Author Topic: K.C. Johnson - Butler deal discussed was Crowder, #3, #16  (Read 8468 times)

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K.C. Johnson - Butler deal discussed was Crowder, #3, #16
« on: June 24, 2016, 09:54:33 PM »

Online jpotter33

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https://twitter.com/RealGM/status/746506008260804609/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/242401/Bulls-Celtics-Discussed-No-3-No-16-Jae-Crowder-For-Jimmy-Butler

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/ct-jimmy-butler-gar-forman-rumors-spt-0625-20160624-story.html

Here's the quote: "The Bulls held advanced discussions with the Celtics centered on Butler and the No. 3 pick, with whom they would've selected Providence guard Kris Dunn, league sources said. Several proposals were exchanged, including one with Jae Crowder and the Celtics' No. 3 and No. 16 picks, league sources said."

Now you can take whatever you want from that. It could be interpreted that maybe more would be added to that deal. However, this very well could just be salary filler due to cap/salary requirements in this trade. Also, from what I know, K.C. Johnson is to the Chicago Bulls as Steve Bulpett is to the Boston Celtics, i.e. a pretty reliable source, since Bulpett is widely considered around here to be the most reliable source for Celtics news.

Now, it's pretty well accepted that the Bulls wanted Crowder and the Brooklyn pick at the deadline, but Danny said no due to not wanting Crowder involved in any deals (I guess to pair them up). Some were even saying that Crowder was "virtually untouchable" in trades.

Now I don't how true this is, but I think we can all agree on one thing - if it is true, this is an absolute failure on Danny's part to not upgrade the roster. I've said all along that I think the trade would be something along these lines, because his value would've only dropped since the trade deadline.

My theory is this - Danny is way too attached to Crowder after him finding his value seemingly out of nowhere. That or he is way too stuck on combining Crowder with Butler.

Re: K.C. Johnson - Butler deal discussed was Crowder, #3, #16
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2016, 09:56:26 PM »

Offline j804

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Wow if that was the centerpiece of the deal Crowder + #3 then Danny is an idiot.
"7ft PG. Rondo leaves and GUESS WHAT? We got a BIGGER point guard!"-Tommy on Olynyk


Re: K.C. Johnson - Butler deal discussed was Crowder, #3, #16
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2016, 09:58:38 PM »

Offline GreenCoffeeBean

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Crowder improved a ton from year 1 with us to year 2. I think he has more room for growth. Danny was right to say no. Crowded was border line second team all star before he got hurt.

Re: K.C. Johnson - Butler deal discussed was Crowder, #3, #16
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2016, 09:59:47 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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My theory is this - Danny is way too attached to Crowder after him finding his value seemingly out of nowhere. That or he is way too stuck on combining Crowder with Butler.
My theory is this - this is carefully curated information that doesn't list the entirety of the proposed deals. A deal with "Jae Crowder, the 3rd and the 16th" isn't necessarily a deal that stops there.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: K.C. Johnson - Butler deal discussed was Crowder, #3, #16
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2016, 10:01:27 PM »

Offline 35Lewis

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I like Butler but statistically you aren't getting a vast improvement offensively or defensively from Crowder and the difference in contract is huge.  The best assets we have are the cheap contracts of Bradley and Crowder because it allows us to bring in two max guys while still carrying three other players that could get double what we pay.

Re: K.C. Johnson - Butler deal discussed was Crowder, #3, #16
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2016, 10:03:57 PM »

Online jpotter33

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My theory is this - Danny is way too attached to Crowder after him finding his value seemingly out of nowhere. That or he is way too stuck on combining Crowder with Butler.
My theory is this - this is carefully curated information that doesn't list the entirety of the proposed deals. A deal with "Jae Crowder, the 3rd and the 16th" isn't necessarily a deal that stops there.

Sure, and I admitted as much, but that very well could have just been salary filler since it was necessary to make the trade. So it could've been Crowder, JJ, 3, and 16, which obviously you still do.

The amount of skepticism on here amazes me, but mostly just because it's appearing now after the draft where it wasn't before the draft. This isn't some fake account tweeting this; this is a legitimate Bulls writer that has many connections with the team. If he thought there were more principal pieces to the trade, then he'd put them on there. There's no motivation for him to leave those off. There's no leverage to be gained now.

Re: K.C. Johnson - Butler deal discussed was Crowder, #3, #16
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2016, 10:06:36 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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My theory is this - Danny is way too attached to Crowder after him finding his value seemingly out of nowhere. That or he is way too stuck on combining Crowder with Butler.
My theory is this - this is carefully curated information that doesn't list the entirety of the proposed deals. A deal with "Jae Crowder, the 3rd and the 16th" isn't necessarily a deal that stops there.

Sure, and I admitted as much, but that very well could have just been salary filler since it was necessary to make the trade. So it could've been Crowder, JJ, 3, and 16, which obviously you still do.

The amount of skepticism on here amazes, but mostly just because it's appearing now after the draft where it wasn't before the draft. This isn't some fake account tweeting this; this is a legitimate Bulls writer that has many connections with the team. If he thought there were more principal pieces to the trade, then he'd put them on there. There's no motivation for him to leave those off.
Obviously you do that deal. But do you honestly believe that was the deal? I think it's foolish to think nit was that simple.

Re: K.C. Johnson - Butler deal discussed was Crowder, #3, #16
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2016, 10:07:22 PM »

Offline j804

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I like Butler but statistically you aren't getting a vast improvement offensively or defensively from Crowder and the difference in contract is huge.  The best assets we have are the cheap contracts of Bradley and Crowder because it allows us to bring in two max guys while still carrying three other players that could get double what we pay.
The thing is without a Butler or other legitimate star nobody's coming here and we're stuck in mediocrity.
"7ft PG. Rondo leaves and GUESS WHAT? We got a BIGGER point guard!"-Tommy on Olynyk


Re: K.C. Johnson - Butler deal discussed was Crowder, #3, #16
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2016, 10:07:29 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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why would you do that deal? Butler is not that good.

If Butler was that good Chicago would not be trying to trade him. The coach is already gone, Rose is gone, so why are they still trying to dump Butler?

Re: K.C. Johnson - Butler deal discussed was Crowder, #3, #16
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2016, 10:12:05 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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My theory is this - Danny is way too attached to Crowder after him finding his value seemingly out of nowhere. That or he is way too stuck on combining Crowder with Butler.
My theory is this - this is carefully curated information that doesn't list the entirety of the proposed deals. A deal with "Jae Crowder, the 3rd and the 16th" isn't necessarily a deal that stops there.

Sure, and I admitted as much, but that very well could have just been salary filler since it was necessary to make the trade. So it could've been Crowder, JJ, 3, and 16, which obviously you still do.
I'm not so sure what's so obvious about it. Crowder is no chopped liver, so it depends on how much you like the guy you've got at 3.

Also, most people evaluate the "obviousness" of this deal on some sort of misguided idea that this will gift-wrap Durant for you. It won't.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: K.C. Johnson - Butler deal discussed was Crowder, #3, #16
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2016, 10:14:54 PM »

Offline BlastFromThePast

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why would you do that deal? Butler is not that good.

If Butler was that good Chicago would not be trying to trade him. The coach is already gone, Rose is gone, so why are they still trying to dump Butler?

Uh, does the word re-build mean anything to you?  Much like Ainge when he traded KG and PP, the Bulls were preparing to move on and the Bulls apparently valued Dunn, Crowder and the #16 pick as being worth trading Butler for.

Re: K.C. Johnson - Butler deal discussed was Crowder, #3, #16
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2016, 10:16:04 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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Quote
Several proposals were exchanged, including one with Jae Crowder and the Celtics' No. 3 and No. 16 picks

It doesn't say who proposed this, only that it was proposed.  For all we know, Danny made this offer and the Bulls wanted more.  Either way, I don't think Butler is enough of an upgrade over Crowder to justify giving up #3 and #16
I'm bitter.

Re: K.C. Johnson - Butler deal discussed was Crowder, #3, #16
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2016, 10:16:56 PM »

Online jpotter33

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My theory is this - Danny is way too attached to Crowder after him finding his value seemingly out of nowhere. That or he is way too stuck on combining Crowder with Butler.
My theory is this - this is carefully curated information that doesn't list the entirety of the proposed deals. A deal with "Jae Crowder, the 3rd and the 16th" isn't necessarily a deal that stops there.

Sure, and I admitted as much, but that very well could have just been salary filler since it was necessary to make the trade. So it could've been Crowder, JJ, 3, and 16, which obviously you still do.

The amount of skepticism on here amazes, but mostly just because it's appearing now after the draft where it wasn't before the draft. This isn't some fake account tweeting this; this is a legitimate Bulls writer that has many connections with the team. If he thought there were more principal pieces to the trade, then he'd put them on there. There's no motivation for him to leave those off.
Obviously you do that deal. But do you honestly believe that was the deal? I think it's foolish to think nit was that simple.

I mean, that was the reported trade rate at the trade deadline for him (pretty well accepted, too), and his value would've only got lower since then. Why would it be much different?

Re: K.C. Johnson - Butler deal discussed was Crowder, #3, #16
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2016, 10:17:29 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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I like Butler but statistically you aren't getting a vast improvement offensively or defensively from Crowder and the difference in contract is huge.  The best assets we have are the cheap contracts of Bradley and Crowder because it allows us to bring in two max guys while still carrying three other players that could get double what we pay.
The thing is without a Butler or other legitimate star nobody's coming here and we're stuck in mediocrity.

Overpaying for Butler isn't gonna bring you out of mediocrity
I'm bitter.

Re: K.C. Johnson - Butler deal discussed was Crowder, #3, #16
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2016, 10:17:54 PM »

Offline MBunge

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The way it is written, it could have been Ainge offering Crowder, the #3 and the #16 and being turned down by Chicago.

Mike