Khris middleton for the 3rd?

[Eddie20]

#3
Amir

for

#10
Middleton

At #10 we can take Poeltl, who adds both value and need. Middleton has an awesome contract (16-17 15.2M, 17-18 14.1M, 18-19 13M, 19-20 player option 13M), which also can't be overlooked, and provides size, versatility, and shooting at the swing position.

[heyvik]

I like Middleton, but not if the price is the third pick.

I'd rather just make the pick ourselves and preserve our cap space.

What is his salary?

Nevermind....answered in the post above.

[CroCorvus]

haha what a beauty. DA's pumping up the value of that third pick. We hear is for Butler, then we hear is for Noel or Okafor, now this...who want's to pay more who? 

[CroCorvus]

Unless they throw in #10 also. Seems everyone wants Dunn

this

[ABOS (A bit of Sanity)]

I think a good trade would be Smart + Amir and 23 for Middleton. Smart would be a pretty good fit in MIL. Hes not really a prototypical PG that needs the ball in his hands to make a difference on the court which i think would be a good complement to them wanting GA to handle the ball.

Thoughts on this Trade?

[D Dub]

I think a good trade would be Smart + Amir and 23 for Middleton. Smart would be a pretty good fit in MIL. Hes not really a prototypical PG that needs the ball in his hands to make a difference on the court which i think would be a good complement to them wanting GA to handle the ball.

Thoughts on this Trade?

good trade idea.  Smart would fit nicely into what Kidd is doing.

[Smitty77]

I'm surprised everyone is so against trading #3 for Middleton. I don't think we should trade the pick before we know exactly who it's going to be but Middleton is 24 years old and averaged 18-4-4 with 1.7 steals per game last year, shooting .444/.396/.888. He plays good defense and is exactly the kind of player the Celtics need (a shooting wing who can defend).

What are the odds that anyone rumored to be taken #3 will be as good of a two-way player as Middleton?

Totally agree with you Big333223!!!  Middleton is the 4th highest rated SG on ESPN's real plus/minus RPM and the 14th best defensive SG on DRPM.

I will take that, a PROVEN commodity, over an unproven #3 pick ANY day of the year!!!

Smitty77

[saltlover]

I'm surprised everyone is so against trading #3 for Middleton. I don't think we should trade the pick before we know exactly who it's going to be but Middleton is 24 years old and averaged 18-4-4 with 1.7 steals per game last year, shooting .444/.396/.888. He plays good defense and is exactly the kind of player the Celtics need (a shooting wing who can defend).

What are the odds that anyone rumored to be taken #3 will be as good of a two-way player as Middleton?

Averaging 18 ppg in 36 minutes is not some sort of a major achievement. You're trading for Jeff Green all over again.

lol What?

Middleton at 24 had a much better season last year than any season Jeff Green ever had. Middleton is a better defender, a better passer, and a much better shooter.

Exactly this.  Honestly, comparing someone to Jeff Green should be banned on this site.  It's lazy, and these days the comparisons are senseless.  Middleton at 24 made threes at practically a 1/3 greater rate, and more than doubled Green's assists and steals at the same age.  If Jeff Green could shoot 40% from 3, pass, and play better defense, he'd be Khris Middleton.  He'd also have a been a much better player, and probably someone fans would actually like. 

I'm not sure Middleton is worth #3, but I'm quite sure he's a much better player than Jeff Green.  Comparing Jeff Green to anyone has really gotten very tired.

[Granath]

I'm surprised everyone is so against trading #3 for Middleton. I don't think we should trade the pick before we know exactly who it's going to be but Middleton is 24 years old and averaged 18-4-4 with 1.7 steals per game last year, shooting .444/.396/.888. He plays good defense and is exactly the kind of player the Celtics need (a shooting wing who can defend).

What are the odds that anyone rumored to be taken #3 will be as good of a two-way player as Middleton?

Totally agree with you Big333223!!!  Middleton is the 4th highest rated SG on ESPN's real plus/minus RPM and the 14th best defensive SG on DRPM.

I will take that, a PROVEN commodity, over an unproven #3 pick ANY day of the year!!!

Smitty77

Not to nitpick with the conclusion but RPM seems to be exceptionally flawed. According to that metric Bradley is a worse defender than James Harden and Olynyk and Sully are top Centers. Yeah...not happening.

Here's the question I want those who are in favor of this trade to answer: Middleton is already 24 and the peak for players is 24-27 years old. If Middleton does not improve one iota from his current numbers - something that could reasonably happen - is the #3 pick worth the incremental upgrade you get for him? How many more wins does he bring?

I'm undecided on this deal. I like Middleton but I think there are far greater needs for the Cs.

[saltlover]

I'm surprised everyone is so against trading #3 for Middleton. I don't think we should trade the pick before we know exactly who it's going to be but Middleton is 24 years old and averaged 18-4-4 with 1.7 steals per game last year, shooting .444/.396/.888. He plays good defense and is exactly the kind of player the Celtics need (a shooting wing who can defend).

What are the odds that anyone rumored to be taken #3 will be as good of a two-way player as Middleton?

Totally agree with you Big333223!!!  Middleton is the 4th highest rated SG on ESPN's real plus/minus RPM and the 14th best defensive SG on DRPM.

I will take that, a PROVEN commodity, over an unproven #3 pick ANY day of the year!!!

Smitty77

Not to nitpick with the conclusion but RPM seems to be exceptionally flawed. According to that metric Bradley is a worse defender than James Harden and Olynyk and Sully are top Centers. Yeah...not happening.

Here's the question I want those who are in favor of this trade to answer: Middleton is already 24 and the peak for players is 24-27 years old. If Middleton does not improve one iota from his current numbers - something that could reasonably happen - is the #3 pick worth the incremental upgrade you get for him? How many more wins does he bring?

I'm undecided on this deal. I like Middleton but I think there are far greater needs for the Cs.

As I've posted numerous times, the average peak for successful NBA players is not 24.  If you look at NBA players who last 10 years in the league (something that Middleton seems well on his way to doing), the peak age is around 27 or 28.  It is very reasonable to expect that Middleton gets a bit better.

Please help me break the peak age is 24 myth.  That dataset includes a lot of NBA washouts who didn't even play in the NBA at 26.

[ssspence]

I'm surprised everyone is so against trading #3 for Middleton. I don't think we should trade the pick before we know exactly who it's going to be but Middleton is 24 years old and averaged 18-4-4 with 1.7 steals per game last year, shooting .444/.396/.888. He plays good defense and is exactly the kind of player the Celtics need (a shooting wing who can defend).

What are the odds that anyone rumored to be taken #3 will be as good of a two-way player as Middleton?

Averaging 18 ppg in 36 minutes is not some sort of a major achievement. You're trading for Jeff Green all over again.

lol What?

Middleton at 24 had a much better season last year than any season Jeff Green ever had. Middleton is a better defender, a better passer, and a much better shooter.

Exactly this.  Honestly, comparing someone to Jeff Green should be banned on this site.  It's lazy, and these days the comparisons are senseless.  Middleton at 24 made threes at practically a 1/3 greater rate, and more than doubled Green's assists and steals at the same age.  If Jeff Green could shoot 40% from 3, pass, and play better defense, he'd be Khris Middleton.  He'd also have a been a much better player, and probably someone fans would actually like. 

I'm not sure Middleton is worth #3, but I'm quite sure he's a much better player than Jeff Green.  Comparing Jeff Green to anyone has really gotten very tired.

TP

[Granath]

I'm surprised everyone is so against trading #3 for Middleton. I don't think we should trade the pick before we know exactly who it's going to be but Middleton is 24 years old and averaged 18-4-4 with 1.7 steals per game last year, shooting .444/.396/.888. He plays good defense and is exactly the kind of player the Celtics need (a shooting wing who can defend).

What are the odds that anyone rumored to be taken #3 will be as good of a two-way player as Middleton?

Totally agree with you Big333223!!!  Middleton is the 4th highest rated SG on ESPN's real plus/minus RPM and the 14th best defensive SG on DRPM.

I will take that, a PROVEN commodity, over an unproven #3 pick ANY day of the year!!!

Smitty77

Not to nitpick with the conclusion but RPM seems to be exceptionally flawed. According to that metric Bradley is a worse defender than James Harden and Olynyk and Sully are top Centers. Yeah...not happening.

Here's the question I want those who are in favor of this trade to answer: Middleton is already 24 and the peak for players is 24-27 years old. If Middleton does not improve one iota from his current numbers - something that could reasonably happen - is the #3 pick worth the incremental upgrade you get for him? How many more wins does he bring?

I'm undecided on this deal. I like Middleton but I think there are far greater needs for the Cs.

As I've posted numerous times, the average peak for successful NBA players is not 24.  If you look at NBA players who last 10 years in the league (something that Middleton seems well on his way to doing), the peak age is around 27 or 28.  It is very reasonable to expect that Middleton gets a bit better.

Please help me break the peak age is 24 myth.  That dataset includes a lot of NBA washouts who didn't even play in the NBA at 26.

Washouts doesn't mean the numbers were wrong. Your numbers are also faulty because you're eliminating anyone who didn't play for 10 years meaning that the players were far better than average. Your caveat of "successful" NBA players is far more limiting than other studies.

But let's say for the sake of argument that it's 26 or 27. Middleton will be 25 before next season starts. He may improve. He may not. The question stands. If that's as good as he gets, is the deal worth it?

[LarBrd33]

A bit of #NBADraft chatter: Boston has discussed 3 and a contract for Khris Middleton. Danny Ainge wants to add a scorer. #Celtics

I'd be pretty excited about that.  I love MIddleton's game.  Dude took a leap last year.

[LarBrd33]

A bit of #NBADraft chatter: Boston has discussed 3 and a contract for Khris Middleton. Danny Ainge wants to add a scorer. #Celtics

The discussion probably went like this:

Hammond: How about we give you Middleton for the 3?
Ainge: *crickets*

Middleton after the all-star break:  18.8 points, 4.6 assists, 3.9 rebounds, 2.4 steals with .474/.375/.923 in 36mpg... he's a solid defender and clearly an outstanding shooter.  He's also got legit size at 6'8, 234lbs.   He's shot 39-41% from three in each of the past 3 seasons.

Do people genuinely think we're getting a player of that caliber at #3?   MIddleton is 24 years old and already a borderline star.   According to scouts/front offices, the players available 3-7 project as starters at best.

You guys are setting yourselves up for disappointment, I think.

[Smitty77]

I'm surprised everyone is so against trading #3 for Middleton. I don't think we should trade the pick before we know exactly who it's going to be but Middleton is 24 years old and averaged 18-4-4 with 1.7 steals per game last year, shooting .444/.396/.888. He plays good defense and is exactly the kind of player the Celtics need (a shooting wing who can defend).

What are the odds that anyone rumored to be taken #3 will be as good of a two-way player as Middleton?

Totally agree with you Big333223!!!  Middleton is the 4th highest rated SG on ESPN's real plus/minus RPM and the 14th best defensive SG on DRPM.

I will take that, a PROVEN commodity, over an unproven #3 pick ANY day of the year!!!

Smitty77

Not to nitpick with the conclusion but RPM seems to be exceptionally flawed. According to that metric Bradley is a worse defender than James Harden and Olynyk and Sully are top Centers. Yeah...not happening.

Here's the question I want those who are in favor of this trade to answer: Middleton is already 24 and the peak for players is 24-27 years old. If Middleton does not improve one iota from his current numbers - something that could reasonably happen - is the #3 pick worth the incremental upgrade you get for him? How many more wins does he bring?

I'm undecided on this deal. I like Middleton but I think there are far greater needs for the Cs.

There ARE anomalies in the DRPM, but look at the top 10 (top 11, as Butler tied for 10th) and tell me that these are NOT some pretty solid SF defenders:

   Danny Green   SA   79   26.1   0.32   2.93   3.25   8.18
2   Tony Allen   MEM   64   25.3   -1.40   2.21   0.81   3.88
3   Rondae Hollis-Jefferson   BKN   29   21.2   -1.56   2.05   0.49   1.44
4   Manu Ginobili   SA   58   19.6   2.00   1.91   3.91   5.12
5   Jeremy Lamb   CHA   66   18.6   -0.87   1.87   1.00   3.19
6   Kyle Korver   ATL   80   30.0   -0.13   1.82   1.69   7.31
7   Andre Roberson   OKC   70   22.2   -1.48   1.55   0.07   3.16
8   Iman Shumpert   CLE   54   24.4   -1.24   1.26   0.02   2.56
9   Justin Anderson   DAL   55   11.8   -2.07   1.03   -1.04   0.86
10   Garrett Temple   WSH   80   24.4   -1.24   0.89   -0.35   3.54
11   Jimmy Butler   CHI   67   36.9   3.12   0.89   4.01   11.06

Smitty77