Author Topic: An Okafor Trade in the Age of Horford  (Read 4067 times)

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Re: An Okafor Trade in the Age of Horford
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2016, 03:45:11 PM »

Offline A Future of Stevens

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My question is, you claim he can AT THE VERY LEAST defend the center position VERY WELL (on phone, don't know how to highlight for emphasis sorry.) Yet he in only one year has shown an utter lack of ability to do even that. Given his immense size and quickness you would think he would show an ability to atleast hold his own but he hasnt. This isn't even taking the modern necessities of defensive centers into account. The only thing he has shown an ability to do his be decent at blocking shots, yet most advanced stats show he is awful at defending.

#JKJB

Re: An Okafor Trade in the Age of Horford
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2016, 04:24:53 PM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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My question is, you claim he can AT THE VERY LEAST defend the center position VERY WELL (on phone, don't know how to highlight for emphasis sorry.) Yet he in only one year has shown an utter lack of ability to do even that. Given his immense size and quickness you would think he would show an ability to atleast hold his own but he hasnt. This isn't even taking the modern necessities of defensive centers into account. The only thing he has shown an ability to do his be decent at blocking shots, yet most advanced stats show he is awful at defending.
I guess whenever Okafor is brought up I should have a copied message lol.

If you watched any of Myles Turner during college at UT you may see some of the same variables come into play. MT was very underrated coming out of college...

Anyways, against Philly teams could do 2 things very easily:
1) pack it in on defense- besides Okafor Philly had no legit scorers or even decent shooters to stretch the floor.
2)get past the wing defenders- lead to a chaotic defense in Philly, and a grueling experience. IMO Okafor as a 19 year old rookie and being that he is naturally huge, got used up/did not have the conditioning for an entire season of Philly and being 19 he was asked to do way to much especially as a center  and given the way he plays and given the parts of his game which need work.....all this interfered with his game, which is a good thing because the player he can be and the value he has been labeled with are not the same at all.

Guys his size usually have problems in the same areas on defense, especially during their rookie years, and given his experience and minutes played he had to string together. IMO that was the worst situation he could be in given his age, size, and strengths/weaknesses


Look at KO or Zeller from a year ago. They did pretty well statistically on defense, Okafor can guard the 5 spot and bring more length and size than both of them. Okafor is a legit basketball player, NATURAL scorer, and has the IQ and ability to improve. Many do not think he can improve and that is where the value is.

Just the lone year of experience will be huge for him, it's the same for any rookie that is 1 and done, and especially for him.

Re: An Okafor Trade in the Age of Horford
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2016, 04:36:00 PM »

Offline A Future of Stevens

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My question is, you claim he can AT THE VERY LEAST defend the center position VERY WELL (on phone, don't know how to highlight for emphasis sorry.) Yet he in only one year has shown an utter lack of ability to do even that. Given his immense size and quickness you would think he would show an ability to atleast hold his own but he hasnt. This isn't even taking the modern necessities of defensive centers into account. The only thing he has shown an ability to do his be decent at blocking shots, yet most advanced stats show he is awful at defending.
I guess whenever Okafor is brought up I should have a copied message lol.

If you watched any of Myles Turner during college at UT you may see some of the same variables come into play. MT was very underrated coming out of college...

Anyways, against Philly teams could do 2 things very easily:
1) pack it in on defense- besides Okafor Philly had no legit scorers or even decent shooters to stretch the floor.
2)get past the wing defenders- lead to a chaotic defense in Philly, and a grueling experience. IMO Okafor as a 19 year old rookie and being that he is naturally huge, got used up/did not have the conditioning for an entire season of Philly and being 19 he was asked to do way to much especially as a center  and given the way he plays and given the parts of his game which need work.....all this interfered with his game, which is a good thing because the player he can be and the value he has been labeled with are not the same at all.

Guys his size usually have problems in the same areas on defense, especially during their rookie years, and given his experience and minutes played he had to string together. IMO that was the worst situation he could be in given his age, size, and strengths/weaknesses


Look at KO or Zeller from a year ago. They did pretty well statistically on defense, Okafor can guard the 5 spot and bring more length and size than both of them. Okafor is a legit basketball player, NATURAL scorer, and has the IQ and ability to improve. Many do not think he can improve and that is where the value is.

Just the lone year of experience will be huge for him, it's the same for any rookie that is 1 and done, and especially for him.

TP- The reason I ask is because I am coming around on trying to get Okafor. Especially since it looks like his value is in the dirt around the league. If we could snag him without giving up a brooklyn pick, my god danny would get a steal.

I just don't like how some posters here make wild statements that don't really have basis in reality. You provided some valid points about why Okafor could be good on defense if given the right system. I would only caution to maybe change the description of interior defense from great to "good or serviceable." Using olynyk and zeller as point anchors doesn't inspire confidence, yet I completely understand your point.

One criticism I hold of your argument is that this perception of a okafor being a terrible defender wasn't caused by his sole year in philly. It had been years of him being viewed as a transcendant talent, and his lack of progression on that end of the court. He was decent in college on that end, but his real test to be able to stick with NBA level of centers was supposed to come in the NBA. So in effect his terrible defensive showing in philly was more evidence to the narrative surrounding him since he was 16 or so.

Also where do you fall on the whole season ending injury thing? Miniscus tears arent anything to sneeze at.
#JKJB

Re: An Okafor Trade in the Age of Horford
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2016, 05:11:08 PM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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My question is, you claim he can AT THE VERY LEAST defend the center position VERY WELL (on phone, don't know how to highlight for emphasis sorry.) Yet he in only one year has shown an utter lack of ability to do even that. Given his immense size and quickness you would think he would show an ability to atleast hold his own but he hasnt. This isn't even taking the modern necessities of defensive centers into account. The only thing he has shown an ability to do his be decent at blocking shots, yet most advanced stats show he is awful at defending.
I guess whenever Okafor is brought up I should have a copied message lol.

If you watched any of Myles Turner during college at UT you may see some of the same variables come into play. MT was very underrated coming out of college...

Anyways, against Philly teams could do 2 things very easily:
1) pack it in on defense- besides Okafor Philly had no legit scorers or even decent shooters to stretch the floor.
2)get past the wing defenders- lead to a chaotic defense in Philly, and a grueling experience. IMO Okafor as a 19 year old rookie and being that he is naturally huge, got used up/did not have the conditioning for an entire season of Philly and being 19 he was asked to do way to much especially as a center  and given the way he plays and given the parts of his game which need work.....all this interfered with his game, which is a good thing because the player he can be and the value he has been labeled with are not the same at all.

Guys his size usually have problems in the same areas on defense, especially during their rookie years, and given his experience and minutes played he had to string together. IMO that was the worst situation he could be in given his age, size, and strengths/weaknesses


Look at KO or Zeller from a year ago. They did pretty well statistically on defense, Okafor can guard the 5 spot and bring more length and size than both of them. Okafor is a legit basketball player, NATURAL scorer, and has the IQ and ability to improve. Many do not think he can improve and that is where the value is.

Just the lone year of experience will be huge for him, it's the same for any rookie that is 1 and done, and especially for him.

TP- The reason I ask is because I am coming around on trying to get Okafor. Especially since it looks like his value is in the dirt around the league. If we could snag him without giving up a brooklyn pick, my god danny would get a steal.

I just don't like how some posters here make wild statements that don't really have basis in reality. You provided some valid points about why Okafor could be good on defense if given the right system. I would only caution to maybe change the description of interior defense from great to "good or serviceable." Using olynyk and zeller as point anchors doesn't inspire confidence, yet I completely understand your point.

One criticism I hold of your argument is that this perception of a okafor being a terrible defender wasn't caused by his sole year in philly. It had been years of him being viewed as a transcendant talent, and his lack of progression on that end of the court. He was decent in college on that end, but his real test to be able to stick with NBA level of centers was supposed to come in the NBA. So in effect his terrible defensive showing in philly was more evidence to the narrative surrounding him since he was 16 or so.

Also where do you fall on the whole season ending injury thing? Miniscus tears arent anything to sneeze at.
TP
I agree. I end up writing the same post over and over, it would be way more efficient and better if I copy one good post with the right wording lol. After awhile it gets so much easier to say "he WILL BE" than " here are the reasons why I believe he has the rare potential and underestimated ability to be"

I have not heard much about the Miniscus tear recently. It was not brought up much at all before the draft and figure since it was not brought up that things were going well. He did it the right way though, not the way D-Wade went about it. Given his age/size, the minutes he had to string together and the grueling Philly system....I can see how he got hurt.

I use KO and Zeller because in my mind they were so much older when rookies/drafted and they are much shorter in length.

Okafor:    7'6'' wingspan, 9'3'' standing reach
KO:         6'10'' wingspan, 9'   standing reach
Zeller:      7'      wingspan, 8'8  standing reach


The 2015 draft had Myles Turner as the #1 overall pick in mock drafts for a long time, also had Cliff Alexander and even Kelly Oubre at a point and Okafor. Okafor did get the hype but even when this was happening I was trying to point out Towns and Turner( hurts too much to bring up).

I think everything has worked out well. Okafor has to know why he has fallen out of acclaim (either from sponsor or agent at minimum for $$$ reasons) and because of the current style/market in the NBA he is even more undervalued.

I think reality has smacked him in the face and he can only get better at his weaknesses and work on them.


Smart
4
Okafor
Would be unbelievable. Also Philly owns  LAL(top3 protected) 2017 1st rounders.

EDIT: The site I was on may be wrong in regards to Philly owning the 2017 MIA pick.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2016, 05:40:29 PM by Future Celtics Owner »

Re: An Okafor Trade in the Age of Horford
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2016, 05:19:48 PM »

Offline loco_91

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I remain unenamored. You can't just assume Horford will rub off on him. It's not like Jahil was only a bad defender because of his situation in Philly--he has always been a bad defender, always. And guys who can't guard and can't shoot 3's are just really, really tough to fit into NBA lineups these days. Okafor is very talented, but I wouldn't give up an asset like Smart for him unless he shows significant improvement on defense.

Re: An Okafor Trade in the Age of Horford
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2016, 05:46:50 PM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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I remain unenamored. You can't just assume Horford will rub off on him. It's not like Jahil was only a bad defender because of his situation in Philly--he has always been a bad defender, always. And guys who can't guard and can't shoot 3's are just really, really tough to fit into NBA lineups these days. Okafor is very talented, but I wouldn't give up an asset like Smart for him unless he shows significant improvement on defense.
It's not like he didn't rip us apart his first NBA game as a 19 year old kid. lol.

His size, length, skill, bbiq, footwork, Philly team, and age all play a role in how you should look at him. Watch some video on him and look at how much bigger he is than anyone on our team.

If we only had to give Marcus Smart for Okafor.....that would be so cool 8)


Re: An Okafor Trade in the Age of Horford
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2016, 06:19:17 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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I believe that Ainge is conserving cap space to make a run at free agents over the next two summers, so I don't think he is willing to trade for Okafor unless he gets such good value that he can't say no, just like he was offered in the Isaiah Thomas trade.
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Re: An Okafor Trade in the Age of Horford
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2016, 06:55:10 PM »

Online BringToughnessBack

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It is ironic that everyone is complaining that Danny did not pull the trigger on an Okafor deal....how unreasonable Danny must be. In reality, all the other GM's out there must be as unreasonable because nobody is meeting the asking price of the 76ers and the value they attach to a player who shown no personal control off the court.

If Okafor is such an amazing target and the price the 76ers is asking is fair, why is nobody biting..not a single GM is willing to risk high value chips to acquire him.

Hearing trade proposals like Smart and a Brooklyn pick is beyond ludicrous to me. It is just too much to give for a player who has yet to show he can be mature and not make off the court decisions that could land him in jail. Thank god that person he knocked out on the street did not end up dead.

I understand how amazing it would be to have a great center, but offering up trades of 2 top 6 players with one potentially top 3(17 nets pick or 18 nets pick) does not make any sense to me. Apparently, it does not make any sense to Danny and the rest of the GM's as well. The Sixers are not in a position of power here and should not be able to fleece anyone related to a trade for Okafor and Noel. They can always keep their 3 "prized" centers.

If I am going to gamble the farm on a player and give away all of my trade chips, it will be for a game changer like Cousins, who by the way, also comes with a huge suitcase of baggage but at least with him, I am confident he can altar the game on both sides of the court and dominate in any given game. Plus, Cousins would be a good advantage to have vs teams such as the Warriors and Cavs since they do not have an advantageous matchup vs. him.

Re: An Okafor Trade in the Age of Horford
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2016, 07:11:20 PM »

Online celticsclay

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I remain unenamored. You can't just assume Horford will rub off on him. It's not like Jahil was only a bad defender because of his situation in Philly--he has always been a bad defender, always. And guys who can't guard and can't shoot 3's are just really, really tough to fit into NBA lineups these days. Okafor is very talented, but I wouldn't give up an asset like Smart for him unless he shows significant improvement on defense.
It's not like he didn't rip us apart his first NBA game as a 19 year old kid. lol.

His size, length, skill, bbiq, footwork, Philly team, and age all play a role in how you should look at him. Watch some video on him and look at how much bigger he is than anyone on our team.

If we only had to give Marcus Smart for Okafor.....that would be so cool 8)

Philly does that trade in a second, boston requires more.

Re: An Okafor Trade in the Age of Horford
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2016, 01:58:33 AM »

Offline RAAAAAAAANDY

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I remain unenamored. You can't just assume Horford will rub off on him. It's not like Jahil was only a bad defender because of his situation in Philly--he has always been a bad defender, always. And guys who can't guard and can't shoot 3's are just really, really tough to fit into NBA lineups these days. Okafor is very talented, but I wouldn't give up an asset like Smart for him unless he shows significant improvement on defense.
It's not like he didn't rip us apart his first NBA game as a 19 year old kid. lol.

His size, length, skill, bbiq, footwork, Philly team, and age all play a role in how you should look at him. Watch some video on him and look at how much bigger he is than anyone on our team.

If we only had to give Marcus Smart for Okafor.....that would be so cool 8)

Philly does that trade in a second, boston requires more.

Why exactly is Philly trading for one of the least efficient scorers in the NBA again? Smart is a black hole offensively, can't shoot and can't finish at the rim. Doesn't get to the line a ton.

Blah. We have 2 probable top 10 picks in a guard heavy draft class next year, no real interest in Smart.