some days i wonder if fans are just ignorant or mean

[kozlodoev]

Boston has a great tradition of discourse and honesty. William James once called it the "conversation capital of America." Look: "fireworks" were promised. And none were delivered. Brown is consistent with the type of player Danny has been drafting for years - the great majority of whom haven't panned out. Shooting translates. Danny has drafted a bunch of non shooters.

Revisionist history is fantastic. Especially when it is patently false.

Virtually every player that Ainge has picked in the first round has amounted to some sort of a rotation NBA player. That's far from a given, and is an especially strong asset given that he's only made a handful of picks in the lottery.

Ainge has also picked quite a number of shooters. I'm not surprise you don't remember them (hint: they didn't pan out). Gabe Pruitt, Gerald Green, JR Giddens, James Young, RJ Hunter (and later in the second round, guys like Lester Hudson ETWaun Moore, and Kris Joseph) all came into the league billed  as shooters (of various degree of capability). None of them has amounted to anything significant in the league with the exception of Green and Moore, and they're not exactly world beaters.

[MaxAMillion]

because marcus was picked at 6 he is a bust-i say he is the best young defender that i have ever watched as a rookie
nobody takes into consideration the catastrophic injuries and the down time and after effects to play and stats
milsap claims he was tired -i have never heard marcus opt out like that
-he didn't tell people how much his ankle hurt till midway through the summer
 when it was better
-never used injuries as an excuse for poor shooting last year
now the fans are starting in on brown his shining moment to become a celtic at 19yrs old and he gets booed-what is wrong with you people
danny did not destroy the culture that is the boston celtics,he is rebuilding  with a young coach an exciting team with a high draft positions while never tanking
 this years draft was accomplished while  leaving room for a double max-
you are lucky to have this orginization,managment and core of young players that have reached the playoffs twice and if those imjuries didn't occur i believe could have beat atlanta-

Wait so we are lucky to have Ainge? Like I said, he will get praised no matter what he does (and the owner counts on it). I was glad to see the owner get a dose of reality. You don't just get to make any claim you want and have everyone nod in approval like we are in church (although this site does feel like the Church of Ainge sometimes).

[kraidstar]

Boston has a great tradition of discourse and honesty. William James once called it the "conversation capital of America." Look: "fireworks" were promised. And none were delivered. Brown is consistent with the type of player Danny has been drafting for years - the great majority of whom haven't panned out. Shooting translates. Danny has drafted a bunch of non shooters.

Great, you're waving a flag for management. Whoa! And maybe you have some valid points. But - maybe those who think management is not doing a great job have valid points also.

How do you contribute to the great Bostonian tradition of conversation and discourse by calling those who hold a different opinion "ignorant," or "mean." That's teenager talk. Don't strike out at other people merely because you disagree. Be willing to listen.

I'm all for being convinced that this team will be great next year. Explain to me why Smart will develop next year. Tell me how Brown is NBA ready. Point out how a pure shooter like Hield at 3 will prove unnecessary. But don't call me childish names because you have a different opinion.

Not only does it cause me to lose respect for you - it leads me to wonder whether all those who support management have a similarly limited capacity to reason as to leave nothing but resort to insults. In simple terms: your ad hominem attacks dishonor both yourself, and your arguments.

If we are being 'honest', then technically, no.  No fireworks were ever 'promised'.

"I’ve got confidence that with all these picks and these young guys and our willingness to spend money that we can get there," he told the Globe. "We’re a patient group. We will take a multiyear plan if that’s what it takes. But I think this June there could be some fireworks. I think this June we’ve got so many pieces to this puzzle that we might be able to shake loose a real piece or two for this team going forward. So, I’m hoping it’s sooner rather than later."
http://archive.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/2014/03/13/wyc-grousbeck-optimistic-about-celtics-future/lYGvNXatP4uYP1FDasao8O/story.html?camp=rss:celtics&dlvrit=834394

There are no promises in that quote.  I emphasized some words that maybe folks missed when they first read it.

I stand by what I said earlier: I will never, ever again believe another word out of Wyc Grousbeck's mouth. You can parse his comments however you like.

He needs to shut up. He just makes himself and the club look bad when he opens his mouth.

I like Wyc. I think hes a good guys and a fan and i think he is committed to building the right way. Im a big Ainge fan so extending Ainge and Stevens was something I was really a fan of.

That said, he makes a lot of comments that whether intentional or not (I believe some are innocent, but most arent) drum up a lot of excitement for season tickets etc. Its good for business if theres buzz about the Cs. When I first saw Wyc get booed I felt bad, but looking back, I think it was right. The fans sent the message. If you are gonna hype us up and imply that we are about KG our way back into contention you better make good on that. Either that or shut up. Again, I love Wyc as an owner, I believe his heart is 100% in the right place, but the fans reminded him that he was always gonna be held accountable.

TP

I'm pretty much where you're at. Wyc is a great owner - after all, he went way over the cap, putting the team into the red  because he knew we had a limited championship window. Teams like the Thunder and Grizzlies might have championships if their owners were as financially committed to winning as Wyc is.


But sometimes he gets carried away, and his fanboy-ish comments create unrealistic expectations. As an owner of the C's he is the ultimate insider. His words carry weight. A KG/Ray Allen type instant rebuild was unlikely, considering we didn't have our "pierce," and the Brooklyn picks had not yet coalesced into the treasure that they are now. If he had worded the "fireworks" comments more cautiously, he would not be facing this backlash.

[jaketwice]

Boston has a great tradition of discourse and honesty. William James once called it the "conversation capital of America." Look: "fireworks" were promised. And none were delivered. Brown is consistent with the type of player Danny has been drafting for years - the great majority of whom haven't panned out. Shooting translates. Danny has drafted a bunch of non shooters.

Revisionist history is fantastic. Especially when it is patently false.

Virtually every player that Ainge has picked in the first round has amounted to some sort of a rotation NBA player. That's far from a given, and is an especially strong asset given that he's only made a handful of picks in the lottery.

Ainge has also picked quite a number of shooters. I'm not surprise you don't remember them (hint: they didn't pan out). Gabe Pruitt, Gerald Green, JR Giddens, James Young, RJ Hunter (and later in the second round, guys like Lester Hudson ETWaun Moore, and Kris Joseph) all came into the league billed  as shooters (of various degree of capability). None of them has amounted to anything significant in the league with the exception of Green and Moore, and they're not exactly world beaters.

What do you mean? There had always been questions about Giddens' and Young's shot selection. Pruitt was always out of control. Green was known for athleticism. lol at Hudson as a shooter. The only time he ever did better than 30% from deep was the year he took 58 shots. Hunter didn't have a good short percentage in college.

Serious question: what are you talking about?

[Neurotic Guy]

I am sorry you missed Kevin Garnett as a rookie, Rollie.

Or Pippen.

Or Bill Russell.

Or Gary Payton

Or Fat Lever

Or Clyde Frazier

Or Jerry Sloan

Or Joe Dumars

Or Hondo ...

I'm getting tired here.

My point: Smart is FAR from the best rookie defender I've ever seen.

But I'll grant you this: Smart can out-flop any of them.

maybe i should have said celtics rookie,i had to look up some of the players stats -i started with walt frazier and promptly admitted to myself that i was swayed by only what i was seeing through my celtics glasses--maybe because it was eras of handchecks and so long ago and i was only thinking guards-maybe i heard this from mike gorman,  forget tommy-so i defer to your superior grasp of history-point taken

Give yourself a break Rollie -- you'd have to be a basketball savant to recall with any specificity what Frazier, Lever, Hondo, Sloan, etc. "looked like" as rookies defensively.  I am probably in the same ballpark age-wise as you guys and I can safely say that the 4 year old me does not recall breaking down John Havlicek's rookie defensive skills in 1962 (especially not to the point where I could make a legitimate comparison to Smart's rookie season).   

One thing to add to the discussion.  With the exeption of KG, I think everyone on the list had 3 years on Marcus Smart in his respective rookie season (Sloan was 23 his rookie season).   

[timpiker]

I think we are very lucky and I think some people just to Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline..  Kind of like that big mouth Felger Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline..

[Beat LA]

Boston has a great tradition of discourse and honesty. William James once called it the "conversation capital of America." Look: "fireworks" were promised. And none were delivered. Brown is consistent with the type of player Danny has been drafting for years - the great majority of whom haven't panned out. Shooting translates. Danny has drafted a bunch of non shooters.

Revisionist history is fantastic. Especially when it is patently false.

Virtually every player that Ainge has picked in the first round has amounted to some sort of a rotation NBA player. That's far from a given, and is an especially strong asset given that he's only made a handful of picks in the lottery.

Ainge has also picked quite a number of shooters. I'm not surprise you don't remember them (hint: they didn't pan out). Gabe Pruitt, Gerald Green, JR Giddens, James Young, RJ Hunter (and later in the second round, guys like Lester Hudson ETWaun Moore, and Kris Joseph) all came into the league billed  as shooters (of various degree of capability). None of them has amounted to anything significant in the league with the exception of Green and Moore, and they're not exactly world beaters.

Umm, you just contradicted yourself, or did I just miss Fab Melo, Jujuan Johnson and the other guys highlighted, above, suddenly becoming any form of a rotation player, although I think it's too early to say anything about Hunter, in an alternate universe? That's at least a fair amount of misses, so I also don't think that you can say that 'virtually every player Ainge has drafted in the first round has amounted to some sort of a rotation NBA player', or have I misunderstood you?

[TheFlex]

Great post rollie, as usual. We are lucky to root for the Celtics.  That shouldn't prevent us from criticizing them when it's fair to do so, but most of the complaining around here seems to come from malcontents who are quiet when proven wrong and obnoxiously loud when there's even the slightest evidence that they may be right. Thankfully, there are still some rational posters on here such as yourself who offer sound insight and reasoned criticism.

[CoachBo]

because marcus was picked at 6 he is a bust-i say he is the best young defender that i have ever watched as a rookie
nobody takes into consideration the catastrophic injuries and the down time and after effects to play and stats
milsap claims he was tired -i have never heard marcus opt out like that
-he didn't tell people how much his ankle hurt till midway through the summer
 when it was better
-never used injuries as an excuse for poor shooting last year
now the fans are starting in on brown his shining moment to become a celtic at 19yrs old and he gets booed-what is wrong with you people
danny did not destroy the culture that is the boston celtics,he is rebuilding  with a young coach an exciting team with a high draft positions while never tanking
 this years draft was accomplished while  leaving room for a double max-
you are lucky to have this orginization,managment and core of young players that have reached the playoffs twice and if those imjuries didn't occur i believe could have beat atlanta-

Wait so we are lucky to have Ainge? Like I said, he will get praised no matter what he does (and the owner counts on it). I was glad to see the owner get a dose of reality. You don't just get to make any claim you want and have everyone nod in approval like we are in church (although this site does feel like the Church of Ainge sometimes).

It used to be the Church of Rondo.

Now it's the Church of Ainge.

With some dedicated nonbelievers sprinkled among the congregation.

TP.

[hwangjini_1]

Boston has a great tradition of discourse and honesty. William James once called it the "conversation capital of America." Look: "fireworks" were promised. And none were delivered. Brown is consistent with the type of player Danny has been drafting for years - the great majority of whom haven't panned out. Shooting translates. Danny has drafted a bunch of non shooters.

Revisionist history is fantastic. Especially when it is patently false.

Virtually every player that Ainge has picked in the first round has amounted to some sort of a rotation NBA player. That's far from a given, and is an especially strong asset given that he's only made a handful of picks in the lottery.

Ainge has also picked quite a number of shooters. I'm not surprise you don't remember them (hint: they didn't pan out). Gabe Pruitt, Gerald Green, JR Giddens, James Young, RJ Hunter (and later in the second round, guys like Lester Hudson ETWaun Moore, and Kris Joseph) all came into the league billed  as shooters (of various degree of capability). None of them has amounted to anything significant in the league with the exception of Green and Moore, and they're not exactly world beaters.

Umm, you just contradicted yourself, or did I just miss Fab Melo, Jujuan Johnson and the other guys highlighted, above, suddenly becoming any form of a rotation player, although I think it's too early to say anything about Hunter, in an alternate universe? That's at least a fair amount of misses, so I also don't think that you can say that 'virtually every player Ainge has drafted in the first round has amounted to some sort of a rotation NBA player', or have I misunderstood you?

So.. You are arguing the "posters are mean" side of the debate?

[jaketwice]

Great post rollie, as usual. We are lucky to root for the Celtics.  That shouldn't prevent us from criticizing them when it's fair to do so, but most of the complaining around here seems to come from malcontents who are quiet when proven wrong and obnoxiously loud when there's even the slightest evidence that they may be right. Thankfully, there are still some rational posters on here such as yourself who offer sound insight and reasoned criticism.

And that, my friends, is butt kissing. You may think you don't know how, or that it is beneath you. But here is a master at work. Smooch!

[GratefulCs]

because marcus was picked at 6 he is a bust-i say he is the best young defender that i have ever watched as a rookie
nobody takes into consideration the catastrophic injuries and the down time and after effects to play and stats
milsap claims he was tired -i have never heard marcus opt out like that
-he didn't tell people how much his ankle hurt till midway through the summer
 when it was better
-never used injuries as an excuse for poor shooting last year
now the fans are starting in on brown his shining moment to become a celtic at 19yrs old and he gets booed-what is wrong with you people
danny did not destroy the culture that is the boston celtics,he is rebuilding  with a young coach an exciting team with a high draft positions while never tanking
 this years draft was accomplished while  leaving room for a double max-
you are lucky to have this orginization,managment and core of young players that have reached the playoffs twice and if those imjuries didn't occur i believe could have beat atlanta-

Wait so we are lucky to have Ainge? Like I said, he will get praised no matter what he does (and the owner counts on it). I was glad to see the owner get a dose of reality. You don't just get to make any claim you want and have everyone nod in approval like we are in church (although this site does feel like the Church of Ainge sometimes).

It used to be the Church of Rondo.

Now it's the Church of Ainge.

With some dedicated nonbelievers sprinkled among the congregation.

TP.

the non believers seem to be a lot louder and irrational

[CoachBo]

because marcus was picked at 6 he is a bust-i say he is the best young defender that i have ever watched as a rookie
nobody takes into consideration the catastrophic injuries and the down time and after effects to play and stats
milsap claims he was tired -i have never heard marcus opt out like that
-he didn't tell people how much his ankle hurt till midway through the summer
 when it was better
-never used injuries as an excuse for poor shooting last year
now the fans are starting in on brown his shining moment to become a celtic at 19yrs old and he gets booed-what is wrong with you people
danny did not destroy the culture that is the boston celtics,he is rebuilding  with a young coach an exciting team with a high draft positions while never tanking
 this years draft was accomplished while  leaving room for a double max-
you are lucky to have this orginization,managment and core of young players that have reached the playoffs twice and if those imjuries didn't occur i believe could have beat atlanta-

Wait so we are lucky to have Ainge? Like I said, he will get praised no matter what he does (and the owner counts on it). I was glad to see the owner get a dose of reality. You don't just get to make any claim you want and have everyone nod in approval like we are in church (although this site does feel like the Church of Ainge sometimes).

It used to be the Church of Rondo.

Now it's the Church of Ainge.

With some dedicated nonbelievers sprinkled among the congregation.

TP.

the non believers seem to be a lot louder and irrational

Funny.

I'd say that about the believers.

[GratefulCs]

because marcus was picked at 6 he is a bust-i say he is the best young defender that i have ever watched as a rookie
nobody takes into consideration the catastrophic injuries and the down time and after effects to play and stats
milsap claims he was tired -i have never heard marcus opt out like that
-he didn't tell people how much his ankle hurt till midway through the summer
 when it was better
-never used injuries as an excuse for poor shooting last year
now the fans are starting in on brown his shining moment to become a celtic at 19yrs old and he gets booed-what is wrong with you people
danny did not destroy the culture that is the boston celtics,he is rebuilding  with a young coach an exciting team with a high draft positions while never tanking
 this years draft was accomplished while  leaving room for a double max-
you are lucky to have this orginization,managment and core of young players that have reached the playoffs twice and if those imjuries didn't occur i believe could have beat atlanta-

Wait so we are lucky to have Ainge? Like I said, he will get praised no matter what he does (and the owner counts on it). I was glad to see the owner get a dose of reality. You don't just get to make any claim you want and have everyone nod in approval like we are in church (although this site does feel like the Church of Ainge sometimes).

It used to be the Church of Rondo.

Now it's the Church of Ainge.

With some dedicated nonbelievers sprinkled among the congregation.

TP.

the non believers seem to be a lot louder and irrational

Funny.

I'd say that about the believers.

i know 

[Eja117]

Boston has a great tradition of discourse and honesty. William James once called it the "conversation capital of America." Look: "fireworks" were promised. And none were delivered. Brown is consistent with the type of player Danny has been drafting for years - the great majority of whom haven't panned out. Shooting translates. Danny has drafted a bunch of non shooters.

Revisionist history is fantastic. Especially when it is patently false.

Virtually every player that Ainge has picked in the first round has amounted to some sort of a rotation NBA player. That's far from a given, and is an especially strong asset given that he's only made a handful of picks in the lottery.

Ainge has also picked quite a number of shooters. I'm not surprise you don't remember them (hint: they didn't pan out). Gabe Pruitt, Gerald Green, JR Giddens, James Young, RJ Hunter (and later in the second round, guys like Lester Hudson ETWaun Moore, and Kris Joseph) all came into the league billed  as shooters (of various degree of capability). None of them has amounted to anything significant in the league with the exception of Green and Moore, and they're not exactly world beaters.

Wait. You're saying Ainge has drafted a bunch of shooters...none of whom worked out?

Also Ainge's success at his first rounders becoming NBA rotation players is sorta 50/50 depending on how you count. For example, I don't count Gerald Green at all. Maybe others do.