Author Topic: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?  (Read 16993 times)

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Re: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?
« Reply #90 on: June 27, 2016, 05:44:49 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Guys who are great offensive players, but struggle defensively are still considered star players.

Why isn't the reverse true?
Because offense is more important; plain and simple.

Marcus can be a great defender and yet have a minimal impact on any given game, especially when facing a mediocre offensive player.  A great offensive player, on the other hand can have an impact on every play of every game when they're on the floor (even if they don't score).

Re: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?
« Reply #91 on: June 27, 2016, 05:56:54 PM »

Offline rollie mass

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i believe marcus was terribly hampered in his rookie season with first step and elevating
-along with revolving door of players
-look how a slight high ankle sprain hindered and effected chrowders shot
-then you had 2nd season two dislocated fingers  not good for your shooting touch and then a dislocated knee how about that altering stats
-its not just time off but recovery time on the court
-a severe high ankle sprain,dislocated fingers and knee those are serious injurys for a rookie and 2nd year player
-even averys jumper betrays him after playing tough d all game -and marcus when chrowder went out had a run og great quards and even durant-hardi,derozan lliiard,westbrook,chris paul rose-
marcus gets all the clock running down shots that kelly or jerebko don't take-
no wonder his three point shooting suffered-
stat wise we have not seen marcus--but the playoffs did

I have, and always will, greatly value your insight, rollie, but I must ask why you keep sticking to these points and making all of these excuses for the guy.  I understand that he's had some bad injuries over the course of his short career, some of which came as a result of not having his ankles taped during his rookie year, iirc, as well as his shall we say 'style of play' ;D, but it's not like he was ever a good offensive player to begin with with any kind of explosiveness that could help him get to the basket, and this goes back to his college, and probably high school, days, as well.  He was never a high percentage shooter, he always had terrible shot selection, he never had more than average ball handling skills, his decision making was, at best, questionable, and he developed a reputation for baiting the officials into calling fouls by flopping, so, looking back, it's not really a surprise to me that he's struggled so mightily, offensively, even when he hasn't been injured, in the NBA.  He's like the Charles Oakley of point guards, in terms of offense, imo, a guy who beats the crap out of the opposition, blatantly flops, and gets frustrated because he doesn't have the ability to finish inside despite his size.  I'd also argue that one of the reasons why he shoots so many 3s despite his poor percentages, going back to college, is because he doesn't know what his strengths, are, offensively, and after two years of watching nearly every game of his, I seriously wonder if he has any.  I'll give you that he had some great moments in the playoffs, mostly coming at home, but have you forgotten his 1-11 performance in game 2 of the series against the Hawks when he was inserted into the starting lineup due to Bradley's injury?  I don't know, maybe it's me, but I just don't think he has the skills that would lend me to believe that he's capable of being anything more than what he is right now, and for a 6th pick in the draft, that's pretty disturbing, imo.
i don't know how good marcus can get but i stick to the belief that his rookie year was stunted by injuries and a revoving door of players-with his inability to get lift and slowed his first step-marcus shot threes and 34% isn't bad for a rookie last season the injuries were both vicious and his 3point shooting was effected and his recovery time on courts made stats meaningless
how can people claim he is a poor three point shooter after shooting 34% his rookie year-his shot selection may be suspect  but how many times have i seen him bailout others when clocks winding down
-a bust is anthony bennett not an intregal part of a defencive team that has outperformed
-have you ever played physical defence against ,hardin,westbrook,lliard,rose,george,derozan,durant fighting over the top of multiple screens-sometimes that aggression just takes over,judgement gets blurred-i cut marcus slack because he hasn't had it easy with his injuries -it is as simple as that-calling him a bust you can save for anthony bennet and if james young doesn't start hitting threes and playing some form of passable d-

Re: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?
« Reply #92 on: June 27, 2016, 06:03:49 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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I'm fine with whatever, as long as the role is tailored to his abilities rather than potential expectations.
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Re: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?
« Reply #93 on: June 27, 2016, 06:23:29 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Statistically his progress will have a lot to do with his role. If Turner isn't retained I expect smarts minutes to increase above 30mpg and he and Rozier will be given more primary ball handler duties. In that role I predict a playoff like 32mjn 12pt 4.5rb 4ast per game season.
That is absolutely pathetic for the 6th overall pick, but I suppose it's what we have come to expect from him. Oh yeah. And he plays great defense. Whoop...de....doooooooooo.

Oh yeah, he's completely dominant in a whole half of the game. Whoop de doooo?

Smart had been a positive contributor for us since the moment he stepped on in Celtic green. He'll continue doing that no matter what.

I know defense isn't sexy, but you can't brush it off. If Smart becomes A decent player on offense (certainly possible, maybe even likely), he'll be a HUGE asset. Kid has DPOY potential.

Not exactly something to sneeze at.

Given the little he's shown, offensively, despite two years of receiving plenty of minutes, I wouldn't count on it, and, unfortunately, history tells us that we should probably stop holding out for him to suddenly become even an average scorer.  As a senior in high school, he averaged 15.1 points :o 9.2 rebounds, and 5 assists, and was ranked as the number 1 shooting guard and 10th best player overall in his class.  15.1 points!?  And he was a top ten player, nationally?  The shooting guards that year most have really sucked, lol ;D.

Basketball isn't just about scoring points and counting stats B.LA. Much as you'd like to think so.

Your the guy who was saying "Let's trade Smart to Philly for two late 1sts!", so I'm not gonna pretend like you haven't already come to your own conclusions but c'mon man.

At the VERY least, Smart will be a Tony Allen like player. Superb defensively, and majorly limited offensively. But a DPOY candidate none the less. Let's remember that during our championship runs and in Memphis' playoff runs, Tony Allen was considered as valuable as anyone becAuse of his insane defensive ability. Smart has that gene. Even if he's JUST that, he's a very valuable player.

You constantly seem to ignore the fact that Marcus has been contributing to success since the moment he came into the league. Did you watch the playoffs at all? Outside of IT, Marcus is the main reason we were in that series to begin with after we lost AB. This dude has such a strong motor he can guard PF's at 6'3.

The kid shot 34% from 3 on a lot of attempts his rookie year. Now, I'm not discounting last year stats, but let's not pretend like his shooting %'s last year is the only thing we have to go on.

Considering how much he contributes on the defensive side of things, if Smart can become TA with a better shot and ball-handling ability, that's a dang good player. Considering the improvements we saw last year in terms of driving/ball-handling, as well as passing and court vision, I expect he'll be more than that.

I could understand being a little disappointed with that considering he was the 6th overall pick, but knowing you, you'd rather we play that kid we just drAfted at the end of the 2nd round over Smart. Which makes ZERO sense in just about every way. At least Marcus had proved he can contribute to a winning team with or without breaking out offensively.

I'm well aware of that, and that's not how I view the game, at all.  Hustle and effort matter - always have and always will - but for some reason that seems to be more important than having actual skills, nowadays.  I recently watched some clips on csnne after the draft, and Scal said that all you have to do to play for Stevens is defend your position, get out in the open floor, try to run off of Avery Bradley's and Marcus Smart's steals, and finish in transition.  Umm, that's it?  You don't have to be able to shoot, pass, dribble, move without the ball, post up, run off picks, etc.?  If that's the case, then anyone on this site can play in the NBA.  That's why we can't score in the halfcourt, because guys like Smart just flat out don't know how to play - they're all will and no skill.

As for Tony Allen, I hated that guy and was ecstatic when he left.  As much as he helped defensively, he gave almost all of it back on offense because the guy is a bonehead who plays completely out of control, can barely dribble, and is a horrible decision maker.  There was a reason why many on here called him 'Tony the Turnover' ::), and if that's all that Smart is, then that is an absolute failure for a 6th pick, imo.  You can find guys like that all the time as undrafted free agents or second round picks almost every year, so it's not like Smart is a one of a kind player, unless you count his propensity for flopping ::).  As an example, you only need to look back at last year's draft to find two better players than Smart in the second round in Josh Richardson and Norman Powell.  Not only are they better athletes, but they have brains and actually know how to play.  Richardson, for example, at 6'6 200 lbs is so quick, athletic, and tenacious that he is often tasked with guarding the opponents' point guards, and he does an incredible job.  Isaiah and Lowry, for example, couldn't score against the guy, but then on offense, but Powell and Richardson can not only shoot, but can also get to the basket, and they don't have Smart's horrible shot selection.  Coming into the league, for example, Richardson was known to have a great midrange game and the ability to create his own shot, in addition to his defense and passing skills.  The difference between guys like Powell and Richardson, as opposed to Smart, is that those guys are two way players, whereas Smart is simply a defender.  Who would you rather have?

Finally, I realize that I am ridiculous most of, if not all of, the time ;D, but Demetrius Jackson is no ordinary 45th pick.  Have a look at the highlights of his 24 point 4 assist performance at Duke.  Not only is he the far superior athlete to Smart, but Marcus can only dream of being able to shoot, pass, handle, and create his own shot like Jackson can, and he has a far better chance of being an all star than either Smart or Rozier, and yes, I would start him over IT, because he's a better defender, ball handler, passer, and shooter (both on and off the ball) than all of our point guards put together.  That is a two way player, not Smart, IT, nor Rozier, but you don't have to take my word for it ;) ;D.  Watch footage of Jackson on YouTube and then try and tell me that you don't think he's better than Smart.  I'd also like to point out that guys like Jackson, Dunn, and Gary Payton II have far more potential than Smart, and it's not because of their athleticism, quickness, and other physical gifts - it's because of their skills, and we could have had them all on Thursday.  Ugh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmdXw7OJjZs   

Speaking of two way players, I'd rather have Malcolm Brogdon than Marcus Smart.

Lol you really just said to watch YouTube clips to see how much better Demetrius Jackson is than Marcus Smart? I will no longer respect your POV sir.

Well you should. B.LA knows basketball. He just has a kind of out there, IMO, outlook. Always looking for the next big steal in the draft. That said..

BLA, did you REALLY just say that a rookie picked in the middle of the second round a week ago should start over our All-Star PG who's just coming off an over 20 PT, 6 Ast season that saw him lead the fifth youngest team in the league to the 3rd best record in the East and a shade under 50 wins?

Jackson is a better ball handler, passer, and shooter than Isaiah, and a better defender than Smart or Bradley. Right. So this dude we picked up is gonna be a top 20 player in the league then? If you had a player who could do all those things better than those guys, he'd have to be, right? Better start buying jerseys.

I wouldn't count on it. Just like I wouldn't count on Malcom Brogden or Norman Powell becoming better players than Marcus Smart, a guy who's played big minutes on a legit playoff team and has already received All-NBA defensive team consideration.--

I know it's just a matter of time before Markel Brown and KJ McDaniels break out. You used to say how great those guys were gonna be.

I do?  Thanks, lol, and you liked KJ McDaniels, too, man - it wasn't just me ;D.

And yes, I do think that Jackson should start, even though I'm crazy and realize that he won't get any playing time this year :'(, lol ;D. I also didn't say that he was a better defender than Smart or Bradley, what I said was that he's arguably the best point guard on our team because he has many of the best strengths of guys like IT, Smart, and Bradley, all rolled into one, if that makes sense.  I'll tell you this much, if you put Jackson in the starting lineup, our defense, at least, and probably passing, as well, would be better, and teams wouldn't be able to abuse Jackson, defensively, as they do Thomas, imo, which means that Avery won't have to kill himself every night, haha ;D.

Btw, Markel Brown had a few good games this year, lol ;D, where he looked like a better ball handling and passing version of Bradley, imo.  They're more similar than you think.

As for Brogdon vs Smart, in addition to his superior shooting and passing skills, Brogdon moves really well off the ball and splits pick and rolls like Mark Price, as shown in the clip, below.  I don't think I've even seen IT do that :o.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOlTjxWT5Vg

I realize that Brogdon will be 24 in December, but he's a much better player with significantly more skills than Smart, imo :-\.

Re: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?
« Reply #94 on: June 27, 2016, 08:12:41 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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i believe marcus was terribly hampered in his rookie season with first step and elevating
-along with revolving door of players
-look how a slight high ankle sprain hindered and effected chrowders shot
-then you had 2nd season two dislocated fingers  not good for your shooting touch and then a dislocated knee how about that altering stats
-its not just time off but recovery time on the court
-a severe high ankle sprain,dislocated fingers and knee those are serious injurys for a rookie and 2nd year player
-even averys jumper betrays him after playing tough d all game -and marcus when chrowder went out had a run og great quards and even durant-hardi,derozan lliiard,westbrook,chris paul rose-
marcus gets all the clock running down shots that kelly or jerebko don't take-
no wonder his three point shooting suffered-
stat wise we have not seen marcus--but the playoffs did

I have, and always will, greatly value your insight, rollie, but I must ask why you keep sticking to these points and making all of these excuses for the guy.  I understand that he's had some bad injuries over the course of his short career, some of which came as a result of not having his ankles taped during his rookie year, iirc, as well as his shall we say 'style of play' ;D, but it's not like he was ever a good offensive player to begin with with any kind of explosiveness that could help him get to the basket, and this goes back to his college, and probably high school, days, as well.  He was never a high percentage shooter, he always had terrible shot selection, he never had more than average ball handling skills, his decision making was, at best, questionable, and he developed a reputation for baiting the officials into calling fouls by flopping, so, looking back, it's not really a surprise to me that he's struggled so mightily, offensively, even when he hasn't been injured, in the NBA.  He's like the Charles Oakley of point guards, in terms of offense, imo, a guy who beats the crap out of the opposition, blatantly flops, and gets frustrated because he doesn't have the ability to finish inside despite his size.  I'd also argue that one of the reasons why he shoots so many 3s despite his poor percentages, going back to college, is because he doesn't know what his strengths, are, offensively, and after two years of watching nearly every game of his, I seriously wonder if he has any.  I'll give you that he had some great moments in the playoffs, mostly coming at home, but have you forgotten his 1-11 performance in game 2 of the series against the Hawks when he was inserted into the starting lineup due to Bradley's injury?  I don't know, maybe it's me, but I just don't think he has the skills that would lend me to believe that he's capable of being anything more than what he is right now, and for a 6th pick in the draft, that's pretty disturbing, imo.
i don't know how good marcus can get but i stick to the belief that his rookie year was stunted by injuries and a revoving door of players-with his inability to get lift and slowed his first step-marcus shot threes and 34% isn't bad for a rookie last season the injuries were both vicious and his 3point shooting was effected and his recovery time on courts made stats meaningless
how can people claim he is a poor three point shooter after shooting 34% his rookie year-his shot selection may be suspect  but how many times have i seen him bailout others when clocks winding down
-a bust is anthony bennett not an intregal part of a defencive team that has outperformed
-have you ever played physical defence against ,hardin,westbrook,lliard,rose,george,derozan,durant fighting over the top of multiple screens-sometimes that aggression just takes over,judgement gets blurred-i cut marcus slack because he hasn't had it easy with his injuries -it is as simple as that-calling him a bust you can save for anthony bennet and if james young doesn't start hitting threes and playing some form of passable d-

Admittedly, I have not ;D, but while I understand that Smart was billed as a two way player extraordinaire coming out of school, iirc, my whole thing is that his offense has never been at a level where that makes any sense.  Look, I get it - being a two way player is exhausting.  They're difficult to find, and I'm not sure if they burn out quicker or not, although that would make sense, but if he is a two-way player, why does he struggle so much to score?  That's my thing. 

I wouldn't waste any of your time hoping for anything out of James Young, btw.  He just doesn't have the work ethic necessary to be successful in the NBA, and he can't even dribble ::). How do these guys even make it to the NBA - seriously. 

Re: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?
« Reply #95 on: June 27, 2016, 09:11:50 PM »

Offline Bostoncelticsforlife7

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Marcus is going to have a bunch of Folks opening mouth and inserting foot before it's all said and done..   He has things that you cant teach and the things he struggles with Many Many now great players have struggled with in their first 3-4 years in the League..
Takes time..
He has played in the playoffs every year of his NBA career.  Because of this everything he does is under a microscope.. But Despite that he continues to be a MAIN cog in the Reason why We win games.  You cant find that on a stat sheet..  They said when they drafted him that he was a winner and he has done nothing to disprove that.
In games he may miss a ton of 3's but If you truly watched every game, you will find that he always hit the 3ball when The team needed it most.. He is fearless and without question he Definitely has the Clutch gene..  He helps us in ways that you cant find in %'s or Pure Numbers.. 

You guys can keep your meaningless James Harden stats that = nothing.. Give me a player who actually affects winning.. Both sides of the Ball.

Some of you guys should watch more of the games and less of the box Scores.
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Warning: I am a Marucs Smart homer

Re: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?
« Reply #96 on: June 27, 2016, 09:38:35 PM »

Offline Sketch5

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i believe marcus was terribly hampered in his rookie season with first step and elevating
-along with revolving door of players
-look how a slight high ankle sprain hindered and effected chrowders shot
-then you had 2nd season two dislocated fingers  not good for your shooting touch and then a dislocated knee how about that altering stats
-its not just time off but recovery time on the court
-a severe high ankle sprain,dislocated fingers and knee those are serious injurys for a rookie and 2nd year player
-even averys jumper betrays him after playing tough d all game -and marcus when chrowder went out had a run og great quards and even durant-hardi,derozan lliiard,westbrook,chris paul rose-
marcus gets all the clock running down shots that kelly or jerebko don't take-
no wonder his three point shooting suffered-
stat wise we have not seen marcus--but the playoffs did

I have, and always will, greatly value your insight, rollie, but I must ask why you keep sticking to these points and making all of these excuses for the guy.  I understand that he's had some bad injuries over the course of his short career, some of which came as a result of not having his ankles taped during his rookie year, iirc, as well as his shall we say 'style of play' ;D, but it's not like he was ever a good offensive player to begin with with any kind of explosiveness that could help him get to the basket, and this goes back to his college, and probably high school, days, as well.  He was never a high percentage shooter, he always had terrible shot selection, he never had more than average ball handling skills, his decision making was, at best, questionable, and he developed a reputation for baiting the officials into calling fouls by flopping, so, looking back, it's not really a surprise to me that he's struggled so mightily, offensively, even when he hasn't been injured, in the NBA.  He's like the Charles Oakley of point guards, in terms of offense, imo, a guy who beats the crap out of the opposition, blatantly flops, and gets frustrated because he doesn't have the ability to finish inside despite his size.  I'd also argue that one of the reasons why he shoots so many 3s despite his poor percentages, going back to college, is because he doesn't know what his strengths, are, offensively, and after two years of watching nearly every game of his, I seriously wonder if he has any.  I'll give you that he had some great moments in the playoffs, mostly coming at home, but have you forgotten his 1-11 performance in game 2 of the series against the Hawks when he was inserted into the starting lineup due to Bradley's injury?  I don't know, maybe it's me, but I just don't think he has the skills that would lend me to believe that he's capable of being anything more than what he is right now, and for a 6th pick in the draft, that's pretty disturbing, imo.
i don't know how good marcus can get but i stick to the belief that his rookie year was stunted by injuries and a revoving door of players-with his inability to get lift and slowed his first step-marcus shot threes and 34% isn't bad for a rookie last season the injuries were both vicious and his 3point shooting was effected and his recovery time on courts made stats meaningless
how can people claim he is a poor three point shooter after shooting 34% his rookie year-his shot selection may be suspect  but how many times have i seen him bailout others when clocks winding down
-a bust is anthony bennett not an intregal part of a defencive team that has outperformed
-have you ever played physical defence against ,hardin,westbrook,lliard,rose,george,derozan,durant fighting over the top of multiple screens-sometimes that aggression just takes over,judgement gets blurred-i cut marcus slack because he hasn't had it easy with his injuries -it is as simple as that-calling him a bust you can save for anthony bennet and if james young doesn't start hitting threes and playing some form of passable d-

Admittedly, I have not ;D, but while I understand that Smart was billed as a two way player extraordinaire coming out of school, iirc, my whole thing is that his offense has never been at a level where that makes any sense.  Look, I get it - being a two way player is exhausting.  They're difficult to find, and I'm not sure if they burn out quicker or not, although that would make sense, but if he is a two-way player, why does he struggle so much to score?  That's my thing. 

I wouldn't waste any of your time hoping for anything out of James Young, btw.  He just doesn't have the work ethic necessary to be successful in the NBA, and he can't even dribble ::). How do these guys even make it to the NBA - seriously.

I don't think Smart was ever billed as a two way player. He was NBA ready on the D, but his shooting was poor, but could finish with contact because his body was NBA ready.

First year they gave him the Green light to shoot threes when ever. He needed to. Second year in SL was the best I've seen him play over all. He was hitting the outside shot, and taking it to the hoop. And finally we saw him do that in the second half of the season. He really showed up in the playoffs which is what impressed me. I don't think he'll ever be a lights out scorer, but a type of player every team would want because he does the little things well.

Now if we had gotten him at pick 20 or 30, people may be saying he was a steel, but he was pick 6 and he gets labeled as a bust. Me, I just see him as a player that can change how a game is going with his D, and I don't care what number he came in at, thats some one you want on a contending team.

Re: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?
« Reply #97 on: June 27, 2016, 10:21:31 PM »

Offline oldtype

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A huge leap is unlikely at this point but regardless I'm happy with what we have.


Great words from a great man

Re: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?
« Reply #98 on: June 27, 2016, 10:22:48 PM »

Offline wiley

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Even if his leaps are small he still has a chance to outpace Billups arc of improvement...

Re: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?
« Reply #99 on: June 27, 2016, 10:31:14 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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i believe marcus was terribly hampered in his rookie season with first step and elevating
-along with revolving door of players
-look how a slight high ankle sprain hindered and effected chrowders shot
-then you had 2nd season two dislocated fingers  not good for your shooting touch and then a dislocated knee how about that altering stats
-its not just time off but recovery time on the court
-a severe high ankle sprain,dislocated fingers and knee those are serious injurys for a rookie and 2nd year player
-even averys jumper betrays him after playing tough d all game -and marcus when chrowder went out had a run og great quards and even durant-hardi,derozan lliiard,westbrook,chris paul rose-
marcus gets all the clock running down shots that kelly or jerebko don't take-
no wonder his three point shooting suffered-
stat wise we have not seen marcus--but the playoffs did

I have, and always will, greatly value your insight, rollie, but I must ask why you keep sticking to these points and making all of these excuses for the guy.  I understand that he's had some bad injuries over the course of his short career, some of which came as a result of not having his ankles taped during his rookie year, iirc, as well as his shall we say 'style of play' ;D, but it's not like he was ever a good offensive player to begin with with any kind of explosiveness that could help him get to the basket, and this goes back to his college, and probably high school, days, as well.  He was never a high percentage shooter, he always had terrible shot selection, he never had more than average ball handling skills, his decision making was, at best, questionable, and he developed a reputation for baiting the officials into calling fouls by flopping, so, looking back, it's not really a surprise to me that he's struggled so mightily, offensively, even when he hasn't been injured, in the NBA.  He's like the Charles Oakley of point guards, in terms of offense, imo, a guy who beats the crap out of the opposition, blatantly flops, and gets frustrated because he doesn't have the ability to finish inside despite his size.  I'd also argue that one of the reasons why he shoots so many 3s despite his poor percentages, going back to college, is because he doesn't know what his strengths, are, offensively, and after two years of watching nearly every game of his, I seriously wonder if he has any.  I'll give you that he had some great moments in the playoffs, mostly coming at home, but have you forgotten his 1-11 performance in game 2 of the series against the Hawks when he was inserted into the starting lineup due to Bradley's injury?  I don't know, maybe it's me, but I just don't think he has the skills that would lend me to believe that he's capable of being anything more than what he is right now, and for a 6th pick in the draft, that's pretty disturbing, imo.
i don't know how good marcus can get but i stick to the belief that his rookie year was stunted by injuries and a revoving door of players-with his inability to get lift and slowed his first step-marcus shot threes and 34% isn't bad for a rookie last season the injuries were both vicious and his 3point shooting was effected and his recovery time on courts made stats meaningless
how can people claim he is a poor three point shooter after shooting 34% his rookie year-his shot selection may be suspect  but how many times have i seen him bailout others when clocks winding down
-a bust is anthony bennett not an intregal part of a defencive team that has outperformed
-have you ever played physical defence against ,hardin,westbrook,lliard,rose,george,derozan,durant fighting over the top of multiple screens-sometimes that aggression just takes over,judgement gets blurred-i cut marcus slack because he hasn't had it easy with his injuries -it is as simple as that-calling him a bust you can save for anthony bennet and if james young doesn't start hitting threes and playing some form of passable d-

Admittedly, I have not ;D, but while I understand that Smart was billed as a two way player extraordinaire coming out of school, iirc, my whole thing is that his offense has never been at a level where that makes any sense.  Look, I get it - being a two way player is exhausting.  They're difficult to find, and I'm not sure if they burn out quicker or not, although that would make sense, but if he is a two-way player, why does he struggle so much to score?  That's my thing. 

I wouldn't waste any of your time hoping for anything out of James Young, btw.  He just doesn't have the work ethic necessary to be successful in the NBA, and he can't even dribble ::). How do these guys even make it to the NBA - seriously.

I don't think Smart was ever billed as a two way player. He was NBA ready on the D, but his shooting was poor, but could finish with contact because his body was NBA ready.

First year they gave him the Green light to shoot threes when ever. He needed to. Second year in SL was the best I've seen him play over all. He was hitting the outside shot, and taking it to the hoop. And finally we saw him do that in the second half of the season. He really showed up in the playoffs which is what impressed me. I don't think he'll ever be a lights out scorer, but a type of player every team would want because he does the little things well.

Now if we had gotten him at pick 20 or 30, people may be saying he was a steel, but he was pick 6 and he gets labeled as a bust. Me, I just see him as a player that can change how a game is going with his D, and I don't care what number he came in at, thats some one you want on a contending team.

Honestly, given his already horrid shot selection when he was in college, giving him the freedom to become a 3 point gunner might have actually been the worst thing for his development.  Maybe if they had told him that he was only allowed to take midrange jumpers things might have turned out better, lol, but I doubt it.

Re: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?
« Reply #100 on: June 28, 2016, 02:55:52 AM »

Offline alldaboston

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I would hope a guy picked 6th overall could make his way into the starting rotation by year 3.

I don't think a lot of people realize why he was coming off the bench.

After Marcus came back from his injury, Brad himself said he didn't want to mess with the lineup. It was the case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Isaiah was starting and the team was doing well, so why risk it? And lots also seem to forget that Marcus was a starter in the playoffs in his rookie year. Not a lot of other rookies can say that.

Because he isn't an NBA caliber starter. Yes, we have a great back-court. He was terrible when thrust into the starting role because of injuries.

I would hope a guy picked 6th overall could make his way into the starting rotation by year 3.

Just curious...why does being picked #6 matter to you?

Because when you pick someone #6 overall they are expected to be a starter sooner, rather than later. Marcus was supposedly one of the most NBA ready prospects in his draft, yet he makes poor decisions on offense and makes Rajon Rondo look like Ray Allen when it comes to shooting.

Did you even read the part about how he started AS A ROOKIE in the NBA playoffs?
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?
« Reply #101 on: June 28, 2016, 04:26:24 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I would hope a guy picked 6th overall could make his way into the starting rotation by year 3.

I don't think a lot of people realize why he was coming off the bench.

After Marcus came back from his injury, Brad himself said he didn't want to mess with the lineup. It was the case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Isaiah was starting and the team was doing well, so why risk it? And lots also seem to forget that Marcus was a starter in the playoffs in his rookie year. Not a lot of other rookies can say that.

Because he isn't an NBA caliber starter. Yes, we have a great back-court. He was terrible when thrust into the starting role because of injuries.

I would hope a guy picked 6th overall could make his way into the starting rotation by year 3.

Just curious...why does being picked #6 matter to you?

Because when you pick someone #6 overall they are expected to be a starter sooner, rather than later. Marcus was supposedly one of the most NBA ready prospects in his draft, yet he makes poor decisions on offense and makes Rajon Rondo look like Ray Allen when it comes to shooting.

Did you even read the part about how he started AS A ROOKIE in the NBA playoffs?

The team was struggling this year when Smart was starting.  When injuries forced Thomas to take his place in the starting lineup, we starting rolling.

Since that time, Smart never got that starting role back and Boston finished tied for the #3 seed in the East.

Just sayin...

Re: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?
« Reply #102 on: June 28, 2016, 07:45:01 AM »

Offline The Oracle

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I would hope a guy picked 6th overall could make his way into the starting rotation by year 3.

I don't think a lot of people realize why he was coming off the bench.

After Marcus came back from his injury, Brad himself said he didn't want to mess with the lineup. It was the case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Isaiah was starting and the team was doing well, so why risk it? And lots also seem to forget that Marcus was a starter in the playoffs in his rookie year. Not a lot of other rookies can say that.

Because he isn't an NBA caliber starter. Yes, we have a great back-court. He was terrible when thrust into the starting role because of injuries.

I would hope a guy picked 6th overall could make his way into the starting rotation by year 3.

Just curious...why does being picked #6 matter to you?

Because when you pick someone #6 overall they are expected to be a starter sooner, rather than later. Marcus was supposedly one of the most NBA ready prospects in his draft, yet he makes poor decisions on offense and makes Rajon Rondo look like Ray Allen when it comes to shooting.

Did you even read the part about how he started AS A ROOKIE in the NBA playoffs?

The team was struggling this year when Smart was starting.  When injuries forced Thomas to take his place in the starting lineup, we starting rolling.

Since that time, Smart never got that starting role back and Boston finished tied for the #3 seed in the East.

Just sayin...
That is an incredibly simplistic view of what actually happened Crimson.

Re: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?
« Reply #103 on: June 28, 2016, 09:25:07 AM »

Offline loco_91

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Guys who are great offensive players, but struggle defensively are still considered star players.

Why isn't the reverse true?
Because offense is more important; plain and simple.

Marcus can be a great defender and yet have a minimal impact on any given game, especially when facing a mediocre offensive player.  A great offensive player, on the other hand can have an impact on every play of every game when they're on the floor (even if they don't score).

This is untrue. When you run the numbers, team defense is equally important to team success as team offense. What is true is that the best defensive guard in the league doesn't make as big an impact as the best offensive guard. That's because on offense, you can give the ball to Curry or whoever on every possession. But conversely, it also means that you can minimize the impact of Smart's bad offense by giving the ball to someone else.

Re: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?
« Reply #104 on: June 28, 2016, 10:41:26 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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Guys who are great offensive players, but struggle defensively are still considered star players.

Why isn't the reverse true?
Because offense is more important; plain and simple.

Marcus can be a great defender and yet have a minimal impact on any given game, especially when facing a mediocre offensive player.  A great offensive player, on the other hand can have an impact on every play of every game when they're on the floor (even if they don't score).

I disagree with this.  Even if a great defender like Marcus isn't matched up with a great offensive player on the other end in a given game, he can have a huge impact making plays off the ball, switching and helping on doubles and the like.

A very memorable example of his defensive usefulness came in (I believe it was game four) against the Hawks where he switched on to an extremely hot Paul Millsap--who was in a complete zone--and effectively shut him down.

This is a good example because it points to both his versatility and his penchant for rising to the challenge when the stakes are at their highest.

I also don't agree with the earlier claim that defense is easier to learn to become good at than offense.  Defense is a skill as well.  It's a skill that elite defensive players have been focusing on and honing since a young age.  Great NBA scorers can't necessarily turn into great defenders (or even serviceable ones) by just buckling down and focusing.  That's an insult to the art and skill involved in playing good basketball defense.
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson