Note - options on Amir and Jerebko due Thursday

[trickybilly]

Also, further to above, note that both Horford and Durant are 9 year vets (middle level max)

[BudweiserCeltic]

Both these options will be steals compared to the market.  That is for sure.

Having steals on one-year deals without managing to acquire top talent is meaningless. You're better off putting yourself in the optimum position to draw two maximum players. The opportunity cost is much higher retaining Jerebko and Amir than letting them go and make due with whatever happens.

Now, if you tell me we had Amir and Jerebko signed on these contracts for few years more, then that's something valuable because we can build around that. But for a marginal improvement on the roster for one year at the risk of complicating the potential acquisition of two max players it's simply not worth it.

This is sooo true. I wish I had more TPs to give.

Sorry, I haven't got a calculator handy, but are you sure that signing JJ and Amir (although letting Zeller and Sully leave, i.e. not even extending them the QO) will not leave enough space to sign two max contracts? Pretty sure our salary sits at around 50mill after guaranteeing JJ and Amir (and not counting Sully or Zeller's QO), Yabu's cap hold doesn't matter coz he is still under contract in EU, not sure about Zizic's sitch.

P.S I really like Horford's game, but paying him 25.3 million dollars hurts, especially when that is all you can pay Durant too (when Durant deserves double that). That being said, you can give Durant a 1 year deal, and re-up him with a long term deal next year when the cap explodes. Also, sucks that Turner doesn't have Bird Rights (as far as I can tell).

Even if we ultimately stash Yabu and Ante, their cap hold matters.

Actually, "stashing" results in no cap hold. Until a draftee signs his rookie contract, he counts zero towards the cap.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q51

51. What if the team and their drafted player can't agree to a contract? What options does the player have? How long does the team keep his draft rights?

The player's options are limited. What happens depends on a number of factors:

    If the player is already under contract to, or signs a contract with a non-NBA team, the team retains the player's draft rights for one year after the player's obligation to the non-NBA team ends. Essentially, the clock stops as long as the player plays pro ball outside the NBA. Players are not included in team salary during the regular season while the player is under contract with a non-NBA team.

The cap hold is not zero though, at least for 1st rounders. Their hold is dependent on the scale of where they were picked.

Second rounders I'm not sure, those might not have any cap hold as you imply.

[Lucky17]

The cap hold is not zero though, at least for 1st rounders. Their hold is dependent on the scale of where they were picked.

Second rounders I'm not sure, those might not have any cap hold as you imply.

You're right: stashing removes the cap hold that's placed on the team's books. My bad.

[BudweiserCeltic]

The cap hold is not zero though, at least for 1st rounders. Their hold is dependent on the scale of where they were picked.

Second rounders I'm not sure, those might not have any cap hold as you imply.

You're right: stashing removes the cap hold that's placed on the team's books. My bad.

Here's what we have:

$3,952,500 for Brown
$1,573,500 for Yabusele
$1,151,900 for Zizic

At least that's the base salary scale. I'm not sure if that's the amount that applies per se, but it should be around that if anything.

[libermaniac]

You may feel Amir and / or Jerebko are not worth keeping around at their current $$, but it's almost a certainty that somebody will want them.

No sense in declining their options.  Keep them and dump them later, if it becomes necessary.  Somebody will have cap space to absorb them for nothing.

Exactly.  This is a no brainer.  If/when you agree to terms with a free agent, it's very common for them to allow a few days to get your house in order and clear some cap space.  Trading Amir or Jerebko will be easy.  At worst, they net you a second round draft pick each.  Why wouldn't you pick up their options?

[drogbagarnett]

To do a trade you have to get matching salary back!!

If this can cost us Horford and Durant I say pass on both Amir and jerebko... (reluctantly for Jerebko. ;-( but safer to keep our option open...)

[BudweiserCeltic]

To do a trade you have to get matching salary back!!

If this can cost us Horford and Durant I say pass on both Amir and jerebko... (reluctantly for Jerebko. ;-( but safer to keep our option open...)

Everyone will have cap space, no need to match salaries.

[The Oracle]

You may feel Amir and / or Jerebko are not worth keeping around at their current $$, but it's almost a certainty that somebody will want them.

No sense in declining their options.  Keep them and dump them later, if it becomes necessary.  Somebody will have cap space to absorb them for nothing.

Exactly.  This is a no brainer.  If/when you agree to terms with a free agent, it's very common for them to allow a few days to get your house in order and clear some cap space.  Trading Amir or Jerebko will be easy.  At worst, they net you a second round draft pick each.  Why wouldn't you pick up their options?

I can't believe people are suggesting otherwise in this thread.  Jerebko on that expiring 5mill. contract will be like offering blood to a bunch of vampires.  You might even be able to attach something like Young to him and still gain a 2nd rounder if the C's want to pick up  another roster spot.  On the off chance the C's do sign Durant they may need Amir and Jerebko to complete a trade for say Butler/whoever.

[bruinsandceltics]

To do a trade you have to get matching salary back!!

If this can cost us Horford and Durant I say pass on both Amir and jerebko... (reluctantly for Jerebko. ;-( but safer to keep our option open...)

Everyone will have cap space, no need to match salaries.

No one is going to p--- away cap space on Jerebko and Amir.

Seriously, the idea that we would pick up the options on these guys is so dumb.

[fantankerous]

The cap hold is not zero though, at least for 1st rounders. Their hold is dependent on the scale of where they were picked.

Second rounders I'm not sure, those might not have any cap hold as you imply.

You're right: stashing removes the cap hold that's placed on the team's books. My bad.

You may be right, but I am suspicious of this.  Yabu and zizic are currently under contract with foreign teams (I believe).  There's no actual mechanism to "stash" them, we simply don't sign them to their rookie contract/they don't negotiate a buyout.  But if what you say is true that stashing results in no cap hold, what's to stop us from using the cap space and then negotiating a buyout and signing them to their rookie deals (given that their cap hold is greater than the generic roster spot cap hold)? 

Where's Larry Coon...I mean saltover?

Edit:  also the faq section you quoted said that they don't count against the cap during the regular season, not before then.

[trickybilly]

To do a trade you have to get matching salary back!!

If this can cost us Horford and Durant I say pass on both Amir and jerebko... (reluctantly for Jerebko. ;-( but safer to keep our option open...)

Everyone will have cap space, no need to match salaries.

No one is going to p--- away cap space on Jerebko and Amir.

Seriously, the idea that we would pick up the options on these guys is so dumb.

In the off chance that we don't guarantee these deals, would you care for a friendly wager that some other team pays one or both of them more than their current deal? I will PM you with a figure for the wager.

[trickybilly]

The cap hold is not zero though, at least for 1st rounders. Their hold is dependent on the scale of where they were picked.

Second rounders I'm not sure, those might not have any cap hold as you imply.

You're right: stashing removes the cap hold that's placed on the team's books. My bad.

You may be right, but I am suspicious of this.  Yabu and zizic are currently under contract with foreign teams (I believe).  There's no actual mechanism to "stash" them, we simply don't sign them to their rookie contract/they don't negotiate a buyout.  But if what you say is true that stashing results in no cap hold, what's to stop us from using the cap space and then negotiating a buyout and signing them to their rookie deals (given that their cap hold is greater than the generic roster spot cap hold)? 

Where's Larry Coon...I mean saltover?

Nothing. That is how it would be done exactly.

[BitterJim]

The cap hold is not zero though, at least for 1st rounders. Their hold is dependent on the scale of where they were picked.

Second rounders I'm not sure, those might not have any cap hold as you imply.

You're right: stashing removes the cap hold that's placed on the team's books. My bad.

You may be right, but I am suspicious of this.  Yabu and zizic are currently under contract with foreign teams (I believe).  There's no actual mechanism to "stash" them, we simply don't sign them to their rookie contract/they don't negotiate a buyout.  But if what you say is true that stashing results in no cap hold, what's to stop us from using the cap space and then negotiating a buyout and signing them to their rookie deals (given that their cap hold is greater than the generic roster spot cap hold)? 

Where's Larry Coon...I mean saltover?

This is not true.  Rookies we plan to stash will have a cap hold until the season starts.  From the CBA FAQs:

If a first round pick signs with a non-NBA team, his scale amount is excluded from the team salary on the date he signs his non-NBA contract or the first day of the regular season, whichever is later

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q52

[BudweiserCeltic]

The cap hold is not zero though, at least for 1st rounders. Their hold is dependent on the scale of where they were picked.

Second rounders I'm not sure, those might not have any cap hold as you imply.

You're right: stashing removes the cap hold that's placed on the team's books. My bad.

You may be right, but I am suspicious of this.  Yabu and zizic are currently under contract with foreign teams (I believe).  There's no actual mechanism to "stash" them, we simply don't sign them to their rookie contract/they don't negotiate a buyout.  But if what you say is true that stashing results in no cap hold, what's to stop us from using the cap space and then negotiating a buyout and signing them to their rookie deals (given that their cap hold is greater than the generic roster spot cap hold)? 

Where's Larry Coon...I mean saltover?

Edit:  also the faq section you quoted said that they don't count against the cap during the regular season, not before then.

Not sure at this point, will have to see how it plays out. I'll ask Eric Pincus later once he's updated the salary tables for free-agency.

Edit: Seems like BitterJim got it.

[fantankerous]

The cap hold is not zero though, at least for 1st rounders. Their hold is dependent on the scale of where they were picked.

Second rounders I'm not sure, those might not have any cap hold as you imply.

You're right: stashing removes the cap hold that's placed on the team's books. My bad.

You may be right, but I am suspicious of this.  Yabu and zizic are currently under contract with foreign teams (I believe).  There's no actual mechanism to "stash" them, we simply don't sign them to their rookie contract/they don't negotiate a buyout.  But if what you say is true that stashing results in no cap hold, what's to stop us from using the cap space and then negotiating a buyout and signing them to their rookie deals (given that their cap hold is greater than the generic roster spot cap hold)? 

Where's Larry Coon...I mean saltover?

Nothing. That is how it would be done exactly.

Of course.  But the question is whether we can clear their cap hold during the offseason since there is no official stashing mechanism.

Edit:  BitterJim answered it.  Thank you sir.  TP to you!