Author Topic: some days i wonder if fans are just ignorant or mean  (Read 7758 times)

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Re: some days i wonder if fans are just ignorant or mean
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2016, 01:37:43 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Boston has to go forward whether they like it or not and give him a chance.  I liked Ainge's comment "Boo me, not Jaylen."  He's a fine prospect. Boston shouldn't get off on the wrong foot with him. I love the fact he wants to take college classes here.

Re: some days i wonder if fans are just ignorant or mean
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2016, 01:43:40 PM »

Offline PaulP34

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I think the Media is part to blame for the fans reaction to Jaylen Brown. If you go back to the tape of Jaylen getting drafted, the ESPN analyzers went on and on about Danny trading the pick. They made it seem like a given that a trade was imminent. A backlash resulted when no trade happened. Jaylen is going to be a great player, he has nearly identical stats in the first year of college as Pierce.

Bro whether you agreed with me in the past or not about all my predictions that actually turned out to be true so far, you get my TP for this reply.

I've stated over n over how not to fall into the media trap. I never expected any fireworks, never expected a draft day trade that would land us a Jimmy Butler or Paul George, Demarcus Cousins and I never thought Danny would be dumb enough to make a trade with Philly and reward them even more for tanking the season. Why give them Dunn for Noel or Okafor while we can draft Jaylen Brown as our future Paul Pierce type player we need ?

Jaylen Brown is that player this team was lacking. Now let me tell you that in a few years when we have two all stars on the team and we need that one player to get us over the top, Jaylen Brown will be part of that next big three. Who the other two will be is the question but we do have 3 more drafts with either high lottery picks an an unprotected to find them.

I love this pick and I strongly feel this year was a very important year for the rebuild. We just made our future even brighter by not trading away a valuable pick for a guy who's got maybe a 4 year window. I want ten years of greatness not 4.

Re: some days i wonder if fans are just ignorant or mean
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2016, 01:58:44 PM »

Offline Chief

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I thought the booing had more to do with people thinking they might announce a game changing trade.

Fireworks!

I'm fine with Brown. I just want him to get every opportunity to develop on an nba floor this year. This team needs to worry about developing these young players as much as they do winning regular season games.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 02:08:34 PM by Chief »
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Re: some days i wonder if fans are just ignorant or mean
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2016, 02:05:27 PM »

Offline Kuberski33

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I think the Media is part to blame for the fans reaction to Jaylen Brown. If you go back to the tape of Jaylen getting drafted, the ESPN analyzers went on and on about Danny trading the pick. They made it seem like a given that a trade was imminent. A backlash resulted when no trade happened. Jaylen is going to be a great player, he has nearly identical stats in the first year of college as Pierce.

Jaylen Brown clearly was not the best player available when he was drafted.  Boston fans aren't stupid as some people think.  That is where the disappointment came from.  But mostly I feel the fans really wanted a trade for that pick more than anything.  With all the trade rumors surrounding Jahil Okafor and Nerlens to the Celtics, a lot of fans I think love the idea.  Not only did it not happen, number 3 pick was blown on a guy clearly not the best player available.

How was Brown "clearly" not BPA?  It was extremely close between the top 5. 
No one can project.  Only thing i could project is that no matter who Ainge took he'd have gotten bashed.  As far as ignorant vs mean I'd say neither.  Overreaction is what fandom is all about.  And everyone's entitled to an opinion.  The problem comes when ownership or management caves to public opinion.

Personally I'd be worried if fans and the media all loved the Brown pick. 

Re: some days i wonder if fans are just ignorant or mean
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2016, 02:25:14 PM »

Offline rollie mass

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I am sorry you missed Kevin Garnett as a rookie, Rollie.

Or Pippen.

Or Bill Russell.

Or Gary Payton

Or Fat Lever

Or Clyde Frazier

Or Jerry Sloan

Or Joe Dumars

Or Hondo ...

I'm getting tired here.

My point: Smart is FAR from the best rookie defender I've ever seen.

But I'll grant you this: Smart can out-flop any of them.
maybe i should have said celtics rookie,i had to look up some of the players stats -i started with walt frazier and promptly admitted to myself that i was swayed by only what i was seeing through my celtics glasses--maybe because it was eras of handchecks and so long ago and i was only thinking guards-maybe i heard this from mike gorman,  forget tommy-so i defer to your superior grasp of history-point taken

Re: some days i wonder if fans are just ignorant or mean
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2016, 02:25:34 PM »

Offline jaketwice

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Boston has a great tradition of discourse and honesty. William James once called it the "conversation capital of America." Look: "fireworks" were promised. And none were delivered. Brown is consistent with the type of player Danny has been drafting for years - the great majority of whom haven't panned out. Shooting translates. Danny has drafted a bunch of non shooters.

Great, you're waving a flag for management. Whoa! And maybe you have some valid points. But - maybe those who think management is not doing a great job have valid points also.

How do you contribute to the great Bostonian tradition of conversation and discourse by calling those who hold a different opinion "ignorant," or "mean." That's teenager talk. Don't strike out at other people merely because you disagree. Be willing to listen.

I'm all for being convinced that this team will be great next year. Explain to me why Smart will develop next year. Tell me how Brown is NBA ready. Point out how a pure shooter like Hield at 3 will prove unnecessary. But don't call me childish names because you have a different opinion.

Not only does it cause me to lose respect for you - it leads me to wonder whether all those who support management have a similarly limited capacity to reason as to leave nothing but resort to insults. In simple terms: your ad hominem attacks dishonor both yourself, and your arguments.


Re: some days i wonder if fans are just ignorant or mean
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2016, 02:35:28 PM »

Offline GratefulCs

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I am sorry you missed Kevin Garnett as a rookie, Rollie.

Or Pippen.

Or Bill Russell.

Or Gary Payton

Or Fat Lever

Or Clyde Frazier

Or Jerry Sloan

Or Joe Dumars

Or Hondo ...

I'm getting tired here.

My point: Smart is FAR from the best rookie defender I've ever seen.

But I'll grant you this: Smart can out-flop any of them.
maybe i should have said celtics rookie,i had to look up some of the players stats -i started with walt frazier and promptly admitted to myself that i was swayed by only what i was seeing through my celtics glasses--maybe because it was eras of handchecks and so long ago and i was only thinking guards-maybe i heard this from mike gorman,  forget tommy-so i defer to your superior grasp of history-point taken
TP


Rollie, you're the best thing that ever happened to this blog


Awesome insight, and the willingness to admit when you're wrong


Celticsblog would be a better place if there were more rollies

I trust Danny Ainge

Re: some days i wonder if fans are just ignorant or mean
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2016, 02:38:46 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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I am sorry you missed Kevin Garnett as a rookie, Rollie.

Or Pippen.

Or Bill Russell.

Or Gary Payton

Or Fat Lever

Or Clyde Frazier

Or Jerry Sloan

Or Joe Dumars

Or Hondo ...

I'm getting tired here.

My point: Smart is FAR from the best rookie defender I've ever seen.

But I'll grant you this: Smart can out-flop any of them.

I saw Garnett, Pippen, Payton, Lever, and Dumars in their rookie years.  The rest are before my time.

And, I'll absolutely put rookie Marcus Smart up against the first year version of any of the above guys as a defender.

I wouldn't put his defensive game up against any of them, quite frankly.

And most were superior offensive players to Smart.

I am not prepared to call him a flop, at all, but the hyperbole surrounding him on this board is entertaining, to say the least. He's just another role player on a team of IT and a bunch of role players, and I'd certainly include him in any deal to increase this team's shooting.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: some days i wonder if fans are just ignorant or mean
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2016, 02:39:40 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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Boston has a great tradition of discourse and honesty. William James once called it the "conversation capital of America." Look: "fireworks" were promised. And none were delivered. Brown is consistent with the type of player Danny has been drafting for years - the great majority of whom haven't panned out. Shooting translates. Danny has drafted a bunch of non shooters.

Great, you're waving a flag for management. Whoa! And maybe you have some valid points. But - maybe those who think management is not doing a great job have valid points also.

How do you contribute to the great Bostonian tradition of conversation and discourse by calling those who hold a different opinion "ignorant," or "mean." That's teenager talk. Don't strike out at other people merely because you disagree. Be willing to listen.

I'm all for being convinced that this team will be great next year. Explain to me why Smart will develop next year. Tell me how Brown is NBA ready. Point out how a pure shooter like Hield at 3 will prove unnecessary. But don't call me childish names because you have a different opinion.

Not only does it cause me to lose respect for you - it leads me to wonder whether all those who support management have a similarly limited capacity to reason as to leave nothing but resort to insults. In simple terms: your ad hominem attacks dishonor both yourself, and your arguments.

TP. Excellent post.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: some days i wonder if fans are just ignorant or mean
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2016, 02:50:48 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Boston has a great tradition of discourse and honesty. William James once called it the "conversation capital of America." Look: "fireworks" were promised. And none were delivered. Brown is consistent with the type of player Danny has been drafting for years - the great majority of whom haven't panned out. Shooting translates. Danny has drafted a bunch of non shooters.

Great, you're waving a flag for management. Whoa! And maybe you have some valid points. But - maybe those who think management is not doing a great job have valid points also.

How do you contribute to the great Bostonian tradition of conversation and discourse by calling those who hold a different opinion "ignorant," or "mean." That's teenager talk. Don't strike out at other people merely because you disagree. Be willing to listen.

I'm all for being convinced that this team will be great next year. Explain to me why Smart will develop next year. Tell me how Brown is NBA ready. Point out how a pure shooter like Hield at 3 will prove unnecessary. But don't call me childish names because you have a different opinion.

Not only does it cause me to lose respect for you - it leads me to wonder whether all those who support management have a similarly limited capacity to reason as to leave nothing but resort to insults. In simple terms: your ad hominem attacks dishonor both yourself, and your arguments.
really?
 I mean the Celtics are in a great position. The Nets trade was a bona fide robbery. The Jae Crowder Isaiah Thomas and Avery Bradley contracts are all golden and signing and then extending Brad Stevens was brilliant. Furthermore, this is a rebuilding team that won 48 games last year then added a top 3 pick, had up to 50 mil in cap space and even if we strike out on that we were i believe the 4th youngest(number could be completely wrong Im more or less pulling it out my ass) team in the league last year and then we add what projects to be another top 10 pick in a loaded draft next year.

This is also the same management team that turned all Jefferson a number 5 pick and a ton of trash into KG and Ray Allen and won a championship.

Lets not act like those who "support management" are supporting Billy King. Also what does that even mean. Am I supporting management because I trust Ainge to make good trades and I trust that had there been a good trade available  he would have made it? that seems logical. Am I supporting management when I am OK with the Brown pick because I did not think there was a clear cut BPA? Am I supporting the management when I liked the Rozier pick because the only guys who I felt might have been BPA were Bobby POrtis and RHJ and Portis I felt had a low ceiling?
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: some days i wonder if fans are just ignorant or mean
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2016, 02:55:33 PM »

Offline knuckleballer

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I am sorry you missed Kevin Garnett as a rookie, Rollie.

Or Pippen.

Or Bill Russell.

Or Gary Payton

Or Fat Lever

Or Clyde Frazier

Or Jerry Sloan

Or Joe Dumars

Or Hondo ...

I'm getting tired here.

My point: Smart is FAR from the best rookie defender I've ever seen.

But I'll grant you this: Smart can out-flop any of them.
maybe i should have said celtics rookie,i had to look up some of the players stats -i started with walt frazier and promptly admitted to myself that i was swayed by only what i was seeing through my celtics glasses--maybe because it was eras of handchecks and so long ago and i was only thinking guards-maybe i heard this from mike gorman,  forget tommy-so i defer to your superior grasp of history-point taken
TP


Rollie, you're the best thing that ever happened to this blog


Awesome insight, and the willingness to admit when you're wrong


Celticsblog would be a better place if there were more rollies

I second that.  Rollie knows the game better than maybe any other poster here.  I love reading his posts.

Re: some days i wonder if fans are just ignorant or mean
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2016, 03:02:33 PM »

Offline jaketwice

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Boston has a great tradition of discourse and honesty. William James once called it the "conversation capital of America." Look: "fireworks" were promised. And none were delivered. Brown is consistent with the type of player Danny has been drafting for years - the great majority of whom haven't panned out. Shooting translates. Danny has drafted a bunch of non shooters.

Great, you're waving a flag for management. Whoa! And maybe you have some valid points. But - maybe those who think management is not doing a great job have valid points also.

How do you contribute to the great Bostonian tradition of conversation and discourse by calling those who hold a different opinion "ignorant," or "mean." That's teenager talk. Don't strike out at other people merely because you disagree. Be willing to listen.

I'm all for being convinced that this team will be great next year. Explain to me why Smart will develop next year. Tell me how Brown is NBA ready. Point out how a pure shooter like Hield at 3 will prove unnecessary. But don't call me childish names because you have a different opinion.

Not only does it cause me to lose respect for you - it leads me to wonder whether all those who support management have a similarly limited capacity to reason as to leave nothing but resort to insults. In simple terms: your ad hominem attacks dishonor both yourself, and your arguments.
really?
 I mean the Celtics are in a great position. The Nets trade was a bona fide robbery. The Jae Crowder Isaiah Thomas and Avery Bradley contracts are all golden and signing and then extending Brad Stevens was brilliant. Furthermore, this is a rebuilding team that won 48 games last year then added a top 3 pick, had up to 50 mil in cap space and even if we strike out on that we were i believe the 4th youngest(number could be completely wrong Im more or less pulling it out my ass) team in the league last year and then we add what projects to be another top 10 pick in a loaded draft next year.

This is also the same management team that turned all Jefferson a number 5 pick and a ton of trash into KG and Ray Allen and won a championship.

Lets not act like those who "support management" are supporting Billy King. Also what does that even mean. Am I supporting management because I trust Ainge to make good trades and I trust that had there been a good trade available  he would have made it? that seems logical. Am I supporting management when I am OK with the Brown pick because I did not think there was a clear cut BPA? Am I supporting the management when I liked the Rozier pick because the only guys who I felt might have been BPA were Bobby POrtis and RHJ and Portis I felt had a low ceiling?

This argument was directed at the original poster. I think to the extent he called those who disagreed with him "ignorant or mean," he was a discredit to those who support management. You ought to have words with him.

You bring up some worthwhile points about being a "young team." Likewise, your points about trusting Ainge to make a good trade is well taken. I would have preferred either the Okafor or Noel trade. Or I would have preferred he drafted Buddy Hield. ...we lacked shooting and leadership last year. I'm disappointed in Smart's decision-making, and I think the lack of spacing on offence is doing damage. Watching the Atlanta series, our team looked clumped up in the paint, while Atlanta was beautifully inside and outside. Who's right? I don't know. I see your point, but I think I have good points also.

Surely you can see how one could have some legitimate criticisms of Ainge, just as I can see how one could argue he is doing a good job.

Re: some days i wonder if fans are just ignorant or mean
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2016, 03:05:23 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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I am sorry you missed Kevin Garnett as a rookie, Rollie.

Or Pippen.

Or Bill Russell.

Or Gary Payton

Or Fat Lever

Or Clyde Frazier

Or Jerry Sloan

Or Joe Dumars

Or Hondo ...

I'm getting tired here.

My point: Smart is FAR from the best rookie defender I've ever seen.

But I'll grant you this: Smart can out-flop any of them.

I saw Garnett, Pippen, Payton, Lever, and Dumars in their rookie years.  The rest are before my time.

And, I'll absolutely put rookie Marcus Smart up against the first year version of any of the above guys as a defender.

I wouldn't put his defensive game up against any of them, quite frankly.

And most were superior offensive players to Smart.

I am not prepared to call him a flop, at all, but the hyperbole surrounding him on this board is entertaining, to say the least. He's just another role player on a team of IT and a bunch of role players, and I'd certainly include him in any deal to increase this team's shooting.

Seriously.  People say he's good overall, but he doesn't come close to those HOFers.  How can anyone defend a player in their second season that doesn't look like a sure-fire HOFer?  Clearly those people are mentally challenged and/or just want playoff appearances, not championships
I'm bitter.

Re: some days i wonder if fans are just ignorant or mean
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2016, 03:07:02 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Well first of all "questioning" one's fanhood isn't allowed on CBlog, so I'm glad we haven't had that in this thread as the title seems to be a powder keg.

I do wish we hadn't had people immediately respond with sarcasm and a mocking tone though, but given the title I think it was setup for this.

I am going to keep an I on this thread for a quick lock if needed.

Re: some days i wonder if fans are just ignorant or mean
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2016, 03:10:33 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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Boston has a great tradition of discourse and honesty. William James once called it the "conversation capital of America." Look: "fireworks" were promised. And none were delivered. Brown is consistent with the type of player Danny has been drafting for years - the great majority of whom haven't panned out. Shooting translates. Danny has drafted a bunch of non shooters.

Great, you're waving a flag for management. Whoa! And maybe you have some valid points. But - maybe those who think management is not doing a great job have valid points also.

How do you contribute to the great Bostonian tradition of conversation and discourse by calling those who hold a different opinion "ignorant," or "mean." That's teenager talk. Don't strike out at other people merely because you disagree. Be willing to listen.

I'm all for being convinced that this team will be great next year. Explain to me why Smart will develop next year. Tell me how Brown is NBA ready. Point out how a pure shooter like Hield at 3 will prove unnecessary. But don't call me childish names because you have a different opinion.

Not only does it cause me to lose respect for you - it leads me to wonder whether all those who support management have a similarly limited capacity to reason as to leave nothing but resort to insults. In simple terms: your ad hominem attacks dishonor both yourself, and your arguments.
really?
 I mean the Celtics are in a great position. The Nets trade was a bona fide robbery. The Jae Crowder Isaiah Thomas and Avery Bradley contracts are all golden and signing and then extending Brad Stevens was brilliant. Furthermore, this is a rebuilding team that won 48 games last year then added a top 3 pick, had up to 50 mil in cap space and even if we strike out on that we were i believe the 4th youngest(number could be completely wrong Im more or less pulling it out my ass) team in the league last year and then we add what projects to be another top 10 pick in a loaded draft next year.

This is also the same management team that turned all Jefferson a number 5 pick and a ton of trash into KG and Ray Allen and won a championship.

Lets not act like those who "support management" are supporting Billy King. Also what does that even mean. Am I supporting management because I trust Ainge to make good trades and I trust that had there been a good trade available  he would have made it? that seems logical. Am I supporting management when I am OK with the Brown pick because I did not think there was a clear cut BPA? Am I supporting the management when I liked the Rozier pick because the only guys who I felt might have been BPA were Bobby POrtis and RHJ and Portis I felt had a low ceiling?

This argument was directed at the original poster. I think to the extent he called those who disagreed with him "ignorant or mean," he was a discredit to those who support management. You ought to have words with him.

You bring up some worthwhile points about being a "young team." Likewise, your points about trusting Ainge to make a good trade is well taken. I would have preferred either the Okafor or Noel trade. Or I would have preferred he drafted Buddy Hield. ...we lacked shooting and leadership last year. I'm disappointed in Smart's decision-making, and I think the lack of spacing on offence is doing damage. Watching the Atlanta series, our team looked clumped up in the paint, while Atlanta was beautifully inside and outside. Who's right? I don't know. I see your point, but I think I have good points also.

Surely you can see how one could have some legitimate criticisms of Ainge, just as I can see how one could argue he is doing a good job.

I don't think Rollie is saying that people are ignorant or mean because they are criticizing Ainge, I think it's more about the attitudes some posters (some of whom happen to be criticizing Ainge, and some who happen to be supporting him) have had since the draft.  There are plenty of people who have argued for/against Ainge reasonably, but there are some that have been borderline toxic.  As the dust settles, it seems to have died down a bit, but it was pretty dicey for a couple of days
I'm bitter.