Author Topic: I won't get fooled again  (Read 8779 times)

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Re: I won't get fooled again
« Reply #75 on: June 30, 2016, 04:45:08 PM »

Offline flybono

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I hear you.

I just don't believe anything coming out of the front office any more.

Show me results, and maybe I'll start believing again. But I'm not going to hang my hat on this endless succession of moves that don't advance the product on the floor, like the 2016 and 2017 drafts. Summer league bores me to tears, too.

Apparently a 48-win season with the 4th youngest roster is not a 'result' to you.  But you are a coach so you know what it takes...

19 24 vs .500 or better Teams
14 31 when opponents score more than 100 points

Its about building a Championship contender. We hear all the B.S from Ownership. This Year the money is there. No excuses.
Now we hear Zeller Sullinger Johnson all coming back? HAHAHAHAHA

Re: I won't get fooled again
« Reply #76 on: June 30, 2016, 04:47:36 PM »

Offline flybono

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Point 2 is the constant excuse coming up for Ainge's performance. Every single time Grousbeck runs his mouth, followed by an Ainge oh-for.

It should be engraved on his tombstone.

I love how DumbBo thinks that 48 wins in the 3rd year of a rebuild is supposed to be an indictment of Ainge's performance.

Name calling really advances your point. You really got me there. I'll have to take a couple of days off to recoup from the name calling, before I come back with the appropriate maturity level of response. Something like "sticks and stones ..."

It's still far more intelligent than anything you've posted recently. By the way, there are 29 other teams out there. I'm sure there's a team and a community that enjoys losing and whining about it just as much as you do.

Doesn't seem like every poster agrees with you.

Funny, I don't see anything in the forum rules requiring toeing the company line. Lots of rules about abusive posts, things like that, but nothing like "everyone has to agree with every single thing Danny Ainge does."

And no, 48 wins does not impress me. Not in the slightest.


AMEN Brother!

Go Danny Go, you aint made a bad move yet

Re: I won't get fooled again
« Reply #77 on: June 30, 2016, 04:51:16 PM »

Offline alldaboston

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I hear you.

I just don't believe anything coming out of the front office any more.

Show me results, and maybe I'll start believing again. But I'm not going to hang my hat on this endless succession of moves that don't advance the product on the floor, like the 2016 and 2017 drafts. Summer league bores me to tears, too.

Apparently a 48-win season with the 4th youngest roster is not a 'result' to you.  But you are a coach so you know what it takes...

19 24 vs .500 or better Teams
14 31 when opponents score more than 100 points

Its about building a Championship contender. We hear all the B.S from Ownership. This Year the money is there. No excuses.
Now we hear Zeller Sullinger Johnson all coming back? HAHAHAHAHA

No one said they're coming back.
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: I won't get fooled again
« Reply #78 on: June 30, 2016, 04:53:23 PM »

Offline mahcus smaht

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I hear you.

I just don't believe anything coming out of the front office any more.

Show me results, and maybe I'll start believing again. But I'm not going to hang my hat on this endless succession of moves that don't advance the product on the floor, like the 2016 and 2017 drafts. Summer league bores me to tears, too.

Apparently a 48-win season with the 4th youngest roster is not a 'result' to you.  But you are a coach so you know what it takes...

19 24 vs .500 or better Teams
14 31 when opponents score more than 100 points

Its about building a Championship contender. We hear all the B.S from Ownership. This Year the money is there. No excuses.
Now we hear Zeller Sullinger Johnson all coming back? HAHAHAHAHA
offering the QO and them returning are very different.

If those 3 come back I will be furious. However, I think its more likely KD signs with us than those 3 return and I really dont expect KD to sign with us.

Re: I won't get fooled again
« Reply #79 on: June 30, 2016, 04:57:07 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Record versus teams over .500 is a pretty useless thing to hang your hat on historically, I wouldn't look at it much.

I don't get the over 100 point thing, I mean yeah our team won on D more than O so that's not surprising. Though if you search that criteria most teams don't do that great. The Spurs who won 67 games was 11-9 in games where their opponents scored more than 100 points. OKC was 26 - 22 for another example and won 59 games.

Re: I won't get fooled again
« Reply #80 on: June 30, 2016, 04:58:10 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Amir is likely back if his option is picked up, though there would be a robust trade market for him on a 1 year deal with his production.

Re: I won't get fooled again
« Reply #81 on: June 30, 2016, 05:02:05 PM »

Offline snively

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I sympathize with the OP, rollercoaster of the draft/FA period can be exhausting. Especially given an entire industry is trying to work us up so we click/watch/read.

But that's sports now-a-days, if its getting you too worked up step back for a while. And in the end the most probable outcome every season is always failure and/or the status quo with changes around the edges.

Failure to win the championship is normal - we're all very used to that.

But we're failing to put together an exciting team - which is pretty disheartening for a team that had a justified 2-3 year tanking window post Big 3, a BK windfall and big cap space in back to back years.

2016 CelticsBlog Draft: Chicago Bulls

Head Coach: Fred Hoiberg

Starters: Rubio, Danny Green, Durant, Markieff Morris, Capela
Bench: Sessions, Shumpert, G. Green, T. Booker, Frye
Deep Bench: CJ Watson, H. Thompson, P. Zipser, Papagiannis, Mejri

Re: I won't get fooled again
« Reply #82 on: June 30, 2016, 05:03:27 PM »

Offline celts55

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We've gone from 25 to 48 wins in 2 seasons while trading the guy who was theoretically our best player for a package most fans initially thought was a ripoff. 

The changes are already happening, it's just been more of a slow burn than a big blast so far.  I'd love a "name" player here too but I'd much rather we keep progressing at the same rate than put all our eggs in one basket because the guy is better-known around the league.
Yeah the amount of dissatisfaction with Ainge's rebuild from the KG/Pierce/etc team is strange to me. I understood the ire of those who wanted to blow it up earlier much more.

Only one year of bottoming out is pretty darn good given the draft and cap situation the C's are now blessed with.

Bottoming out for only one year is definitely impressive, and I think Ainge has done a great job overall.

I confess to being one of those people disappointed (at least initially) with the last couple of drafts, but I think that has much less to do with the picks and much more to do with the lack of fireworks. I can speak only for myself (though I suspect that others feel similarly), but I think a good deal of the discontent stems from Danny kicking his "war chest of assets" down the road at every draft, trade deadline, and free agency period for the last three years.

It's true that he made some great, savvy moves in acquiring IT and Crowder, but that's still a ways removed from finding "the next KG," etc. I don't think Danny contributed to the "fireworks" expectations; that's mostly on Wyc, but I think some Cs fans have contributed to that by saying—at every draft, trade deadline, etc. that featured no big moves—"Just wait until next summer/next draft/next trade deadline," and then nothing happened, and again they said, "Just wait," and then nothing happened ... and so on.

I take full responsibility for managing my expectations, but it hasn't been easy in the internet/social media climate.

That said, I like what I saw from Rozier at the end of the season, I'm warming up to Brown, and I'm pleased with where this team and organization are at.

This. Thank you. That is what I was trying to say in OP. I'm not unhappy with the team, just at the point where I'm disappointed that the big move seems to never come, so at thus point I just don't expected it too anymore.

Re: I won't get fooled again
« Reply #83 on: June 30, 2016, 05:06:36 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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I sympathize with the OP, rollercoaster of the draft/FA period can be exhausting. Especially given an entire industry is trying to work us up so we click/watch/read.

But that's sports now-a-days, if its getting you too worked up step back for a while. And in the end the most probable outcome every season is always failure and/or the status quo with changes around the edges.

Failure to win the championship is normal - we're all very used to that.

But we're failing to put together an exciting team - which is pretty disheartening for a team that had a justified 2-3 year tanking window post Big 3, a BK windfall and big cap space in back to back years.
I mean what's your criteria for excitement? Trading for an all-star who's taller than 6'?

And given we've made the playoffs the past two years, we only "tanked" one year. With only 2 of the BKN picks having come in. The urge for "NOW" is a human one, but not really a reasonable one.

I was disappointed by the draft too, but I get that most of the time things don't come together.

Re: I won't get fooled again
« Reply #84 on: June 30, 2016, 05:12:33 PM »

Offline GratefulCs

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Point 2 is the constant excuse coming up for Ainge's performance. Every single time Grousbeck runs his mouth, followed by an Ainge oh-for.

It should be engraved on his tombstone.

I love how DumbBo thinks that 48 wins in the 3rd year of a rebuild is supposed to be an indictment of Ainge's performance.

Name calling really advances your point. You really got me there. I'll have to take a couple of days off to recoup from the name calling, before I come back with the appropriate maturity level of response. Something like "sticks and stones ..."

It's still far more intelligent than anything you've posted recently. By the way, there are 29 other teams out there. I'm sure there's a team and a community that enjoys losing and whining about it just as much as you do.

Doesn't seem like every poster agrees with you.

Funny, I don't see anything in the forum rules requiring toeing the company line. Lots of rules about abusive posts, things like that, but nothing like "everyone has to agree with every single thing Danny Ainge does."

And no, 48 wins does not impress me. Not in the slightest.
it's fine to question the direction


But it's weird to complain about the people the people who support the direction of the team.

We're all apologists and exuse makers apparently


-


We are in such a better position than most other teams


I hope we get durant so everyone can shut it (and so we'll be top notch)

I hope bender becomes an all time great

I hope we continue to gain more wins every year (like we have been)

I hope all the haters can begin to appreciate the position we're in (i know, i know. Crazy talk, right!?)


At least we're all hoping for the same result
I trust Danny Ainge

Re: I won't get fooled again
« Reply #85 on: June 30, 2016, 05:12:47 PM »

Offline passesofftodj

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I think Danny is so good at trading and managing a team and building a roster that his mediocrity at drafting looks much worse than it is in reality.

My biggest issues with him were passing on Gasol and Draymond.  To me they were obvious.   After watching Green in the tournament I was convinced he would be an NBA star.

Then again I would've never drafted Rondo, which was an absolute home run.  I also thought Gerald Green would be a superstar.  No Rondo = no banner and no Crowder.

The point is that the team and roster are where they are at and that is an awfully good position for the long-term.  It would be stupid to sign some of these older free agents without bringing in Durant.  Danny knows what he is doing.  This is not the best year for the draft or free agency.  Next year should be better and the team will be more prepared to pounce on what is available. 

We all get fired up at the moves we disagree with and sometimes we are more correct than Danny himself, but overall he has put the team in an astounding long-term position while still being competitive now.

Hopefully he is more correct about Brown than some of us think.

Re: I won't get fooled again
« Reply #86 on: June 30, 2016, 05:14:48 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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Point 2 is the constant excuse coming up for Ainge's performance. Every single time Grousbeck runs his mouth, followed by an Ainge oh-for.

It should be engraved on his tombstone.

I love how DumbBo thinks that 48 wins in the 3rd year of a rebuild is supposed to be an indictment of Ainge's performance.

Name calling really advances your point. You really got me there. I'll have to take a couple of days off to recoup from the name calling, before I come back with the appropriate maturity level of response. Something like "sticks and stones ..."

It's still far more intelligent than anything you've posted recently. By the way, there are 29 other teams out there. I'm sure there's a team and a community that enjoys losing and whining about it just as much as you do.

Doesn't seem like every poster agrees with you.

Funny, I don't see anything in the forum rules requiring toeing the company line. Lots of rules about abusive posts, things like that, but nothing like "everyone has to agree with every single thing Danny Ainge does."

And no, 48 wins does not impress me. Not in the slightest.
it's fine to question the direction


But it's weird to complain about the people the people who support the direction of the team.

We're all apologists and exuse makers apparently


-


We are in such a better position than most other teams


I hope we get durant so everyone can shut it (and so we'll be top notch)

I hope bender becomes an all time great

I hope we continue to gain more wins every year (like we have been)

I hope all the haters can begin to appreciate the position we're in (i know, i know. Crazy talk, right!?)


At least we're all hoping for the same result

You might want to read that entire exchange again - unless you're fine with abusive posts against people who don't think Ainge has performed well.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: I won't get fooled again
« Reply #87 on: June 30, 2016, 05:14:57 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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When it comes to Ainge's record on drafting, I think he is probably average to slightly above average. I don't care whether you measure the stick by what percentage of players he has drafted have busted, or what percentage of players he bas drafted have outperformed their draft position or any other metric. The point is compare him to other GMs and their records.

There are GMs around the league that have moved around a bit and have consistently drafted higher in the draft than Danny and have worse drafting records than Danny. There are GMs around the league that have been with the same club a long time, have drafted around where Ainge has and have worse drafting records than Danny. There are one time GMs that have come and gone that have drafted above Ainge and have worse records than Danny.

The opposite is also true regarding those categories of GMs. In every group there are GMs with better drafting records.

The draft is a major crap shoot. Its like trying to find a pearl in a bed of oysters with just one or two selections of oysters. Its dang hard to have an overall very good to great drafting record. Those GMs that do are few and far between. So to me Ainge is about average or slightly above average.

As for trades, I think its fair to say Ainge has a very good to excellent track record. I have also noticed his trades dont always happen when most fans are expecting them to happen. They dont usually take place just before the trade deadline or on draft night. They can happen and have happened at any time. For that reason I dont get all worked up over trades happening or not happening based on time that are media driven to have trades happen. Trades happen when they happen. Dont get all worked up over draft day deals and trade deadline day deals.

Ainge will make moves when he thinks its in the team's best interest to maximize the value in a trade. I think here his record shows he is one of the better GMs in the league at trading.

Overall, if its really bugging you about things not happening when you want them to happen or the way you want them to happen, step back from the team a while and chill. Maybe concentrate on another team you like in a different sport that is doing things the way you want and come back to basketball with a refreshed and lower anxiety level later on.

Or just be patient. Having been a Sox, Pats, and Bruins fan for decades before their post 2000 championship years, being patient was kinda bred into me.

Edit: I will add Wyc should keep his mouth shut. Ainge's product sells itself in a sports crazy city like Boston. He doesnt need to try to sell tickets with comments like the fireworks comment
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 05:33:09 PM by nickagneta »

Re: I won't get fooled again
« Reply #88 on: June 30, 2016, 05:27:52 PM »

Offline flybono

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Record versus teams over .500 is a pretty useless thing to hang your hat on historically, I wouldn't look at it much.

I don't get the over 100 point thing, I mean yeah our team won on D more than O so that's not surprising. Though if you search that criteria most teams don't do that great. The Spurs who won 67 games was 11-9 in games where their opponents scored more than 100 points. OKC was 26 - 22 for another example and won 59 games.

That statistic will get better if and when Ainge finds a defensive presence in the front court and pure shooters. If you cannot defend or shoot the 3 in 100 point games your record dictates it.

Cleveland 24 14
Golden St 46 8

Re: I won't get fooled again
« Reply #89 on: June 30, 2016, 05:31:00 PM »

Offline PaulP34

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Again, this is what I've predicted. Don't fall into the media trap. Durant is staying with OKC. Don't mean he won't sign with Boston next year but its not happening this year. I also heard we offered Sully back, yet another one of my predictions.