Author Topic: Herald on Danny playing hardball  (Read 10343 times)

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Herald on Danny playing hardball
« on: June 24, 2016, 06:58:55 PM »

Offline alldaboston

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http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/2016/06/bulpett_celtics_need_more_time_before_fans_get_too_disappointed

Pretty interesting takes from those execs on Danny playing hardball and how they felt "insulted". Wonder if Danny going for the kill every time is backfiring.
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: Herald on Danny playing hardball
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2016, 07:02:38 PM »

Offline Thruthelookingglass

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http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/2016/06/bulpett_celtics_need_more_time_before_fans_get_too_disappointed

Pretty interesting takes from those execs on Danny playing hardball and how they felt "insulted". Wonder if Danny going for the kill every time is backfiring.

Maybe the Grizzlies trade was Danny's response.

Re: Herald on Danny playing hardball
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2016, 07:03:14 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Oh noooooo! You can't put any stock into any of this! It's all just rumor and speculation! You would be a negative fool to believe any of this. Believe Danny and Wyc blindly no matter what forever.

Re: Herald on Danny playing hardball
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2016, 07:05:21 PM »

Online hpantazo

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From that article:

"We repeat that such comments are coming from a few veteran NBA people who are also quite competitive in their own right. Their statements should thus be viewed in that perspective.

And without knowing the specifics on how certain negotiations proceeded (you’re almost always going to get different accounts from the two parties), it’s impossible to judge who’s correct -- or closer to it."

Re: Herald on Danny playing hardball
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2016, 07:05:27 PM »

Offline CelticSooner

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Fleeced one too many teams. Unfortunately GM's aren't as dumb as they used to be. RIP Billy King.

Edit: Rob Hennigan might be an exception to the rule.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2016, 07:13:54 PM by CelticSooner »

Re: Herald on Danny playing hardball
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2016, 07:07:56 PM »

Online jpotter33

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"But from talking to people around the league, the feeling is that Ainge’s inner drive may have cost him. To be fair, this is obviously coming from execs who were unable to get something done with the Celtics president of basketball operations, but some think he may have overplayed his hand.

We’re told that, beyond just being prepared and having strong comebacks to different versions of trades, Ainge would move the finish line while one area was being explored. It was said he was looking for a clear kill, rather than simply a deal that would be good for both sides.

It makes you wary of doing business with Boston, because you get the feeling they’re always trying to put one over on you,” said one source. “I’m sure that’s not always the case, but it can make things hard.”

We repeat that such comments are coming from a few veteran NBA people who are also quite competitive in their own right. Their statements should thus be viewed in that perspective.

And without knowing the specifics on how certain negotiations proceeded (you’re almost always going to get different accounts from the two parties), it’s impossible to judge who’s correct -- or closer to it.

What’s apparent is that Danny Ainge didn’t find an available trade that he liked, and he decided that the possibility of other moves this summer and next year outweighed what was on the table."

Freaking TP to you for this find, man. That's what some of us have been arguing on here for the last year or so, or at least since the trade deadline.

Wilbon was even talking about it on PTI today. You don't have to fleece the opposing team on every trade. There's a difference between losing a trade and making a good deal for both sides, and further there's a difference between making a good deal for both sides and fleecing another team. Danny ALWAYS expects to fleece another team. His expectations are way too high to pan out on every single trade.

I know Danny values flexibility and the possible other moves we might make, but possibilities and flexibility is what we've had for three years now and we're still without a game-changing star.

Re: Herald on Danny playing hardball
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2016, 07:09:25 PM »

Online jpotter33

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Oh noooooo! You can't put any stock into any of this! It's all just rumor and speculation! You would be a negative fool to believe any of this. Believe Danny and Wyc blindly no matter what forever.

Look below your post lol  ::) Of course just that quote is posted instead of the other part that goes against his argument. There's a word for that - confirmation bias.

Re: Herald on Danny playing hardball
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2016, 07:12:23 PM »

Offline Chief Macho

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his prior reputation has rendered him ineffective.  in most businesses this is a good time to change.

it's too bad he wouldn't even surrender some of these unneeded picks in an effort to build good will.

Re: Herald on Danny playing hardball
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2016, 07:13:06 PM »

Offline Chief

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"But from talking to people around the league, the feeling is that Ainge’s inner drive may have cost him. To be fair, this is obviously coming from execs who were unable to get something done with the Celtics president of basketball operations, but some think he may have overplayed his hand.

We’re told that, beyond just being prepared and having strong comebacks to different versions of trades, Ainge would move the finish line while one area was being explored. It was said he was looking for a clear kill, rather than simply a deal that would be good for both sides.

It makes you wary of doing business with Boston, because you get the feeling they’re always trying to put one over on you,” said one source. “I’m sure that’s not always the case, but it can make things hard.”

We repeat that such comments are coming from a few veteran NBA people who are also quite competitive in their own right. Their statements should thus be viewed in that perspective.

And without knowing the specifics on how certain negotiations proceeded (you’re almost always going to get different accounts from the two parties), it’s impossible to judge who’s correct -- or closer to it.

What’s apparent is that Danny Ainge didn’t find an available trade that he liked, and he decided that the possibility of other moves this summer and next year outweighed what was on the table."

Freaking TP to you for this find, man. That's what some of us have been arguing on here for the last year or so, or at least since the trade deadline.

Wilbon was even talking about it on PTI today. You don't have to fleece the opposing team on every trade. There's a difference between losing a trade and making a good deal for both sides, and further there's a difference between making a good deal for both sides and fleecing another team. Danny ALWAYS expects to fleece another team. His expectations are way too high to pan out on every single trade.

I know Danny values flexibility and the possible other moves we might make, but possibilities and flexibility is what we've had for three years now and we're still without a game-changing star.

Tp
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Larry Bird

Re: Herald on Danny playing hardball
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2016, 07:15:07 PM »

Offline 35Lewis

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Wow, GM's whining now too.  Who really cares? Unless you are really willing to put your name behind the comment then it's just sour grapes.  These guys wanted a guy and didn't get it and now they are mad but they don't want to burn the bridge in case they need Danny. 

also, when you are trading an all-star you almost never get a trade that is good for both sides so that's just absurd.

Re: Herald on Danny playing hardball
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2016, 07:15:29 PM »

Offline redrobot

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Did he fleece Memphis for their super protected future Clippers pick? Was he trying to fleece Charlotte offering 4 picks for Justice Winslow last year?

Maybe its more the case that most GMs value their assets much more than other GMs do, and it ends up being hard to make any deal get done.

Re: Herald on Danny playing hardball
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2016, 07:17:17 PM »

Online jpotter33

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"But from talking to people around the league, the feeling is that Ainge’s inner drive may have cost him. To be fair, this is obviously coming from execs who were unable to get something done with the Celtics president of basketball operations, but some think he may have overplayed his hand.

We’re told that, beyond just being prepared and having strong comebacks to different versions of trades, Ainge would move the finish line while one area was being explored. It was said he was looking for a clear kill, rather than simply a deal that would be good for both sides.

It makes you wary of doing business with Boston, because you get the feeling they’re always trying to put one over on you,” said one source. “I’m sure that’s not always the case, but it can make things hard.”

We repeat that such comments are coming from a few veteran NBA people who are also quite competitive in their own right. Their statements should thus be viewed in that perspective.

And without knowing the specifics on how certain negotiations proceeded (you’re almost always going to get different accounts from the two parties), it’s impossible to judge who’s correct -- or closer to it.

What’s apparent is that Danny Ainge didn’t find an available trade that he liked, and he decided that the possibility of other moves this summer and next year outweighed what was on the table."

Freaking TP to you for this find, man. That's what some of us have been arguing on here for the last year or so, or at least since the trade deadline.

Wilbon was even talking about it on PTI today. You don't have to fleece the opposing team on every trade. There's a difference between losing a trade and making a good deal for both sides, and further there's a difference between making a good deal for both sides and fleecing another team. Danny ALWAYS expects to fleece another team. His expectations are way too high to pan out on every single trade.

I know Danny values flexibility and the possible other moves we might make, but possibilities and flexibility is what we've had for three years now and we're still without a game-changing star.

Tp

I mean, this is a concept that we've heard for several years about Danny, i.e. he overplays his hand and plays hardball too much. Yet, there are still Danny apologists out there that think we shouldn't make any move unless it's a downright fleecing of the opponent. Newsflash, this isn't realistic, and you have to give up some value to get value in return.

Re: Herald on Danny playing hardball
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2016, 07:43:14 PM »

Offline Fred Roberts

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Danny & co surely drive a hard bargain, but they're not dummies.

The alternative worst case was using the picks. If the front office really liked the available players, it gave them more bargaining power. If they hated the picks, they'd have pushed more chips to do a deal.

If Danny didn't like the available players he could draft, and/or if he truly felt they needed to halve their number of draft picks, he'd have pushed a trade through.

C's could have done better last night, but they did pretty well.

Re: Herald on Danny playing hardball
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2016, 07:44:44 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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Except when both the Brooklyn and Dallas trades were first done everyone thought Ainge didn't get nearly enough. Bill Simmons thought the pierce and kg deal was awful especially bc we took back Gerald Wallace.

No one thought the Brooklyn picks would be good. No one thought the rondo pick would be good. Few ppl thought crowder was capable of being a starter. And that's all understandable bc almost no one saw rondo and Carlisle imploding. So many ppl thought made Dallas a contender. Lots of ppl thought Brooklyn had a team to contend for a few seasons.


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Re: Herald on Danny playing hardball
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2016, 08:36:57 PM »

Offline saltlover

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There's a lot of ridiculousness here today.  A lot.

1) It's been said for awhile that we need to start consolidating assets.  And yet, the supposed offer that has many riled up is one in which we were getting four things for one thing.  If we were giving away just a single thing, and it was a fair trade, then that means our one thing was the best asset.  And that would have been the opposite of consolidation, and therefore the opposite of what the majority of this forum has been demanding for months.

2) If our pick was the best asset, then maybe Noel isn't quite the hot stuff some here think he is.  Another rumored offer was Teague for Noel.  That didn't happen either -- instead Teague went for pick #12.  The Teague-for-Noel rumor also was accompanied by sub-rumors that Atlanta needed something extra in the deal.  In that case, since Teague ended up going for #12, we can determine that Atlanta values Noel at less than the #12 pick.

3) Intransigence is a 2-way street.  This article suggests that Danny was asking for too much.  However, Philly didn't make a trade last night either.  They still have their three bigs who can't play together, and they just drafted a fourth who might not be able to play with any of them either.  In addition to the Teague rumors, and the Celtics rumors, there were also rumors that they'd been calling most of the league to make a trade.  And again, none was made.  Is Danny tough to trade with? Sure.  But based on their lack of success, it seems like Philly was also having a tough time finding common ground.

4) Would you rather have Danny Ainge, who's tough to deal with, or Billy King, who gets deals done?  GMs who are easy to trade with are easy for a reason.  Billy King was easy.  I don't want Billy King.