Author Topic: To those criticizing Ainge  (Read 11918 times)

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Re: To those criticizing Ainge
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2016, 05:09:17 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Look this whole theory about Durant might come here now because now we have room for two max contracts? Is that what passes for great basketball knowledge in Boston now? It's very cute and very asinine. There is no reason for him to come here now. Guys like Durant don't go to teams with lots of cap space. It doesn't work that way. Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown won't be attracting Durant.

Re: To those criticizing Ainge
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2016, 05:10:20 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Hey while we're out there saying that the other GMs were being meanies to Ainge should we also start a rumor they threatened to kick his little doggie too?


No, but it is silly to believe that Ainge is swinging for lopsided trades while all the other GMs are only trying to get "fair value for everyone" trades.



The entire belief going into this offseason by the media (and much of the fans) was that the Celtics had to make a big trade and had to make a huge step forward.   This lead to some belief that Ainge must be desperate to trade. 


Anyone think some GMs may have made trade offers with that belief and were shocked when the Celtics were not desperate? 

Re: To those criticizing Ainge
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2016, 05:11:33 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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Tp to the OP.

Ainge drafted the guy with the highest upside. People clamor for a star and then when we draft a guy with star potential, people complain about his college numbers. Ainge swung for the fences with Brown, you don't get a star by playing it safe.

Those who mentioned the great deals that Ainge missed out on are confused. Did you want us to add another pg in Teague or Hill? Did you want us to add another draft pick so you could complain when Ainge didn't pick who you wanted? You want us to pursue Durant and Horford right? Well then we can't be taking on salary like the Pacers did for Teague.
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Re: To those criticizing Ainge
« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2016, 05:11:59 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Hey while we're out there saying that the other GMs were being meanies to Ainge should we also start a rumor they threatened to kick his little doggie too?


No, but it is silly to believe that Ainge is swinging for lopsided trades while all the other GMs are only trying to get "fair value for everyone" trades.



The entire belief going into this offseason by the media (and much of the fans) was that the Celtics had to make a big trade and had to make a huge step forward.   This lead to some belief that Ainge must be desperate to trade. 


Anyone think some GMs may have made trade offers with that belief and were shocked when the Celtics were not desperate?
No. I don't think they underrated his intelligence like that, while doing decent deals with each other. Especially once they offered something lopsided and he was like "No" and then they did it again and he was like "No."

Re: To those criticizing Ainge
« Reply #34 on: June 25, 2016, 05:12:31 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Look this whole theory about Durant might come here now because now we have room for two max contracts? Is that what passes for great basketball knowledge in Boston now? It's very cute and very asinine. There is no reason for him to come here now. Guys like Durant don't go to teams with lots of cap space. It doesn't work that way. Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown won't be attracting Durant.
heh... it's a borderline 50 win team without any additions.   Sure, we could have traded Amir + Jerebko + Rozier for D-Rose to fill our second max cap slot, but it's better to just head into our meeting with Durant to say "Hey... we're adding you to a 50 win team... and then we have another 26 million to add another max player.  Who would you like us to get?"

Yes.  It makes a difference.

Re: To those criticizing Ainge
« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2016, 05:12:54 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Look this whole theory about Durant might come here now because now we have room for two max contracts? Is that what passes for great basketball knowledge in Boston now? It's very cute and very asinine. There is no reason for him to come here now. Guys like Durant don't go to teams with lots of cap space. It doesn't work that way. Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown won't be attracting Durant.

You're right, a 48 win playoff team with Isaiah Thomas, Avery Bradley, Jay Crowder, and Brad Stevens, and our ability to add a player of Durant's choosing to our roster along with him, is what can attract Durant. That, and the fact that we are in the Eastern Conference.

Re: To those criticizing Ainge
« Reply #36 on: June 25, 2016, 05:14:01 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Hey while we're out there saying that the other GMs were being meanies to Ainge should we also start a rumor they threatened to kick his little doggie too?


No, but it is silly to believe that Ainge is swinging for lopsided trades while all the other GMs are only trying to get "fair value for everyone" trades.



The entire belief going into this offseason by the media (and much of the fans) was that the Celtics had to make a big trade and had to make a huge step forward.   This lead to some belief that Ainge must be desperate to trade. 


Anyone think some GMs may have made trade offers with that belief and were shocked when the Celtics were not desperate?
No. I don't think they underrated his intelligence like that, while doing decent deals with each other. Especially once they offered something lopsided and he was like "No" and then they did it again and he was like "No."


So if there were some great offers out there, why didn't Phoenix take the deal with the next pick? 

Or the T-wolves?



Re: To those criticizing Ainge
« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2016, 05:15:47 PM »

Offline Scintan

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Did anybody pay any attention whatsoever to the 24ish hours that were the draft?

Teague for the 12th pick. An all star for the 12th pick. That was a great trade.

OKC got a GREAT trade.

I also absolutely do not believe that there wasn't a decent trade to be had for the 3rd pick. Don't believe it. Don't come here with that.

The trade we made with the 2nds for the future first. It was decent.

Robin Lopez and Jerian Grant for D Rose is pretty good.

Where would Teague fit in on our team? Would you be willing to give up our double max cap space for a guy who is not as good as IT and would take playing time away from our best player and from Smart and Bradley? I'm glad we didn't trade for Teague. He doesnt help our team at all.

The OKC trade was great for OKC, but as I said, what borderline all-star PF do we have to offer to Orlando, and why would we want more rookies when we were already drafting 8 players?

The Rose trade, Rose is cooked, would kill our cap, and like Teague doesnt fit our team. The Bulls were trying to give him away. On the other side, the guys we drafted thursday night are much better than Robin Lopez and Jerian Grant, and we didn't have to give up anything to get them, AND they allow us to keep our cap flexibility.

So, where are the good trades that were made that would have helped us that we missed out on?


Wait.....  a guard who shoots 36% for his career from 3, and hit at a 40% clip last season, and produced about 6 assists per game last year as well, doesn't fit the Celtics?  Really?

I don't care about the Teague situation one way or another, but come on. 


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Re: To those criticizing Ainge
« Reply #38 on: June 25, 2016, 05:16:00 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Hey while we're out there saying that the other GMs were being meanies to Ainge should we also start a rumor they threatened to kick his little doggie too?


No, but it is silly to believe that Ainge is swinging for lopsided trades while all the other GMs are only trying to get "fair value for everyone" trades.



The entire belief going into this offseason by the media (and much of the fans) was that the Celtics had to make a big trade and had to make a huge step forward.   This lead to some belief that Ainge must be desperate to trade. 


Anyone think some GMs may have made trade offers with that belief and were shocked when the Celtics were not desperate?
No. I don't think they underrated his intelligence like that, while doing decent deals with each other. Especially once they offered something lopsided and he was like "No" and then they did it again and he was like "No."


So if there were some great offers out there, why didn't Phoenix take the deal with the next pick? 

Or the T-wolves?


Exactly. The reported offers were clearly exaggerated, because the Suns and the Wolves didn't jump for those offers either. Ainge made the right call.

Re: To those criticizing Ainge
« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2016, 05:16:32 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Did anybody pay any attention whatsoever to the 24ish hours that were the draft?

Teague for the 12th pick. An all star for the 12th pick. That was a great trade.

OKC got a GREAT trade.

I also absolutely do not believe that there wasn't a decent trade to be had for the 3rd pick. Don't believe it. Don't come here with that.

The trade we made with the 2nds for the future first. It was decent.

Robin Lopez and Jerian Grant for D Rose is pretty good.

Where would Teague fit in on our team?

You mean George Hill... since the #12 pick was traded for George Hill (30 years old and under contract for 1 season).

Hill would have been a nice addition to this team, though we have a pretty major log jam at the guard spots and adding him would have killed our ability to have a second max cap slot... which despite how Eja is reacting, makes a difference.  It made a difference when Orlando used double-max cap space to lure both Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady.  It made a difference when Miami used double-max cap space to lure both LeBron and Bosh.   There is some precedent for players joining a team together.   It will make a difference when Durant chooses a team.  Does he want to join a team with Whiteside?  HOrford?  Dwight? Derozan?  Barnes?   Does he want us to trade for some overpaid player like D-Rose and use our cap space to absorb salary?  Does he want us to sign Mike Conley and trade Thomas to the highest bidder?  Does he want us to use the cap space to add Pau Gasol on a short-term deal?

It makes a difference.   Or, we could have (theoretically) traded #16 + #23 + additional picks to get George Hill and say "Hey, KD... come join a team with 7 guards !"
« Last Edit: June 25, 2016, 05:22:51 PM by LarBrd33 »

Re: To those criticizing Ainge
« Reply #40 on: June 25, 2016, 05:17:18 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Did anybody pay any attention whatsoever to the 24ish hours that were the draft?

Teague for the 12th pick. An all star for the 12th pick. That was a great trade.

OKC got a GREAT trade.

I also absolutely do not believe that there wasn't a decent trade to be had for the 3rd pick. Don't believe it. Don't come here with that.

The trade we made with the 2nds for the future first. It was decent.

Robin Lopez and Jerian Grant for D Rose is pretty good.

Where would Teague fit in on our team? Would you be willing to give up our double max cap space for a guy who is not as good as IT and would take playing time away from our best player and from Smart and Bradley? I'm glad we didn't trade for Teague. He doesnt help our team at all.

The OKC trade was great for OKC, but as I said, what borderline all-star PF do we have to offer to Orlando, and why would we want more rookies when we were already drafting 8 players?

The Rose trade, Rose is cooked, would kill our cap, and like Teague doesnt fit our team. The Bulls were trying to give him away. On the other side, the guys we drafted thursday night are much better than Robin Lopez and Jerian Grant, and we didn't have to give up anything to get them, AND they allow us to keep our cap flexibility.

So, where are the good trades that were made that would have helped us that we missed out on?


Wait.....  a guard who shoots 36% for his career from 3, and hit at a 40% clip last season, and produced about 6 assists per game last year as well, doesn't fit the Celtics?  Really?

I don't care about the Teague situation one way or another, but come on.

No he wouldn't. He would take time away from younger and better players at his position, and would kill our ability to sign 2 max free agents, so he would in reality hurt us.

Re: To those criticizing Ainge
« Reply #41 on: June 25, 2016, 05:18:18 PM »

Offline 86MaxwellSmart

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Great post actually....well thought out.
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Re: To those criticizing Ainge
« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2016, 05:19:55 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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This was a completely unnecessary thread.
Ainge has made plenty of mistakes. 
Ainge didn't play it smart this time around: not even close.
Nobody's above criticism. 
Boston's been failing to do what they've claimed they were going to do for years now, and Ainge is the leader.  He deserves the heat. 


But, do let us all know when we finally get those fireworks.
I completely disagree.  There was no reason to make any significant moves before meeting with Durant.  If we strike out on signing two max contracts, you can bellyache about it.  But until then, bringing in large contracts (effectively killing our double max cap space) would be a foolish decision.

Your post doesn't really respond to mine, and is really just continuing an approach that does nothing but kick the can down to the next line, which is what the homers have been doing for years.  "Wait for the draft!" becomes "Wait for free agency!" becomes "Wait for trades" becomes "Wait for the draft!".  It's been a ridiculous cycle, and you're one of the posters who should be smart enough to realize what you've fallen into.

In the three years since trading away KG and Pierce, Ainge has dealt Rondo for Jae Crowder (a legit starter), a first rounder, and two seconds (via Brendan Wright - one was used to help get the Clippers' first rounder).  He also used a trade exception to get Thornton and a first from the Cavs, then turned around and sent that to the Suns for Isaiah Thomas (an all star).  He resigned AB (a two-time all defensive teamer) and Crowder (a very good SF) to bargain deals.  He's drafted some decent players, but it has yet to be seen how most of the picks play out.

Most importantly, though, he hasn't ***ed it all up.  He had his chances (and people calling for it to happen).  He could have sold the farm for Love.  He could have maxed out Rondo.  He could have sent the best pick we've had in decades for 1 year of Nerlens Noel.  None of them would have been good long term moves.

People say to wait until the next major league event because the real advice, "Be patient, and wait for the right opportunity" is going to be lost on a lot of people.  Top players don't become available very often, and blowing your load on a mediocre one (like Love or Butler) isn't a good way to build a contender.  If you want to win championships, you have to make the right moves, not make a trade just for the sake of making a trade or sacrificing flexibility just to make fans a little happier short term. 

No one can make you (or anyone else) be patient and wait for the right opportunity to come along. I'm glad Ainge isn't being pressured by some impatient fans to make a bad long term move just for some short term happiness.
I'm bitter.

Re: To those criticizing Ainge
« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2016, 05:22:43 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Look this whole theory about Durant might come here now because now we have room for two max contracts? Is that what passes for great basketball knowledge in Boston now? It's very cute and very asinine. There is no reason for him to come here now. Guys like Durant don't go to teams with lots of cap space. It doesn't work that way. Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown won't be attracting Durant.

You're right, a 48 win playoff team with Isaiah Thomas, Avery Bradley, Jay Crowder, and Brad Stevens, and our ability to add a player of Durant's choosing to our roster along with him, is what can attract Durant. That, and the fact that we are in the Eastern Conference.
Nope

Re: To those criticizing Ainge
« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2016, 05:23:35 PM »

Offline Scintan

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Did anybody pay any attention whatsoever to the 24ish hours that were the draft?

Teague for the 12th pick. An all star for the 12th pick. That was a great trade.

OKC got a GREAT trade.

I also absolutely do not believe that there wasn't a decent trade to be had for the 3rd pick. Don't believe it. Don't come here with that.

The trade we made with the 2nds for the future first. It was decent.

Robin Lopez and Jerian Grant for D Rose is pretty good.

Where would Teague fit in on our team? Would you be willing to give up our double max cap space for a guy who is not as good as IT and would take playing time away from our best player and from Smart and Bradley? I'm glad we didn't trade for Teague. He doesnt help our team at all.

The OKC trade was great for OKC, but as I said, what borderline all-star PF do we have to offer to Orlando, and why would we want more rookies when we were already drafting 8 players?

The Rose trade, Rose is cooked, would kill our cap, and like Teague doesnt fit our team. The Bulls were trying to give him away. On the other side, the guys we drafted thursday night are much better than Robin Lopez and Jerian Grant, and we didn't have to give up anything to get them, AND they allow us to keep our cap flexibility.

So, where are the good trades that were made that would have helped us that we missed out on?


Wait.....  a guard who shoots 36% for his career from 3, and hit at a 40% clip last season, and produced about 6 assists per game last year as well, doesn't fit the Celtics?  Really?

I don't care about the Teague situation one way or another, but come on.

No he wouldn't. He would take time away from younger and better players at his position, and would kill our ability to sign 2 max free agents, so he would in reality hurt us.

To repeat, summarize and clarify:

It's your position that a guard who can shoot would not help a team that needs a guard who can shoot.  It's also your position that said guard would actually hurt the team.


That's completely insane.


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