Author Topic: Dwight Howard agrees to 3-year, $70.5M deal with Atlanta Hawks  (Read 9412 times)

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Re: Dwight Howard agrees to 3-year, $70.5M deal with Atlanta Hawks
« Reply #75 on: July 01, 2016, 07:41:17 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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I can forget about Milsap now. Hawks aren't going to rebuild.

Re: Dwight Howard agrees to 3-year, $70.5M deal with Atlanta Hawks
« Reply #76 on: July 01, 2016, 07:44:03 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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Howard is not the type of center the C's are looking for style wise. He lives under the basket on the offensive end. The lanes to the basket will close down, pace will slow down, and several players on the Celtics will have part of their game stifled. Not to mention his reputation for not being a good locker room guy.

Why Atlanta signed him I have no idea, because their style is similar to the C's.

Maybe they know something we don't know in refinance to Al Horford. I hoping it's a positive thing, like he want's out, and is seriously looking at Boston.

Re: Dwight Howard agrees to 3-year, $70.5M deal with Atlanta Hawks
« Reply #77 on: July 01, 2016, 07:45:45 PM »

Offline BigDogPitbull

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I didn't expect him to be signed so early.  If we don't end up with Horford this whole off season is an absolute disgrace.

Re: Dwight Howard agrees to 3-year, $70.5M deal with Atlanta Hawks
« Reply #78 on: July 01, 2016, 07:49:04 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Maybe they know something we don't know in refinance to Al Horford. I hoping it's a positive thing, like he want's out, and is seriously looking at Boston.
I agree something is up Hordford is out. Thinking Heat, C's or Thunder.

Re: Dwight Howard agrees to 3-year, $70.5M deal with Atlanta Hawks
« Reply #79 on: July 01, 2016, 08:12:58 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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$23.5m per isn't bad at all.  That's disappointing.

It's beyond dissapointmenting

Now we have to try and throw something like $26m at a declining glorified role player in Al Horford...very depressing considering Howard could have been a real difference maker here.

Anmoys me because im pretty sure he would have come here if he was the top priority, but the morons who are the Boston Celtics management decided to make it publicly obvious that Al Horford is their priority...prob oushed Dwight away

Sorry to compound the issue, but $113M / 4 is $28.25M, not $26M. I was also on board with Dwight over Horford, but if somehow we do walk away with Durant, this will be the reason.

I like that Danny is trying to go all in. It likely won't work, but he sure is trying!

I agree Howard would have improved us, but I'm not sure he'll ever be a starter on a title winner with is FT shooting, so I can live with the decision to prioritize Horford.

Especially if the reports are true, and Horford really is on KD's go-get list.

This is the year to swing for the fences in FA, and Danny is doing just that.  Should we strike out, we still are a solid team and we'll get to see if this kid Brown can help us get to 50 wins.

The free throw shooting is a non-issue.  Yet another thing that people over-dramatise.

Shaq was historically famous for being a terrible free throw shooter - may I ask how many titles he has won as a starting center?

Utilise him properly and Dwight Howard is going to give you somewhere between 16/11 and 18/12 while also anchoring your defence and intimidating opponents away from even trying to get to the basket against you...and he's proven that he performs on the playoff stage.

Horford will give you 15 and 8 if you're lucky, and has proven he folds like an origami duck in the playoffs - but we'd choose him (for more money) because he can hit free throws?

Cmon man!

Dwight will be THE man in Atlanta, since they kinda have nobody else now.  With the extra touches he gets there his numbers are going to skyrocket...and if Boston and up with Horford (and don't get Durant along with him) they are going to look like the biggest bunch of morons this world has seen.

those are all fair points.  TP to you good sir, always appreciate your analysis. 

I guess if Horford leads to KD, then all is forgiven.  If not, everything you said is valid.
Some good points indeed. But it still strikes me that more than stats is the ability to play pace and space basketball, as loved by CBS. Horford can do it. Howard can't.

I seriously don't get this ridiculous obsession everybody has with jump shooting bigs these days. I get that it's the whole "flavour of the month" thing, but when are people going to realise that there is more to basketball then "lets make a team full of guys who shoot threes"?

Do you guys not realise - Brad Stevens is a highly adaptable coach.  He utilises this "pace and space" offence for a reason - because it's what best suits the roster we have. 

Boston doesn't have star power.  We don't have guys who can dominate one-on-one on offence beyond Thomas, who cannot do it on his own.  Because we lack individual star power and our biggest advantage is out depth, the best way for this Celtics team to win games is to utilise that depth by making sure that EVERYBODY gets involved in the offence so that we can confuse the defence by having them never know where the attack will be coming from.  That is why we have a "pace and space" system in Boston.

If we had an opportunity to bring in star talent, then Brad would make whatever changes he had to in order to develop an offensive scheme that fits (and makes the most of) the star talent we bring in.

Boston doesn't have a single inside scoring threat - not one!! We don't have one guy who we can get the ball to in the paint, who can get us easy baskets down low.  The closest thing we have to that is honestly probably Amir Johnson, followed by the incumbent Jared Sullinger.

Our lack of an inside threat makes us easier to defend, because teams can ignore our bigs.  They can focus their attention on stopping Isaiah from driving as a first priority, and then as a second priority keep the rest of the defence focused on our shooters.

Despite his age and unspectacular array of post moves, Dwight Howard is still a dominant offensive force in the paint.  He is still a guy who's incredibly difficult to defend with single coverage, and who is going to draw double teams down low on a consistent basis. This opens up space for shooters and potentially opens up driving lanes for guys attacking the basket. 

When he's not drawing double teams, off the ball, the defence has to be constantly aware of where he is - because if you leave Dwight for an instant down low, and allow an entry pass, you've just given up two points guaranteed.

Now try to imagine a Boston team that has Dwight Howard and Kevin Durant, for argument's sake. 

Nobody can take their eyes of Durant, he'll be drawing doubles on the perimeter almost every time he touches the ball.  When he doesn't have the ball, teams will be throwing all their defence at trying to deny him the ball.

Nobody can take their eyes of Dwight.  He'll be drawing doubles in the paint almost every time he touches the ball,and teams will focus a ton of their defensive attention on denying him the ball while he's down there.

That's all of an opposing team's defence focused entirely on two guys, for 30+ minutes a game. 

Now you have Isaiah Thomas constantly cutting/driving in to the paint - what is the defence to do?  You have to stop him.  Very few can stop Thomas one-one-one because he's just too quick and skilled.  Play off him and he'll shoot it.  Go up on him and hell blow straight by you for an easy layup or floater.  Teams have no choice, the have to send help and sag off somebody.  They can't sag off Dwight and they can't sag off Durant - both of those guys are unstoppable of you give them a hint of daylight.  So you need to leave Bradley or Crowder/Olynyk (depending what position you are playing Durant at).  Leave either of those guys free and you have a wide open three that's not going to miss very often.  When they do miss, they have one of the best rebounders in the league (Dwight) down there gobbling up offensive rebounds for second chance opportunities. 

On defence you have Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder and Dwight Howard all on the court at once.  You have the perimeter locked down with two of the top perimeter defenders in the NBA, and the paint locked down with one of the best paint protectors of all time.  Durant isn't an elite defender but he's pretty competent and can hold his own and create problems with his length.    Pretty tough lineup to score on.

It's a nightmare - the ultimate balanced attack.  Practically impossible to defend.

Put Horford in to that scheme in Dwight's place and it doesn't work because Horford is going to spend most of his time hovering around the perimeter...and he's never going to draw more then one defender out there on the three point line, so defenders can just focus on Durant.  If Thomas drives then one guy can come over to help on Thomas, and the others can stick to the perimeter.  It's still tough to defend with all those shooters, but it's nowhere near as dangerous as the first scenario because ALL of your offense is spaced out around the perimeter. 

Now that team is going to jack a lot of jumpers - but with Horford/Durant/Olynyk as your front court rotation, you don't have a single above average rebounder...so second chances are going to be limited.  If you try to use Horford in Howard's position down it wont work, because Horford at this point in his career CANNOT create offence in the paint.  We saw that clear as day in the playoff series against us - he couldn't score against Amir, he couldn't score against Jerebko, and he even struggled to score when he had Crowder on him. He was only consistently making baskets down low when he had Sullinger on him - otherwise all of his baskets were on open looks.  Horford isn't drawing any double teams down low...almost every team in the league can cover him with single coverage.  He's not drawing the type of attention Dwight does.  He's also not getting your opponent in foul trouble like Dwight does.

Defensively Horford is actually pretty solid, but he's not by any means intimidating.  Lebron James is not going to say "oh, I better not drive right now, Horford is there'.  Nobody is saying that. But if one of those guys is thinking of driving, and Dwight Howard is right in front of them - they may very easily change their mind.  It's the sheer intimidation factor that Dwight provides.  He's a three time DPOTY has been a great shot blocker for years - guys don't forget that.  You see Dwight standing in your way, you're probably changing your mind about attacking the basket.

Look as I said earlier, Horford is a nice player - I'm not denying that. He's a guy who is competent at pretty much everything, across the board.  There is no shame in that.  But there is nothing (absolutely nothing) that Horford does at a standout level.  He's merely "above average" at everything, which - when combined - makes him a very nice overall player. 

But because he's not a standout at anything, he's never going to be the type of player teams "gameplan" against.  He's not going to impact the way teams play you, or force teams to change their strategies because of his presence.  Just like Tommy said (and he was dead right) - you don't change your gameplan because of Al Horford.

Horford improves your team no doubt - but he doesn't take you from "good playoff team" to "contender".  Not even close.  The guys who do that are the guys who are legit stars, who have one or two areas of the game where they can well and truly dominate.

Durant is a guy who can have that type of impact.  So is Dwight Howard.  Horford is not.



Re: Dwight Howard agrees to 3-year, $70.5M deal with Atlanta Hawks
« Reply #80 on: July 01, 2016, 08:30:23 PM »

Offline greenhead85

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There goes the LeBron neutralizer. He'd pummel him inside.

Re: Dwight Howard agrees to 3-year, $70.5M deal with Atlanta Hawks
« Reply #81 on: July 01, 2016, 08:43:57 PM »

Offline MBunge

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Durant is a guy who can have that type of impact.  So is Dwight Howard.  Horford is not.

I would have been happy to have Howard a Celtic but he just spent the last four years NOT having that kind of impact.

One thing to consider is that not only do we need to think about future free agents and trade possibilities, we're also going to need to resign our own guys.  Bradley, IT and KO will all need to be resigned in two seasons and we can see how expensive that's going to be.

Now, if we strike out on Horford and Durant, it will be fair to criticize Ainge for his apparent lukewarm interest in Howard.  There's no way Howard signs with Atlanta this fast if we tell his agent we're seriously considering giving him more money.  But let's see what shakes out.

Mike


Re: Dwight Howard agrees to 3-year, $70.5M deal with Atlanta Hawks
« Reply #82 on: July 01, 2016, 08:50:16 PM »

Offline mctyson

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LOL this blog just gets better by the day.  Basically nonstop anti-Howard talk but when he signs a 3 year deal for nearly $24M a year, suddenly he is cheap and we want him?  Unbelievable.

To me this signals that Horford is gone from ATL. 

Re: Dwight Howard agrees to 3-year, $70.5M deal with Atlanta Hawks
« Reply #83 on: July 01, 2016, 08:56:10 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Durant is a guy who can have that type of impact.  So is Dwight Howard.  Horford is not.

I would have been happy to have Howard a Celtic but he just spent the last four years NOT having that kind of impact.

One thing to consider is that not only do we need to think about future free agents and trade possibilities, we're also going to need to resign our own guys.  Bradley, IT and KO will all need to be resigned in two seasons and we can see how expensive that's going to be.

Now, if we strike out on Horford and Durant, it will be fair to criticize Ainge for his apparent lukewarm interest in Howard.  There's no way Howard signs with Atlanta this fast if we tell his agent we're seriously considering giving him more money.  But let's see what shakes out.

Mike

19.5 points, 13 rebounds, 1.9 blocks, 59% FG
19 points, 12.7 rebounds, 1.6 blocks 59% FG
15.4 points, 13.2 rebounds, 1.8 blocks, 62% FG

Those are Dwight's Per 36 numbers over the past three seasons, and not once in that three year stretch did he average more than 12.5 FGA Per 36.

Houston's record before acquiring Dwight (12/13): 45-37, 0.549
Houston's record after acquiring Dwight (13/14): 54-28, 0.658
Net Gain/loss: +9 wins

If Boston added 9 wins to our record from last season we would go 57-25 which would have is tied with the Cleveland Cavaliers as the #1 seed in the East, and the equal 3rd best record in the entire league. 

Obviously we can't just assume that Dwight would add 9 wins here just because he added 9 wins when he went to Houston, but the fact is that there is evidence to suggest that obtaining Howard has a MAJOR positive impact on Houston's effectiveness as a team - the instant Dwight got there people were talking about the Rockets as a potential contender, and their 65% win record in his first season as a Rocket made that seem like a pretty reasonable argument.   Nobody even joked about that team being a contender before Dwight got there.

Prior to this, we all know the impact Dwight had in Orlando - carrying a number of very miserable Orlando teams deep in the playoffs.

The only place Dwight went and didnt make a team great was the Lakers, but that entire team was struggling with injuries and chemistry and really never had a chance from the start.

So yes, you could argue that Dwight could have that type of impact here, and that he DID have that type of impact in Houston.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 09:03:19 PM by crimson_stallion »

Re: Dwight Howard agrees to 3-year, $70.5M deal with Atlanta Hawks
« Reply #84 on: July 01, 2016, 09:08:36 PM »

Offline MBunge

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Durant is a guy who can have that type of impact.  So is Dwight Howard.  Horford is not.

I would have been happy to have Howard a Celtic but he just spent the last four years NOT having that kind of impact.

One thing to consider is that not only do we need to think about future free agents and trade possibilities, we're also going to need to resign our own guys.  Bradley, IT and KO will all need to be resigned in two seasons and we can see how expensive that's going to be.

Now, if we strike out on Horford and Durant, it will be fair to criticize Ainge for his apparent lukewarm interest in Howard.  There's no way Howard signs with Atlanta this fast if we tell his agent we're seriously considering giving him more money.  But let's see what shakes out.

Mike

19.5 points, 13 rebounds, 1.9 blocks, 59% FG
19 points, 12.7 rebounds, 1.6 blocks 59% FG
15.4 points, 13.2 rebounds, 1.8 blocks, 62% FG

Those are Dwight's Per 36 numbers over the past three seasons, and not once in that three year stretch did he average more than 12.5 FGA Per 36.

Houston's record before acquiring Dwight (12/13): 45-37, 0.549
Houston's record after acquiring Dwight (13/14): 54-28, 0.658
Net Gain/loss: +9 wins

If Boston added 9 wins to our record from last season we would go 57-25 which would have is tied with the Cleveland Cavaliers as the #1 seed in the East, and the equal 3rd best record in the entire league.

So yes, you could argue that Dwight could have that type of impact here, and that he DID have that type of impact in Houston.

In three years with Dwight, Houston was never a contender.  Two first round playoff exits and one trip to the conference finals where they got spanked, 4-1, by the Warriors.

Dwight could still be a force but Horford is clearly the more versatile player, fits more easily into what Boston is doing and, given Dwight's apparent reputation around the league, probably makes Boston more attractive to other players.

Durant is head and shoulders above Horford.  With Howard, it's more of a push.  But if we don't wind up with at least Horford, it will be entirely correct to rip Ainge a new one for not putting enough effort into keeping Howard a viable option.

Mike

Re: Dwight Howard agrees to 3-year, $70.5M deal with Atlanta Hawks
« Reply #85 on: July 01, 2016, 09:33:44 PM »

Offline greece66

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Hawks now do not have enough cap space for both Horford and Bazemore

https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/749014173003214848

Re: Dwight Howard agrees to 3-year, $70.5M deal with Atlanta Hawks
« Reply #86 on: July 01, 2016, 09:34:42 PM »

Offline alldaboston

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Hawks now do not have enough cap space for both Horford and Bazemore

https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/749014173003214848

After that he said it's possible both go elsewhere:
https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/749014652332408832
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: Dwight Howard agrees to 3-year, $70.5M deal with Atlanta Hawks
« Reply #87 on: July 02, 2016, 12:30:32 PM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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I'm puzzled as to why Howard chose Atlanta over the C's or any other team for that matter. my suspicion of him over the yrs. has been that he's not a star that can handle the pressure of being the star and the expectations that come with it.

I guess that is the conclusion i'm going with. there's no one on Atlanta anymore so there's no expectations.

Re: Dwight Howard agrees to 3-year, $70.5M deal with Atlanta Hawks
« Reply #88 on: July 02, 2016, 01:34:49 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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I'm puzzled as to why Howard chose Atlanta over the C's or any other team for that matter. my suspicion of him over the yrs. has been that he's not a star that can handle the pressure of being the star and the expectations that come with it.

I guess that is the conclusion i'm going with. there's no one on Atlanta anymore so there's no expectations.

Nothing to really wonder about. Good situation for him and he's from Atlanta.

Re: Dwight Howard agrees to 3-year, $70.5M deal with Atlanta Hawks
« Reply #89 on: July 02, 2016, 01:35:58 PM »

Offline greece66

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Hawks now do not have enough cap space for both Horford and Bazemore

https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/749014173003214848

After that he said it's possible both go elsewhere:
https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/749014652332408832

iirc they also try to trade Millsap now. Atlanta has been very active this offseason.