Get Westbrook! Or no? / Westbrook needs to be a main target now

[Moranis]

He's super overrated IMO.  He would be a bad fit in our system.  He's basically Rondo if Rondo took 20+ shots per night.  He's not a bad player by any means, but he's a ball dominating chucker who shoots 29% from three. 

Gonna be interesting to see if OKC can even make the playoffs without Durant carrying them.

Pretty simplistic way of looking at things really.  I mean Russ averaged  23.5 points, 10.4 assists, and 7.8 rebounds per game.  For good measure he threw in 2 steals.  His TS% was 55.4 and he scored at a rate of 1.3 points per shot with a PER of 27.6.  He would have led Boston in points, assists, and steals and would have been second only to Sullinger in rebounds.  This from a 6'3" PG. 

To acquire him, Thomas would have to be traded (in the trade for Westbrook makes sense to me).  I'd happily trade Thomas, 2018 Brooklyn, and some other assets for him.  The only real concern is losing Westbrook next summer.

Actually, I think quoting those stats is a pretty simplistic way of looking at things.

Points 23.5 - Sure... but he shot 42% and 29% from three doing it.  Negative

Assists:  10.4 - That's nice, but he had the HIGHEST usage rate in the league and his assist-to-turnover ratio wasn't even in the top 25. 

Rebounds:  7.8: - Ask me again if I care about my point guard getting a lot of rebounds. 

TS%:  55.4%: So, 123rd in the league then?  Uhh... ok. 

Yes, if we let him have a Rondonian hold over the offense, he'd continue to rack up tons of inflated statistics.  But that's not the style of play Brad Stevens runs.  We had a Top 5 offense last year because we operate under a pace-and-space offense that puts a priority on shooting.   Westbrook isn't a good shooter and he requires the ball to be effective.  And his efficiency took a hit when Durant sat out the majority of the 2014-15 season (42% shooting).   Furthermore, it's debatable how much he even helps that team win.  When he himself missed a large chunk of time in 2013-14, Durant's efficiency wasn't impacted at all.  He actually flourished without Westbrook.  The team went 26-11 (their typical win pace) and Durant was incredible with the opportunity to control the ball more without Westbrook stinking up the joint.  When Durant missed time, the Thunder were a borderline .500 team.

He's an ok player.  He's a bad fit here, though.  And I suspect he's going to get exposed soon as being overrated.  All-star?  Sure.  Super-star?  No.

Um, Westbrook shot over 45%, which among PG's ranked him 6th.  Not a great three point shooter, but gets to the line more than any other PG and shot a respectable 81.2%.  That TS% of 55 is better than PG's like Tony Parker who shot much better from the field.  Heck even Thomas was just at 56.2% (so only nominally better than RW).  You can't compare a PG's TS% with the entire league, that is just nonsense.

And no question he had a fair amount of turnovers, but his A/T ratio is still pretty solid (again better than Thomas as well as Curry, Lowry, Irving, Lillard, Dragic). 

Westbrook is a without question a top 10 player in the league and you could make a strong argument he is a top 5 player.  He would be a significant upgrade over every single player on this team (including Horford).  He is a real legit superstar.  Those players don't grow on trees.  Heck Boston hasn't had one of those in their prime since Larry Bird (Pierce was a HOFer, but he wasn't a superstar, not like Westbrook and KG was past his prime when he came to Boston).

[Beat LA]

He's super overrated IMO.  He would be a bad fit in our system.  He's basically Rondo if Rondo took 20+ shots per night.  He's not a bad player by any means, but he's a ball dominating chucker who shoots 29% from three. 

Gonna be interesting to see if OKC can even make the playoffs without Durant carrying them.

In regards to Westbrook, hell no, lol, but there's absolutely no comparison between him and Rondo.  Saying stuff like that makes it sound like you've never seen either guy play before, lol, even though I know that that is not the case.  I agree with you that Westbrook is completely overrated, but the main difference between him and Rondo is that Rondo would never have clashed with Durant over ignoring him on offense and taking dumb shots instead of getting KD the ball.  Yeah, Rondo has the ball in his hands a lot, but who would you rather have to run your offense?  If Durant had played with Rondo instead of Westbrook for his career to date he probably would have had at least a few seasons where he averaged close to 40 points, lol, because Rondo would have gotten him so many great shots that Westbrook can only dream of making in regards to passing because Russell isn't a point guard, irrespective of his assist totals and per game averages.  The only time that it looked like he had finally figured out how to coexist with Durant by actually being a point guard, to me, was from game 4 against the Spurs until game 4 or 5 against the Warriors, iirc, but when things got tight, he reverted to his selfish form, as did Durant, and that's at least a major component of why they lost that series, imo.  I'm also interested to see how Westbrook's game ages, because it's based entirely on athleticism, to me.  It's not like he can rely on his handle, which is sub par, or his shooting, even though that has gotten much better since he entered the league, but beyond that, I'll never understand the hate for Rondo on this board.

[Dino Pitino]

I'm seeing people willing to trade IT for Westbrook?

That would be the death knell for this franchise for the next 10 years and for all the goodwill it has built up with players and agents.

Like it or not, IT is the face of this franchise right now and a MAJOR reason why Horford is here.

To trade IT right now would make Ainge and the franchise persona non grata with players in the NBA as well as many of our own players.

CAN'T trade IT right now.

Nope. It's a business. Loyalty is great, but loyalty at the expense of a championship is for losers. Westbrook is indisputably a much, much better player. If OKC offered Westbrook for Isaiah straight up, even you would take it. It's just a matter of Isaiah plus what. I would NOT want to give up Smart or Brown. Any other prospect, though. Every other player on a rookie deal, if OKC wanted them. Isaiah and the Seven Noobs, lol, why not. Plus a 1st, which one (or two) yet to be determined. But a version of this would be the realistic minimum, I think, in the event that OKC has no leverage.

1. Isaiah (plus filler if need be, i.e., Jerebko)
2. Olynyk
3. One or more of Yabusele/Zizic/Jackson/Bentil/Rozier/Hunter/Mickey/Nader
4. Brooklyn 2018 1st

Maybe if OKC is really bent over a barrel, that Brooklyn pick could be replaced by the Memphis pick plus the Clippers pick?

Westbrook
Smart
Brown
Crowder
Horford

Bradley and whomever off the bench.

Looks weak, right?

Bad shooting, therefore bad spacing? But Westbrook-Crowder-Horford can shoot. Enough, anyway. What looks bad is starting Smart and Brown. But if Smart and Brown can be 30-33% shooters from three, too, then we're golden. That'd make every position three-capable. Now imagine that Smart and Brown fulfill their potential and wind up someday both counted as two-way stars. No team weaknesses, then. Even this year, the defense would be menacing.

EDIT: If shooting would still be too big of a weakness, then replace Smart with Bradley, bring Smart off the bench as a sixth man who can play the 1 or 2 or 3. Defense won't suffer too much with Smart benched, since the guy replacing him is an All-Defensive guard.

[Dino Pitino]

He's super overrated IMO.  He would be a bad fit in our system.  He's basically Rondo if Rondo took 20+ shots per night.  He's not a bad player by any means, but he's a ball dominating chucker who shoots 29% from three. 

Gonna be interesting to see if OKC can even make the playoffs without Durant carrying them.

Pretty simplistic way of looking at things really.  I mean Russ averaged  23.5 points, 10.4 assists, and 7.8 rebounds per game.  For good measure he threw in 2 steals.  His TS% was 55.4 and he scored at a rate of 1.3 points per shot with a PER of 27.6.  He would have led Boston in points, assists, and steals and would have been second only to Sullinger in rebounds.  This from a 6'3" PG. 

To acquire him, Thomas would have to be traded (in the trade for Westbrook makes sense to me).  I'd happily trade Thomas, 2018 Brooklyn, and some other assets for him.  The only real concern is losing Westbrook next summer.

Actually, I think quoting those stats is a pretty simplistic way of looking at things.

Points 23.5 - Sure... but he shot 42% and 29% from three doing it.  Negative

Assists:  10.4 - That's nice, but he had the HIGHEST usage rate in the league and his assist-to-turnover ratio wasn't even in the top 25. 

Rebounds:  7.8: - Ask me again if I care about my point guard getting a lot of rebounds. 

TS%:  55.4%: So, 123rd in the league then?  Uhh... ok. 

Yes, if we let him have a Rondonian hold over the offense, he'd continue to rack up tons of inflated statistics.  But that's not the style of play Brad Stevens runs.  We had a Top 5 offense last year because we operate under a pace-and-space offense that puts a priority on shooting.   Westbrook isn't a good shooter and he requires the ball to be effective.  And his efficiency took a hit when Durant sat out the majority of the 2014-15 season (42% shooting).   Furthermore, it's debatable how much he even helps that team win.  When he himself missed a large chunk of time in 2013-14, Durant's efficiency wasn't impacted at all.  He actually flourished without Westbrook.  The team went 26-11 (their typical win pace) and Durant was incredible with the opportunity to control the ball more without Westbrook stinking up the joint.  When Durant missed time, the Thunder were a borderline .500 team.

He's an ok player.  He's a bad fit here, though.  And I suspect he's going to get exposed soon as being overrated.  All-star?  Sure.  Super-star?  No.

Compelling points by LarBrd. Why I wouldn't want to give up Smart or Brown, why I'm reluctant about even a single Brooklyn pick. Not a small enough of a risk that Westbrook would go rogue and play hero ball, not small enough to sacrifice our two best young talents.

[LarBrd33]

He's super overrated IMO.  He would be a bad fit in our system.  He's basically Rondo if Rondo took 20+ shots per night.  He's not a bad player by any means, but he's a ball dominating chucker who shoots 29% from three. 

Gonna be interesting to see if OKC can even make the playoffs without Durant carrying them.

Pretty simplistic way of looking at things really.  I mean Russ averaged  23.5 points, 10.4 assists, and 7.8 rebounds per game.  For good measure he threw in 2 steals.  His TS% was 55.4 and he scored at a rate of 1.3 points per shot with a PER of 27.6.  He would have led Boston in points, assists, and steals and would have been second only to Sullinger in rebounds.  This from a 6'3" PG. 

To acquire him, Thomas would have to be traded (in the trade for Westbrook makes sense to me).  I'd happily trade Thomas, 2018 Brooklyn, and some other assets for him.  The only real concern is losing Westbrook next summer.

Actually, I think quoting those stats is a pretty simplistic way of looking at things.

Points 23.5 - Sure... but he shot 42% and 29% from three doing it.  Negative

Assists:  10.4 - That's nice, but he had the HIGHEST usage rate in the league and his assist-to-turnover ratio wasn't even in the top 25. 

Rebounds:  7.8: - Ask me again if I care about my point guard getting a lot of rebounds. 

TS%:  55.4%: So, 123rd in the league then?  Uhh... ok. 

Yes, if we let him have a Rondonian hold over the offense, he'd continue to rack up tons of inflated statistics.  But that's not the style of play Brad Stevens runs.  We had a Top 5 offense last year because we operate under a pace-and-space offense that puts a priority on shooting.   Westbrook isn't a good shooter and he requires the ball to be effective.  And his efficiency took a hit when Durant sat out the majority of the 2014-15 season (42% shooting).   Furthermore, it's debatable how much he even helps that team win.  When he himself missed a large chunk of time in 2013-14, Durant's efficiency wasn't impacted at all.  He actually flourished without Westbrook.  The team went 26-11 (their typical win pace) and Durant was incredible with the opportunity to control the ball more without Westbrook stinking up the joint.  When Durant missed time, the Thunder were a borderline .500 team.

He's an ok player.  He's a bad fit here, though.  And I suspect he's going to get exposed soon as being overrated.  All-star?  Sure.  Super-star?  No.

Um, Westbrook shot over 45%, which among PG's ranked him 6th.  Not a great three point shooter, but gets to the line more than any other PG and shot a respectable 81.2%.  That TS% of 55 is better than PG's like Tony Parker who shot much better from the field.  Heck even Thomas was just at 56.2% (so only nominally better than RW).  You can't compare a PG's TS% with the entire league, that is just nonsense.

And no question he had a fair amount of turnovers, but his A/T ratio is still pretty solid (again better than Thomas as well as Curry, Lowry, Irving, Lillard, Dragic). 

Westbrook is a without question a top 10 player in the league and you could make a strong argument he is a top 5 player.  He would be a significant upgrade over every single player on this team (including Horford).  He is a real legit superstar.  Those players don't grow on trees.  Heck Boston hasn't had one of those in their prime since Larry Bird (Pierce was a HOFer, but he wasn't a superstar, not like Westbrook and KG was past his prime when he came to Boston).

I look forward to seeing if he can make the playoffs this season without Durant.  I have my doubts.

[sirnastee]

I don't understand how Westbrook and J. Butler are overrated while the sixers big men are supposedly the greatest... haha

[Beat LA]

I'm seeing people willing to trade IT for Westbrook?

That would be the death knell for this franchise for the next 10 years and for all the goodwill it has built up with players and agents.

Like it or not, IT is the face of this franchise right now and a MAJOR reason why Horford is here.

To trade IT right now would make Ainge and the franchise persona non grata with players in the NBA as well as many of our own players.

CAN'T trade IT right now.

Nope. It's a business. Loyalty is great, but loyalty at the expense of a championship is for losers. Westbrook is indisputably a much, much better player. If OKC offered Westbrook for Isaiah straight up, even you would take it. It's just a matter of Isaiah plus what. I would NOT want to give up Smart or Brown. Any other prospect, though. Every other player on a rookie deal, if OKC wanted them. Isaiah and the Seven Noobs, lol, why not. Plus a 1st, which one (or two) yet to be determined. But a version of this would be the realistic minimum, I think, in the event that OKC has no leverage.

1. Isaiah (plus filler if need be, i.e., Jerebko)
2. Olynyk
3. One or more of Yabusele/Zizic/Jackson/Bentil/Rozier/Hunter/Mickey/Nader
4. Brooklyn 2018 1st

Maybe if OKC is really bent over a barrel, that Brooklyn pick could be replaced by the Memphis pick plus the Clippers pick?

Westbrook
Smart
Brown
Crowder
Horford

Bradley and whomever off the bench.

Looks weak, right?

Bad shooting, therefore bad spacing? But Westbrook-Crowder-Horford can shoot. Enough, anyway. What looks bad is starting Smart and Brown. But if Smart and Brown can be 30-33% shooters from three, too, then we're golden. That'd make every position three-capable. Now imagine that Smart and Brown fulfill their potential and wind up someday both counted as two-way stars. No team weaknesses, then. Even this year, the defense would be menacing.

EDIT: If shooting would still be too big of a weakness, then replace Smart with Bradley, bring Smart off the bench as a sixth man who can play the 1 or 2 or 3. Defense won't suffer too much with Smart benched, since the guy replacing him is an All-Defensive guard.

Christ, Ainge's approach has seemingly turned a great number of people on here into Gordon Gekko, lol .

In regards to Westbrook, why would you want a guy who will be 28 in November if you don't have the other pieces in place?  You'd only have a very short window with such a team that would be made even shorter, possibly, given his impending free agency.  If we were going to hit the reset button, we should have done so on draft night, imo, but noooooo, lol .

[j804]

I'm sure we would be all over him the thing is I doubt he'd want to come here long term.

[Phil125]

The number one reason Durant left OKC was Westbrook.  He's knows he's a problem.  We do not need that problem.

I'd love to see him go to the Lakers.

[Dino Pitino]

Now that I understand it'd only be a one year rental...

The Memphis 1st, the Clippers 1st, our own 2018 1st, plus whichever non-Smart non-Brown prospects OKC wants. That's it. Preferably not Olynyk. We get to keep everyone meaningful and both Brooklyn picks. Only way I'd do it as a rental. Own the smallball chaos for a year, play up Jaylen and develop him asap to see if he's got first year magic in him, use Isaiah as Super Sixth Man, try to dethrone Cleveland and topple the Warriors.

Westbrook/Isaiah
Bradley/Smart
Brown
Crowder/Amir
Horford/Olynyk

Beast defense. Nasty offense. So long as Jaylen is legit.

[CoachBo]

Good deal.

The entertainment is back. This thread is just full of laughs.

If Ainge would refuse to move Jaylen Brown for Russell Westbrook, he'd be laughed out of the league.

Justifiably.

SMH.

[Dino Pitino]

Good deal.

The entertainment is back. This thread is just full of laughs.

Why don't you take the summer off and come back for the preseason opener?

[CoachBo]

Good deal.

The entertainment is back. This thread is just full of laughs.

Why don't you take the summer off and come back for the preseason opener?

Accountability is tough, eh?

[Dino Pitino]

Good deal.

The entertainment is back. This thread is just full of laughs.

Why don't you take the summer off and come back for the preseason opener?

Accountability is tough, eh?

Guy...

Who do you think you are holding to account?

Enjoy your summer, let the bad vibes go, chill out, feel the cool breeze down by the beach, save yourself from the wasted energy of trying (and failing) to ruin everyone else's buzz.

[iadera]

Exec: Russell Westbrook 'Hundred Percent Gone' From OKC No Matter Kevin Durant's Decision.