Den). This team is built for a long-term run. It's telling why Danny took on so many youngsters this year - he really didn't expect to win it all. Better to get them some experience, make their mistakes, grow into better players and have 5-10 year window to compete for multiple championships.

Agreed on all counts.  Ainge (correctly) didn't expect this team to contend in 2018.  I'm doubtful the players mentioned are even NBA caliber, but providing them with some opportunity now benefits the long-term mission.

1. So who do you think we can't beat in the EC if healthy?

2. So what's the point of developing the said non-NBA caliber players? Is it for their respective future Euro team?

1. Has nothing to do with the EC.

2. They're in the NBA, so that entirely defeats your second point. A couple of these guys will wash out after a year or two. A couple of these guys will develop and blossom. I think Rozier's development should all give us pause as to who will be who.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
« Reply #162 on: March 19, 2018, 11:00:00 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • Global Moderator
  • Walter Brown
  • ********************************
  • Posts: 32251
  • Tommy Points: 5294
I don't understand the amount of attention Nader gets from some on this board. He was the 58th pick in his draft, is an NBA rookie, and making about 1% of the salary cap. He's not a great or even good player right now but every time I watch him he plays hard, stays engaged on defense and doesn't disrupt the offense. He's no star-in-the-making but I don't see any reason he can't grow into a reliable bench wing.

Over these last 3 games where he's had to step up, I though he's looked ok (going 2-8 at the line last night notwithstanding).
15th guy on the roster, pushed into a role because we have so many injuries.  The over-reaction to some missed free throws is ridiculous, but unfortunately all too in character for many on this board.
Given that every time I've seen Nader play, he looks like he lacks the requisite agility and skill to play in the NBA, he could have at least made a couple of free throws. He's the 15th man on an NBA roster, not a weekend warrior at the local YMCA.

So true. Nader apologists think it's okay for him to be abysmal because he's the 15th guy on the roster.

It's unfortunate that we are stuck giving minutes to the Trash Brothers (Nader and Semi) when we could've filled those spots with veteran players who could help us win now.
Here's a short illustrative example on roster building.

10th-15th men on this year's Boston Celtics (based on total mins played): Ojeleye, Larkin, Nader, Monroe, Yabusele, (random G-League dude).

10th-15th men on your 2007-2008 Celtics: Powe, Cassell, PJ Brown, Scalabrine, Pollard, Pruitt.

I sense a bit of discrepancy in terms of talent and experience there.

That you do and that is intentional. The 2008 Cs were built to win now and not later. There was no long-term plan for them. Ainge figured they had 3 years, tops, before that roster was done and only due to the development of Rondo was that timeline extended. So Cassell, Brown, Pollard and Scal had extensive experience to support that roster. Of course, many of those guys were at the tail end of their careers and were more important in their name than in their game. But they knew how professional basketball was played.

This roster is built for a much longer window. Horford and Baynes are the only players over 28. It is the 5th youngest roster, only .03 years older than Philly and .13 years older than the Lakers. Think about that. The wins for teams with rosters between 24 and 25 years old is (Chi), 19 (Pho), 31 (Lal), 38 (Phi), 47 (Bos), 44 (Por) and 38 (Den). This team is built for a long-term run. It's telling why Danny took on so many youngsters this year - he really didn't expect to win it all. Better to get them some experience, make their mistakes, grow into better players and have 5-10 year window to compete for multiple championships.

Agreed on all counts.  Ainge (correctly) didn't expect this team to contend in 2018.  I'm doubtful the players mentioned are even NBA caliber, but providing them with some opportunity now benefits the long-term mission.

1. So who do you think we can't beat in the EC if healthy?

2. So what's the point of developing the said non-NBA caliber players? Is it for their respective future Euro team?

1. Has nothing to do with the EC.

2. They're in the NBA, so that entirely defeats your second point. A couple of these guys will wash out after a year or two. A couple of these guys will develop and blossom. I think Rozier's development should all give us pause as to who will be who.
Regarding 2, he has a point. If the players are basically G League level players with little upside, why waste the time trying to develop them? I guess it all comes down to scouting. But Rozier was obviously way better from a raw talent perspective than Nader, Semi, Bird, Allen and such. Just a look at his college film will tell you that. Rozier's initial ceiling was miles and miles higher than any of those other guys. I think comparing Rozier to them is doing a giant dissrevice to Rozy and his ability and potential.

Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
« Reply #163 on: March 19, 2018, 11:30:49 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

  • NGT
  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6825
  • Tommy Points: 1322
I don't understand the amount of attention Nader gets from some on this board. He was the 58th pick in his draft, is an NBA rookie, and making about 1% of the salary cap. He's not a great or even good player right now but every time I watch him he plays hard, stays engaged on defense and doesn't disrupt the offense. He's no star-in-the-making but I don't see any reason he can't grow into a reliable bench wing.

Over these last 3 games where he's had to step up, I though he's looked ok (going 2-8 at the line last night notwithstanding).
15th guy on the roster, pushed into a role because we have so many injuries.  The over-reaction to some missed free throws is ridiculous, but unfortunately all too in character for many on this board.
Given that every time I've seen Nader play, he looks like he lacks the requisite agility and skill to play in the NBA, he could have at least made a couple of free throws. He's the 15th man on an NBA roster, not a weekend warrior at the local YMCA.

So true. Nader apologists think it's okay for him to be abysmal because he's the 15th guy on the roster.

It's unfortunate that we are stuck giving minutes to the Trash Brothers (Nader and Semi) when we could've filled those spots with veteran players who could help us win now.
Here's a short illustrative example on roster building.

10th-15th men on this year's Boston Celtics (based on total mins played): Ojeleye, Larkin, Nader, Monroe, Yabusele, (random G-League dude).

10th-15th men on your 2007-2008 Celtics: Powe, Cassell, PJ Brown, Scalabrine, Pollard, Pruitt.

I sense a bit of discrepancy in terms of talent and experience there.

That you do and that is intentional. The 2008 Cs were built to win now and not later. There was no long-term plan for them. Ainge figured they had 3 years, tops, before that roster was done and only due to the development of Rondo was that timeline extended. So Cassell, Brown, Pollard and Scal had extensive experience to support that roster. Of course, many of those guys were at the tail end of their careers and were more important in their name than in their game. But they knew how professional basketball was played.

This roster is built for a much longer window. Horford and Baynes are the only players over 28. It is the 5th youngest roster, only .03 years older than Philly and .13 years older than the Lakers. Think about that. The wins for teams with rosters between 24 and 25 years old is (Chi), 19 (Pho), 31 (Lal), 38 (Phi), 47 (Bos), 44 (Por) and 38 (Den). This team is built for a long-term run. It's telling why Danny took on so many youngsters this year - he really didn't expect to win it all. Better to get them some experience, make their mistakes, grow into better players and have 5-10 year window to compete for multiple championships.

Agreed on all counts.  Ainge (correctly) didn't expect this team to contend in 2018.  I'm doubtful the players mentioned are even NBA caliber, but providing them with some opportunity now benefits the long-term mission.

1. So who do you think we can't beat in the EC if healthy?

2. So what's the point of developing the said non-NBA caliber players? Is it for their respective future Euro team?

Making the Finals isn't equivalent to being a contenders. 

It's a matter of remaining active as a GM -- their development could reap long-term rewards, whereas signing vet min free agents in a year of non-contention doesn't.  There are recent examples of young guys that went undrafted and carved out NBA roles (Yogi Ferrell, Royce O'Neal), so it's also not unprecedented.  They're cost-controlled options, and fit our future window of contention as well. 
"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me - red, yellow, black. I just didn't want a white guy guarding me, because it's disrespect to my game."
-Larry Bird

Re: Abdel Nader (merged threads)
« Reply #164 on: March 20, 2018, 12:47:26 AM »

Offline chilidawg

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1948
  • Tommy Points: 248
I don't understand the amount of attention Nader gets from some on this board. He was the 58th pick in his draft, is an NBA rookie, and making about 1% of the salary cap. He's not a great or even good player right now but every time I watch him he plays hard, stays engaged on defense and doesn't disrupt the offense. He's no star-in-the-making but I don't see any reason he can't grow into a reliable bench wing.

Over these last 3 games where he's had to step up, I though he's looked ok (going 2-8 at the line last night notwithstanding).
15th guy on the roster, pushed into a role because we have so many injuries.  The over-reaction to some missed free throws is ridiculous, but unfortunately all too in character for many on this board.
Given that every time I've seen Nader play, he looks like he lacks the requisite agility and skill to play in the NBA, he could have at least made a couple of free throws. He's the 15th man on an NBA roster, not a weekend warrior at the local YMCA.

So true. Nader apologists think it's okay for him to be abysmal because he's the 15th guy on the roster.

It's unfortunate that we are stuck giving minutes to the Trash Brothers (Nader and Semi) when we could've filled those spots with veteran players who could help us win now.
Here's a short illustrative example on roster building.

10th-15th men on this year's Boston Celtics (based on total mins played): Ojeleye, Larkin, Nader, Monroe, Yabusele, (random G-League dude).

10th-15th men on your 2007-2008 Celtics: Powe, Cassell, PJ Brown, Scalabrine, Pollard, Pruitt.

I sense a bit of discrepancy in terms of talent and experience there.

That you do and that is intentional. The 2008 Cs were built to win now and not later. There was no long-term plan for them. Ainge figured they had 3 years, tops, before that roster was done and only due to the development of Rondo was that timeline extended. So Cassell, Brown, Pollard and Scal had extensive experience to support that roster. Of course, many of those guys were at the tail end of their careers and were more important in their name than in their game. But they knew how professional basketball was played.

This roster is built for a much longer window. Horford and Baynes are the only players over 28. It is the 5th youngest roster, only .03 years older than Philly and .13 years older than the Lakers. Think about that. The wins for teams with rosters between 24 and 25 years old is (Chi), 19 (Pho), 31 (Lal), 38 (Phi), 47 (Bos), 44 (Por) and 38 (Den). This team is built for a long-term run. It's telling why Danny took on so many youngsters this year - he really didn't expect to win it all. Better to get them some experience, make their mistakes, grow into better players and have 5-10 year window to compete for multiple championships.

Agreed on all counts.  Ainge (correctly) didn't expect this team to contend in 2018.  I'm doubtful the players mentioned are even NBA caliber, but providing them with some opportunity now benefits the long-term mission.

1. So who do you think we can't beat in the EC if healthy?

2. So what's the point of developing the said non-NBA caliber players? Is it for their respective future Euro team?

Making the Finals isn't equivalent to being a contenders. 

It's a matter of remaining active as a GM -- their development could reap long-term rewards, whereas signing vet min free agents in a year of non-contention doesn't.  There are recent examples of young guys that went undrafted and carved out NBA roles (Yogi Ferrell, Royce O'Neal), so it's also not unprecedented.  They're cost-controlled options, and fit our future window of contention as well.

There have already been 26 guys from last years draft alone who went undrafted and have had at least a cup of coffee in the League.  2016 has seen about a dozen guys who have roles at least.  It's certainly not unprecedented, it's actually pretty common.