The Official 2016-2017 Brooklyn Nets Season Watch Thread (20-62, #1)

[Granath]

Lopez will truely be a one man team this year.

I fear Lin could be a fly in the ping pong balls ointment.

Lin's on his 6th team in 6 years for a reason and that's not because he's a stud.

[celticsclay]

Lopez will truely be a one man team this year.

I fear Lin could be a fly in the ping pong balls ointment.

Lin's on his 6th team in 6 years for a reason and that's not because he's a stud.

he is best served in the role he was in last year, offense against bench units. Ask him to do more than that (which the nets are) and it is trouble.

[LarBrd33]

So a couple years ago the Nets team that made the playoffs had the following three players other than Lopez receive the most amount of minutes:

Joe Johnson - 14.4 points, 4.8 rebounds, 3.7 assists with 44%/46%/80% shooting in 34.9mpg
Jarret Jack - 12 points, 4.7 assists, 3.1 rebounds with 44%/27%/88% shooting in 28mpg
Deron Williams - 13 points, 6.6 assists, 3.5 rebounds, 39%/37%/83% shooting in 31.1mpg

Last year they lost Deron.   Jack went down with an injury.  Johnson was bought out.  One of their only impact players (RHJ) missed most of the seaosn.  The team was predictably terrible as a result.

Brook Lopez remains an impact player.  My question is, what's the minimal amount of talent that team would need to add around Lopez for you to start getting worried again?  I don't mean contender level... I mean 35-41 wins and a potential accidental playoff berth.    The other thing that was different about last year was that the Eastern Conference wasn't total garbage again... two years ago, two different teams made the playoffs with losing records.  That wasn't the case last year.  So let's define "worst-case" scenario as Brooklyn winning enough games to push their pick outside the Top 10.   Last year 34 wins would have earned the 11th pick.  What would need to happen to that roster for you to think that was possible?

[Celtics18]

Wow!! Do we really own their pick, unprotected, again?

[celticsclay]

So a couple years ago the Nets team that made the playoffs had the following three players other than Lopez receive the most amount of minutes:

Joe Johnson - 14.4 points, 4.8 rebounds, 3.7 assists with 44%/46%/80% shooting in 34.9mpg
Jarret Jack - 12 points, 4.7 assists, 3.1 rebounds with 44%/27%/88% shooting in 28mpg
Deron Williams - 13 points, 6.6 assists, 3.5 rebounds, 39%/37%/83% shooting in 31.1mpg

Last year they lost Deron.   Jack went down with an injury.  Johnson was bought out.  One of their only impact players (RHJ) missed most of the seaosn.  The team was predictably terrible as a result.

Brook Lopez remains an impact player.  My question is, what's the minimal amount of talent that team would need to add around Lopez for you to start getting worried again?  I don't mean contender level... I mean 35-41 wins and a potential accidental playoff berth.    The other thing that was different about last year was that the Eastern Conference wasn't total garbage again... two years ago, two different teams made the playoffs with losing records.  That wasn't the case last year.  So let's define "worst-case" scenario as Brooklyn winning enough games to push their pick outside the Top 10.   Last year 34 wins would have earned the 11th pick.  What would need to happen to that roster for you to think that was possible?

I think you are also forgetting they lost Thad Young who would probably still be their second best player this season.

I thought if this offseason they had managed to sign, for example, Mike Conley,  he would have been enough of an offensive weapon and distributor that he really could have had a major impact on their record. They also would have needed to sign a few veterans that were not completely washed up (eg scola of 4-5 years ago). Or just solid but unspectacular veterans like Jeff Green or Courtney Lee.

Thad Young was in this category, however his departure really negates the only quality veteran they were able to sign in Lin (who struggles when asked to take on a larger role).  I believe Scola and Foye at this point in their career are truly awful and will make them a worse team.

So to answer your question they are one lower level star and probably at least 2 reasonable veterans from sniffing 40 wins. I mean look at the teams that are project to compete for 40 wins. The Knicks and Bulls each have one star/superstars plus a high number of productive veterans around them. The Knicks are rolling out Noah, Rose, Courtney Lee, Brandon Jennings and Porzingas alongside Carmelo. The bulls have Robin Lopez, Taj Gibson, Rondo, Wade, McDermott etc to roll out. When you are left scratching your head on who in the world could be the Nets 3rd best player it is pretty mind blowing.

[Granath]

So a couple years ago the Nets team that made the playoffs had the following three players other than Lopez receive the most amount of minutes:

Joe Johnson - 14.4 points, 4.8 rebounds, 3.7 assists with 44%/46%/80% shooting in 34.9mpg
Jarret Jack - 12 points, 4.7 assists, 3.1 rebounds with 44%/27%/88% shooting in 28mpg
Deron Williams - 13 points, 6.6 assists, 3.5 rebounds, 39%/37%/83% shooting in 31.1mpg

Last year they lost Deron.   Jack went down with an injury.  Johnson was bought out.  One of their only impact players (RHJ) missed most of the seaosn.  The team was predictably terrible as a result.

Brook Lopez remains an impact player.  My question is, what's the minimal amount of talent that team would need to add around Lopez for you to start getting worried again?  I don't mean contender level... I mean 35-41 wins and a potential accidental playoff berth.    The other thing that was different about last year was that the Eastern Conference wasn't total garbage again... two years ago, two different teams made the playoffs with losing records.  That wasn't the case last year.  So let's define "worst-case" scenario as Brooklyn winning enough games to push their pick outside the Top 10.   Last year 34 wins would have earned the 11th pick.  What would need to happen to that roster for you to think that was possible?

Outside key injuries to every other team?

(1) No injuries
(2) At least one, if not two solid true starters (not guys like Lin) added to the above roster
(3) Lots of luck

I'm still not sure that gets it done. You're right in that the Nets "made the playoffs" two years ago. But let's look closely at that.

(1) They won the 8th spot with 38 wins  in a historically weak East. The East is markedly better now and 38 wins got you the 11th spot last year. The trend of the East seems to be improvement which means that a team that was barely competitive two years ago is no longer as strong as the rest of the competition. In fact, a strong argument that outside of Philly,every single team they finished in front of (NY, Indy, Detroit, Miami, Charlotte and Orlando) has easily surpassed their talent level.

(2) They got to 38 wins with an incredible amount of luck. Really, their playoff slot was remarkable. They won a tiebreaker against Indy. Their point differential was -2.9, which was far worse than Indy (#9, +.3) and Detroit (#12, -1.0). Point differential has been proven time and time again as one of the best statistics in showing relative strengths and so it's impossible to look at their run in 2014 and think it's likely that would happen again.

So it took a historically lucky season for them to make the playoffs in a historically weak division. What was a razor thin margin then is now a huge cavernous gulf. Getting back to their former talent level gets them nowhere near the playoffs now and they're nowhere near that talent level.

Now that's to make the playoffs. To push their pick outside the top 10? The same list as above, except only one solid level starter instead of two. They're a horrible team and it's going to take a miracle for them to finish outside even the bottom 5 this coming year. Frankly, it's not something that I'm going to dwell on at this point. I expect them to move Lopez before the trade deadline before he gets into the last year of his contract and just accept being horrible in order to maximize their few assets so they can try to turn it all around in two years.

[jpotter33]

Wow!! Do we really own their pick, unprotected, again?

Well, not technically. We only have the ability to switch the pick, so we only have one first rounder this year. The dang Steipien rule screwed us over from fleecing them even harder! 

[LarBrd33]

Wow!! Do we really own their pick, unprotected, again?

Well, not technically. We only have the ability to switch the pick, so we only have one first rounder this year. The dang Steipien rule screwed us over from fleecing them even harder! 

The gift that keeps giving.  When the dust finally settles on that trade, it might be the greatest deal in history.  It's already one of the best ever.  As a direct result of that trade we have Isaiah Thomas, Jaylen Brown, James Young and Tyler Zeller... plus the 2017 Brooklyn pick swap and the 2018 Brooklyn pick.   

Can you imagine trading either Jaylen or Thomas for KG + Pierce right now?  Lol

[Vermont Green]

Last season I thought they would be bad but part of my thinking was I assumed Lopez would get hurt at some point.  I was actually wrong about Lopez but they were still bad.

I don't know what the Nets can do.  I don't think they can put enough players around Lopez to actually contend (and if they do, he might get injured) so the logical thing is to trade Lopez and get some picks and young players back.

Even with Lopez, Thad, and Johnson, they weren't good.  Hard to see how they will be good this season (or next).  They probably should trade Lopez before he gets injured and then they are really screwed.

[The One]

Lopez will truely be a one man team this year.

I fear Lin could be a fly in the ping pong balls ointment.

Lin's on his 6th team in 6 years for a reason and that's not because he's a stud.

he is best served in the role he was in last year, offense against bench units. Ask him to do more than that (which the nets are) and it is trouble.

Thanks saltlover, Granath, celticsclay...you've calmed my fears.

[hpantazo]

The Nets are going to be horrible. But, don't underestimate the impact Greivis Vasquez can have on that team. He plays great when given minutes, which he will get on the Nets. I also think their prospects, McCullough and Levert, are pretty talented. They will lose a lot of games, sure, but they are not as horrible as some may think.

[jpotter33]

Wow!! Do we really own their pick, unprotected, again?

Well, not technically. We only have the ability to switch the pick, so we only have one first rounder this year. The dang Steipien rule screwed us over from fleecing them even harder! 

The gift that keeps giving.  When the dust finally settles on that trade, it might be the greatest deal in history.  It's already one of the best ever.  As a direct result of that trade we have Isaiah Thomas, Jaylen Brown, James Young and Tyler Zeller... plus the 2017 Brooklyn pick swap and the 2018 Brooklyn pick.   

Can you imagine trading either Jaylen or Thomas for KG + Pierce right now?  Lol

Definitely one of the better trades in NBA history, specifically recent history.

The other potential deal that fell through with the Clippers would've been pretty dope though, too. It was something like Deandre Jordan and a pick for KG, which while not quite as large of a steal as the Brooklyn deal, it still would've been a majorly lopsided deal that would've screwed the Clippers in the long run.

[dreamgreen]

The Nets are going to be horrible. But, don't underestimate the impact Greivis Vasquez can have on that team. He plays great when given minutes, which he will get on the Nets. I also think their prospects, McCullough and Levert, are pretty talented. They will lose a lot of games, sure, but they are not as horrible as some may think.

Yea but you could say all the bad teams got better but no one really knows till the season starts!

[dannyboy35]

They sure look bad on paper but they won't be trying to lose and there's always horrible teams trying to do that so unfortunately I don't think we are a lock at a top 4 pick. It sure seems we have to be a lock for a top 6 though and an extremely likely top 5.

[mef730]

Wow!! Do we really own their pick, unprotected, again?

Well, not technically. We only have the ability to switch the pick, so we only have one first rounder this year. The dang Steipien rule screwed us over from fleecing them even harder! 

Not to mention that we have their first rounder again next year, and that one is outright ours.

They sure look bad on paper but they won't be trying to lose and there's always horrible teams trying to do that so unfortunately I don't think we are a lock at a top 4 pick. It sure seems we have to be a lock for a top 6 though and an extremely likely top 5.

No. I'm as pessimistic as they come and I can't figure out a way in which they are not one of the three worst teams. I've tried, if for no other reason than to satisfy the irrational part of me that even considers jinxes. But they are horrible. They're awful. Even if BL were healthy 82 games, which he won't be, they'll still stink.

Try as a I might, I just can't come up with a way to view them as anything but, "yes, they are that bad."

Mike