Rumor- Ainge wanted Noel & Lakers pick

[saltlover]

We can always revisit this trade.  Worst case scenario, we throw IT and Hunter with the future Memphis and Clippers picks for Noel.  Best case, Embiid gets hurt again and Simmons, Noel and Okafor can't play together and we get Noel or Okafor for KO, Rozier and one future first.

Mike

Atlanta balked at giving up a one-year rental of Teague for Noel, and you want to give them a younger all-star PG on a better contract, PLUS two future firsts for him? That's not a worst case scenario, that's a worse deal than the KG/Pierce trade was for Brooklyn

That's worst case, assuming Noel comes on next season and is playing great and the Sixers are winning, but Okafor, Embiid and Simmons are also playing well and Philly just has to move somebody.  And it's assuming Ainge can't sign a decent center this offseason and our lack of rim protection/rebounding continues to plague us.

Mike

It's like saying "worst case, Cavs trade Lebron and Kyrie for Chris Paul". It's so far beyond the realm of believable that it's not relevant

It's not at all unbelievable that Philly will throw enough money around to add some legitimate NBA players with Simmons.  Not all stars, but guys like Aaron Afflalo.  Now bring in a healthy Embiid and it's not hard to see them jumping up to a 25 win team that is still bad but looks promising.

And I'm not saying I'd trade IT for Noel, just that we can always revisit the trade and still outbid others teams if the market price goes up.

Mike

I'm not quite sure what you're saying, but we should never revisit any trade in which we're trading IT for Nerlens.  But I'm legitimately confused, because I don't think that trade was visited in the first place.

There are other teams with surplus young bigs on their roster, like Sacramento and Denver.  And they both have bigs I'd prefer to Noel.

[BitterJim]

We can always revisit this trade.  Worst case scenario, we throw IT and Hunter with the future Memphis and Clippers picks for Noel.  Best case, Embiid gets hurt again and Simmons, Noel and Okafor can't play together and we get Noel or Okafor for KO, Rozier and one future first.

Mike

Atlanta balked at giving up a one-year rental of Teague for Noel, and you want to give them a younger all-star PG on a better contract, PLUS two future firsts for him? That's not a worst case scenario, that's a worse deal than the KG/Pierce trade was for Brooklyn

That's worst case, assuming Noel comes on next season and is playing great and the Sixers are winning, but Okafor, Embiid and Simmons are also playing well and Philly just has to move somebody.  And it's assuming Ainge can't sign a decent center this offseason and our lack of rim protection/rebounding continues to plague us.

Mike

It's like saying "worst case, Cavs trade Lebron and Kyrie for Chris Paul". It's so far beyond the realm of believable that it's not relevant

It's not at all unbelievable that Philly will throw enough money around to add some legitimate NBA players with Simmons.  Not all stars, but guys like Aaron Afflalo.  Now bring in a healthy Embiid and it's not hard to see them jumping up to a 25 win team that is still bad but looks promising.

And I'm not saying I'd trade IT for Noel, just that we can always revisit the trade and still outbid others teams if the market price goes up.

Mike

That's like going to a government car auction and bidding $1 million for a junker just to make sure you get it.  Yay, you got it, but you gave up WAY more than it's worth.  That isn't a worst case scenario.  A worst case scenario still has to be realistic

[fantankerous]

Talk about overrated. How much have those wanting to give up major assets for Noel actually seen him play? Put him on our team, have people watch him game in and out, notice all the warts, and I would bet you'll have a lot of people changing their stance on him.

The guy is an average rebounder.  Isn't a good post defender. Has bad hands. No offensive game at all (shooing, passing, post, etc,). Bad feel for the game. Uncoordinated whenever he has do anything that involves the ball actually being in his hands. Has he even improved at all since he left Kentucky? That's a legit question.

I think people are fascinated by the fact that he looks like he should be good rather than what he actually brings to the table. That said, trading major assets would mean you're basically forced to overpay for him next summer. Unless of course you're happy trading away those assets for a 1 year rental of a marginal player.

If Noel grew up anywhere else there would be far less interest in him on this board.

[dreamgreen]

That's what I would have asked for.

[Dino Pitino]

The guy is an average rebounder.  Isn't a good post defender. Has bad hands. No offensive game at all (shooing, passing, post, etc,). Bad feel for the game. Uncoordinated whenever he has do anything that involves the ball actually being in his hands. Has he even improved at all since he left Kentucky? That's a legit question.

I think people are fascinated by the fact that he looks like he should be good rather than what he actually brings to the table. That said, trading major assets would mean you're basically forced to overpay for him next summer. Unless of course you're happy trading away those assets for a 1 year rental of a marginal player.

This is the crux of it. Some people don't know what the hell they're talking about re: Noel. It's either crap analysis of his on court value like the above. Or it's crap analysis of his market value and crap understanding of his free agency situation. I give up. It's not worth haggling over on an internet message board. People are set in their ways/biases on the subject -- already, within days -- and no amount of new information or reasoning will fix it. I rarely come to that conclusion.

Here's the solution: Wait. That's all we can do. As I see it, there are four general possibilities, and two of them are good for the Celtics. 1. Brown is good, and so is Noel, in which case there might be quibbles about team need but can be no complaints about Brown. 2. Brown is good, but Noel is not. Yay, we made the absolutely correct call and the Celtics front office can gloat about how their rivals and even their own fans were wrong. 3. Brown is not good, but Noel is. Yuck, we screwed up. 4. Brown is not good, and neither is Noel. Oh well, wouldn't have made a difference. I expect Noel to be good. I'm rooting for the first scenario. We will know who's right in, oh, two years or so.

[bogg]

Why would any impending free agent give up his ability to hit the open market by prematurely agreeing to an extension? I can't recall the last rookie to have done so.

Literally every year a crop of guys signs rookie extensions. Whether an individual player gets a good deal or a bad deal varies on a case-by-case basis, but extensions get signed every year.

Can you give me an example from this past season? I honestly do not recall one. Especially a top-ten draftee.

Anthony Davis and Damian Lillard, but if you mean non-max guys: Jonas Valanciunas, Terrence Ross, Jeremy Lamb, and Kidd-Gilchrist all did this year, if memory serves right.

Yes, non-max. (No rookie would turn down a max deal.)

MKG was coming off a serious injury. Lamb is not very good. The Raptor players both got paid big time, IIRC (Ross isn't worth his contract; JVal could well be). In all cases, the player got paid what might be perceived to be above market.

I wonder what Noel's market value is? Would the Celtics be willing to offer that via extension?

Kidd-Gilchrist didn't get hurt until after he signed the extension. You can't say rookie extensions don't happen because they don't make sense and then dismiss them when they do happen as someone getting overpaid. Some guys decide to test the market, some guys want the security, and some guys don't have a choice because their teams don't want to commit long-term money to them.

Noel's market value has a very good shot at being a max contract with so many teams set to have cap space. He'll sign a rookie extension if Boston or Philly (or whoever) offers him the max, otherwise he'll hit the market next summer and find someone to give him a max offer sheet. That's the problem inherent with giving up a ton to trade for him.

[Tr1boy]

Has this been posted?

Danny Ainge, for example, proposed swapping Boston’s No. 3 overall selection for Noel and the Sixers’ top-3 protected 2017 Lakers pick (which would be unprotected in ’18), as an NBA source heard happened, Colangelo had no choice but to decline

[loco_91]

#3 for the Lakers pick alone, sans Noel, would probably be fair. Too bad Danny couldn't swing this one, turns out not everyone is as dumb as Billy King!

[CoachBo]

This thread is actually one of the better attempts on the board to rehabilitate Ainge's image after the thud of draft night.

Not buying - at all - the "Noel is no good" theme, but it's a respectable try, even though I suspect you guys would have trashed Wilt Chamberlain had he been available too.

In Danny We Trust, and all that.

The thud of free agency promises to be every bit as entertaining, I suspect.

[crimson_stallion]

Good. The other deal was horrendous. Who wants a D leaguer and 2 late first round picks? What exactly are the C's going to do with those?

The story on the main page called Noel/Covington/24/26 as a "kings ransom". I say hardly, it's still basically a one-year rental of Noel.

Fixed that.

I believe Noel would have been a restricted free agent once his rookie deal expired, in which case it would not have been a rental at all.  Boston would have had control over Noel's free agency and could match any offer and guarantee he'd be back in green.

[crimson_stallion]

Can't blame him for asking.  Can't blame Philly for turning it down.

I actually agree with you 100% there.

If I were the Sixers, I wouldn't do that deal.  That would be incredibly one-sided in Boston's favour - perhaps Ainge thought that Philly were so desperate for Dunn that they would be willing to make a massive overpay in order to get him...if so, then I guess they called his bluff.

[hwangjini_1]

This thread is actually one of the better attempts on the board to rehabilitate Ainge's image after the thud of draft night.

Not buying - at all - the "Noel is no good" theme, but it's a respectable try, even though I suspect you guys would have trashed Wilt Chamberlain had he been available too.

In Danny We Trust, and all that.

The thud of free agency promises to be every bit as entertaining, I suspect.

I have no idea why you consistently refuse to learn from others here and continue to be unrelentingly negative. You have long passed over the border and entered to world of internet troll. your posts rarelyadd something I'd substance and always act as a downer. Provide variety please.

CB, please at least reflect the stats, insights,  ideas of others instead of gain saying. It would make the board a better place and add to the give and take so we all can learn and enjoy.

Thank you.

[Moranis]

Can't blame him for asking.  Can't blame Philly for turning it down.

I actually agree with you 100% there.

If I were the Sixers, I wouldn't do that deal.  That would be incredibly one-sided in Boston's favour - perhaps Ainge thought that Philly were so desperate for Dunn that they would be willing to make a massive overpay in order to get him...if so, then I guess they called his bluff.

It could have been or the Lakers might be a good team and make the playoffs which makes it a mid 1st round pick and Noel.  Until free agency happens there is no real way to know how good the Lakers will be.  I mean they could land DeRozan and a couple of other players in DeRozan's ilk and put together a pretty nice team and still have all the young players (or maybe they trade some of the young guys for a guy like Cousins).  The Lakers pick has as much uncertainty as the Nets pick.  It could be great or it could be another blah level pick.

[BitterJim]

This thread is actually one of the better attempts on the board to rehabilitate Ainge's image after the thud of draft night.

Not buying - at all - the "Noel is no good" theme, but it's a respectable try, even though I suspect you guys would have trashed Wilt Chamberlain had he been available too.

In Danny We Trust, and all that.

The thud of free agency promises to be every bit as entertaining, I suspect.

I have no idea why you consistently refuse to learn from others here and continue to be unrelentingly negative. You have long passed over the border and entered to world of internet troll. your posts rarelyadd something I'd substance and always act as a downer. Provide variety please.

CB, please at least reflect the stats, insights,  ideas of others instead of gain saying. It would make the board a better place and add to the give and take so we all can learn and enjoy.

Thank you.

I don't know, I for one am glad that He is here to give us all His insight.  Who else would shine light on the fact that we are all brainwashed fools, chained to Ainge by our own feeble-mindedness? He will show us the path to true basketball enlightenment, since He is the only one to see the folly of our ways!

[moiso]

This thread is actually one of the better attempts on the board to rehabilitate Ainge's image after the thud of draft night.

Not buying - at all - the "Noel is no good" theme, but it's a respectable try, even though I suspect you guys would have trashed Wilt Chamberlain had he been available too.

In Danny We Trust, and all that.

The thud of free agency promises to be every bit as entertaining, I suspect.

I have no idea why you consistently refuse to learn from others here and continue to be unrelentingly negative. You have long passed over the border and entered to world of internet troll. your posts rarelyadd something I'd substance and always act as a downer. Provide variety please.

CB, please at least reflect the stats, insights,  ideas of others instead of gain saying. It would make the board a better place and add to the give and take so we all can learn and enjoy.

Thank you.

I always enjoy your posts.  Another TP.