Note - options on Amir and Jerebko due Thursday

[jpotter33]

http://www.celticsblog.com/2016/6/12/11916628/expect-celtics-to-pick-up-options-on-amir-johnson-and-jonas-jerebko

Just a heads up - we have to make a decision on Thursday whether or not we plan on picking up the options of Amir and Jerebko.

This article makes a pretty reasonable argument for picking up their options and just trading them should we need the cap space to sign two max free agents.

So it will be interesting to see what happens with them. I'm guessing we end up picking them up since it won't be difficult to find homes for them, but it'd definitely be interesting to see if Danny would go ahead and deny those options in anticipation of needing the cap space.

[danglertx]

I think you decline them, resign them on one year deals if you need to do so.  I can't imagine there will be a huge market out there for Amir Johnson and Jonas Jerebko.   Both might end up signing somewhere for less money than they'd make under current contracts. 

I don't think there is any metric that would suggest Amir was worth $12 mil last year and Jonas $8mil or whatever it was.

[BitterJim]

http://www.celticsblog.com/2016/6/12/11916628/expect-celtics-to-pick-up-options-on-amir-johnson-and-jonas-jerebko

Just a heads up - we have to make a decision on Thursday whether or not we plan on picking up the options of Amir and Jerebko.

This article makes a pretty reasonable argument for picking up their options and just trading them should we need the cap space to sign two max free agents.

So it will be interesting to see what happens with them. I'm guessing we end up picking them up since it won't be difficult to find homes for them, but it'd definitely be interesting to see if Danny would go ahead and deny those options in anticipation of needing the cap space.

If Danny declines the options, I think he's pretty much guaranteed to be offering the max to someone besides Durant.  It'll be interesting to see, but I think he'll pick up the options.  I'd be willing to bet that he already has takers if he need to ditch them (we could also see only one of them getting picked up, which would make me think that Danny has a suitor for one, but not both, of them)

[BudweiserCeltic]

Thursday? I was pretty sure the option was for July 2 or so...

[saltlover]

There's no way either aren't picked up in my mind.  Both should easily be be traded for seconds.  A lot of teams who miss out on a player this year will love a solid rotation player on a reasonable expiring, which allows the team to try again next year.

[saltlover]

Thursday? I was pretty sure the option was for July 2 or so...

They have to clear waivers by July 3rd, and they stay on waivers for 72 hours (or 48? I forget.  But that's why they must be released early.)

[Lucky17]

I thought both of them had fully non-guaranteed deals for next season (up to an early July trigger date), not any sort of team options.

[BitterJim]

I think you decline them, resign them on one year deals if you need to do so.  I can't imagine there will be a huge market out there for Amir Johnson and Jonas Jerebko.   Both might end up signing somewhere for less money than they'd make under current contracts. 

I don't think there is any metric that would suggest Amir was worth $12 mil last year and Jonas $8mil or whatever it was.

Amir will definitely get more than $12 million if he's a FA again this summer.  The market for bigs is insane.  Jerebko has a $5 million salary, and I think he can get that again given that he shot almost 40% from three this year, but I doubt he gets much more (but you never know)

[saltlover]

I thought both of them had fully non-guaranteed deals for next season (up to an early July trigger date), not any sort of team options.

That's correct.  People are sloppy with non-guaranteed deals, and often call them team options.

That said, because non-guaranteed players must be released, and clear waivers, by their guarantee date, this is why the two must be released (rather than have their option declined) by June 30th.  For the Celtics, the decision must essentially be made on the same date as a team option.  Unlike team option players, however, they were eligible for trade on draft night.

[jpotter33]

I thought both of them had fully non-guaranteed deals for next season (up to an early July trigger date), not any sort of team options.

Here's what the article says:

"Both Johnson and Jerebko have non-guaranteed contracts at salaries that should look like bargains in the new salary cap climate, but both contracts reportedly become guaranteed July 3, which means the Celtics must decide before the start of open negotiations whether they want to keep one or both around at those prices. However, both contracts are good values for which other teams likely would be happy to trade."

48 hours to clear waivers would put that date of June 30th about right.

[Chief]

Let them both walk. Although I like them, we can do better.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Thursday? I was pretty sure the option was for July 2 or so...

They have to clear waivers by July 3rd, and they stay on waivers for 72 hours (or 48? I forget.  But that's why they must be released early.)

48 I think. With that in mind, they can waive him at 5pm on July 1 and make the cut. Seems July 3 is the deadline.

I'm still not buying the rule of having to clear waivers by then. I think you can waive them at the deadline.

[Lucky17]

I thought both of them had fully non-guaranteed deals for next season (up to an early July trigger date), not any sort of team options.

That's correct.  People are sloppy with non-guaranteed deals, and often call them team options.

That said, because non-guaranteed players must be released, and clear waivers, by their guarantee date, this is why the two must be released (rather than have their option declined) by June 30th.  For the Celtics, the decision must essentially be made on the same date as a team option.  Unlike team option players, however, they were eligible for trade on draft night.

Thus, if either are to be involved in a trade, the new team must be able to submit the waiver claim in advance of the trigger date, correct? So, if either are to be traded (for cap relief purposes for the acquiring team), we'll need to hear about it soon?

[BudweiserCeltic]

I thought both of them had fully non-guaranteed deals for next season (up to an early July trigger date), not any sort of team options.

Here's what the article says:

"Both Johnson and Jerebko have non-guaranteed contracts at salaries that should look like bargains in the new salary cap climate, but both contracts reportedly become guaranteed July 3, which means the Celtics must decide before the start of open negotiations whether they want to keep one or both around at those prices. However, both contracts are good values for which other teams likely would be happy to trade."

48 hours to clear waivers would put that date of June 30th about right.

I'm still trying to find the rule that says that the player has to have cleared waivers before the trigger date. Unless it's a general understanding in practice, I've yet to stumble upon that rule, and reading the article you linked, and subsequently the FAQ it links to, I don't see it there either.

I'm iffy on this rule at the moment, unless someone can point me in the right direction. Since no one can truly say if "waived" means to have cleared by the trigger date  or simply put on waivers on or before the trigger date.

Hopefully someone with better understanding than me can elaborate.

Edit:

OK found the reference that might be in relation tot his if one follows the same logic, so it seems that the interpretation is correct:

In addition, on January 10 the base salary in all contracts becomes guaranteed for the remainder of that season (except for one case -- see question 67). A player must clear waivers before this date, so teams have to waive players by 5:00 PM Eastern Time on January 7th in order to have them off their rosters before January 10.

So if we change the trigger date to July 3, the you guys are correct it seems and it'll have to occur  on Thursday by 5pm.

Mystery solved, for me, it seems.

I thought we'd have at least 1 day of free-agency to scope the landscape before this decision is made. Not as good a contract as I hoped we had.

Honestly, I prefer not to keep either of them if we have to make a decision this soon.

[Lucky17]

I think this is the relevant info.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q64

Some salaries are only partially guaranteed, and/or the guaranteed amount can change based on certain conditions. For example, the salary in the final season of a player's contract might be unprotected for lack of skill, with the protection changing to full if the team has not requested waivers on the player (see question number 65) prior to the team's first regular season game of that season^1. The protection can even be tied to performance benchmarks -- for example a player's guaranteed amount might increase if he played 1,600 minutes the previous season. However, in practice these types of performance-based guarantees are rare.

. . . .

^1 A non-guaranteed season can be similar in function to a team option. Teams often prefer the additional flexibility provided by non-guaranteed salary -- the guarantee can change on a date of their choosing, they can guarantee partial amounts, and they can attach different conditions to the protection.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q65

The waiving team continues to pay the guaranteed portion of the terminated contract (see question number 64). For contracts signed or extended before the current CBA took effect, the team and player may negotiate a revised payment schedule (see question numbers 67 and 68). The revised payment schedule may call for the guaranteed portion of the player's salary to be paid over a longer or shorter period of time than originally specified in the contract, or even as a lump sum.

Waiving the player is the mechanism by which the team removes the player from the roster, and waivers must be completed by the trigger date (per #65).