Herald on Danny playing hardball

[CoachBo]

I think he's looking past trades right now and focusing on FA signings. He'll probably address the trade situation after he sees what he can get with FAs. He has kept salary clear for FAs. He can always get more "flexible" with trades later, if he has to. That's the way I read it.

Or trying to figure out the way to explain no free agent signings.

Because he's not going to get Kevin Durant.

[slamtheking]

Easy answer:

Jaylen Brown has a multitude of flaws - shooting, defense, turnovers, ball handling. At best, he is a long term project.

And that's all we ended up with for a supposedly valuable asset.

It isn't the worst pick Ainge could have made at 3. That would have been the Euromistake.

But drafting Dunn and swapping him to Philly was CLEARLY a better play for the long-term future of the Celtics. Zero question in my mind about it. Noel is a New Englander, and given that the Durant-to-Boston things are a figment of Green Team imaginations, signing him long-term isn't a reach at all.

Ainge definitely has a reputation around the league of "I fleece you or I don't deal" and it's hurting the franchise. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a deal that improves both clubs, and he needs to get that through his thick head.

But as this board evidences, there's still a majority who buy the perpetual "Wait until next year" you're being fed. I doubt anything will change until the credibility of that canard erodes further. In the meantime, there are going to be an awful lot of next years. Clark should save his front page post and just repost it right before July 4 for the next several years.

you're making the assumption that once Dunn was in hand that an equitable deal could be made between Boston and Philly when one could not be ironed out in the months leading up to the draft.  I'm not seeing how a deal would now be inevitable when Philly now has us at a disadvantage with too many guards.

If you have something that will back that statement up where an equitable (or advantageous to us) trade was a certainty, please share.  if the position was to keep Dunn and move Smart instead, I could understand that but that's not what you're proposing.

Just to tack on to this -- your binky has always been Okafor, not Noel, from Philly.  I don't recall an offer on the table on draft night that involved Okafor.  Are you now dumping your requirement that players have offensive skills so that a trade could be made or was there some unreported deal for Okafor that you haven't shared with anyone here?

[MBunge]

The idea that Ainge needs to "win" every trade is demolished when looking at the what he gave up to bring Antoine back to Boston and the collection of bupkis he got for trading him to Miami.

I'm sure other GMs are irritated with Ainge because he holds all the cards right now, they know it and Ainge knows they know it.

Mike

[elcotte]

Easy answer:

Jaylen Brown has a multitude of flaws - shooting, defense, turnovers, ball handling. At best, he is a long term project.

And that's all we ended up with for a supposedly valuable asset.

It isn't the worst pick Ainge could have made at 3. That would have been the Euromistake.

But drafting Dunn and swapping him to Philly was CLEARLY a better play for the long-term future of the Celtics. Zero question in my mind about it. Noel is a New Englander, and given that the Durant-to-Boston things are a figment of Green Team imaginations, signing him long-term isn't a reach at all.

Ainge definitely has a reputation around the league of "I fleece you or I don't deal" and it's hurting the franchise. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a deal that improves both clubs, and he needs to get that through his thick head.

But as this board evidences, there's still a majority who buy the perpetual "Wait until next year" you're being fed. I doubt anything will change until the credibility of that canard erodes further. In the meantime, there are going to be an awful lot of next years. Clark should save his front page post and just repost it right before July 4 for the next several years.

Are you saying that Noel isn't flawed? They're all flawed. Simmons is flawed...he can't shoot; Ingram can't gain weight; Murray is slow defensively, etc. etc. etc.
Noel is a New Englander.....Great let's sign him as a free agent next year.
And Durant wouldn't waste his time if he didn't want to listen to the Celtics pitch.  How do you know what motivates him?
It's not about wait until next year....it's about being able to add assets at an acceptable cost that will improve the team. And whether you know it or not, the team has been improving.
Glad you're not the GM....you'd trade #3 or Jaylen Brown....however you want to look at it....for a guy who is going to be a free agent in one year. Great move.

[jambr380]

The idea that Ainge needs to "win" every trade is demolished when looking at the what he gave up to bring Antoine back to Boston and the collection of bupkis he got for trading him to Miami.

I'm sure other GMs are irritated with Ainge because he holds all the cards right now, they know it and Ainge knows they know it.

Mike

Not to mention the original Antoine trade was clearly the worst of Ainge's tenure - five years of way overpaid, perma-injured Raef Lafrentz almost ruined this franchise until he was able to acquire one less year of Ratliff (and Telfair, while giving up Roy/Foye - yikes!) and then using Ratliff to match salaries in the KG deal.

Anyway, since then, Ainge has been wonderful with his trades - pretty much all of them. I like Brown - I liked Dunn more - but, like everybody else, I wanted an impact trade now. Who knows how FA will work out? It could be amazing.

[RIPRED]

Did he fleece Memphis for their super protected future Clippers pick? Was he trying to fleece Charlotte offering 4 picks for Justice Winslow last year?

Maybe its more the case that most GMs value their assets much more than other GMs do, and it ends up being hard to make any deal get done.

I think you're on to something.

I've heard multiple people say recently that Danny failed to acquire Justice Winslow last year. That may be true, but Charlotte absolutely should have taken that godfather 4 pick offer, and I'm glad they didn't. How upset would we all be if we traded ALL the Nets picks for freaking Justice Winslow?! He's a nice player, but I'd rather have Jaylen plus whatever we end up getting with the other picks. I think we all need to remember that rebuilding isn't always as easy as it was in '07.

[chambers]

The idea that Ainge needs to "win" every trade is demolished when looking at the what he gave up to bring Antoine back to Boston and the collection of bupkis he got for trading him to Miami.

I'm sure other GMs are irritated with Ainge because he holds all the cards right now, they know it and Ainge knows they know it.

Mike

+1

TP

[DarkAzcura]

Almost every trade Ainge has made in the last ten years has initially looked like a loss to the Celtics' side of things except for the KG trade. Even the KG trade had some vocal negative opinions going against it, though, it was a minority.

Walker deal way back when? People wanted Ainge fired instantly, lol, even though he just got the job. Years later, it is looked at as good/fine value.

#7 pick for Telfair, Ratliff? Even though we used Ratliff's contract to get KG, this was a clear win for Portland from a value standpoint. They ended up with Brandon Roy. I can't even say Ainge won this in retrospect honestly unless you truly believe the KG trade would have never happened without Ratliff's contract.

#5 for Ray? Everyone HATED that deal when it happened. The KG deal made it fine in retrospect, but everyone thought the #5 pick was one of the main assets in a potential KG deal so when it was dealt for Ray, things got heated around here, and Boston was laughed at nationally.

Perkins for Green? Again, a lot thought we lost this deal, or at worst it was even and fit the needs of both teams.

KG/Pierce for BKN treasure? Another deal that people thought we lost. There were rumors that we almost got Jordan AND Bledsoe, so when we ended up with Wallace and 4 draft picks, a lot of people wanted to roll Ainge's head.

Rondo/Powell for Crowder/DAL pick/Wright/Nelson? People absolutely hated this deal, and Boston was laughed at nationally again. "If that's all you could get, why didn't you trade him earlier?!" was a common question asked back when the deal was made.

All of these deals had something in common. Boston was almost always seen as the winner in hindsight, but in the moment, they were almost always seen as losers. I'm not sure how that is Ainge trying to "fleece" anyone. It sounds like Ainge just knows how to value other teams' assets than the other team themselves, which may be really scary to opposing GMs.

The only deal where it was absolutely clear Ainge fleeced a team at the moment the deal occurred was the deal for IT. Ainge took advantage of his former pupil who completely mismanaged the guard rotation.

Even last summer, we were going to give up one of the BKN picks, 15, 16, and another first rounder or early second rounder for the 9th or 10th pick in a draft. That's insane value. No fleecing there at all, yet a few days after the 2015 draft, Cho came out and said (paraphrasing), "if a team is so willing to trade all those picks, is it really that great of a deal for us? is it really as much of a no-brainer?" IMO, it always sounded like a GM who was just scared to make a deal and overthinking the fact that Ainge almost always retrospectively wins trades.

The KG trade was definitely a win for both sides no matter how much people want to change that in hindsight. Minny received a 20/10 big man who was 22 years old for an aging Garnett who they had no shot at rebuilding around any time soon. If they played their cards right, they could have had a core of Curry, Rubio, Love, and Jefferson within two years of trading KG. They messed up all by themselves.

[alldaboston]

To all the Danny haters who wanted a trade: what good would Noel do for this team? I don't know if you watched the playoffs, but we had struggles scoring. Noel is a nonfactor offensively, and while his defense is good, at some point you need to score the ball to win games. With Jaylen there is a legit possibility he can develop into a 2 way menace. He can get to the line at will, he has the tools to play great defense. If you think Noel would push this team to the ECF (as one poster insinuated), then you're delusional. And what is the fascination with the fact that he's from New England? What good does that do for our basketball results?

Please, be rational sometimes. A Butler trade was not possible, unless you wanted to gut our entire team to get him. And a trade for Noel would be a step backwards.

[nickagneta]

So now fans are mad at Ainge because he didnt demand the absolute best value for the assets he so carefully accrued? And the anger stems from some overcompetitive rival GMs saying Ainge tried to rip them off?

I bet one of the GMs complaining to Bulpett about Danny trying to rip him off is Michael Jordan. I hear MJ is still miffed at Danny for only offering him 4 first rounders and 2 second rounders for his top 10 pick last year.7

[RIPRED]

The idea that Ainge needs to "win" every trade is demolished when looking at the what he gave up to bring Antoine back to Boston and the collection of bupkis he got for trading him to Miami.

I'm sure other GMs are irritated with Ainge because he holds all the cards right now, they know it and Ainge knows they know it.

Mike

I'd add that a lot of Ainge "winning" trades is revisionist history. Nobody was celebrating when the 2015 trade deadline came and went and all we had to show for it was IT, JJ, and Datome. Looking back on it, a first and Thornton for IT is a clear win (an absolute massacre if you will), but it didn't really move the needle at the time. As for JJ, he has turned into a serviceable role player for Boston, but nobody expected anything from him when he first got to Boston.

[dannyboy35]

All I need to know is it's from a Boston paper. The Boston media doesn't know jack about hoops.

[Moranis]

To all the Danny haters who wanted a trade: what good would Noel do for this team? I don't know if you watched the playoffs, but we had struggles scoring. Noel is a nonfactor offensively, and while his defense is good, at some point you need to score the ball to win games. With Jaylen there is a legit possibility he can develop into a 2 way menace. He can get to the line at will, he has the tools to play great defense. If you think Noel would push this team to the ECF (as one poster insinuated), then you're delusional. And what is the fascination with the fact that he's from New England? What good does that do for our basketball results?

Please, be rational sometimes. A Butler trade was not possible, unless you wanted to gut our entire team to get him. And a trade for Noel would be a step backwards.

I think Noel could have been a difference maker defensively and on the boards.  The kind of defensive presence that changes outcomes of games.  Yes, he isn't going to score, but Noel allows you to play a guy like Olynyk a lot more because he can cover for him defensively. 

And don't forget Covington.  He will be a better all around player, including offensively, than Brown will for at least next season if not beyond.  Covington wasn't just some thrown in.

[GratefulCs]

Easy answer:

Jaylen Brown has a multitude of flaws - shooting, defense, turnovers, ball handling. At best, he is a long term project.

And that's all we ended up with for a supposedly valuable asset.

It isn't the worst pick Ainge could have made at 3. That would have been the Euromistake.

But drafting Dunn and swapping him to Philly was CLEARLY a better play for the long-term future of the Celtics. Zero question in my mind about it. Noel is a New Englander, and given that the Durant-to-Boston things are a figment of Green Team imaginations, signing him long-term isn't a reach at all.

Ainge definitely has a reputation around the league of "I fleece you or I don't deal" and it's hurting the franchise. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a deal that improves both clubs, and he needs to get that through his thick head.

But as this board evidences, there's still a majority who buy the perpetual "Wait until next year" you're being fed. I doubt anything will change until the credibility of that canard erodes further. In the meantime, there are going to be an awful lot of next years. Clark should save his front page post and just repost it right before July 4 for the next several years.

coach bo with the easy answer!

6 years before jb's prime

[nickagneta]

Also, doesnt the fact that Ainge has been able to pull,off more trades in the last 3 years than any other GM in the league pretty much render this whole concept that he is just trying to rip people off moot? If all he was doing was trying to rip people off then how did he get so many other GMs to make deals with him?