Author Topic: New ESPN on Hinkie and the Process  (Read 16326 times)

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Re: New ESPN on Hinkie and the Process
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2016, 04:47:42 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Sixers are supposedly going to make a big push for Harrison Barnes.  If GS is able to land a more prominent free agent they will let Barnes go, but I wouldn't be surprised if they threatened to match in order to get Noel from the Sixers in a sign and trade of Barnes.

 Are you proposing this as a one year rental? They will need to pay Steph 25 million starting 2017-2018 along with 34 million for Klay and Draymond. Would they really want to add on Noel at 20-23 million million a year and have 4 players taking up 80-85 million? I don't think he makes much sense as a 4th max guy for them. It would be really fun to see him on Golden State though
I'd rather have Noel at that price than Harrison Barnes, who they would be stuck with at that price if they don't do a sign and trade or let him walk away for nothing.
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Re: New ESPN on Hinkie and the Process
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2016, 05:00:01 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Hinkie did what Philly's ownership asked him to do... acquire assets and swing for the fences via the draft.   It might have worked.  Jury is still out.   BUt fact is, if Simmons and Embiid are as great as expected, they are able to sign some free agents, and are able to get some value out of one of the redundant bigs - "the process" will have been a success.   Really, all they need for it to be a success is for one player to become a superstar.  They have a couple candidates.

He didn't really make the right picks to maximize value though did he? It is pretty crazy that Noel's value is lower than smart's. He is now being proposed to trade for Livingston by Philly beat writers. Does he have half the value of steven adams? Okafor's value also appears shockingly low right now.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/pattisonave/Hayes-Noel-Shaun-Livingston-is-worth-.html

Re: New ESPN on Hinkie and the Process
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2016, 05:04:49 PM »

Online hwangjini_1

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Hinkie did what Philly's ownership asked him to do... acquire assets and swing for the fences via the draft.   It might have worked.  Jury is still out.   BUt fact is, if Simmons and Embiid are as great as expected, they are able to sign some free agents, and are able to get some value out of one of the redundant bigs - "the process" will have been a success.   Really, all they need for it to be a success is for one player to become a superstar.  They have a couple candidates.
but that's the rub, isn't it? as with all rebuilding avenues - FA, draft, trades - it is never so clean and simple as to say "player X will work out as expected."

so far, embiid has given them nothing and has how many years left on his rookie contract?

noel is almost out the door. did he move the franchise success needle at all so far? his trade value recently raises real questions about that. same things might be said about okafur eventually.

simmons, could be great. we shall see. he could be a bust due to attitude and shooting. we shall see.

the jury is indeed out on everything philly has done so far. they gambled big and put ALL their rebuild eggs in one basket - the draft - and we dont know whether or not it works yet, and wont for another 2-3 years minimum.
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Re: New ESPN on Hinkie and the Process
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2016, 05:07:34 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Hinkie did what Philly's ownership asked him to do... acquire assets and swing for the fences via the draft.   It might have worked.  Jury is still out.   BUt fact is, if Simmons and Embiid are as great as expected, they are able to sign some free agents, and are able to get some value out of one of the redundant bigs - "the process" will have been a success.   Really, all they need for it to be a success is for one player to become a superstar.  They have a couple candidates.
but that's the rub, isn't it? as with all rebuilding avenues - FA, draft, trades - it is never so clean and simple as to say "player X will work out as expected."

so far, embiid has given them nothing and has how many years left on his rookie contract?

noel is almost out the door. did he move the franchise success needle at all so far? his trade value recently raises real questions about that. same things might be said about okafur eventually.

simmons, could be great. we shall see. he could be a bust due to attitude and shooting. we shall see.

the jury is indeed out on everything philly has done so far. they gambled big and put ALL their rebuild eggs in one basket - the draft - and we dont know whether or not it works yet, and wont for another 2-3 years minimum.

Well it is possible that Simmons look like Lebron as a rookie and Embiid explodes this year, but that is probably not super likely.

Re: New ESPN on Hinkie and the Process
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2016, 05:13:37 PM »

Offline MBunge

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Hinkie did what Philly's ownership asked him to do

That makes it sound like the owners decided they wanted to mega-tank and Hinkie, by complete coincidence, happened to be the guy they ordered to do it.

Perhaps I'm wrong but my understanding is that "The Process" was almost entirely a Hinkie conception.  HE wanted to tank and tank harder than any team had tanked before.  HE wanted to strip the roster of anything resembling an NBA player.  HE wanted to draft a hurt Noel, a hurt Embiid and Okafor, despite them all playing the same position. And HE is the one who quit when he felt that HIS vision was no longer going to exclusively guide Philly's rebuild.

You're going to give Hinkie all the credit if Philly is a powerhouse three years from now.  Don't try and divert the blame because it looks bad right now.

Mike

Re: New ESPN on Hinkie and the Process
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2016, 05:14:19 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Hinkie did what Philly's ownership asked him to do... acquire assets and swing for the fences via the draft.   It might have worked.  Jury is still out.   BUt fact is, if Simmons and Embiid are as great as expected, they are able to sign some free agents, and are able to get some value out of one of the redundant bigs - "the process" will have been a success.   Really, all they need for it to be a success is for one player to become a superstar.  They have a couple candidates.
but that's the rub, isn't it? as with all rebuilding avenues - FA, draft, trades - it is never so clean and simple as to say "player X will work out as expected."

so far, embiid has given them nothing and has how many years left on his rookie contract?

noel is almost out the door. did he move the franchise success needle at all so far? his trade value recently raises real questions about that. same things might be said about okafur eventually.

simmons, could be great. we shall see. he could be a bust due to attitude and shooting. we shall see.

the jury is indeed out on everything philly has done so far. they gambled big and put ALL their rebuild eggs in one basket - the draft - and we dont know whether or not it works yet, and wont for another 2-3 years minimum.
Well it is more than the draft, they have to add 40 million just to hit the salary floor.  They are clearly going to be players in free agency, whether it is directly or similar to the Sacramento deal last year. 
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Re: New ESPN on Hinkie and the Process
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2016, 05:16:57 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Hinkie did what Philly's ownership asked him to do

That makes it sound like the owners decided they wanted to mega-tank and Hinkie, by complete coincidence, happened to be the guy they ordered to do it.

Perhaps I'm wrong but my understanding is that "The Process" was almost entirely a Hinkie conception.  HE wanted to tank and tank harder than any team had tanked before.  HE wanted to strip the roster of anything resembling an NBA player.  HE wanted to draft a hurt Noel, a hurt Embiid and Okafor, despite them all playing the same position. And HE is the one who quit when he felt that HIS vision was no longer going to exclusively guide Philly's rebuild.

You're going to give Hinkie all the credit if Philly is a powerhouse three years from now.  Don't try and divert the blame because it looks bad right now.

Mike
It is well documented that Hinkie laid out two courses of action in his interview.  One was to tank and the other was to build around Holiday.  The Sixers owners chose the tank route and were firmly behind that plan.  That is why even after Colangelo was hired they did pretty much nothing last year.  The Sixers plan was to always tank for 2 seasons, which is exactly what the Sixers did.  This summer they were always going to start looking to move the process forward, which is exactly what they will do.
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Re: New ESPN on Hinkie and the Process
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2016, 05:49:16 PM »

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Re: New ESPN on Hinkie and the Process
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2016, 07:21:44 PM »

Offline greece66

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Hinkie did what Philly's ownership asked him to do

That makes it sound like the owners decided they wanted to mega-tank and Hinkie, by complete coincidence, happened to be the guy they ordered to do it.

Perhaps I'm wrong but my understanding is that "The Process" was almost entirely a Hinkie conception.  HE wanted to tank and tank harder than any team had tanked before.  HE wanted to strip the roster of anything resembling an NBA player.  HE wanted to draft a hurt Noel, a hurt Embiid and Okafor, despite them all playing the same position. And HE is the one who quit when he felt that HIS vision was no longer going to exclusively guide Philly's rebuild.

You're going to give Hinkie all the credit if Philly is a powerhouse three years from now.  Don't try and divert the blame because it looks bad right now.

Mike
It is well documented that Hinkie laid out two courses of action in his interview.  One was to tank and the other was to build around Holiday.  The Sixers owners chose the tank route and were firmly behind that plan.  That is why even after Colangelo was hired they did pretty much nothing last year.  The Sixers plan was to always tank for 2 seasons, which is exactly what the Sixers did.  This summer they were always going to start looking to move the process forward, which is exactly what they will do.
I don't mean to be picky, but it was 3 seasons iirc.

Re: New ESPN on Hinkie and the Process
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2016, 07:25:07 PM »

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Deadspin just destroyed this piece. 

http://deadspin.com/sam-hinkie-still-has-no-idea-what-hes-talking-about-1782821624

Hinkie was an ironic genius.

"Every spring, the draft lottery awards the subsequent draft’s top selection to one NBA team or another, virtually none of which spent the previous three seasons failing on purpose. An executive who spends three years pursuing what David f****ng Kahn can stumble across without trying is not a genius; he is the precise opposite of that.

More to the point: Hinkie apologists who’d like to pose the selection of Ben Simmons as vindication of “The Process” may wish to hold their horses for now. In reverse chronological order, Jahlil Okafor, K.J. McDaniels, Dario Šarić, Joel Embiid, Michael Carter-Williams, and Nerlens Noel have been posed as vindications of “The Process,” too, for various reasons. And yet, somehow, the Sixers won few enough games last season to secure the top pick they used on Simmons. If Simmons turns out to be good enough to justify the hype, will that testify to the genius of a guy who doesn’t work for the team anymore? Or will it be because of the guys who replaced him?

To put it more plainly: Is there a reason why none of Hinkie’s selections have yet turned out to be good basketball players?"


Re: New ESPN on Hinkie and the Process
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2016, 07:28:24 PM »

Offline greece66

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Deadspin just destroyed this piece. 

http://deadspin.com/sam-hinkie-still-has-no-idea-what-hes-talking-about-1782821624

Thanks that was an interesting read after the first article.

tbh though I did find this article overly critical. Some claim Hinkie was a misunderstood genius and others (probably most) that he was a complete failure. I'd like to read a more balanced approach but I have hardly found any so far.

Re: New ESPN on Hinkie and the Process
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2016, 07:32:41 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Hinkie did what Philly's ownership asked him to do

That makes it sound like the owners decided they wanted to mega-tank and Hinkie, by complete coincidence, happened to be the guy they ordered to do it.

Perhaps I'm wrong but my understanding is that "The Process" was almost entirely a Hinkie conception.  HE wanted to tank and tank harder than any team had tanked before.  HE wanted to strip the roster of anything resembling an NBA player.  HE wanted to draft a hurt Noel, a hurt Embiid and Okafor, despite them all playing the same position. And HE is the one who quit when he felt that HIS vision was no longer going to exclusively guide Philly's rebuild.

You're going to give Hinkie all the credit if Philly is a powerhouse three years from now.  Don't try and divert the blame because it looks bad right now.

Mike
It is well documented that Hinkie laid out two courses of action in his interview.  One was to tank and the other was to build around Holiday.  The Sixers owners chose the tank route and were firmly behind that plan.  That is why even after Colangelo was hired they did pretty much nothing last year.  The Sixers plan was to always tank for 2 seasons, which is exactly what the Sixers did.  This summer they were always going to start looking to move the process forward, which is exactly what they will do.
Exactly.   And as I've been saying for a year, they probably would have taken steps to move the process forward last Summer had Embiid not had the bone graft and Saric not stayed overseas.  At that point, it just made logical sense to tank one more year.  Hence - no free agent signings, no trades, no efforts made to win games.    The golden prize = Ben Simmons... a potentially transcendent player.  That was the point all along. 

People are still desperate to see them fail (I'd like to see them fail as well), but so far they are basically right on track with what they wanted to do.  This is an interesting Summer for them.   

Re: New ESPN on Hinkie and the Process
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2016, 07:34:37 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Deadspin just destroyed this piece. 

http://deadspin.com/sam-hinkie-still-has-no-idea-what-hes-talking-about-1782821624

Thanks that was an interesting read after the first article.

tbh though I did find this article overly critical. Some claim Hinkie was a misunderstood genius and others (probably most) that he was a complete failure. I'd like to read a more balanced approach but I have hardly found any so far.

Yea the Deadspin piece was over the top in the other direction. Still Deadspin doesn't pretend to pass it off as news. I still don't understand why ESPN ran this "news" piece on Hinkie that is a puff piece with no real new information right now. Is he going to start working at ESPN in their analytics department? 

Re: New ESPN on Hinkie and the Process
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2016, 07:34:55 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Hinkie did what Philly's ownership asked him to do

You're going to give Hinkie all the credit if Philly is a powerhouse three years from now.  Don't try and divert the blame because it looks bad right now.

Mike

There's no "blame" to go around.  What they have done is amazing.   They have a chance to be a really special team.   Opinions could change a year from now, but right now it's hard to look at Philly and not be overwhelmingly impressed.   The talent they have amassed via "the process" is nothing short of incredible.   As a fan of the sport, I'm super interested to see how it all pans out for them.  They are in beautiful position right now.

Re: New ESPN on Hinkie and the Process
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2016, 07:41:56 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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The process was fine in principle, in exucution Hinkie was to extreme. In the draft BPA is a must in the first 20 picks of the draft however taking this to the extreme where you draft a Center 3 years in a row is extreme. The other issue I had with Hinkie was the lack of potential placed on the court. If tanking is the plan then the team should be playing high potential players in key roles to promote growth. 76ers where often playing D-League level talent in prominent roles with little hope of ever being legit NBA rotational players.
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