Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?

[alldaboston]

I would hope a guy picked 6th overall could make his way into the starting rotation by year 3.

I don't think a lot of people realize why he was coming off the bench.

After Marcus came back from his injury, Brad himself said he didn't want to mess with the lineup. It was the case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Isaiah was starting and the team was doing well, so why risk it? And lots also seem to forget that Marcus was a starter in the playoffs in his rookie year. Not a lot of other rookies can say that.

[jpotter33]

I would hope a guy picked 6th overall could make his way into the starting rotation by year 3.

Context also matters. He's playing behind an All-Star and an All-Defensive 1st Team vet in the starting backcourt on a 48-win team that tied for the third best record in the East this year.

[budMovin]

I would hope a guy picked 6th overall could make his way into the starting rotation by year 3.

I don't think a lot of people realize why he was coming off the bench.

After Marcus came back from his injury, Brad himself said he didn't want to mess with the lineup. It was the case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Isaiah was starting and the team was doing well, so why risk it? And lots also seem to forget that Marcus was a starter in the playoffs in his rookie year. Not a lot of other rookies can say that.

Because he isn't an NBA caliber starter. Yes, we have a great back-court. He was terrible when thrust into the starting role because of injuries.

I would hope a guy picked 6th overall could make his way into the starting rotation by year 3.

Just curious...why does being picked #6 matter to you?

Because when you pick someone #6 overall they are expected to be a starter sooner, rather than later. Marcus was supposedly one of the most NBA ready prospects in his draft, yet he makes poor decisions on offense and makes Rajon Rondo look like Ray Allen when it comes to shooting.

[feckless]

The term "leap" is subjective so I hope I'm not setting myself up here.

But I do expect a lot of progress, especially if he is injury free and Turner does not come back.

The kid works at his game...no doubt about it.

Who says he works at his game?

[knuckleballer]

He's played 27 minutes per game his first two seasons.  Who cares if he's the starter.

[Beat LA]

Statistically his progress will have a lot to do with his role. If Turner isn't retained I expect smarts minutes to increase above 30mpg and he and Rozier will be given more primary ball handler duties. In that role I predict a playoff like 32mjn 12pt 4.5rb 4ast per game season.

That is absolutely pathetic for the 6th overall pick, but I suppose it's what we have come to expect from him. Oh yeah. And he plays great defense. Whoop...de....doooooooooo.

Oh yeah, he's completely dominant in a whole half of the game. Whoop de doooo?

Smart had been a positive contributor for us since the moment he stepped on in Celtic green. He'll continue doing that no matter what.

I know defense isn't sexy, but you can't brush it off. If Smart becomes A decent player on offense (certainly possible, maybe even likely), he'll be a HUGE asset. Kid has DPOY potential.

Not exactly something to sneeze at.

Given the little he's shown, offensively, despite two years of receiving plenty of minutes, I wouldn't count on it, and, unfortunately, history tells us that we should probably stop holding out for him to suddenly become even an average scorer.  As a senior in high school, he averaged 15.1 points 9.2 rebounds, and 5 assists, and was ranked as the number 1 shooting guard and 10th best player overall in his class.  15.1 points!?  And he was a top ten player, nationally?  The shooting guards that year most have really sucked, lol .

Basketball isn't just about scoring points and counting stats B.LA. Much as you'd like to think so.

Your the guy who was saying "Let's trade Smart to Philly for two late 1sts!", so I'm not gonna pretend like you haven't already come to your own conclusions but c'mon man.

At the VERY least, Smart will be a Tony Allen like player. Superb defensively, and majorly limited offensively. But a DPOY candidate none the less. Let's remember that during our championship runs and in Memphis' playoff runs, Tony Allen was considered as valuable as anyone becAuse of his insane defensive ability. Smart has that gene. Even if he's JUST that, he's a very valuable player.

You constantly seem to ignore the fact that Marcus has been contributing to success since the moment he came into the league. Did you watch the playoffs at all? Outside of IT, Marcus is the main reason we were in that series to begin with after we lost AB. This dude has such a strong motor he can guard PF's at 6'3.

The kid shot 34% from 3 on a lot of attempts his rookie year. Now, I'm not discounting last year stats, but let's not pretend like his shooting %'s last year is the only thing we have to go on.

Considering how much he contributes on the defensive side of things, if Smart can become TA with a better shot and ball-handling ability, that's a dang good player. Considering the improvements we saw last year in terms of driving/ball-handling, as well as passing and court vision, I expect he'll be more than that.

I could understand being a little disappointed with that considering he was the 6th overall pick, but knowing you, you'd rather we play that kid we just drAfted at the end of the 2nd round over Smart. Which makes ZERO sense in just about every way. At least Marcus had proved he can contribute to a winning team with or without breaking out offensively.

I'm well aware of that, and that's not how I view the game, at all.  Hustle and effort matter - always have and always will - but for some reason that seems to be more important than having actual skills, nowadays.  I recently watched some clips on csnne after the draft, and Scal said that all you have to do to play for Stevens is defend your position, get out in the open floor, try to run off of Avery Bradley's and Marcus Smart's steals, and finish in transition.  Umm, that's it?  You don't have to be able to shoot, pass, dribble, move without the ball, post up, run off picks, etc.?  If that's the case, then anyone on this site can play in the NBA.  That's why we can't score in the halfcourt, because guys like Smart just flat out don't know how to play - they're all will and no skill.

As for Tony Allen, I hated that guy and was ecstatic when he left.  As much as he helped defensively, he gave almost all of it back on offense because the guy is a bonehead who plays completely out of control, can barely dribble, and is a horrible decision maker.  There was a reason why many on here called him 'Tony the Turnover' , and if that's all that Smart is, then that is an absolute failure for a 6th pick, imo.  You can find guys like that all the time as undrafted free agents or second round picks almost every year, so it's not like Smart is a one of a kind player, unless you count his propensity for flopping .  As an example, you only need to look back at last year's draft to find two better players than Smart in the second round in Josh Richardson and Norman Powell.  Not only are they better athletes, but they have brains and actually know how to play.  Richardson, for example, at 6'6 200 lbs is so quick, athletic, and tenacious that he is often tasked with guarding the opponents' point guards, and he does an incredible job.  Isaiah and Lowry, for example, couldn't score against the guy, but then on offense, but Powell and Richardson can not only shoot, but can also get to the basket, and they don't have Smart's horrible shot selection.  Coming into the league, for example, Richardson was known to have a great midrange game and the ability to create his own shot, in addition to his defense and passing skills.  The difference between guys like Powell and Richardson, as opposed to Smart, is that those guys are two way players, whereas Smart is simply a defender.  Who would you rather have?

Finally, I realize that I am ridiculous most of, if not all of, the time , but Demetrius Jackson is no ordinary 45th pick.  Have a look at the highlights of his 24 point 4 assist performance at Duke.  Not only is he the far superior athlete to Smart, but Marcus can only dream of being able to shoot, pass, handle, and create his own shot like Jackson can, and he has a far better chance of being an all star than either Smart or Rozier, and yes, I would start him over IT, because he's a better defender, ball handler, passer, and shooter (both on and off the ball) than all of our point guards put together.  That is a two way player, not Smart, IT, nor Rozier, but you don't have to take my word for it .  Watch footage of Jackson on YouTube and then try and tell me that you don't think he's better than Smart.  I'd also like to point out that guys like Jackson, Dunn, and Gary Payton II have far more potential than Smart, and it's not because of their athleticism, quickness, and other physical gifts - it's because of their skills, and we could have had them all on Thursday.  Ugh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmdXw7OJjZs   

Speaking of two way players, I'd rather have Malcolm Brogdon than Marcus Smart.

Lol you really just said to watch YouTube clips to see how much better Demetrius Jackson is than Marcus Smart? I will no longer respect your POV sir.

I mean, I didn't look to see if any of his games were up on youtube, so it's the best I've got, lol .  Did you even watch the clip?

[Beat LA]

Most psychologists are dangerously stupid people. Please stay away from marcus.  Psychologists are to blame as much as the media is today for the amount of idiocy out there.

Wow .

[GratefulCs]

Most psychologists are dangerously stupid people. Please stay away from marcus.  Psychologists are to blame as much as the media is today for the amount of idiocy out there.

Wow .

these dang people who study the brain!

[Ilikesports17]

Most psychologists are dangerously stupid people. Please stay away from marcus.  Psychologists are to blame as much as the media is today for the amount of idiocy out there.

Wow .

these dang people who study the brain!

idiots! all of them!

[Beat LA]

i believe marcus was terribly hampered in his rookie season with first step and elevating
-along with revolving door of players
-look how a slight high ankle sprain hindered and effected chrowders shot
-then you had 2nd season two dislocated fingers  not good for your shooting touch and then a dislocated knee how about that altering stats
-its not just time off but recovery time on the court
-a severe high ankle sprain,dislocated fingers and knee those are serious injurys for a rookie and 2nd year player
-even averys jumper betrays him after playing tough d all game -and marcus when chrowder went out had a run og great quards and even durant-hardi,derozan lliiard,westbrook,chris paul rose-
marcus gets all the clock running down shots that kelly or jerebko don't take-
no wonder his three point shooting suffered-
stat wise we have not seen marcus--but the playoffs did

I have, and always will, greatly value your insight, rollie, but I must ask why you keep sticking to these points and making all of these excuses for the guy.  I understand that he's had some bad injuries over the course of his short career, some of which came as a result of not having his ankles taped during his rookie year, iirc, as well as his shall we say 'style of play' , but it's not like he was ever a good offensive player to begin with with any kind of explosiveness that could help him get to the basket, and this goes back to his college, and probably high school, days, as well.  He was never a high percentage shooter, he always had terrible shot selection, he never had more than average ball handling skills, his decision making was, at best, questionable, and he developed a reputation for baiting the officials into calling fouls by flopping, so, looking back, it's not really a surprise to me that he's struggled so mightily, offensively, even when he hasn't been injured, in the NBA.  He's like the Charles Oakley of point guards, in terms of offense, imo, a guy who beats the crap out of the opposition, blatantly flops, and gets frustrated because he doesn't have the ability to finish inside despite his size.  I'd also argue that one of the reasons why he shoots so many 3s despite his poor percentages, going back to college, is because he doesn't know what his strengths, are, offensively, and after two years of watching nearly every game of his, I seriously wonder if he has any.  I'll give you that he had some great moments in the playoffs, mostly coming at home, but have you forgotten his 1-11 performance in game 2 of the series against the Hawks when he was inserted into the starting lineup due to Bradley's injury?  I don't know, maybe it's me, but I just don't think he has the skills that would lend me to believe that he's capable of being anything more than what he is right now, and for a 6th pick in the draft, that's pretty disturbing, imo.
 

[Celtics18]

Guys who are great offensive players, but struggle defensively are still considered star players.

Why isn't the reverse true?

[PhoSita]

Guys who are great offensive players, but struggle defensively are still considered star players.

Why isn't the reverse true?

I think it's because we've seen many examples of weaker defensive players overcoming their limitations, usually thanks to increased effort and a good team defensive scheme, and helping a good team win big games.

Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving are two recent examples.

It's harder for excellent defensive players with weak offensive ability to transcend their weaknesses in that way, especially these days when teams are extra bold about punishing opponents for giving floor time to guys that just can't score.

There are exceptions, but usually those exceptions are elite rim protecting / defensive rebounding big men.  Think Bismack Biyombo and Steven Adams in the playoffs this year, or Ben Wallace and Dikembe Motombo way back when.

In short, defensive weakness can be mitigated by increased effort and focus.

No amount of increased effort or focus can overcome a player's lack of offensive ability.  A terrible scorer can't just try harder and turn into a positive on the offensive end.

[BDeCosta26]

Statistically his progress will have a lot to do with his role. If Turner isn't retained I expect smarts minutes to increase above 30mpg and he and Rozier will be given more primary ball handler duties. In that role I predict a playoff like 32mjn 12pt 4.5rb 4ast per game season.

That is absolutely pathetic for the 6th overall pick, but I suppose it's what we have come to expect from him. Oh yeah. And he plays great defense. Whoop...de....doooooooooo.

Oh yeah, he's completely dominant in a whole half of the game. Whoop de doooo?

Smart had been a positive contributor for us since the moment he stepped on in Celtic green. He'll continue doing that no matter what.

I know defense isn't sexy, but you can't brush it off. If Smart becomes A decent player on offense (certainly possible, maybe even likely), he'll be a HUGE asset. Kid has DPOY potential.

Not exactly something to sneeze at.

Given the little he's shown, offensively, despite two years of receiving plenty of minutes, I wouldn't count on it, and, unfortunately, history tells us that we should probably stop holding out for him to suddenly become even an average scorer.  As a senior in high school, he averaged 15.1 points 9.2 rebounds, and 5 assists, and was ranked as the number 1 shooting guard and 10th best player overall in his class.  15.1 points!?  And he was a top ten player, nationally?  The shooting guards that year most have really sucked, lol .

Basketball isn't just about scoring points and counting stats B.LA. Much as you'd like to think so.

Your the guy who was saying "Let's trade Smart to Philly for two late 1sts!", so I'm not gonna pretend like you haven't already come to your own conclusions but c'mon man.

At the VERY least, Smart will be a Tony Allen like player. Superb defensively, and majorly limited offensively. But a DPOY candidate none the less. Let's remember that during our championship runs and in Memphis' playoff runs, Tony Allen was considered as valuable as anyone becAuse of his insane defensive ability. Smart has that gene. Even if he's JUST that, he's a very valuable player.

You constantly seem to ignore the fact that Marcus has been contributing to success since the moment he came into the league. Did you watch the playoffs at all? Outside of IT, Marcus is the main reason we were in that series to begin with after we lost AB. This dude has such a strong motor he can guard PF's at 6'3.

The kid shot 34% from 3 on a lot of attempts his rookie year. Now, I'm not discounting last year stats, but let's not pretend like his shooting %'s last year is the only thing we have to go on.

Considering how much he contributes on the defensive side of things, if Smart can become TA with a better shot and ball-handling ability, that's a dang good player. Considering the improvements we saw last year in terms of driving/ball-handling, as well as passing and court vision, I expect he'll be more than that.

I could understand being a little disappointed with that considering he was the 6th overall pick, but knowing you, you'd rather we play that kid we just drAfted at the end of the 2nd round over Smart. Which makes ZERO sense in just about every way. At least Marcus had proved he can contribute to a winning team with or without breaking out offensively.

I'm well aware of that, and that's not how I view the game, at all.  Hustle and effort matter - always have and always will - but for some reason that seems to be more important than having actual skills, nowadays.  I recently watched some clips on csnne after the draft, and Scal said that all you have to do to play for Stevens is defend your position, get out in the open floor, try to run off of Avery Bradley's and Marcus Smart's steals, and finish in transition.  Umm, that's it?  You don't have to be able to shoot, pass, dribble, move without the ball, post up, run off picks, etc.?  If that's the case, then anyone on this site can play in the NBA.  That's why we can't score in the halfcourt, because guys like Smart just flat out don't know how to play - they're all will and no skill.

As for Tony Allen, I hated that guy and was ecstatic when he left.  As much as he helped defensively, he gave almost all of it back on offense because the guy is a bonehead who plays completely out of control, can barely dribble, and is a horrible decision maker.  There was a reason why many on here called him 'Tony the Turnover' , and if that's all that Smart is, then that is an absolute failure for a 6th pick, imo.  You can find guys like that all the time as undrafted free agents or second round picks almost every year, so it's not like Smart is a one of a kind player, unless you count his propensity for flopping .  As an example, you only need to look back at last year's draft to find two better players than Smart in the second round in Josh Richardson and Norman Powell.  Not only are they better athletes, but they have brains and actually know how to play.  Richardson, for example, at 6'6 200 lbs is so quick, athletic, and tenacious that he is often tasked with guarding the opponents' point guards, and he does an incredible job.  Isaiah and Lowry, for example, couldn't score against the guy, but then on offense, but Powell and Richardson can not only shoot, but can also get to the basket, and they don't have Smart's horrible shot selection.  Coming into the league, for example, Richardson was known to have a great midrange game and the ability to create his own shot, in addition to his defense and passing skills.  The difference between guys like Powell and Richardson, as opposed to Smart, is that those guys are two way players, whereas Smart is simply a defender.  Who would you rather have?

Finally, I realize that I am ridiculous most of, if not all of, the time , but Demetrius Jackson is no ordinary 45th pick.  Have a look at the highlights of his 24 point 4 assist performance at Duke.  Not only is he the far superior athlete to Smart, but Marcus can only dream of being able to shoot, pass, handle, and create his own shot like Jackson can, and he has a far better chance of being an all star than either Smart or Rozier, and yes, I would start him over IT, because he's a better defender, ball handler, passer, and shooter (both on and off the ball) than all of our point guards put together.  That is a two way player, not Smart, IT, nor Rozier, but you don't have to take my word for it .  Watch footage of Jackson on YouTube and then try and tell me that you don't think he's better than Smart.  I'd also like to point out that guys like Jackson, Dunn, and Gary Payton II have far more potential than Smart, and it's not because of their athleticism, quickness, and other physical gifts - it's because of their skills, and we could have had them all on Thursday.  Ugh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmdXw7OJjZs   

Speaking of two way players, I'd rather have Malcolm Brogdon than Marcus Smart.

Lol you really just said to watch YouTube clips to see how much better Demetrius Jackson is than Marcus Smart? I will no longer respect your POV sir.

Well you should. B.LA knows basketball. He just has a kind of out there, IMO, outlook. Always looking for the next big steal in the draft. That said..

BLA, did you REALLY just say that a rookie picked in the middle of the second round a week ago should start over our All-Star PG who's just coming off an over 20 PT, 6 Ast season that saw him lead the fifth youngest team in the league to the 3rd best record in the East and a shade under 50 wins?

Jackson is a better ball handler, passer, and shooter than Isaiah, and a better defender than Smart or Bradley. Right. So this dude we picked up is gonna be a top 20 player in the league then? If you had a player who could do all those things better than those guys, he'd have to be, right? Better start buying jerseys.

I wouldn't count on it. Just like I wouldn't count on Malcom Brogden or Norman Powell becoming better players than Marcus Smart, a guy who's played big minutes on a legit playoff team and has already received All-NBA defensive team consideration.--

I know it's just a matter of time before Markel Brown and KJ McDaniels break out. You used to say how great those guys were gonna be.

[droopdog7]

Marcus is going to have a bunch of Folks opening mouth and inserting foot before it's all said and done..   He has things that you cant teach and the things he struggles with Many Many now great players have struggled with in their first 3-4 years in the League..
Takes time..
He has played in the playoffs every year of his NBA career.  Because of this everything he does is under a microscope.. But Despite that he continues to be a MAIN cog in the Reason why We win games.  You cant find that on a stat sheet..  They said when they drafted him that he was a winner and he has done nothing to disprove that.
In games he may miss a ton of 3's but If you truly watched every game, you will find that he always hit the 3ball when The team needed it most.. He is fearless and without question he Definitely has the Clutch gene..  He helps us in ways that you cant find in %'s or Pure Numbers.. 

You guys can keep your meaningless James Harden stats that = nothing.. Give me a player who actually affects winning.. Both sides of the Ball.

Some of you guys should watch more of the games and less of the box Scores.

I bet if you looked at stats you will find that this is NOT the case. 

[Kadin]

I have little, if any, faith in Smart at this point. He's not quite at Sully's level yet, but if he doesn't improve next year, then who knows