Possible trade idea to built a top contender

[crimson_stallion]

Ok guys, here is my idea on how to proceed now that we have Horford - let me know what you think. 

Deal #1

Boston sends:
- Avery Bradley ($8.3M)
- Jae Crowder ($6.2M)
- James Young ($1.8M)
- RJ Hunter ($1.2M)
- Future unprotected Nets first rounder (2017 swap rights, or 2018)
Total out: $17.5M

Chicago sends:
- Jimmmy Butler ($17.6M)
Total in: $17.5M

Reasoning:
The Bulls reportedly were willing to offer Jimmy Butler in return for Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder, a #3 pick, and filler.  Ainge declined because he didn't want to give up half of our team just to add Butler.  Now circumstances have changed.  Boston gets their man without taking up any additinal cap space, and Chicago gets a deal similar to what they originally asked for - everybody is happy.


Deal #2

Boston sends:
* Marcus Smart ($3.6M)
* Jordan Mickey ($1.2M)
* A future non-Brooklyn first (Memphis or Clippers, perhaps)
Total out: $4.8M

Philly sends:
* Nerlens Noel ($4.4M)
Total out: $4.4M

Reasoning:
With Horfords provides the offensive versatility, floor stretchging and veteran savvy.  Nerlens Noel provides length, rebounding, shot blocking and defensive versatility...and should develop nicely as a Horford's student.  Philly gets the young PG they need so desperately, gets a very talented young big in Mickey (who is locked up long term on the cheap), and gets a future first rounder that could be quite lucrative.  It's an overpay for Boston, but given the circumstances it's worth it.


Deal #3
Boston Signs Kevin Durant

Reasoning:
With Thomas, Butler, Horford and Noel all locked in as Celtics, it would be VERY hard for Durant to turn down the Celtics.  It's almost certain he'd sign with us.


Deal #4
Boston accepts the second year deal for Jonas Jerebko, declines the second year deal for Amir Johnson.

Reasoning:
Depth


Deal #5
Boston matches all offers, re-signs Jared Sullinger.

Reasoning:
Sully's conditioning is a big issue as a starter, but in restricted minutes of the bench he could be a major asset and a huge contributer in a 6th man type role.  It's likely going to be a big overpay, but if it helps add the depth we need to compete for a title, it's worth the cost. 


Final Celtics Roster

PG: Isaiah Thomas / Dimetrius Jackson
SG: Jimmy Butler / Terry Rozier
SF: Kevin Durant / Jaylen Brown
PF: Al Horford / Jared Sullinger / Ben Bentil
C: Nerlens Noel / Kelly Olynyk / Ante Zizic

That's one hell of a 12-man roster there...who in the NBA could realistically beat that team in a 7 game series?

Plus you have enough young talent (including our 'draft and stash' guys and our many future picks) to keep the team competitive  for years, even after Horford's deal expires.

[PAOBoston]

Or we could keep everyone and just sign Durant. The C's would be contenders and have great depth.

[danglertx]

More Noel trade ideas...great.

[slamtheking]

Or we could keep everyone and just sign Durant. The C's would be contenders and have great depth.

I'd go with this one.

[jpotter33]

I'd rather have Smart on the bench than Brown. Brown might have the higher upside, but he'll never reach it behind KD. He's also a long way off from being a genuine contributor; whereas, we know Marcus will help anytime he's out on the floor. I think a Brown/non-Brooklyn pick for Noel/Covington swap works very well for both sides.

[flybono]

Your nuts

[mahonedog88]

Your trade ideas for Butler and Noel are actually not terrible.  The bench needs work.  If you have a starting 5 that contains Butler, Durant, Horford, AND Noel, I think you can afford to putting IT back as the 6th man, especially without Evan Turner on the roster now.

So that means you gotta either sign a cheap (although that word has new meaning in today's NBA) and effective point guard that can start the offense and hit a jump shot...somebody like Steve Blake or Grievis Vasquez, or you hand the reigns over to Terry Rozier.  I would also try switch out RJ Hunter for someone else only because this team needs shooting options.

I also wouldn't mind keeping Jerebko, letting Sully walk, and using whatever free agent money you have left to improve the depth.  Overall though, I like the direction of where your head's at.  A starting 5 that contains Butler, Durant, Horford, and Noel and then IT as the 6th man is NOTHING to sneeze at.

[mrceltics2013]

Here is my issue with every last trade scenario that goes on around here. The thing that confuses me is that we brag about how good (not great) our team is, We understand that everyone and their mothers say we are ONE superstar away from contending, we are finally getting looked at as a good free agent hotspot because of our current team (not just the core), then why in the hell are we trying to trade the farm???

Granted all I want on this team are players who WANT to be here and Noel for dang sure wants to be here, but insisting that we do any trades period is silly too me. If Durant signs its because he likes the direction of out CURRENT roster and our CURRENT future assets. A trade would get rid of all that would it not?

[RockinRyA]

I dont like trades that'll lose us Bradley, Crowder or Smart and keeps Sully.

If we get Durant, I'd rather keep blue-collar guys like Bradley, Smart and Crowder. Low maintenance guys are perfect to complement Durant+IT. I actually only liked getting Butler if we wont be getting Durant.

[crimson_stallion]

I dont like trades that'll lose us Bradley, Crowder or Smart and keeps Sully.

If we get Durant, I'd rather keep blue-collar guys like Bradley, Smart and Crowder. Low maintenance guys are perfect to complement Durant+IT. I actually only liked getting Butler if we wont be getting Durant.

The problems is that at this point, we don't know if simply adding Horford alone is going to be enough to get Durant to come here. 

News I read the past week or so have stated that Durant will go to the team that he feels offers the best opportunity to win a championship.

The current Celtics squad, with Al Horford added, is still not close to being a match for the Warriors or Cavs...so what reason would Durant have for choosing Boston over Golden State, even with Horford?

If we brought Butler and Noel in to Boston, then that gives us a core of Thomas, Butler, Horford and Noel in our stating five. That core, even without Durant, is right up there with the Cavs and the Warriors starting core - so from a talent standpoint, it puts the Celtics on level ground with those teams. 

If Durant already likes Boston as a city, liked Brad Stevens, likes Boston's direction, etc - then going after him with a starting core as strong as that makes his decision to come here almost automatic.  He could come to a team with legitimate title aspirations AND be the undisputed #1 guy...or he could go to a Warriors team with title aspirations and play second fiddle to Steph Curry.

If we don't make additional moves to bring in another key player or two, then I think there is a very real risk that we could lose Durant to another team.  Butler is really the only other star player out there right now who we know is available, and who has the type of star power to help sway Durant towards Boston. 

Once we do get Durant here, that would be pretty much all of our cap space used up, so we probably wouldn't have the cash to go after any other strong free agents (e.g. Gasol).  Going after Butler / Noel with deals like this gives us the opportunity to add additional talent WITHOUT adding additional Salary.

Would you seriously rather have Bradley and Crowder as our starting 2 and 3 then Butler and Durant?  Because anyone who would has got to be legitimately out of their minds.

As for the bench comments - I don't see the problem.  We;d be taking a gamble in the perimeter with young players (Rozier, Jackson and Brown) sure.   But I also recall a time some years back when we gambled on some young unproven kids in our starting lineup (Rondo and Perkins) and ended up getting a championship ring out of it.

I also recall the Miami Heat witting two titles behind Lebron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, and Mario Chalmers and Udonis Haslem...and a bench of minimum salary nobodies.

When you have a starting five as good as Thomas/Butler/Durant/Horford/Noel you're going to be a top three team in the league, no questions asked.  Having guys like Olynyk, Sully, Jerebko, Brown, Rozier and Jackson on the bench would be the least of my concerns.

You also need to consider the "Lebron factor".  Everywhere Lebron James goes, he drags multiple stars with him and makes the team an instant contender.  Because of this, any team Lebron goes to ALWAYS ends up with a long queue of veterans who are dying to sign for veteran minimum deals just for the hope of being able to ride their way to a championship. 

If Boston had the proposed roster we would be such a strong contender that every single free agent vet on the market would be very strongly looking at us as a place to finish their careers - Danny Ainge would have himself a free agent buffet - finding a veteran guard or two to add to that team would certainly not be a problem...and there have already been reports that Ainge has interest in Luol Deng who could be a perfect backup to Durant...and would likely take a huge discount to have a shot at a title. 

Besides, you said you want blue collar, low maintenance guys?  Jimmy Butler is the pure definition of that type of guy.  You will have to look very hard to find a guy who is tougher, and has a stronger work ethic, then Jimmy Butler.  His entire reason for not getting along with Rose/Noah is because he was frustrated about the fact that those guys were being soft and weren't attending practice sessions

With 6'7" Butler at the SG spot and 6'10" Durant at SF, we would be a massive matchup problem for so many teams out there.  What teams can defend that?!?!?!

[crimson_stallion]

Your nuts

Why?  Reasoning?

[crimson_stallion]

I'd rather have Smart on the bench than Brown. Brown might have the higher upside, but he'll never reach it behind KD. He's also a long way off from being a genuine contributor; whereas, we know Marcus will help anytime he's out on the floor. I think a Brown/non-Brooklyn pick for Noel/Covington swap works very well for both sides.

I would rather give up Smart then Brown, personally.  Smart has his plus sides, but he has a limited ceiling...and with our current roster it's easier for us to make up for minutes at the guard spots then it is for us to make up minutes at the SF spot, where trading Brown would leave us with no backup at all (now that Turner is gone).

I'm also not sure Philly have any interest in Brown - they specifically wanted a PG in this draft.  Trading Covington for Brown and a pick does very little to aid them in getting that PG. If I were the Sixers, I would have zero interst in that deal. 

However adding Mickey, Smart and a pick is something I'd have to accept given the current log jam up front and the gaping hole at the PG spot.  Adding Smart gives them the PG they desperately need, and adding Mickey gives them some very affordable insurance for Embiid, in case his health concerns continue to create trouble. I couldn't turn that down if I were Philly, especially given that Noel is (for the most part) expendable.

You guys have to remember, trades are not one sided deals.  Both teams need to believe that they are getting something positive for a trade, otherwise the trade isn't going to happen (e.g. draft day 2016).  I would love to offer the Sixers some lowball offer for Noel, but if they don't accept the deal it's ultimately fruitless. 

Hell now that we have Horford, I would even consider a deal for Okafor.  Much as I dislike Okafor, having a stretch four who is decent defensively (Horford) makes Okafor a less awkward fit here. 

[jpotter33]

I'd rather have Smart on the bench than Brown. Brown might have the higher upside, but he'll never reach it behind KD. He's also a long way off from being a genuine contributor; whereas, we know Marcus will help anytime he's out on the floor. I think a Brown/non-Brooklyn pick for Noel/Covington swap works very well for both sides.

I would rather give up Smart then Brown, personally.  Smart has his plus sides, but he has a limited ceiling...and with our current roster it's easier for us to make up for minutes at the guard spots then it is for us to make up minutes at the SF spot, where trading Brown would leave us with no backup at all (now that Turner is gone).

I'm also not sure Philly have any interest in Brown - they specifically wanted a PG in this draft.  Trading Covington for Brown and a pick does very little to aid them in getting that PG. If I were the Sixers, I would have zero interst in that deal. 

However adding Mickey, Smart and a pick is something I'd have to accept given the current log jam up front and the gaping hole at the PG spot.  Adding Smart gives them the PG they desperately need, and adding Mickey gives them some very affordable insurance for Embiid, in case his health concerns continue to create trouble. I couldn't turn that down if I were Philly, especially given that Noel is (for the most part) expendable.

You guys have to remember, trades are not one sided deals.  Both teams need to believe that they are getting something positive for a trade, otherwise the trade isn't going to happen (e.g. draft day 2016).  I would love to offer the Sixers some lowball offer for Noel, but if they don't accept the deal it's ultimately fruitless. 

Hell now that we have Horford, I would even consider a deal for Okafor.  Much as I dislike Okafor, having a stretch four who is decent defensively (Horford) makes Okafor a less awkward fit here.

You just said that Smart has a limited ceiling compared to Brown, so obviously they'd be getting more value in Brown than Smart lol They're just as empty at the 3 spot as the guard spot.

[crimson_stallion]

More Noel trade ideas...great.

I'm not by any means obsessed with the idea of Trading for Noel, but the simple facts of the matter are:

1) With Horford added, we are still short one starting big man
2) We know for a fact that Noel is available, as we could have had him during the draft
3) Noel can rebound, defend and protect the paint - the three areas where Horford is not great
4) We could acquire him by trade, without eating into the cap space we need for Durant

If you can think of another center who meets all of the above criteria, and whom you feel makes more sense, then by all means...I am all ears.  I'd much rather make a trade for Noel rather than move forward with Olynyk, Mickey, Amir or Jerebko as a starting big.

[crimson_stallion]

I'd rather have Smart on the bench than Brown. Brown might have the higher upside, but he'll never reach it behind KD. He's also a long way off from being a genuine contributor; whereas, we know Marcus will help anytime he's out on the floor. I think a Brown/non-Brooklyn pick for Noel/Covington swap works very well for both sides.

I would rather give up Smart then Brown, personally.  Smart has his plus sides, but he has a limited ceiling...and with our current roster it's easier for us to make up for minutes at the guard spots then it is for us to make up minutes at the SF spot, where trading Brown would leave us with no backup at all (now that Turner is gone).

I'm also not sure Philly have any interest in Brown - they specifically wanted a PG in this draft.  Trading Covington for Brown and a pick does very little to aid them in getting that PG. If I were the Sixers, I would have zero interst in that deal. 

However adding Mickey, Smart and a pick is something I'd have to accept given the current log jam up front and the gaping hole at the PG spot.  Adding Smart gives them the PG they desperately need, and adding Mickey gives them some very affordable insurance for Embiid, in case his health concerns continue to create trouble. I couldn't turn that down if I were Philly, especially given that Noel is (for the most part) expendable.

You guys have to remember, trades are not one sided deals.  Both teams need to believe that they are getting something positive for a trade, otherwise the trade isn't going to happen (e.g. draft day 2016).  I would love to offer the Sixers some lowball offer for Noel, but if they don't accept the deal it's ultimately fruitless. 

Hell now that we have Horford, I would even consider a deal for Okafor.  Much as I dislike Okafor, having a stretch four who is decent defensively (Horford) makes Okafor a less awkward fit here.

You just said that Smart has a limited ceiling compared to Brown, so obviously they'd be getting more value in Brown than Smart lol They're just as empty at the 3 spot as the guard spot.

Covington is a three - so if they get Smart without having to give up Covington, then they are better off.

Saric is also a three, so if he comes over to the NBA this season (and there has been speculation that he will) then that means even less need for a three.

On the other hand Philly's only PG is Ish Smith, who about to be signed by the Pistons. 

The Sixers just signed Jerryd Bayless - he's not a legit Point Guard.  He's a pure shooting guard who has been forced to play some point at times by pure necessity.  Adding Smart would give them a Smart/Bayless backcourt, which actually wouldn't be half bad.

Smart could cover for Bayless' defensive shortcomings.  Meanwhile Bayless and Covington can both shoot the three, which helps to make up for Smart's shooting woes. 

With Smart / Bayless / Saric / Simmons / Embiid (and Okafor, Covington off the bench) the Sixers would actually have a pretty decent starting five and a strong core to build around moving forward.  As long as they remain without a solid PG, they are hat major risk of competing for last spot again.  Not only is that bad for Philly, it's also bad for our Brooklyn pick - which Philly threatens more then any other team.