How far would you have been willing to go to trade for Jimmy Butler?

[vjcsmoke]

But that wasn't the price.  What I heard was something more like AB + Crowder + #3 + Brooklyn 2017 (likely a top 5 pick) and more to make the salaries match.  That is a TON to give up for Butler.  It's an overpay package that makes what DA offered for Winslow look like chump change in comparison.  AB and Crowder are two starters on our team, and both those picks are top 5 lottery picks in the NBA draft.

3rd + crowder + 16
Seems pretty fair as well as since crowder had a poor showing after his injury
So bulls don't really know what is happening there

3rd allows them to get Dunn who they really like
Crowder replaces butler
They can choose someone else with 16

I think bulls would've wanted more
Probably Brooklyn picks and Bradley

[jambr380]

I guess the real question is how good do you think Jimmy Butler is (and Faf has done a nice job providing statistics to back up his opinion)? He is better than Avery, but Avery also fits his NBA role so nicely that merely comparing the two doesn't really do him justice. Jimmy Butler is an all-star and can likely be a 2nd/3rd option on a contending team, but I don't put him in that upper-echelon of above average all-star/superstar. Again, that is just my opinion.

My take has always been Avery, Young/RJ, #3, #23, and however many 2nds they wanted. I am fine with this deal not getting done - unless, of course, it's the reason we don't get Durant (I don't think that's the case). Crowder was completely off the table for me.

[CelticGuardian]

I know what's done is done. I'm not interested in piling on Danny for not pulling the trigger on a trade.

I know Danny doesn't like to lose a trade deal....and rumor has it that Chicago was going to make him overpay to get Butler. However, it seems that with all the assets we had, I wonder why we couldn't make this year an exception.

Giving up the #3 draft pick, trading Avery Bradley and Jae Crowder would have been a huge price to pay, but ultimately, you still get to keep your #1 player (Isaiah Thomas) and you have the benefit of adding another All-Star NBA player to your team - someone who could attract big-name Fee Agents and other established players.

I might have drawn the line at trading this year and next year's Brooklyn pick, but we have the resources to overpay...so why not overpay? The draft is such a crap shoot anyhow...right?

Did Butler attract FAs in Chicago? Lol Nope... Our team is better than his, that should speak to the impact of these players we have that we will give away just for a guy's "all-star" accolade to be used as ammunition for a pitch to Durant. That reeks of desperation! And there's too much risk involved! Butler has to prove he can win before I trade the farm for him, why are Celtics fans so Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.n desperate?

[Ilikesports17]

I know what's done is done. I'm not interested in piling on Danny for not pulling the trigger on a trade.

I know Danny doesn't like to lose a trade deal....and rumor has it that Chicago was going to make him overpay to get Butler. However, it seems that with all the assets we had, I wonder why we couldn't make this year an exception.

Giving up the #3 draft pick, trading Avery Bradley and Jae Crowder would have been a huge price to pay, but ultimately, you still get to keep your #1 player (Isaiah Thomas) and you have the benefit of adding another All-Star NBA player to your team - someone who could attract big-name Fee Agents and other established players.

I might have drawn the line at trading this year and next year's Brooklyn pick, but we have the resources to overpay...so why not overpay? The draft is such a crap shoot anyhow...right?

Did Butler attract FAs in Chicago? Lol Nope... Our team is better than his, that should speak to the impact of these players we have that we will give away just for a guy's "all-star" accolade to be used as ammunition for a pitch to Durant. That reeks of desperation! And there's too much risk involved! Butler has to prove he can win before I trade the farm for him, why are Celtics fans so ****n desperate?

Jimmy was the best player on the 50 win Bulls that lost to the Cavs in the second round of the playoffs, but in that series Jimmy went toe to toe with Lebron for 4 games and was a buzzer beater away from taking a 3-1 lead. After that Lebron took over. Lets not pretend Jimmys never been a winner. Also, in games he played last year the team played at a win pace that would have made the playoffs (I wanna say 46 win pace).

Other than that, I agree. I just dont like labeling Butler a loser.

[Granath]

All-star, also all defense, and by most metrics worth around 11 wins. Bradley is worth around 4-5 last year by the same metrics.

He also adds more of what the team needs offensively. Ability to get to the rim/line and create off the dribble.

You selectively quoted the post. Go back and re-read the whole thing please. If you do, you'll find the gist of the post is:

1. You'll find that I value Butler more than Bradley by a significant amount.
2. But giving up too much to upgrade an already-strong position by weakening an already thin one is a really bad way to build a team.

Which is why I've consistently said that Butler was worth more to Chicago than he was to the Celtics.

PS-Butler had 9 win shares last year, not 11.

[walker834]

I would have done any move that didn't sacrifice our flexibility or future.  Even if we got Butler there is non guarantee we are getting Durant at this point. The trade that was rumored  AB+3+JJ  I think it was I would have done. Butler would get us out of the 1st round but isn't winning us anything by himself.   The deals that were proposed from the other side where we were giving up our whole team or taking on bad contracts no. 

AB+3+JJ was fair.  AB is a really good sg and underrated.  I'm fine keeping him and jaylen and JJ honestly and sort of glad we did anyways.  I would have done that though mainly because Butler is the best player in it and roster space.   Jaylen could be one day though.

[footey]

All three first rounders and Crowder or 3,16, Smart and Crowder..

Smart is only worth a 23rd pick in 1st round?? Really??

[chiken Green]

not sure what the fascination is with guys wanting to compare our 2nd or 3rd option (on a playoff team) to another Teams #1 option (on a non playoff team) and then get excited that that guy Averaged 6 more points (while averaging almost 6 more minutes.)

IF the roles were reversed and Bradley had played on Chicago last year and averaged 20 points you would be screaming that Chicago was not a playoff team so it doesn't matter.

And please with the All star talk - its a glorified popularity contest.

the Truth is Jimmy B is a pretty darn good player but not a Super Star.. He plays in Chicago so he gets a bit more shine but that's it..  He had a super game once and fans wont let that go.. And yea  he was close to beating Lebron in the 2nd round..

No NON superstar is worth 3 starters..  IF you guys just want a name on the team then go get Dwight Howard..   But if you actually want to win then continue to build on what we are doing, don't strip it just to add popular pieces.

Again he is good, [dang] good but his lack of a 3 ball and his ball dominate style and most important the huge chunk of the cap it will take to get him will pretty much leave you as a 2nd round and exit team.. 

We have a better chance in the next  6 years of winning a chip with Brown then w/ Butler..

[celticmania]

He's okay

[PhoSita]

I would've offered #3 plus however many other picks in this draft that Chicago wanted, plus Chicago's pick of Smart, Avery or Crowder.  If that wasn't enough, I'd offer Chicago's choice of Rozier / Hunter / Young / Olynyk / Mickey as sweetener.

No BRK picks after this year on the table.  Not trading more than one of Smart / AB / Crowder.

[PhoSita]

And Butler is still a ++ defender, making 2nd team all defense 3 years in a row now.

More importantly, Butler is a very VERSATILE defender.  He can switch onto guys 1-4.  And he's a quality rebounder, which is additional defensive value often overlooked for guards / wings.

Avery, on the other hand, is a guard defender.  He's awesome defending guys 6'4'' and under.  But I don't love him for switching purposes.  The primary appeal of Avery is that you can stick him on an opposing guard and just keep him there, no switches needed.

[td450]

And Butler is still a ++ defender, making 2nd team all defense 3 years in a row now.

More importantly, Butler is a very VERSATILE defender.  He can switch onto guys 1-4.  And he's a quality rebounder, which is additional defensive value often overlooked for guards / wings.

Avery, on the other hand, is a guard defender.  He's awesome defending guys 6'4'' and under.  But I don't love him for switching purposes.  The primary appeal of Avery is that you can stick him on an opposing guard and just keep him there, no switches needed.

I didn't see that last year at all, and I've heard Ainge and Stevens say the same. One major improvement in Avery's D last year was his ability to make plays on switches against some of the best small forwards in the league.

I agree Butler is an excellent and versatile defender, but Avery does something clearly better than anyone in the league; he can apply heavy pressure on the league's best ball handlers. Given the way the NBA is trending these days, I wouldn't give that up. I'd rather move Crowder or Smart to get Butler.

[Bobshot]

I don't think Butler is completely out of the picture. It depends on the needs after free agency. Ainge could make another run at Butler with a better offer. He'd be in a better position to do so than during the draft.

[__ramonezy__]

The most I would give is the #3 + Bradley for Butler. And I honestly feel that would be a fair trade.

Bradley is an All-NBA defensive player, that has better shooting percentages and able to play off the ball.

With the #3, the Bulls could have drafted Dunn to be their primary ball handler and run the offense.

The reason why Butler and Rose couldn't co-exist is because both are ball dominant players that are predominantly slashers. That type of play kills off-ball movement because players know they won't get it. With Dunn and Bradley the Bulls' offense may have actually flowed better without Rose and Butler.

But hey I'm a celtic fan so my opinion may be biased

[dreamgreen]

I would've offered #3 plus however many other picks in this draft that Chicago wanted, plus Chicago's pick of Smart, Avery or Crowder.  If that wasn't enough, I'd offer Chicago's choice of Rozier / Hunter / Young / Olynyk / Mickey as sweetener.

No BRK picks after this year on the table.  Not trading more than one of Smart / AB / Crowder.

You always make so much sense, agree 100%.