Note - options on Amir and Jerebko due Thursday

[BitterJim]

From Eric Pincus, who I trust almost as much as Larry Coon: "Most contract language says 'waived by' not cleared by".

I think we're safe in assuming that we'll have until midnight Saturday it seems or so. Not sure if we have Sunday to make the decision as well, but not going to push it.

This obviously means that Danny has some idea that two max level free agents are going to be giving him definitive answers sometime between the 3rd and 7th and he is keeping his options open. Given the timetables for some of the meetings for the max level crowd, this seems like good news. Things definitely looked to be getting close.

Well, there are some things at play here, particularly the importance of July 7th.

This year, the Moratorium period was shortened, which means that the Celtics can trade players once again after July 6, as opposed to previous years where it was July 10. This is a measure that was put in place just recently, so that's probably a reason to negotiate this date.

Another thing that as I was discussing with someone was brought to my attention, is that Amir and Jerebko would most definitely be claimed off waivers by some team. So no matter what happens, Amir and Jerebko have no chance of playing the FA game.

What this further means is that if Ainge releases them, Amir and Jerebko run the risk of being claimed by a bad team.

So the extension give a further opportunity to still be with the Cs this season, it also gives Ainge the chance to trade them to a more desired destination if need be.

With these issues in mind, I'm surprised it wasn't extended even further. But, the July 7 is key since once all the verbal agreements are in place, it gives us one final opportunity to trade them. I'm assuming though that the July 7 date simply means that they can be released on that same day as opposed to released by date (which would mean we'd have to release them on July 6).

But we'll see. In all, there's a lot of particulars on why it would make sense to extend the deadline for all parties involved.

While I'm not positive about this specific case, normally guarantees are reported as the day by which players are guaranteed.  So Amir and JJ would guarantee at 12:00 am on July 7th, the same time the league moratorium ends.  Accordingly, they couldn't be claimed.

But the meeting with KD is on Monday thee 4th right? So isn't Danny allowing 2 days for KD to get back to him before the deals guarantee (at midnight)

Meeting is Saturday.

Arghghg! I still don't get it then. They can't be traded anyway before July 7 and  if you're saying that they can't be traded anyway before their deals guarantee with the new guarantee date, starting 12.00am on the 7th, what difference does it make? Or can you claim a waived player in the moratorium?

Trades could still be negotiated during the moratorium, so although we can't trade them before their guarantee date, it doesn't matter.  We can still clear their salary by trading them, and if no trades come up we can just waive them before they become guaranteed

[saltlover]

From Eric Pincus, who I trust almost as much as Larry Coon: "Most contract language says 'waived by' not cleared by".

I think we're safe in assuming that we'll have until midnight Saturday it seems or so. Not sure if we have Sunday to make the decision as well, but not going to push it.

This obviously means that Danny has some idea that two max level free agents are going to be giving him definitive answers sometime between the 3rd and 7th and he is keeping his options open. Given the timetables for some of the meetings for the max level crowd, this seems like good news. Things definitely looked to be getting close.

Well, there are some things at play here, particularly the importance of July 7th.

This year, the Moratorium period was shortened, which means that the Celtics can trade players once again after July 6, as opposed to previous years where it was July 10. This is a measure that was put in place just recently, so that's probably a reason to negotiate this date.

Another thing that as I was discussing with someone was brought to my attention, is that Amir and Jerebko would most definitely be claimed off waivers by some team. So no matter what happens, Amir and Jerebko have no chance of playing the FA game.

What this further means is that if Ainge releases them, Amir and Jerebko run the risk of being claimed by a bad team.

So the extension give a further opportunity to still be with the Cs this season, it also gives Ainge the chance to trade them to a more desired destination if need be.

With these issues in mind, I'm surprised it wasn't extended even further. But, the July 7 is key since once all the verbal agreements are in place, it gives us one final opportunity to trade them. I'm assuming though that the July 7 date simply means that they can be released on that same day as opposed to released by date (which would mean we'd have to release them on July 6).

But we'll see. In all, there's a lot of particulars on why it would make sense to extend the deadline for all parties involved.

While I'm not positive about this specific case, normally guarantees are reported as the day by which players are guaranteed.  So Amir and JJ would guarantee at 12:00 am on July 7th, the same time the league moratorium ends.  Accordingly, they couldn't be claimed.

Yeah, I was well on my way to writing the post, so I had to put some amendments at the end lol as I was thinking things through. Thought it would be a good thought exercise regardless.

Edit: What do you mean by "couldn't be claimed"?

Couldn't be claimed on waivers by another team on July 7th, and would thus be free agents if waived.

A couple of questions to try and make sense. Do you mean if they're cut after moratorium, there's no 48 hour period?

Or are you giving special importance for the date that their contract become guaranteed and the timing by which the Cs can manage to release them?

I'm just curious about why the 48 hour period would not be in place. In all the CBA things, this is my weakest part.

I'm saying that in order for the salary to not guarantee on July 7th, they need to be waived by midnight July 5th, during the moratorium period.  Accordingly, it will be impossible for a team to claim Amir, and difficult, but not impossible, for most teams to claim JJ, due to their respective salaries and team's available cap space.

From Larry Coon:

The 48 hour waiver period continues into and through the July Moratorium (see question number 104). Teams are allowed to waive players and claim waived players during the Moratorium. Salaries adjust at the start of the Moratorium, and the salary cap adjusts at the end of the Moratorium, so during the Moratorium waiver claims use the new season’s salary amounts and the previous season’s cap

[BudweiserCeltic]

From Eric Pincus, who I trust almost as much as Larry Coon: "Most contract language says 'waived by' not cleared by".

I think we're safe in assuming that we'll have until midnight Saturday it seems or so. Not sure if we have Sunday to make the decision as well, but not going to push it.

This obviously means that Danny has some idea that two max level free agents are going to be giving him definitive answers sometime between the 3rd and 7th and he is keeping his options open. Given the timetables for some of the meetings for the max level crowd, this seems like good news. Things definitely looked to be getting close.

Well, there are some things at play here, particularly the importance of July 7th.

This year, the Moratorium period was shortened, which means that the Celtics can trade players once again after July 6, as opposed to previous years where it was July 10. This is a measure that was put in place just recently, so that's probably a reason to negotiate this date.

Another thing that as I was discussing with someone was brought to my attention, is that Amir and Jerebko would most definitely be claimed off waivers by some team. So no matter what happens, Amir and Jerebko have no chance of playing the FA game.

What this further means is that if Ainge releases them, Amir and Jerebko run the risk of being claimed by a bad team.

So the extension give a further opportunity to still be with the Cs this season, it also gives Ainge the chance to trade them to a more desired destination if need be.

With these issues in mind, I'm surprised it wasn't extended even further. But, the July 7 is key since once all the verbal agreements are in place, it gives us one final opportunity to trade them. I'm assuming though that the July 7 date simply means that they can be released on that same day as opposed to released by date (which would mean we'd have to release them on July 6).

But we'll see. In all, there's a lot of particulars on why it would make sense to extend the deadline for all parties involved.

While I'm not positive about this specific case, normally guarantees are reported as the day by which players are guaranteed.  So Amir and JJ would guarantee at 12:00 am on July 7th, the same time the league moratorium ends.  Accordingly, they couldn't be claimed.

Yeah, I was well on my way to writing the post, so I had to put some amendments at the end lol as I was thinking things through. Thought it would be a good thought exercise regardless.

Edit: What do you mean by "couldn't be claimed"?

Couldn't be claimed on waivers by another team on July 7th, and would thus be free agents if waived.

A couple of questions to try and make sense. Do you mean if they're cut after moratorium, there's no 48 hour period?

Or are you giving special importance for the date that their contract become guaranteed and the timing by which the Cs can manage to release them?

I'm just curious about why the 48 hour period would not be in place. In all the CBA things, this is my weakest part.

I'm saying that in order for the salary to not guarantee on July 7th, they need to be waived by midnight July 5th, during the moratorium period.  Accordingly, it will be impossible for a team to claim Amir, and difficult, but not impossible, for most teams to claim JJ, due to their respective salaries and team's available cap space.

From Larry Coon:

The 48 hour waiver period continues into and through the July Moratorium (see question number 104). Teams are allowed to waive players and claim waived players during the Moratorium. Salaries adjust at the start of the Moratorium, and the salary cap adjusts at the end of the Moratorium, so during the Moratorium waiver claims use the new season’s salary amounts and the previous season’s cap

Right, but as I had mentioned earlier, and confirmed with some sources I spoke with, the date in the contract can often mean (and that's how it seems it's usually done) depending on the language and terms of the contract, that it's not really "cleared waivers by", but merely "released by" or at times "released on". This of course  mainly according to Eric Pincus, who I hold in high regard with CBA knowledge. It's all dependent on the particular of the contracts and their language, so who knows how it's written up, hard to tell what they've meant by the date. I guess, who knows in the end, until the time comes I doubt we'll get a definite answer.

Like I can understand if it's some set date by the league (like the January 10 date), but I think there's some flexibility on how you word things outside of those parameters.

That aside, that nugget about the salary amounts is good. I was aware of it, but never put it into the proper context.

Regardless, you clarified a few things for me. Thanks.

[alldaboston]

That's what the Herald said right? That they had to be "released" by the date (it was the 3rd in the article but now would be the 7th).

Edit:

Because of this free agent uncertainty, sources close to Johnson and Jerebko are saying they’ve been advised that the decision on whether to pick up one or both of their options could well come down to the final hours.

Johnson is slated to make $12 million next season, and Jerebko is down for $5 million, but the Celts can opt out of those deals by serving notice by midnight Sunday (July 3rd).

[BudweiserCeltic]

That's what the Herald said right? That they had to be "released" by the date (it was the 3rd in the article but now would be the 7th).

I don't put a lot of stock to the knowledge of these reporters about the CBA. That said, they do have connections from Celtics front office, and if they could have worded things in the way of "have until Sunday, now the 7th" to make a decision. So yeah, it could go either way.

[vjcsmoke]

We have until the 7th to make the decision.  It doesn't mean that we will wait to the last minute to do so.  But what this does is it gives us breathing room while we make decisions on the key free agents in the first week of free agency.

Overall a good move, I don't see how anyone can take it negatively.
So the question is... Durant + another max free agent or plan B?  LOL
Balls in your court Danny!!

[The Oracle]

If the Celtics were to waive Jerebko and or Amir are they not very likely to big picked up off of waivers by Brooklyn?  Cuz that scenario doesn't sound very appealing.

[Tr1boy]

What is going on with this?

If i was amir and jerebko i would prob not ask for options to be picked up for a bigger payday

[ashanm10]

What is going on with this?

If i was amir and jerebko i would prob not ask for options to be picked up for a bigger payday

they love the team bro

[Surferdad]

What is going on with this?

If i was amir and jerebko i would prob not ask for options to be picked up for a bigger payday

Team options, they don't have a choice in the matter.

[Donoghus]

What is going on with this?

If i was amir and jerebko i would prob not ask for options to be picked up for a bigger payday

Team options, they don't have a choice in the matter.

Exactly.  Who cares if they're happy or not.  They & their agents negotiated into these contracts.  Looking at the way the market has shaken out, the Celtics would be borderline nuts not to pick up these options.

[sahara]

What is going on with this?

If i was amir and jerebko i would prob not ask for options to be picked up for a bigger payday

Team options, they don't have a choice in the matter.

Exactly.  Who cares if they're happy or not.  They & their agents negotiated into these contracts.  Looking at the way the market has shaken out, the Celtics would be borderline nuts not to pick up these options.

Their options will be picked up officially along with Horford´s signing. There´s no doubt in my mind about that and I bet they´re both happy. I´m happy too, it´s a shame that nobody cares about that though 

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

What is going on with this?

If i was amir and jerebko i would prob not ask for options to be picked up for a bigger payday

Team options, they don't have a choice in the matter.

Exactly.  Who cares if they're happy or not.  They & their agents negotiated into these contracts.  Looking at the way the market has shaken out, the Celtics would be borderline nuts not to pick up these options.

Their options will be picked up officially along with Horford´s signing. There´s no doubt in my mind about that and I bet they´re both happy. I´m happy too, it´s a shame that nobody cares about that though 

Hey, I'm glad that you're happy!

I'm also happy with having Amir and Jonas back. I'd rather have KD, of course (no offense to them), but they're the perfect example (for me) of guys you want on your team if at all possible, and you'd be sad to see them go (even if it meant getting KD). Does that make sense?

[BudweiserCeltic]

Hey, look at that... it's INDEED Thursday...

[mmmmm]

What is going on with this?

If i was amir and jerebko i would prob not ask for options to be picked up for a bigger payday

Team options, they don't have a choice in the matter.

Just to clarify a couple of things before all this becomes moot:

1) They are not 'team options'.  Team options are not really used anymore (except on the ends of rookie contracts).   What is in effect here is that the final season of Amir & JJ's contracts are not guaranteed.   If the team does nothing past the vesting date (which apparently is today) then the final portion of the contracts become  guaranteed automatically if the player(s) is still on the roster.

2) If Danny decided he did NOT want to pay that final season, he has to waive the player(s), which may or may not terminate the contract.  Whether the contract gets terminated depends on whether another team picks the player up off of waivers.   In other words, if Danny puts the player on waivers, then if no one picks the player up, he is waived off the roster and any non-guaranteed portion of the contract disappears.  If, on the other hand, some other team picks the player off waivers, the player and contract go into THAT team's possession.   

3) Because there is a vesting date for the non-guaranteed portion, and because the waiver period during which other teams may consider picking up a waived player is 48 hours, to waive a player before the contract vests he has to be placed on waivers at least 48 hours prior to the vesting date, because the player is still technically 'on the roster' during those 48 hours.

So, this is an important point to the original comment up there:  It is not so simple as just saying, "Let them go and they can sign new contracts!"

If you put them on waivers, because they are both on what would be 1-year expiring contracts that are relatively dirt cheap in the current market, neither would clear waivers.  Both would almost certainly get scooped up by some other team (for example, the Nets).

We should have heard if they had been placed on waivers over he last 2 days and as far as I know, they were not.  It's not clear from the various language used in reports whether the actual vesting point was last night at midnight or tonight at midnight, but I suspect it is tonight since the press conference is tomorrow.  So it is too late to now put them on waivers.  So they are Celtics.

This is probably the main reason both JJ & AJ agreed to have the vesting date pushed back.  Because if Danny had been forced to waive them 6 days ago to make sure he had space for Durant, they would not make it through waivers to free agency.  They would get picked up and forced to play on a worse team.   So on the chance that Danny would NOT be able to complete the Durant deal, they agreed to have the date delayed.  That allowed Danny to wait on Durant without having to waive them and though we lost Durant, that seems to have paid off for both of them as they now will very likely continue to be Celtics for this coming year, barring a trade.   And for Danny, though he didn't get Durant, it is better to have AJ & JJ at this point than to have lost them and be forced to pay higher prices for some replacements.