What are the flaws on Brown really?

[footey]

Except that he just has to develop? Intelligent kid.  Not arrogant.  Shot well in his workout. His shot is not broken.  It just has to develop.   People see these things as a negative.   People say he can't handle the ball.  Yes he can I've seen him do it.  He can shoot too. He can also jump out of the gym and make tough shots and practices them. He's closer to a guy like Kobe than anything else. I don't know if he has that upside but he really is.

He's 19 years old. The things people are knocking him on are very different than other players who have real flaws in their game.

"Shot is not broken" doesn't mean much -- it's whether or not you can make it in a game. Gerald Green's shot took 8 years to "develop". People right now assume that if you're smart and work hard, results will come. That's not a given. He'll probably be fine, but the question marks are legitimate.

Green always shot well. Took 8 years to learn how to play defense!!

[Boris Badenov]

here is something interesting about brown's shooting. it is a shot-chart for him. it is on a SoSH page, scroll down to poster "wade bogg's chicken dinner" and click on the spoiler.

3 point shot vary wildly. but from the left corner he shot 35% and from straight above the key he shot 41%. yet from the right corner he shot 8%. go figure.

indeed, from the right side of the half court, brown simply sucks at shooting. from from the LEFT side of the half court he is credible to good.

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/celtics-1st-round-selection-3rd-overall-jaylen-brown.14666/page-2

Nice find. TP.

I find this more encouraging than him being mediocre from everywhere.

[Dino Pitino]

here is something interesting about brown's shooting. it is a shot-chart for him. it is on a SoSH page, scroll down to poster "wade bogg's chicken dinner" and click on the spoiler.

3 point shot vary wildly. but from the left corner he shot 35% and from straight above the key he shot 41%. yet from the right corner he shot 8%. go figure.

indeed, from the right side of the half court, brown simply sucks at shooting. from from the LEFT side of the half court he is credible to good.

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/celtics-1st-round-selection-3rd-overall-jaylen-brown.14666/page-2

Fascinating.

I wonder if something about his shooting form is better or more consistent when he's lining up from the left side. That 41% from the top of the key is promising. Proves he's got it in him to hit threes at a good rate everywhere, eventually. It's the spot that players have practiced threes from the most in their lives, so it stands to reason that he'll benefit immensely from the exponential increase in volume of practice shots he'll get elsewhere around the arc as a pro.

[hwangjini_1]

here is something interesting about brown's shooting. it is a shot-chart for him. it is on a SoSH page, scroll down to poster "wade bogg's chicken dinner" and click on the spoiler.

3 point shot vary wildly. but from the left corner he shot 35% and from straight above the key he shot 41%. yet from the right corner he shot 8%. go figure.

indeed, from the right side of the half court, brown simply sucks at shooting. from from the LEFT side of the half court he is credible to good.

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/celtics-1st-round-selection-3rd-overall-jaylen-brown.14666/page-2

Fascinating.

I wonder if something about his shooting form is better or more consistent when he's lining up from the left side. That 41% from the top of the key is promising. Proves he's got it in him to hit threes at a good rate everywhere, eventually. It's the spot that players have practiced threes from the most in their lives, so it stands to reason that he'll benefit immensely from the exponential increase in volume of practice shots he'll get elsewhere around the arc as a pro.

thanks for the insight on practicing three point shots. i did not know that is the most common place. i know that jae crowder shoots well from there too.

[droopdog7]

He doesn't project to do anything at an NBA level when he enters the league other than finishing in transition.

He may be able to do other things, but there's no way of saying for sure what those things are.

Do not agree that all he can do is finish in transition.  Aside from many other things already mentioned, he is pretty much a savant and getting to the basket.  That may prove very valuable in today's nba.

[manl_lui]

mostly what DX said his weaknesses are and what most people are hating on Jaylen for

shooting, he shot well in practice and in our pre-draft workouts, but that needs to translate in a real game. I have confidence in him, idk why but somehow I see him developing a shot quicker than Smart. It's just a hunch.

Turnovers is another big one I heard, but i think that can also be fixed in the short term.

He has great work ethics and I think he can definitely work on his weaknesses

[Yoki_IsTheName]

He doesn't project to do anything at an NBA level when he enters the league other than finishing in transition.

He may be able to do other things, but there's no way of saying for sure what those things are.

Averaged 6 FT attempts per game at Cal.

That thing will translate to the NBA. If anything, he can get to the line and get easy points, or put the opposing team in foul trouble.

[Kuberski33]

Buddy Hield his freshman year shot 23.8% from 3 pt range. 

[Beat LA]

Your disbelief shows you either don't pay attention to Smart during games or you watch Smart play through poop-colored glasses.

Also, in regards to this thread, I don't think the right question is being asked.  It's painfully obvious that he has a multitude of flaws and is an athlete as opposed to a basketball player, so my question is what are his strengths, and I mean in terms of skills.  Seriously, what does he do well besides dunking? 

You're asking this about Brown? Seriously?

He's a poor decision maker, struggles to finish plays despite his athletic gifts, has minimal, at best, ballhandling skills, can't shoot, isn't that much of a rebounder, gets in foul trouble due to playing out of control, is a poor free throw shooter, and rarely uses his left hand.  Sounds like a great player (sarcasm) - where do I sign?

Wrong, wrong, completely wrong, wrong, wrong, right, semi-right but overstated, totally wrong in a way that only someone who hasn't even watched two minutes of YouTube remixes could be. Your shooting percentage on making good points is atrocious. Are you actually trying to be right? Or are you just being a grumpy contrarian for ****s and giggles?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBx6mAWYPU

Apparently you are, in fact, familiar with using YouTube? Okay, great. Go watch full game highlights of Brown at Cal this year. Take off your poop-colored glasses.

TP for the laugh, man, although I have to say that watching almost every game of Marcus Smart's career to date has turned my green goggles into poop-colored glasses, lol . #theflopper

As for Brown, these are not only my observations, despite the fact that what I've seen is mostly what you deem to be 'YouTube remixes' of various performances, as they have been outlined by many on this site who have seen much more of him than I, in addition to these concerns being expressed in scouting reports and the views of those whose job it is to scout these players.  It's fine if you disagree with these assertions, although I feel obligated to point out that your 'right/wrong' assessment of my observations, or as you said, 'my shooting percentage on making good points', roughly comes to 1/4 (I rounded the 'semi-right' up to 'right' for this advanced statistical breakdown (sarcasm) ), which, sadly, isn't too far from Smart's overall fg% after the all star break and roughly equal to his 3pt% from this past season, lol .  Is there a particular performance of Brown's that you wish me to watch?

And, yes, if researching this matter, ie. Brown, and drawing conclusions from that, as well as the opinions of many others on this site, somehow constitutes to my being a contrarian, to you, then yes, I'm a contrarian , lol .

[Ilikesports17]

Your disbelief shows you either don't pay attention to Smart during games or you watch Smart play through poop-colored glasses.

Also, in regards to this thread, I don't think the right question is being asked.  It's painfully obvious that he has a multitude of flaws and is an athlete as opposed to a basketball player, so my question is what are his strengths, and I mean in terms of skills.  Seriously, what does he do well besides dunking? 

You're asking this about Brown? Seriously?

He's a poor decision maker, struggles to finish plays despite his athletic gifts, has minimal, at best, ballhandling skills, can't shoot, isn't that much of a rebounder, gets in foul trouble due to playing out of control, is a poor free throw shooter, and rarely uses his left hand.  Sounds like a great player (sarcasm) - where do I sign?

Wrong, wrong, completely wrong, wrong, wrong, right, semi-right but overstated, totally wrong in a way that only someone who hasn't even watched two minutes of YouTube remixes could be. Your shooting percentage on making good points is atrocious. Are you actually trying to be right? Or are you just being a grumpy contrarian for ****s and giggles?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBx6mAWYPU

Apparently you are, in fact, familiar with using YouTube? Okay, great. Go watch full game highlights of Brown at Cal this year. Take off your poop-colored glasses.

TP for the laugh, man, although I have to say that watching almost every game of Marcus Smart's career to date has turned my green goggles into poop-colored glasses, lol . #theflopper

As for Brown, these are not only my observations, despite the fact that what I've seen is mostly what you deem to be 'YouTube remixes' of various performances, as they have been outlined by many on this site who have seen much more of him than I, in addition to these concerns being expressed in scouting reports and the views of those whose job it is to scout these players.  It's fine if you disagree with these assertions, although I feel obligated to point out that your 'right/wrong' assessment of my observations, or as you said, 'my shooting percentage on making good points', roughly comes to 1/4 (I rounded the 'semi-right' up to 'right' for this advanced statistical breakdown (sarcasm) ), which, sadly, isn't too far from Smart's overall fg% after the all star break and roughly equal to his 3pt% from this past season, lol .  Is there a particular performance of Brown's that you wish me to watch?

And, yes, if researching this matter, ie. Brown, and drawing conclusions from that, as well as the opinions of many others on this site, somehow constitutes to my being a contrarian, to you, then yes, I'm a contrarian , lol .

Demetrius Jackson is better than Isaiah Thomas-Actually Demetrius Jackson is better than all our gaurds put together
Lets trade Smart for 24 and 26
Malcom Brogdon should start for us
Delon Wright will be a stud
Markel Brown is as good as Avery Bradley

Beat LA is the mayor of piping hot take city.

tho to be fair, he throws all the ughs and sighs etc in i think to convey that he is not trying to have a serious conversation, more just have some fun talking about his favorite team and I can respect it.

[Beat LA]

Your disbelief shows you either don't pay attention to Smart during games or you watch Smart play through poop-colored glasses.

Also, in regards to this thread, I don't think the right question is being asked.  It's painfully obvious that he has a multitude of flaws and is an athlete as opposed to a basketball player, so my question is what are his strengths, and I mean in terms of skills.  Seriously, what does he do well besides dunking? 

You're asking this about Brown? Seriously?

He's a poor decision maker, struggles to finish plays despite his athletic gifts, has minimal, at best, ballhandling skills, can't shoot, isn't that much of a rebounder, gets in foul trouble due to playing out of control, is a poor free throw shooter, and rarely uses his left hand.  Sounds like a great player (sarcasm) - where do I sign?

Wrong, wrong, completely wrong, wrong, wrong, right, semi-right but overstated, totally wrong in a way that only someone who hasn't even watched two minutes of YouTube remixes could be. Your shooting percentage on making good points is atrocious. Are you actually trying to be right? Or are you just being a grumpy contrarian for ****s and giggles?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBx6mAWYPU

Apparently you are, in fact, familiar with using YouTube? Okay, great. Go watch full game highlights of Brown at Cal this year. Take off your poop-colored glasses.

TP for the laugh, man, although I have to say that watching almost every game of Marcus Smart's career to date has turned my green goggles into poop-colored glasses, lol . #theflopper

As for Brown, these are not only my observations, despite the fact that what I've seen is mostly what you deem to be 'YouTube remixes' of various performances, as they have been outlined by many on this site who have seen much more of him than I, in addition to these concerns being expressed in scouting reports and the views of those whose job it is to scout these players.  It's fine if you disagree with these assertions, although I feel obligated to point out that your 'right/wrong' assessment of my observations, or as you said, 'my shooting percentage on making good points', roughly comes to 1/4 (I rounded the 'semi-right' up to 'right' for this advanced statistical breakdown (sarcasm) ), which, sadly, isn't too far from Smart's overall fg% after the all star break and roughly equal to his 3pt% from this past season, lol .  Is there a particular performance of Brown's that you wish me to watch?

And, yes, if researching this matter, ie. Brown, and drawing conclusions from that, as well as the opinions of many others on this site, somehow constitutes to my being a contrarian, to you, then yes, I'm a contrarian , lol .

Demetrius Jackson is better than Isaiah Thomas-Actually Demetrius Jackson is better than all our gaurds put together
Lets trade Smart for 24 and 26
Malcom Brogdon should start for us
Delon Wright will be a stud
Markel Brown is as good as Avery Bradley

Beat LA is the mayor of piping hot take city.

tho to be fair, he throws all the ughs and sighs etc in i think to convey that he is not trying to have a serious conversation, more just have some fun talking about his favorite team and I can respect it.

Delon Wright is actually very talented, although I'm sure that I ever said that he will be a stud, nor did I ever say that Markel Brown is as good as Avery Bradley, and yes, I believe that Jackson is more than the sum of the best traits of all of our POINT GUARDS - not just guards.  Geesh.  And in the scenario that I mentioned regarding our possible starting lineup comprised of draft picks from this past Thursday - meaning not including Bradley or Crowder - yes, I think Brogdon would be a great fit in the first five.

I enjoy serious discussion about the Celtics, as those ideas were, btw, but I also try to have some fun on here in the process, although that shouldn't take away from what I've posted as I'm simply using emojis and other words to convey emotion so as to eliminate any possible confusion, but whatever.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

He doesn't project to do anything at an NBA level when he enters the league other than finishing in transition.

He may be able to do other things, but there's no way of saying for sure what those things are.

Alright, I'll bite.

The dirty little secret is that Brown was better at finishing at the rim than Simmons in college. Simmons had 82 unassisted makes at the rim. Brown had 71. But on those shots, Simmons, with all his athleticism, only converted 54% of the time, while Brown converted 62% of the time. And that was with Cal's clogged floors. LSU's were more open. Simmons had an unreal 77% free throw rate (ft/fg), but Brown was impressive in his own right at 58%. For reference, Justise Winslow had a 44% free throw rate. 

All while Cal played at a paltry rating of 68 for pace, while LSU had 73. This shows that Simmons had more open court opportunities than Brown did.

Brown actually "projects" to be a better driver at the NBA level than Simmons.

Combine that with comfort and a developing consistency from the outside, and Brown might be a better scorer than Simmons at the NBA level.

It's not like Brown is a slouch at passing either (2 apg). Simmons is clearly superior in that regard, but Brown is not going to be a score-only guy. He has high IQ and good court vision. With an open court and better teammate shooting, it's not hard to "project" Brown as a good passer on the wing.

There is also reason to believe he "projects" to be a solid defender immediately. He had a 3.3 DBPM and also one of the highest defensive ratings on his team, meaning his team was significantly better defensively with him on the court. This shows that he knows how to help his team play good defense, and if you combine that with his elite athleticism, he "projects" to be a solid defender immediately.

Driving. Passing. Defense. He projects to do all at least above average level immediately in the NBA.

I wanted to bump my post to correct an error I made. In looking at Simmons stats, I accidentally looked at the wrong number when finding his shooting % at the rim. His actually shooting percentage at the rim was 75% not 54%, which obviously disagrees with my main point. 

I'm sorry for the mistake. Based on these things, Simmons appears to be the better driver.

I will add that of those shots at the rim, 48% of Simmons' were assisted (alleyoops, etc.), while only 28% of Brown's were assisted. Having someone else create for you obviously raises your shooting percentage.

I still love Brown's potential. I can't add anymore context to the stats at this point (on my way to work), but I'd like to dig into more of Simmons advanced stats to see what kind of offensive scorer he might be compared to Brown.

[Dino Pitino]

His shot looks about 85% cooked, needs more time to research and test better technique, which he will. He is essentially going to a top 3 graduate school in the nation for basketball. He'll improve, steadily, everything. Including his shot.

Singleminded determination is a massive strength in so many ways in his life, but when driving to the basket it can also be a flaw, perhaps minor, perhaps not. He'll relax and improvise more as he settles in.

Other than that, his only other significant flaw is that he's only 19 and compared to how much better he'll become in the future, he is relatively inexperienced. Only cure for that is minutes, games, shots, time.

[Ilikesports17]

He doesn't project to do anything at an NBA level when he enters the league other than finishing in transition.

He may be able to do other things, but there's no way of saying for sure what those things are.

Alright, I'll bite.

The dirty little secret is that Brown was better at finishing at the rim than Simmons in college. Simmons had 82 unassisted makes at the rim. Brown had 71. But on those shots, Simmons, with all his athleticism, only converted 54% of the time, while Brown converted 62% of the time. And that was with Cal's clogged floors. LSU's were more open. Simmons had an unreal 77% free throw rate (ft/fg), but Brown was impressive in his own right at 58%. For reference, Justise Winslow had a 44% free throw rate. 

All while Cal played at a paltry rating of 68 for pace, while LSU had 73. This shows that Simmons had more open court opportunities than Brown did.

Brown actually "projects" to be a better driver at the NBA level than Simmons.

Combine that with comfort and a developing consistency from the outside, and Brown might be a better scorer than Simmons at the NBA level.

It's not like Brown is a slouch at passing either (2 apg). Simmons is clearly superior in that regard, but Brown is not going to be a score-only guy. He has high IQ and good court vision. With an open court and better teammate shooting, it's not hard to "project" Brown as a good passer on the wing.

There is also reason to believe he "projects" to be a solid defender immediately. He had a 3.3 DBPM and also one of the highest defensive ratings on his team, meaning his team was significantly better defensively with him on the court. This shows that he knows how to help his team play good defense, and if you combine that with his elite athleticism, he "projects" to be a solid defender immediately.

Driving. Passing. Defense. He projects to do all at least above average level immediately in the NBA.

I wanted to bump my post to correct an error I made. In looking at Simmons stats, I accidentally looked at the wrong number when finding his shooting % at the rim. His actually shooting percentage at the rim was 75% not 54%, which obviously disagrees with my main point. 

I'm sorry for the mistake. Based on these things, Simmons appears to be the better driver.

I will add that of those shots at the rim, 48% of Simmons' were assisted (alleyoops, etc.), while only 28% of Brown's were assisted. Having someone else create for you obviously raises your shooting percentage.

I still love Brown's potential. I can't add anymore context to the stats at this point (on my way to work), but I'd like to dig into more of Simmons advanced stats to see what kind of offensive scorer he might be compared to Brown.

TP.

[Dino Pitino]

I will add that of those shots at the rim, 48% of Simmons' were assisted (alleyoops, etc.), while only 28% of Brown's were assisted. Having someone else create for you obviously raises your shooting percentage.

Simmons's close scores were unassisted half the time, Brown's were unassisted over two-thirds of the time? That's big difference, isn't it? Does Synergy have their close FG% further parsed into % when assisted versus unassisted?