Durant to make decision this summer doesn't want to go through FA next year(Rumo

[saltlover]

I really just don't know that KD to Gooden State makes sense.  I mean, yes, it's KD.  But to get him, they'd have to renounce pretty much all of their free agents.  They could make qualifying offers to Ian Clark and McAdoo, but if either or both of those guys get offered more than $2.9 million a year, GS wouldn't be able to match.  And every other free agent is gone.  And they have to trade one of Bogut (who is injured) or Iggy.  Suppose they trade Iggy, because we saw how exposed they were inside without Bogut:

Curry
Thompson
Durant
Green
Bogut

That's an amazing five-man lineup.  Possibly the best in history.  But the bench is:

Livingston
Kevon Looney
Pick #30
Some guy at the room exception for $2.9 million
6 guys at the minimum (in a year where very few players will take the minimum).

That's a really weak bench.  You can get through the playoffs with it if you stay healthy, but you can't expect that your roster can stay that healthy all season long.

Just because they CAN sign KD doesn't mean that they should.  That bench is Nets-level bad.

[saltlover]

So does anyone else doubt his character now? He's not a flashy guy that wants all of the attention. Rather, this is purely a basketball decision for him, and he only truly cares about winning.

If Westbrook tells Durant that he'll leave (most likely for LA) in 2017, then there's absolutely no way that Durant stays there.

Also, the Golden State Warriors report is based on a Frank Isola rumor, which has traditionally been worth about as much as you me starting a rumor. lol Though them losing the Title keeps the door open slightly for him to go to Golden State, I think he knows better than that. It's not necessarily a great fit due to their being way too many mouths to feed, and it will inevitably harm his reputation/legacy as a top player in the game.

I still think the Celtics and Spurs are the biggest threats right now. I think the Spurs will ultimately settle with Conley, though, because it'll take a little too much maneuvering and cutting to fit Durant in there.

But that doesn't make him a lock to come here. If he doesn't think that we've done enough to make us title contenders with him, then he could very well stay in OKC one more year and just look next year for a permanent home.

I wonder if a Noel/Love frontcourt pairing would be enough to entice him, though I'm still thinking that Horford is ultimately on his list of players that he'd like to play with.

Then why not just sign for 4 years.

What do you mean? 4 years with OKC? No way that happens if Westbrook says he's leaving in 2017, which virtually everyone thinks will happen.

I assume he meant why wouldn't he just sign four years with whichever team he winds up with, if he really just wants to be done with free agency.

That just comes down to money, the cap is supposed to go up even more next year so he can sign long term then.  It'll also put him into the 10+ years played category for max contracts, which is a HUGE pay increase

I know.  I was just trying to clarify a question.

[guava_wrench]

So does anyone else doubt his character now? He's not a flashy guy that wants all of the attention. Rather, this is purely a basketball decision for him, and he only truly cares about winning.

I'm not sure about that analysis. How is signing a 2 year deal so he can get a big raise in 2 years a "basketball decision" and only about winning? The team he goes to has no guarantee that he will stick around.

And what does "character" have to do with "caring about winning"? If players are changing teams chasing better rosters, doesn't that means they truly care about winning? Is that a sign of character? So Lebron and Bosh to Miami was a character move, right?

Not liking attention isn't "character". It is just not liking attention.

I respect KD because he doesn't use the press to pressure his team or teammates. He doesn't seem like a prima donna. But other players being better at coping with the annoyance of FA questions does not mean they have less character than him.

I tend to view character in terms of players putting in the effort to train in the offseason, committing to the team's system, and being accountable. Wanting to win isn't a character thing. That is just competitiveness.

[saltlover]

So does anyone else doubt his character now? He's not a flashy guy that wants all of the attention. Rather, this is purely a basketball decision for him, and he only truly cares about winning.

I'm not sure about that analysis. How is signing a 2 year deal so he can get a big raise in 2 years a "basketball decision" and only about winning? The team he goes to has no guarantee that he will stick around.

And what does "character" have to do with "caring about winning"? If players are changing teams chasing better rosters, doesn't that means they truly care about winning? Is that a sign of character? So Lebron and Bosh to Miami was a character move, right?

Not liking attention isn't "character". It is just not liking attention.

I respect KD because he doesn't use the press to pressure his team or teammates. He doesn't seem like a prima donna. But other players being better at coping with the annoyance of FA questions does not mean they have less character than him.

I tend to view character in terms of players putting in the effort to train in the offseason, committing to the team's system, and being accountable. Wanting to win isn't a character thing. That is just competitiveness.

My one argument as a "character" thing is that signing a big deal next year helps other players.  When MVP-level talents choose to take a below-market deal, that puts pressure on other players' contracts to be commensurately lower.  Heading into a CBA negotiation, it is best for the players if guys like KD did not knowingly take less than their full market value.

[jpotter33]

I really just don't know that KD to Gooden State makes sense.  I mean, yes, it's KD.  But to get him, they'd have to renounce pretty much all of their free agents.  They could make qualifying offers to Ian Clark and McAdoo, but if either or both of those guys get offered more than $2.9 million a year, GS wouldn't be able to match.  And every other free agent is gone.  And they have to trade one of Bogut (who is injured) or Iggy.  Suppose they trade Iggy, because we saw how exposed they were inside without Bogut:

Curry
Thompson
Durant
Green
Bogut

That's an amazing five-man lineup.  Possibly the best in history.  But the bench is:

Livingston
Kevon Looney
Pick #30
Some guy at the room exception for $2.9 million
6 guys at the minimum (in a year where very few players will take the minimum).

That's a really weak bench.  You can get through the playoffs with it if you stay healthy, but you can't expect that your roster can stay that healthy all season long.

Just because they CAN sign KD doesn't mean that they should.  That bench is Nets-level bad.

Exactly. There's a tendency in this league to want star players at all cost. And I mean in a sense that's correct, because All-Stars win you games/titles. However, fit and chemistry is a really important thing.

What Golden State needs to do is really look to find someone like Crowder - a defensive minded three who is cost-controlled, defensive-minded, versatile offensively and derensively, and can hit the three. They don't need another offensive-minded, ball-dominant star like Curry and Klay.

[Banner18now!]

In today's typical NBA I fully expect Durrant, if he leaves OKC, to sign with G.S. or S.A. It's just the way the NBA is today. Top heavy teams with stars wanting to play with other stars. Celts don't have enough talent and won't find enough talent in the next few weeks for them to be a factor. It's imperative the Celts continue to build this roster and hopefully hit on a superstar so other stars or great players will come.

[jpotter33]

So does anyone else doubt his character now? He's not a flashy guy that wants all of the attention. Rather, this is purely a basketball decision for him, and he only truly cares about winning.

I'm not sure about that analysis. How is signing a 2 year deal so he can get a big raise in 2 years a "basketball decision" and only about winning? The team he goes to has no guarantee that he will stick around.

And what does "character" have to do with "caring about winning"? If players are changing teams chasing better rosters, doesn't that means they truly care about winning? Is that a sign of character? So Lebron and Bosh to Miami was a character move, right?

Not liking attention isn't "character". It is just not liking attention.

I respect KD because he doesn't use the press to pressure his team or teammates. He doesn't seem like a prima donna. But other players being better at coping with the annoyance of FA questions does not mean they have less character than him.

I tend to view character in terms of players putting in the effort to train in the offseason, committing to the team's system, and being accountable. Wanting to win isn't a character thing. That is just competitiveness.

I was mainly meaning that he doesn't care about being in the biggest market, doesn't want to be "wooed" and coddled in free agency, and purely wants to find the best fit for winning, not necessarily anything with the 2-year deal. To me, that shows that he just wants to win, which to me is a sign of excellent character that doesn't necessarily care about all the distractions that come along with his position.

[guava_wrench]

So does anyone else doubt his character now? He's not a flashy guy that wants all of the attention. Rather, this is purely a basketball decision for him, and he only truly cares about winning.

I'm not sure about that analysis. How is signing a 2 year deal so he can get a big raise in 2 years a "basketball decision" and only about winning? The team he goes to has no guarantee that he will stick around.

And what does "character" have to do with "caring about winning"? If players are changing teams chasing better rosters, doesn't that means they truly care about winning? Is that a sign of character? So Lebron and Bosh to Miami was a character move, right?

Not liking attention isn't "character". It is just not liking attention.

I respect KD because he doesn't use the press to pressure his team or teammates. He doesn't seem like a prima donna. But other players being better at coping with the annoyance of FA questions does not mean they have less character than him.

I tend to view character in terms of players putting in the effort to train in the offseason, committing to the team's system, and being accountable. Wanting to win isn't a character thing. That is just competitiveness.

My one argument as a "character" thing is that signing a big deal next year helps other players.  When MVP-level talents choose to take a below-market deal, that puts pressure on other players' contracts to be commensurately lower.  Heading into a CBA negotiation, it is best for the players if guys like KD did not knowingly take less than their full market value.

I don't think what you say is true. When Lebron and Bosh signed for less than max, the other FA still got max deals where they went. Durant's decision would have zero impact on other FA since other teams would still be competing for those players. That competition will drive up prices to max because max contracts are already lower than the value top players bring to teams.

The problem with accepting lower deals is letting owners off the hook by giving them assets at a discount. The players association is not a fan of leaving money on the table.

[guava_wrench]

So does anyone else doubt his character now? He's not a flashy guy that wants all of the attention. Rather, this is purely a basketball decision for him, and he only truly cares about winning.

I'm not sure about that analysis. How is signing a 2 year deal so he can get a big raise in 2 years a "basketball decision" and only about winning? The team he goes to has no guarantee that he will stick around.

And what does "character" have to do with "caring about winning"? If players are changing teams chasing better rosters, doesn't that means they truly care about winning? Is that a sign of character? So Lebron and Bosh to Miami was a character move, right?

Not liking attention isn't "character". It is just not liking attention.

I respect KD because he doesn't use the press to pressure his team or teammates. He doesn't seem like a prima donna. But other players being better at coping with the annoyance of FA questions does not mean they have less character than him.

I tend to view character in terms of players putting in the effort to train in the offseason, committing to the team's system, and being accountable. Wanting to win isn't a character thing. That is just competitiveness.

I was mainly meaning that he doesn't care about being in the biggest market, doesn't want to be "wooed" and coddled in free agency, and purely wants to find the best fit for winning, not necessarily anything with the 2-year deal. To me, that shows that he just wants to win, which to me is a sign of excellent character that doesn't necessarily care about all the distractions that come along with his position.

Is there any reason to believe that has anything to do with wanting to win? It is about him being a shy person. Shy does not equal character. There are many other things we can see that seem to indicate character, but shyness is not such an indicator.

Most players don't want all the midseason questions. They just field them because it is part of their job. I think it takes a lot more character for people to hide that you find people annoying than Durants often prickly comments. We can interpret this stuff in countless ways.

[saltlover]

So does anyone else doubt his character now? He's not a flashy guy that wants all of the attention. Rather, this is purely a basketball decision for him, and he only truly cares about winning.

I'm not sure about that analysis. How is signing a 2 year deal so he can get a big raise in 2 years a "basketball decision" and only about winning? The team he goes to has no guarantee that he will stick around.

And what does "character" have to do with "caring about winning"? If players are changing teams chasing better rosters, doesn't that means they truly care about winning? Is that a sign of character? So Lebron and Bosh to Miami was a character move, right?

Not liking attention isn't "character". It is just not liking attention.

I respect KD because he doesn't use the press to pressure his team or teammates. He doesn't seem like a prima donna. But other players being better at coping with the annoyance of FA questions does not mean they have less character than him.

I tend to view character in terms of players putting in the effort to train in the offseason, committing to the team's system, and being accountable. Wanting to win isn't a character thing. That is just competitiveness.

My one argument as a "character" thing is that signing a big deal next year helps other players.  When MVP-level talents choose to take a below-market deal, that puts pressure on other players' contracts to be commensurately lower.  Heading into a CBA negotiation, it is best for the players if guys like KD did not knowingly take less than their full market value.

I don't think what you say is true. When Lebron and Bosh signed for less than max, the other FA still got max deals where they went. Durant's decision would have zero impact on other FA since other teams would still be competing for those players. That competition will drive up prices to max because max contracts are already lower than the value top players bring to teams.

The problem with accepting lower deals is letting owners off the hook by giving them assets at a discount. The players association is not a fan of leaving money on the table.

That's what I mean.  They're heading into a CBA negotiation.  If KD takes a 4-year deal, owners will say "Kevin Durant is willing to play for 40% less than he could have gotten next year.  You guys don't need a bigger cut of the pie.  In fact, we think you should get less."

LeBron left money on the table, and the players got it handed to them in CBA negotiations the next year.  Don't expect that to happen this time around.

[jpotter33]

So does anyone else doubt his character now? He's not a flashy guy that wants all of the attention. Rather, this is purely a basketball decision for him, and he only truly cares about winning.

I'm not sure about that analysis. How is signing a 2 year deal so he can get a big raise in 2 years a "basketball decision" and only about winning? The team he goes to has no guarantee that he will stick around.

And what does "character" have to do with "caring about winning"? If players are changing teams chasing better rosters, doesn't that means they truly care about winning? Is that a sign of character? So Lebron and Bosh to Miami was a character move, right?

Not liking attention isn't "character". It is just not liking attention.

I respect KD because he doesn't use the press to pressure his team or teammates. He doesn't seem like a prima donna. But other players being better at coping with the annoyance of FA questions does not mean they have less character than him.

I tend to view character in terms of players putting in the effort to train in the offseason, committing to the team's system, and being accountable. Wanting to win isn't a character thing. That is just competitiveness.

I was mainly meaning that he doesn't care about being in the biggest market, doesn't want to be "wooed" and coddled in free agency, and purely wants to find the best fit for winning, not necessarily anything with the 2-year deal. To me, that shows that he just wants to win, which to me is a sign of excellent character that doesn't necessarily care about all the distractions that come along with his position.

Is there any reason to believe that has anything to do with wanting to win? It is about him being a shy person. Shy does not equal character. There are many other things we can see that seem to indicate character, but shyness is not such an indicator.

Most players don't want all the midseason questions. They just field them because it is part of their job. I think it takes a lot more character for people to hide that you find people annoying than Durants often prickly comments. We can interpret this stuff in countless ways.

I mean, I'm not going to argue about this, because I think this is a silly thing that you're trying to put off on Durant. He's consistently said that he only cares about winning, not market size, not playing with friends, not endorsement deals, etc., and by all other indications he's a high-character individual who just eats, sleeps, and breathes basketball and winning.

[alley oop]

...
I just can't see him going to Golden State though. That would be too crazy for my imagination.
...

No better place if he wants multiple rings.  Possibly more than the entitled one in the end.

Or not. He has issues with sharing the ball and stupid decision-making/shot selection with Westbrook. How is it going to be anything but exacerbated with Curry and Klay, let alone Green??

Golden State moves the ball far more and better than the Thunder, so I don’t see that analogy. Will there be fewer shots, on average, taken per game than with the Thunder, yes.  Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, and KG accepted that change and won a championship, and if not for KG’s injury likely would have won more. For years Westbrook was taking more shots than him and it didn’t seem to bother him. It’s a matter of what matters the most to you, personal stats or rings.

1) All of them were past their prime and came together to win a championship. Curry and Klay already have one, and I doubt they'd be willing to share enough shots that it will take for Durant to be there and be effective.

Age related issues is part of the reason KG, Pierce, and Allen didn't win more than 1 ring.

2) We're now talking about three perennial All-Stars, two of them who have been MVP. And all three are either in their prime or not even reached it yet. To compare that to our Big 3 is a false analogy, especially given that those three are all offense-first players where KG and Paul were more two-way players than that.

>>>>

2015-16 NBA ALL-DEFENSIVE FIRST TEAM

Player (Team), 1st Team Votes, 2nd Team Votes, Total
Kawhi Leonard (San Antonio), 130, --, 260
Draymond Green (Golden State), 123, 5, 251
...
Other players receiving votes, with point totals (First Team votes in parentheses): Rudy Gobert, Utah, 64 (17); Klay Thompson, Golden State, 49 (16); Jae Crowder, Boston, 47 (3); LeBron James, Cleveland, 43 (5); Kyle Lowry,
...
Stephen Curry, Golden State, 13 (3);

Yeah, not sure what that has to do with anything. The fact of the matter is that GS is still probably the best team in basketball without Durant with a two-time, ball-dominant MVP in his prime, a multiple-time All-Star just entering his prime who is high usage/shooting, and a third wheel offensively who already has several times complained about his role in the offense. To try and compare their situation to three veterans past their prime who were each on bad teams coming together to win their first rings together is just bad logic.

You can believe all that, but GS has weaknesses, one as was shown in the 3rd round, that size and length bothers them. Durant would very much help in that area. Curry’s play when healthy covers up their weakness, this was evident in the Finals when he was playing with a sprained knee. 

Second, nobody was talking about Green being a one-way player, so you can't try and use that in your argument just because it helps you. Here's the quote - "especially given that those three [Durant, Steph, and Klay] are all offense-first players where KG and Paul were more two-way players than that." Klay is the only one of those that you might be able to call a true two-way player. This whole notion that Steph is a good defender due to his steals was rapidly shown as false this postseason when he was absolutely torched by point guards, notably Westbrook and Curry. And though Durant isn't a hole on defense, he's certainly not a top defender, and he's definitely a one-way player.

Curry, Thompson, and Green are often referred to as the Warriors “big three”. I thought you were referring to them. 

Regarding Pierce and defense, he never made either 1st or 2nd NBA All-Defensive teams in his entire career, so there’s no objective support to what you’re saying. What the commentators covering the Celtics on Comcast always say about that subject, Tommy included, is that Pierce became a good defender.

Regarding Steph’s defense, Westbrook one-on-one is too quick for anyone to guard, and in the Finals Steph was playing with a sprained knee. 

So, yes, once again, there's no comparison between Steph, Klay, and Durant and KG, Paul, and Ray. KG was an all-time defender at his position; Paul was a true two-way player that was one of the most underrated defenders of his time; Ray was on par with Steph and Durant at being average defenders at best.

I thought Durant's defense in the 3rd round was quite good and intimidating. Some evidence for this is he had 3 block shots in games, 3, 4, and 6.

[CoachBo]

Well, with the lemmings lining up behind Bulpett's "Wait until next year" annual pre-draft report, consider this:

Does anyone seriously think Kevin Durant wouldn't laugh himself silly at the notion of joining this team as currently constituted?