Author Topic: I hope YOU never forget this draft as a Celtics fan  (Read 4772 times)

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Re: I hope YOU never forget this draft as a Celtics fan
« Reply #45 on: July 01, 2016, 10:49:25 AM »

Offline CoachBo

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Op you are right.  Celtics fans will never forget this draft.   It will be the draft that netted us Jaylen Brown, the best player drafted since Paul Pierce. Who knows he could be better than Pierce.   Sky is the limit.

Drop me a line when Brown learns how to shoot.
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Re: I hope YOU never forget this draft as a Celtics fan
« Reply #46 on: July 01, 2016, 10:52:27 AM »

Offline BitterJim

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Op you are right.  Celtics fans will never forget this draft.   It will be the draft that netted us Jaylen Brown, the best player drafted since Paul Pierce. Who knows he could be better than Pierce.   Sky is the limit.

Drop me a line when Brown learns how to shoot.

Ring ring!

https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/745657935360032768?s=09
I'm bitter.

Re: I hope YOU never forget this draft as a Celtics fan
« Reply #47 on: July 01, 2016, 10:54:16 AM »

Offline A Future of Stevens

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I don't really get why everyone thinks "if we don't overpay for a fringe all star" that we have sunk the ship for years to come. Granted everyone wants durant. But if you don't get him that can't be held against ainge.

If you looked at this offseason as needing fireworks, then yea it's a problem.

You can also look at it like this. This team won 48 games last year. When everyone tried to commit highway robbery on ainge, he didn't fold to pressure and drafted arguably one of the highest upside players in the draft. Will he be a bust? Maybe. So might all the other picks.

Then to free agency. Unless we get durant, I will pass on handing a max to horford. Regressing each year, partially because he is moving out of the paint. If we can nab a Howard for 4 years at 22 instead of 4 years of horford at 30, I'd be ecstatic. We will fill one of our biggest weaknesses (rim protection, inside scoring, rebounding in one) without giving up any assets.

These two moves alone would be awesome. We win over 50 next year, while bringing jaylen up in a winning environment. Work towards the future while retaining flexibility. It's honestly brilliant.
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Re: I hope YOU never forget this draft as a Celtics fan
« Reply #48 on: July 01, 2016, 11:04:26 AM »

Offline CelticGuardian

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Yeah, but we need established players... there's certain skills in which this roster is undeniably inadequate, 7 points in a playoff quarter should not be associated with the Boston Celtics name.

Re: I hope YOU never forget this draft as a Celtics fan
« Reply #49 on: July 01, 2016, 11:13:12 AM »

Offline td450

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Over the longest run, it may be that the best possible outcome is to play out our draft choices, and allow Ainge to hit his singles tweaking the roster for another year or more.

If we were to resign Turner and Amir and add one mid-priced shooter like Dudley, we'd likely win 4-6 more games next year. Is it so bad to watch this team improve at this pace?

The difference in perception around the league in the last year has been huge. Give Stevens another year to ratchet the success up one more notch, and along with the draft picks, we'd be sitting pretty without any major deals.

We are likely to end up with two more top 5 choices from NJ in the next two drafts.

Even if Ainge isn't a particularly insightful drafter, he is bound to hit on a star or two at some point. With just a little luck, we could have a pipeline full of talent for the next decade. That isn't a bad scenario.


Re: I hope YOU never forget this draft as a Celtics fan
« Reply #50 on: July 01, 2016, 11:14:37 AM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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I don't really get why everyone thinks "if we don't overpay for a fringe all star" that we have sunk the ship for years to come. Granted everyone wants durant. But if you don't get him that can't be held against ainge.

If you looked at this offseason as needing fireworks, then yea it's a problem.

You can also look at it like this. This team won 48 games last year. When everyone tried to commit highway robbery on ainge, he didn't fold to pressure and drafted arguably one of the highest upside players in the draft. Will he be a bust? Maybe. So might all the other picks.

Then to free agency. Unless we get durant, I will pass on handing a max to horford. Regressing each year, partially because he is moving out of the paint. If we can nab a Howard for 4 years at 22 instead of 4 years of horford at 30, I'd be ecstatic. We will fill one of our biggest weaknesses (rim protection, inside scoring, rebounding in one) without giving up any assets.

These two moves alone would be awesome. We win over 50 next year, while bringing jaylen up in a winning environment. Work towards the future while retaining flexibility. It's honestly brilliant.
very nice post. not everything has to work out exactly has the posters here envision for the celtics to do even better than then have been for the past 2 years. a tp for you and your post. thanks.
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Re: I hope YOU never forget this draft as a Celtics fan
« Reply #51 on: July 01, 2016, 11:14:41 AM »

Offline DarkAzcura

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A case can be made for exactly the opposite of you just said.

Make it

Danny Ainge has:

Obtained a first round choice for a coach that wanted to leave, and replaced him with probably the most appealing young coach in the league

Assembled a very young roster that won 48 games and that should improve next year even with no moves

Positioned the team with the most favorable contract situation in the league by far

In a league with insane inflation everywhere except with home grown rookies, obtained far and away the largest cache of first round draft choices in the league. This includes 3 consecutive Nets picks just as that franchise  is undergoing a complete collapse and is the clear favorite for last place in the league.

Gotten us meetings with the league's free agent elite for the first time in decades

_______

It is fair to say that he now has to close the deal and organize what he has into a contender, but his performance in the last 3 years has been spectacular.

It's a good set up but times running out.

I think some Celtic fans are letting their impatience from other sports' leagues seep into the NBA. This isn't baseball or football. You can't rebuild a team overnight. You can't go out and sign a ton of players with no regard to the salary cap (baseball). You can't cut your players and start fresh and have a contending team within two-three years (football). This is basketball. Soft hard caps, guaranteed contracts, restricted free agency, and a league built on a handful of superstars. It takes years to rebuild, and the only thing you can hope to do is maintain flexibility until the next star becomes available while continuing to go through the process. Luckily we have the BKN picks to work with in case trades and free agency do not work in our favor.

It's only been three years since this rebuild has started, and the Celtics have gone from 25 wins to 40 to 48, while netting meetings with three of the top free agents available on the market this summer. Not only do they have a top 7 team in the league getting attention from major free agents, they also have top lottery picks to work with from BKN. It's almost a dream position for any rebuilding team (except a team like Minny currently). That is a really good turnaround starting from essentially the ground up.

Times running out? This thing has only just begun, sorry to say. This is the NBA. This is how things work in this league.


You are correct.
Would you agree at some point you have to take a gamble either by trade or free agent signing?

These draft picks are very unpredictable and if you do hit, you will not know for a few years.

Not really. If the Celtics can't trade/sign for a superstar by next summer, I'd prefer them to trade guys like IT, Bradley, and/or Crowder before their contracts are up and start from the ground up with Smart/Brown/BKN 17/BKN 18 and our potentially high pick in 2018. That may stink to hear, but I feel it's their best bet at that point unfortunately. With Stevens around, though, I don't think they would go in that extreme a direction.

If they can't sign a star or trade for one by summer 2017, I guess they could make some of those potential cap killing moves like signing a Batum or Parsons type of player to a crazy contract and see how far they go in the playoffs in 17-18 (probably ECF and out) and just kinda ride that high for a couple years of "pretender status" until Smart, Brown, and the BKN picks hit their early-mid 20s. That's what can stink about the NBA. You can do everything right and still ultimately fail. The Celtics have put themselves in the best position of the current top 10 teams to add a star via trade and/or free agency, but ultimately it's up to the other party to play ball. What makes Ainge pretty good is that he gives himself flexibility to pivot if things don't work out.

Sounds to me like you're advocating tanking.

Unfortunately for all the posters here who guard Fireworks Stand Grousbeck's money like it was their own, there's a minimum they're going to have to reach in payroll.

So sadly, bombing the franchise back to Nets status as you propose isn't going to happen.

Yes, a couple years from now, I do think it may be a good idea to start over (trade guys like IT, Bradley, Crowder) if nothing can get done over the next two summers (including this one..). That's a lot of time. I'm just an advocate of what makes sense.

Even if they don't tank two seasons from now if they fail to get a contending team together, it wouldn't be the worst result, because Brown and BKN 17 could end up being the stars anyway a few years from now. I was actually lauding Ainge for the flexibility he has given this franchise. It wasn't as simple as being "an advocate of tanking." There's much more to it.

Re: I hope YOU never forget this draft as a Celtics fan
« Reply #52 on: July 01, 2016, 11:16:37 AM »

Offline footey

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I said on that day that Celtics fans would be the last to see the magnitude of what just happened to them (it's like when Ogaju was the only one around here who saw Doc's debacle coming).  But don't take this as a "gotcha" or "I told you so" thread because it's not.  If anything, I'm still saddened about how the whole thing unfolded.  If nothing happened in free agency (and it is looking like nothing will happen), we would've taken the satisfaction of nailing Jimmy Buttler or Okafor or Nerlens or Okafor and Nerlenes.  That would've have been huge to build on going forward. 

My prediction is what happened (or didn't happen) at the draft will impact the team for years.  Any trade that would net us any decent star would now cost us a arm and a leg.  That price Ainge didn't want to pay is now be doubled.  The value put on all the picks we have/had and our "assets" were extremely overrated.  And instead of cashing in to actually get some value for it, we snoozed.  Stop giving Danny Ainge a pass.  He's getting paid millions of dollars to get results, not to play head games.

You remind me of me about 10 years ago. Right after we traded the 5th pick in the draft, along with Delonte and Wally, for Ray Allen. I was so mad, I wrote Wyc a letter saying he was an idiot.  Of course, I had no idea that the KG deal would go down because of that trade.  Boy, was I embarrassed by my antics a couple of months later.

But that's all right. I am very emotionally invested in this team. And I see that you are as well. That is what this blog is for. To vent, and to express your viewpoint on how the team can get better, or criticize moves you don't like. 

What I have learned over time, however, is that Ainge is a very smart guy, and while he makes mistakes, his good decisions outweigh his bad ones (there have been a few) by a decent margin.

Re: I hope YOU never forget this draft as a Celtics fan
« Reply #53 on: July 01, 2016, 11:17:41 AM »

Offline CelticGuardian

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I don't really get why everyone thinks "if we don't overpay for a fringe all star" that we have sunk the ship for years to come. Granted everyone wants durant. But if you don't get him that can't be held against ainge.

If you looked at this offseason as needing fireworks, then yea it's a problem.

You can also look at it like this. This team won 48 games last year. When everyone tried to commit highway robbery on ainge, he didn't fold to pressure and drafted arguably one of the highest upside players in the draft. Will he be a bust? Maybe. So might all the other picks.

Then to free agency. Unless we get durant, I will pass on handing a max to horford. Regressing each year, partially because he is moving out of the paint. If we can nab a Howard for 4 years at 22 instead of 4 years of horford at 30, I'd be ecstatic. We will fill one of our biggest weaknesses (rim protection, inside scoring, rebounding in one) without giving up any assets.

These two moves alone would be awesome. We win over 50 next year, while bringing jaylen up in a winning environment. Work towards the future while retaining flexibility. It's honestly brilliant.

I think much of Ainge's lack of recent success in trades can be due to the fact he made a king's offer for pick #9 in last year's draft. The league most likely saw Ainge as desperate and willing to overpay. Also in this year's draft, teams picking around Jaylen's projected spot knew we Ainge didn't want any of guards knowing we are pretty much stacked at that spot...

I keep wondering about the possible trades would he had taken Dunn

Re: I hope YOU never forget this draft as a Celtics fan
« Reply #54 on: July 01, 2016, 11:17:42 AM »

Offline Clench123

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Clench is actually the kid Jaylen Brown dunked on. He is upset, and he is taking his anger out on Celtics Blog.

1. The price for Jimmy Butler or any other star was prohibitively expensive, would have gutted our team.

2. Okafor and Noel were not good options for the following reasons...
     
Okafor: Doesn't fit in Brads system well at all. Probably isn't worth the 3 by himself.
Noel: Not worth the 3 by himself. Package offered was Meh at best. More draft picks we don't need.

3. Kris Dunn is no measurably better or worse than Jaylen Brown, and Jaylen Brown is like 3 years younger.

So what I'm saying here Clench, is stop crying over milk that hasn't been spilled yet. If Dunn, Okafor, or Noel have breakout seasons, and Jaylen Brown flops miserably, then you can have your moment in the sun to say "I told you so".

Lol.  Thanks for the laugh.  I admire that kid for telling the truth.  Not only is Jaylen not Simmons, he's not even close.

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Re: I hope YOU never forget this draft as a Celtics fan
« Reply #55 on: July 01, 2016, 11:19:39 AM »

Offline Clench123

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Op you are right.  Celtics fans will never forget this draft.   It will be the draft that netted us Jaylen Brown, the best player drafted since Paul Pierce. Who knows he could be better than Pierce.   Sky is the limit.

Drop me a line when Brown learns how to shoot.

Ring ring!

https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/745657935360032768?s=09

Oh yea, why don't we take his word for it.

I always said when I left the Celtics, I could not go to heaven, because that would
 be a step down. I am pure 100 percent Celtic. I think if you slashed my wrists, my
 blood would’ve been green.  -  Bill "Greatest of All Time" Russell

Re: I hope YOU never forget this draft as a Celtics fan
« Reply #56 on: July 01, 2016, 11:21:17 AM »

Offline Sketch5

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Op you are right.  Celtics fans will never forget this draft.   It will be the draft that netted us Jaylen Brown, the best player drafted since Paul Pierce. Who knows he could be better than Pierce.   Sky is the limit.

Drop me a line when Brown learns how to shoot.

Yeah because a 19 year old has no chance to improve those things. ::)

Stevens said he liked how he shot it in both work outs, he shot it well, and that his shot isn't broken, it just needs reps and time. And he seemed more excited than any one in the interviews about him, and thats say's a lot.

Re: I hope YOU never forget this draft as a Celtics fan
« Reply #57 on: July 01, 2016, 11:23:32 AM »

Offline BitterJim

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Op you are right.  Celtics fans will never forget this draft.   It will be the draft that netted us Jaylen Brown, the best player drafted since Paul Pierce. Who knows he could be better than Pierce.   Sky is the limit.

Drop me a line when Brown learns how to shoot.

Ring ring!

https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/745657935360032768?s=09

Oh yea, why don't we take his word for it.

Are you saying that you think he lied about this?  That would have been an awful decision considering Ainge's love of high-character guys, and could have made the difference between us taking him and not taking him.  It's not like Ainge would see it and go "oh [dang] I guess I missed that, looks like I had it recorded wrong!", so there's nothing to gain (draft-position wise) by saying it. It's not like other GMs would use that as a reliable source without at least asking AInge
I'm bitter.

Re: I hope YOU never forget this draft as a Celtics fan
« Reply #58 on: July 01, 2016, 11:23:39 AM »

Offline knuckleballer

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Op you are right.  Celtics fans will never forget this draft.   It will be the draft that netted us Jaylen Brown, the best player drafted since Paul Pierce. Who knows he could be better than Pierce.   Sky is the limit.

Drop me a line when Brown learns how to shoot.

Ring ring!

https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/745657935360032768?s=09

Oh yea, why don't we take his word for it.

If he lied about that, don't you think he would look awful to the Celtics who just worked him and were considering drafting him and other teams as well?  I seriously doubt he lied.

Re: I hope YOU never forget this draft as a Celtics fan
« Reply #59 on: July 01, 2016, 11:23:51 AM »

Offline Clench123

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Op you are right.  Celtics fans will never forget this draft.   It will be the draft that netted us Jaylen Brown, the best player drafted since Paul Pierce. Who knows he could be better than Pierce.   Sky is the limit.

You wonna bet your entire account on celticsblog on it?  If it happens, my account is no more.  It it doesn't, yours is never seen again.  Deal?

I always said when I left the Celtics, I could not go to heaven, because that would
 be a step down. I am pure 100 percent Celtic. I think if you slashed my wrists, my
 blood would’ve been green.  -  Bill "Greatest of All Time" Russell