Author Topic: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?  (Read 16992 times)

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Re: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?
« Reply #45 on: June 26, 2016, 11:37:30 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Statistically his progress will have a lot to do with his role. If Turner isn't retained I expect smarts minutes to increase above 30mpg and he and Rozier will be given more primary ball handler duties. In that role I predict a playoff like 32mjn 12pt 4.5rb 4ast per game season.
That is absolutely pathetic for the 6th overall pick, but I suppose it's what we have come to expect from him. Oh yeah. And he plays great defense. Whoop...de....doooooooooo.

Oh yeah, he's completely dominant in a whole half of the game. Whoop de doooo?

Smart had been a positive contributor for us since the moment he stepped on in Celtic green. He'll continue doing that no matter what.

I know defense isn't sexy, but you can't brush it off. If Smart becomes A decent player on offense (certainly possible, maybe even likely), he'll be a HUGE asset. Kid has DPOY potential.

Not exactly something to sneeze at.

Given the little he's shown, offensively, despite two years of receiving plenty of minutes, I wouldn't count on it, and, unfortunately, history tells us that we should probably stop holding out for him to suddenly become even an average scorer.  As a senior in high school, he averaged 15.1 points :o 9.2 rebounds, and 5 assists, and was ranked as the number 1 shooting guard and 10th best player overall in his class.  15.1 points!?  And he was a top ten player, nationally?  The shooting guards that year most have really sucked, lol ;D.

Re: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?
« Reply #46 on: June 26, 2016, 11:38:23 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Smart has seemingly regressed every half season of his NBA career.

Year 1 pre-allstar:  .368/.350/.667
Year 1 post-allstar:  .366/.318/.627
Year 2 pre-allstar:  .363/.287/.753
year 2 post-allstar:  .327/.204/.812

I mean, that's almost impressive in how uncanny it is, right?  His field goal percentage and three point percentages have dropped every half season.  Guys are supposed to improve the more they play on this level.   That's almost amazing.  At this pace, he'll be shooting under 30% next season with under 20% from three.  At least his free throw percentage is rising.

But in following the NBA for a while, it seems that young guys pretty typically make a leap in year 3.   We've seen some sporadic signs from Marcus.   Parts of his game have definitely improved.  He remains an excellent defensive role player.   

His numbers in 6 playoff games weren't terrible:   12 points, 4.5 rebounds, 3 assists, 1.7 steals with .367/.344/.810 shooting. 

Anyone who watched those games would tell you that Smart made up for his ghastly shooting ability with the clutch gene.  Pretty amazing that despite his offensive limitations, he seemed to come through late in games right when we needed him to come through.  Maybe it's a focus issue?  He had his best performance in game 4 when he put up 20 points, 8 rebounds, 5 assists, and 2 steals with 47%/38%/100% shooting.

Could this be the year he figures things out and the shooting finally improves?  This could be a huge season for Marcus.  If he doesn't figure it out this year, we can basically kiss the Marcus Smart dream goodbye.  His trade value will plummet and there will be little hope that he'll develop beyond defensive role player. 

So who is expecting a leap?
Do you have any predictions for his stats in 2016/17  using your vast knowledge of the NBA?
nope

Re: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?
« Reply #47 on: June 26, 2016, 11:50:15 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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I just want to remind everyone that Marcus Smart is twenty-two years old.  For some perspective, I'd like to see a list of NBA guards currently twenty-two or younger who look destined to have a brighter future than Marcus Smart.

I can definitely think of some names that might be up for discussion, but I don't think it's a long list.
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Re: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?
« Reply #48 on: June 27, 2016, 12:11:41 AM »

Offline loco_91

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I'm expecting improvement if he gets to play more PG. Spotting up for 3's just isn't his game. The way he can fit in on offense is as a guy who initiates it. He is a good passer who can be trusted to make good decisions most of the time. Get guys like IT, Crowder, Olynyk the ball in a spot where they can score it or draw the help defense. This will allow his assist numbers to go up while limiting the damage from his poor shooting. We just need to avoid situations where the ball goes to him late in the shot clock and he has to toss up a step-back or make an out-of-control drive into the teeth of the defense.

Re: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?
« Reply #49 on: June 27, 2016, 12:33:33 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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I just want to remind everyone that Marcus Smart is twenty-two years old.  For some perspective, I'd like to see a list of NBA guards currently twenty-two or younger who look destined to have a brighter future than Marcus Smart.

I can definitely think of some names that might be up for discussion, but I don't think it's a long list.

I'm curious, what is this 'bright future' that you see for him?

Re: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?
« Reply #50 on: June 27, 2016, 12:42:51 AM »

Offline BDeCosta26

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Statistically his progress will have a lot to do with his role. If Turner isn't retained I expect smarts minutes to increase above 30mpg and he and Rozier will be given more primary ball handler duties. In that role I predict a playoff like 32mjn 12pt 4.5rb 4ast per game season.
That is absolutely pathetic for the 6th overall pick, but I suppose it's what we have come to expect from him. Oh yeah. And he plays great defense. Whoop...de....doooooooooo.

Oh yeah, he's completely dominant in a whole half of the game. Whoop de doooo?

Smart had been a positive contributor for us since the moment he stepped on in Celtic green. He'll continue doing that no matter what.

I know defense isn't sexy, but you can't brush it off. If Smart becomes A decent player on offense (certainly possible, maybe even likely), he'll be a HUGE asset. Kid has DPOY potential.

Not exactly something to sneeze at.

Given the little he's shown, offensively, despite two years of receiving plenty of minutes, I wouldn't count on it, and, unfortunately, history tells us that we should probably stop holding out for him to suddenly become even an average scorer.  As a senior in high school, he averaged 15.1 points :o 9.2 rebounds, and 5 assists, and was ranked as the number 1 shooting guard and 10th best player overall in his class.  15.1 points!?  And he was a top ten player, nationally?  The shooting guards that year most have really sucked, lol ;D.

Basketball isn't just about scoring points and counting stats B.LA. Much as you'd like to think so.

Your the guy who was saying "Let's trade Smart to Philly for two late 1sts!", so I'm not gonna pretend like you haven't already come to your own conclusions but c'mon man.

At the VERY least, Smart will be a Tony Allen like player. Superb defensively, and majorly limited offensively. But a DPOY candidate none the less. Let's remember that during our championship runs and in Memphis' playoff runs, Tony Allen was considered as valuable as anyone becAuse of his insane defensive ability. Smart has that gene. Even if he's JUST that, he's a very valuable player.

You constantly seem to ignore the fact that Marcus has been contributing to success since the moment he came into the league. Did you watch the playoffs at all? Outside of IT, Marcus is the main reason we were in that series to begin with after we lost AB. This dude has such a strong motor he can guard PF's at 6'3.

The kid shot 34% from 3 on a lot of attempts his rookie year. Now, I'm not discounting last year stats, but let's not pretend like his shooting %'s last year is the only thing we have to go on.

Considering how much he contributes on the defensive side of things, if Smart can become TA with a better shot and ball-handling ability, that's a dang good player. Considering the improvements we saw last year in terms of driving/ball-handling, as well as passing and court vision, I expect he'll be more than that.

I could understand being a little disappointed with that considering he was the 6th overall pick, but knowing you, you'd rather we play that kid we just drAfted at the end of the 2nd round over Smart. Which makes ZERO sense in just about every way. At least Marcus had proved he can contribute to a winning team with or without breaking out offensively.




Re: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?
« Reply #51 on: June 27, 2016, 01:14:28 AM »

Offline feckless

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Just what position does he play?
He stinks as a play maker and ball handler--so he's not a point, probably never will be. Evan Turner takes his minutes because Smart cannot run the offense or make good decisions.
He can't shoot so he's not a 2.
He can guard some 3's--but he is way too small to be a 3.
I know he is a very undersized four--he does rebound well.

Just wondering where he can leap to unless he improves his handle and his brain and his shooting--a lot, or he grows 4 or 5 inches.

I am also curious where we learn that he is a hard worker from.  Has anyone other than Marcus ever said he works hard on his ball handling, play making, decision making, shooting?
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 01:19:33 AM by feckless »
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Re: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?
« Reply #52 on: June 27, 2016, 01:28:54 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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Statistically his progress will have a lot to do with his role. If Turner isn't retained I expect smarts minutes to increase above 30mpg and he and Rozier will be given more primary ball handler duties. In that role I predict a playoff like 32mjn 12pt 4.5rb 4ast per game season.
That is absolutely pathetic for the 6th overall pick, but I suppose it's what we have come to expect from him. Oh yeah. And he plays great defense. Whoop...de....doooooooooo.

Oh yeah, he's completely dominant in a whole half of the game. Whoop de doooo?

Smart had been a positive contributor for us since the moment he stepped on in Celtic green. He'll continue doing that no matter what.

I know defense isn't sexy, but you can't brush it off. If Smart becomes A decent player on offense (certainly possible, maybe even likely), he'll be a HUGE asset. Kid has DPOY potential.

Not exactly something to sneeze at.

Given the little he's shown, offensively, despite two years of receiving plenty of minutes, I wouldn't count on it, and, unfortunately, history tells us that we should probably stop holding out for him to suddenly become even an average scorer.  As a senior in high school, he averaged 15.1 points :o 9.2 rebounds, and 5 assists, and was ranked as the number 1 shooting guard and 10th best player overall in his class.  15.1 points!?  And he was a top ten player, nationally?  The shooting guards that year most have really sucked, lol ;D.

Basketball isn't just about scoring points and counting stats B.LA. Much as you'd like to think so.

Your the guy who was saying "Let's trade Smart to Philly for two late 1sts!", so I'm not gonna pretend like you haven't already come to your own conclusions but c'mon man.

At the VERY least, Smart will be a Tony Allen like player. Superb defensively, and majorly limited offensively. But a DPOY candidate none the less. Let's remember that during our championship runs and in Memphis' playoff runs, Tony Allen was considered as valuable as anyone becAuse of his insane defensive ability. Smart has that gene. Even if he's JUST that, he's a very valuable player.

You constantly seem to ignore the fact that Marcus has been contributing to success since the moment he came into the league. Did you watch the playoffs at all? Outside of IT, Marcus is the main reason we were in that series to begin with after we lost AB. This dude has such a strong motor he can guard PF's at 6'3.

The kid shot 34% from 3 on a lot of attempts his rookie year. Now, I'm not discounting last year stats, but let's not pretend like his shooting %'s last year is the only thing we have to go on.

Considering how much he contributes on the defensive side of things, if Smart can become TA with a better shot and ball-handling ability, that's a dang good player. Considering the improvements we saw last year in terms of driving/ball-handling, as well as passing and court vision, I expect he'll be more than that.

I could understand being a little disappointed with that considering he was the 6th overall pick, but knowing you, you'd rather we play that kid we just drAfted at the end of the 2nd round over Smart. Which makes ZERO sense in just about every way. At least Marcus had proved he can contribute to a winning team with or without breaking out offensively.

I'm well aware of that, and that's not how I view the game, at all.  Hustle and effort matter - always have and always will - but for some reason that seems to be more important than having actual skills, nowadays.  I recently watched some clips on csnne after the draft, and Scal said that all you have to do to play for Stevens is defend your position, get out in the open floor, try to run off of Avery Bradley's and Marcus Smart's steals, and finish in transition.  Umm, that's it?  You don't have to be able to shoot, pass, dribble, move without the ball, post up, run off picks, etc.?  If that's the case, then anyone on this site can play in the NBA.  That's why we can't score in the halfcourt, because guys like Smart just flat out don't know how to play - they're all will and no skill.

As for Tony Allen, I hated that guy and was ecstatic when he left.  As much as he helped defensively, he gave almost all of it back on offense because the guy is a bonehead who plays completely out of control, can barely dribble, and is a horrible decision maker.  There was a reason why many on here called him 'Tony the Turnover' ::), and if that's all that Smart is, then that is an absolute failure for a 6th pick, imo.  You can find guys like that all the time as undrafted free agents or second round picks almost every year, so it's not like Smart is a one of a kind player, unless you count his propensity for flopping ::).  As an example, you only need to look back at last year's draft to find two better players than Smart in the second round in Josh Richardson and Norman Powell.  Not only are they better athletes, but they have brains and actually know how to play.  Richardson, for example, at 6'6 200 lbs is so quick, athletic, and tenacious that he is often tasked with guarding the opponents' point guards, and he does an incredible job.  Isaiah and Lowry, for example, couldn't score against the guy, but then on offense, but Powell and Richardson can not only shoot, but can also get to the basket, and they don't have Smart's horrible shot selection.  Coming into the league, for example, Richardson was known to have a great midrange game and the ability to create his own shot, in addition to his defense and passing skills.  The difference between guys like Powell and Richardson, as opposed to Smart, is that those guys are two way players, whereas Smart is simply a defender.  Who would you rather have?

Finally, I realize that I am ridiculous most of, if not all of, the time ;D, but Demetrius Jackson is no ordinary 45th pick.  Have a look at the highlights of his 24 point 4 assist performance at Duke.  Not only is he the far superior athlete to Smart, but Marcus can only dream of being able to shoot, pass, handle, and create his own shot like Jackson can, and he has a far better chance of being an all star than either Smart or Rozier, and yes, I would start him over IT, because he's a better defender, ball handler, passer, and shooter (both on and off the ball) than all of our point guards put together.  That is a two way player, not Smart, IT, nor Rozier, but you don't have to take my word for it ;) ;D.  Watch footage of Jackson on YouTube and then try and tell me that you don't think he's better than Smart.  I'd also like to point out that guys like Jackson, Dunn, and Gary Payton II have far more potential than Smart, and it's not because of their athleticism, quickness, and other physical gifts - it's because of their skills, and we could have had them all on Thursday.  Ugh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmdXw7OJjZs   

Speaking of two way players, I'd rather have Malcolm Brogdon than Marcus Smart.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 02:16:02 AM by Beat LA »

Re: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?
« Reply #53 on: June 27, 2016, 02:10:02 AM »

Offline trickybilly

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Did someone suggest that Marcus play Summer League this year??? Whaaaaa?

I actually really like Marcus playing point guard in our pass heavy offense. The strategy of bailing out with a late Turner post-up or ISO won't be available, and that will be the story of the second unit this year, I think we will see a lot more of Marcus putting it on the floor with 6-10 secs left on the clock. I don't hate his post-play, but I'd prefer to see him drive and score/kick. Hearts in mouth Cs fans..

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Re: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?
« Reply #54 on: June 27, 2016, 02:13:54 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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Just what position does he play?
He stinks as a play maker and ball handler--so he's not a point, probably never will be. Evan Turner takes his minutes because Smart cannot run the offense or make good decisions.
He can't shoot so he's not a 2.
He can guard some 3's--but he is way too small to be a 3.
I know he is a very undersized four--he does rebound well.

Just wondering where he can leap to unless he improves his handle and his brain and his shooting--a lot, or he grows 4 or 5 inches.

I am also curious where we learn that he is a hard worker from.  Has anyone other than Marcus ever said he works hard on his ball handling, play making, decision making, shooting?

Lol, TP ;D. That's like when people say so and so could be really good if he ever learned how to dribble, pass, and shoot.  Umm, what?  Shouldn't they know how to do those things, already, and more importantly, how the hell did they make it to the NBA without any of those skills?  Ugh.  It really is mind boggling.  Sigh.

Re: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?
« Reply #55 on: June 27, 2016, 02:14:51 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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Did someone suggest that Marcus play Summer League this year??? Whaaaaa?

I actually really like Marcus playing point guard in our pass heavy offense. The strategy of bailing out with a late Turner post-up or ISO won't be available, and that will be the story of the second unit this year, I think we will see a lot more of Marcus putting it on the floor with 6-10 secs left on the clock. I don't hate his post-play, but I'd prefer to see him drive and score/kick. Hearts in mouth Cs fans..

Oh dear god, lol ;D.

Re: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?
« Reply #56 on: June 27, 2016, 03:46:00 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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I just want to remind everyone that Marcus Smart is twenty-two years old.  For some perspective, I'd like to see a list of NBA guards currently twenty-two or younger who look destined to have a brighter future than Marcus Smart.

I can definitely think of some names that might be up for discussion, but I don't think it's a long list.

I mean, for a start we can probably list Beal, Lavine, Russell, Schroder, and Booker.  Arguably you could also include Payton and Mudiay.

Then I'd ask, how many guards over the age of 22 still figure, nonetheless, to be more valuable over the next five to eight years?

I think there are plenty of names on that list - proven starters and stars still in their prime.

Smart has earned a spot in my heart with his gritty play, especially on defense.  After two years he looks like a role player to me.  An Iman Shumpert / Patrick Beverley type.  Yes, he's still young and has shown flashes of potential.  But he also was supposed to be one of the more NBA ready players in his draft class.  Arguably, he hasn't shown a great deal of improvement in his overall offensive game in two seasons. That's troubling and disappointing, even as his defense has been marvelous.  He will never be a quality starter, let alone more than that, unless he drastically improves his offense.
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Re: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?
« Reply #57 on: June 27, 2016, 11:11:08 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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I just want to remind everyone that Marcus Smart is twenty-two years old.  For some perspective, I'd like to see a list of NBA guards currently twenty-two or younger who look destined to have a brighter future than Marcus Smart.

I can definitely think of some names that might be up for discussion, but I don't think it's a long list.

I'm curious, what is this 'bright future' that you see for him?

I see a defensive combo guard who can be a starter at either the one or the two depending on who he is paired with.  I expect his outside jumper to creep up to respectability.  I think he will continue to be a good passer, rebounder, and defender who impacts the game in a variety of ways other than scoring.

I think he could be the type of anomaly who makes multiple all star games scoring less than fifteen PPG.  Even if he never makes an all star game, I would be shocked if he never makes all defense.  He could even finish top five in DPOY a few times, and maybe even win one.

If he does all this and manages to help the Cs win a title, he will go down in history as a legendary Celtic.
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Re: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?
« Reply #58 on: June 27, 2016, 11:22:08 AM »

Offline dannyboy35

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If turner stays I expect smart will continue to struggle, probably lose some confidence and settle in as a role player. If turner goes, I think there's still time he surprises a lot of us and makes a big leap. I just think it's two years late just to rack up more meaningless wins at his and the team's future expense.

Re: Who is expecting a leap from Marcus Smart in year 3?
« Reply #59 on: June 27, 2016, 11:26:11 AM »

Offline walker834

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Love the positivity on this board(sarcasm).  Mike Conley put up similar numbers his first few years in the league.  Better percentages but not the defense.  I don't think it's out of the question Marcus will be a better defensive version of Mike Conley, which is what we expected in the first place.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4246/

What is it that people don't understand that it takes quite a few players time when they are coming into the league this young?

It's not that rare for players to be like Smart and then start really improving in years 3,4, and 5.  It took Kawii until year 5 until he really came into his own.

Conley didn't have his best year and breakout year until his 8th year.  Players generally hit their prime around 27 or 28 years old.

Players like this generally start really contributing around their 3rd year or so.   Marcus's numbers have improved each year.  He's on the same trajectory as any of these other guys.