Herald on Danny playing hardball

[Ilikesports17]

hold the team accountable for failing to live up to its promises.

This isn't like your mother telling you she'll get you ice cream if you're a good boy and then forgetting about it.

Ainge, like every other GM, is trying to do the best job he can.  He makes mistakes, like every other GM, and if this team had sucked for years because of those mistakes, it would be entirely appropriate to rip him a new one.  On Ainge's resume, however, is a championship, another trip to the Finals, multiple playoff appearances and one of the fastest rebuilds anyone has ever seen.

How much is there to complain about?

Mike

Exactly. People on here have unrealistic expectations. And I'm not even sure what those expectations are really. Jimmy Butler and Nerlens Noel aren't walking through that door!

IDK about yall, but if 10 year old me ever tried to "hold [my mother] accountable" it would have gone really poorly for me.

[ZoneD]

hold the team accountable for failing to live up to its promises.

This isn't like your mother telling you she'll get you ice cream if you're a good boy and then forgetting about it.

Ainge, like every other GM, is trying to do the best job he can.  He makes mistakes, like every other GM, and if this team had sucked for years because of those mistakes, it would be entirely appropriate to rip him a new one.  On Ainge's resume, however, is a championship, another trip to the Finals, multiple playoff appearances and one of the fastest rebuilds anyone has ever seen.

How much is there to complain about?

Mike

Exactly. People on here have unrealistic expectations. And I'm not even sure what those expectations are really. Jimmy Butler and Nerlens Noel aren't walking through that door!

those were literally the expectations.

I get that but then what? We contend for years to come? I'm not sure that Jimmy Butler and Nerlens Noel put us over the top. Also, as many people have pointed out, we don't know that those trades were available. We only know that the media hyped it up.

[Scintan]

The counter here would be that trades are never easy. Ainge shouldnt be satisfied with losing deals just because his "cards" are valuable enough to bring in big fish without cashing in full value.

As long as the Cs continue to improve their on court product while their biggest assets remain uncashed (cap space and now Brooklyn '17) the "homer argument" will still hold water.

I mean we won 48 games. there is some talent there for sure. that pick will be high. high picks cant be discounted and cap space is the ultimate wildcard. The biggest FA since Lebron James has us in his top 6.

Starting with the obvious note that signing Durant would cure many ills, and then going from there:

You point to the notion that trades aren't easy to defend the inactivity, yet people rave about Ainge and trades.  Again, and this is my point, there is a disconnect.  Danny, and the team more generally, is given almost 100% credit for everything that goes right, and almost 0% blame for anything that goes wrong (and I get that there are people who reverse that).  That doesn't further discussion.  We can't combine "Ainge is an awesome trader!" with "Ainge couldn't find any trade that he could live with, even though a bunch of other teams did, so we can't blame Danny, because it was pure coincidence that it worked out that way, for x number of years in a row" and remain intellectually honest.

Should they have made a trade because there actually was one worth making?  I don't know.  You don't know.  Nobody on this board knows, because we don't actually know, for certain, what was, and could have been, on the table.  All we do know is that this is the team where the owner insists the team doesn't want to wait for a long rebuild, and has promised "fireworks" in the past, yet hasn't been able to find the big deal, either via trade or FA, in recent offseasons.  This discontent is a self-inflicted wound for the Celtics.  Most fans would probably have been content to wait on a rebuild through the draft had Wyc & Co. just said that such was the plan.

[kraidstar]

The counter here would be that trades are never easy. Ainge shouldnt be satisfied with losing deals just because his "cards" are valuable enough to bring in big fish without cashing in full value.

As long as the Cs continue to improve their on court product while their biggest assets remain uncashed (cap space and now Brooklyn '17) the "homer argument" will still hold water.

I mean we won 48 games. there is some talent there for sure. that pick will be high. high picks cant be discounted and cap space is the ultimate wildcard. The biggest FA since Lebron James has us in his top 6.

Starting with the obvious note that signing Durant would cure many ills, and then going from there:

You point to the notion that trades aren't easy to defend the inactivity, yet people rave about Ainge and trades.  Again, and this is my point, there is a disconnect.  Danny, and the team more generally, is given almost 100% credit for everything that goes right, and almost 0% blame for anything that goes wrong (and I get that there are people who reverse that).  That doesn't further discussion.  We can't combine "Ainge is an awesome trader!" with "Ainge couldn't find any trade that he could live with, even though a bunch of other teams did, so we can't blame Danny, because it was pure coincidence that it worked out that way, for x number of years in a row" and remain intellectually honest.

Should they have made a trade because there actually was one worth making?  I don't know.  You don't know.  Nobody on this board knows, because we don't actually know, for certain, what was, and could have been, on the table.  All we do know is that this is the team where the owner insists the team doesn't want to wait for a long rebuild, and has promised "fireworks" in the past, yet hasn't been able to find the big deal, either via trade or FA, in recent offseasons.  This discontent is a self-inflicted wound for the Celtics.  Most fans would probably have been content to wait on a rebuild through the draft had Wyc & Co. just said that such was the plan.

i agree that wyc's comments have backfired, and are part of the reason that some fans are unhappy. selling tickets by setting false expectations is not a good idea. he could spare us the "rah rah" stuff and focus on running the team. the red sox have made similar errors, and it often comes back to bite them.

as for your point about "intellectual honesty," i'm not sure i understand. no trades were made by the c's, good or bad. trades were discussed. otherwise all we know is that ainge didn't like what was offered or he would have pulled the trigger. and because we don't know the definite terms, we don't know if those were good or bad decisions. is anyone saying otherwise? it seems most posters either trust ainge's judgment on that matter or they don't, but i don't see any intellectual dishonesty here, as no-one is claiming to know for sure what the terms of the proposed trades were. there have been reactions to rumors and fan proposals (like okafor for #3), but nothing definite.

if butler or middleton gets traded for a bag of chips then there will be reason to complain. if they get traded for some obscene amount of assets, like the ibaka/oladipo deal (or worse), then there will be reason for relief. at this point all we know is that the teams involved likely viewed their assets as more valuable than the other team did.

[Ilikesports17]

The counter here would be that trades are never easy. Ainge shouldnt be satisfied with losing deals just because his "cards" are valuable enough to bring in big fish without cashing in full value.

As long as the Cs continue to improve their on court product while their biggest assets remain uncashed (cap space and now Brooklyn '17) the "homer argument" will still hold water.

I mean we won 48 games. there is some talent there for sure. that pick will be high. high picks cant be discounted and cap space is the ultimate wildcard. The biggest FA since Lebron James has us in his top 6.

Starting with the obvious note that signing Durant would cure many ills, and then going from there:

You point to the notion that trades aren't easy to defend the inactivity, yet people rave about Ainge and trades.  Again, and this is my point, there is a disconnect.  Danny, and the team more generally, is given almost 100% credit for everything that goes right, and almost 0% blame for anything that goes wrong (and I get that there are people who reverse that).  That doesn't further discussion.  We can't combine "Ainge is an awesome trader!" with "Ainge couldn't find any trade that he could live with, even though a bunch of other teams did, so we can't blame Danny, because it was pure coincidence that it worked out that way, for x number of years in a row" and remain intellectually honest.

Should they have made a trade because there actually was one worth making?  I don't know.  You don't know.  Nobody on this board knows, because we don't actually know, for certain, what was, and could have been, on the table.  All we do know is that this is the team where the owner insists the team doesn't want to wait for a long rebuild, and has promised "fireworks" in the past, yet hasn't been able to find the big deal, either via trade or FA, in recent offseasons. This discontent is a self-inflicted wound for the Celtics.  Most fans would probably have been content to wait on a rebuild through the draft had Wyc & Co. just said that such was the plan.

theres where the Ainge trust comes in. In the last 3 years Ainge has made tons of trades and won nearly every one even if they dont appear to be big wins at the time. The volume and quality of the trades leads me to believe that Ainge would have pulled the trigger were the right trade available. Also, other teams made moves, but no big ones. I mean Teague, Thad Young, Ibaka, and Oladipo are all nice players, but come on. none of those guys move the needle. The big assets discussed coming into draft night Okafor, Butler, Noel all stayed put. Its not like Danny sat on the sideline while big pieces moved around.

I trust ainge to make the right trades and pass up the wrong ones. You presumably dont and thats fine.

Its obviously really difficult to evaluate a guy based on the trades he failed to make, but unless another bigtime player is moved for a price that we concievably could have matched Im not sure you can really blame Ainge, primarily because he has done such a good job in the past.

Again, this is not Billy King who fans are blindly trusting. This is a really good GM.

[kozlodoev]

Again, this is not Billy King who fans are blindly trusting. This is a really good GM.

There will always be errors on judgement though. The question is which side is it better to err on.

[MBunge]

This discontent is a self-inflicted wound for the Celtics.  Most fans would probably have been content to wait on a rebuild through the draft had Wyc & Co. just said that such was the plan.

Yes, because people would be perfectly content if Wyc and Ainge did nothing but mouth pablum and generic platitudes, especially coming off a 25 win season like we were when Wyc made the "fireworks" comment.

Mike

[Big333223]

Also, doesnt the fact that Ainge has been able to pull,off more trades in the last 3 years than any other GM in the league pretty much render this whole concept that he is just trying to rip people off moot? If all he was doing was trying to rip people off then how did he get so many other GMs to make deals with him?

Exactly.  The guy has earned the nickname "trader Danny".  You don't earn that nickname by only ripping off your opponents.

No one seems to want to address this because it ends the entire conversation.

If Danny is so difficult to work with that other teams don't want to deal with him, who, exactly, has been doing all of these deals with him?  Has any GM completed more trades in the last 10 years than Ainge? How about the last 4 years? I doubt it.

[kraidstar]

This discontent is a self-inflicted wound for the Celtics.  Most fans would probably have been content to wait on a rebuild through the draft had Wyc & Co. just said that such was the plan.

Yes, because people would be perfectly content if Wyc and Ainge did nothing but mouth pablum and generic platitudes, especially coming off a 25 win season like we were when Wyc made the "fireworks" comment.

Mike

Well, I don't expect and doom and gloom from him. But doesn't it sound a little entitled that a fanbase can't handle one bad season after many years of contention?

[furball]

All I know is I am sure Phoenix fans are really glad their GM didn't overvalue IT and didn't try to win that trade.  and Dallas fans must be jumping for joy that their GM didn't over value Crowder and they got that awesome year of Rondo. 

[IDreamCeltics]

The picture was the only valuable piece of information in that sorry excuse for an article. 

Stevens is talking and all seven other guys in the picture are completely focused on him.  The Celtics' key to victory is the respect that guy commands when he speaks.

[timpiker]

I think half you people must suck on Felger's toes or something.

[Beat LA]

I think half you people must suck on Felger's toes or something.

Come on, man, I'm about to have dinner .