Where Does Lebron Rank All Time

[Moranis]

I think Jordan is still #1, but James is certainly on pace to end up at #1.

After Jordan, in no particular order and rounding out the top 10 - James, Chamberlain, Johnson, Robertson, Russell, Bird, Abdul-Jabbar, Olajuwon, and O'Neal. 

Next 5 in no particular order - Duncan, Erving, M. Malone, K. Malone, and West.

I haven't thought much past that, though would probably have Bryant and Garnett in the next 5.

Not to get off topic, but I'm curious about Olajuwon/Duncan.  Why does Olajuwon make that top tier but not Duncan?

Except for Hakeem's 2 DPOY awards and being the all time leader in blocks, Duncan has him beat in just about every other accolade or accomplishment.  Interested in your thoughts on that.

Hakeem is a better all around player.  Much more elite defender, more dominant scorer, etc.  I mean the only stat in which Duncan is better from a per game average is assists (and he commits less turnovers and fouls).  The Dream tops him from shooting from pretty much everywhere as well, so the Dream is more efficient and has better numbers.  It is pretty much the same in the playoffs as well.

Duncan played longer which does effect some of the numbers, but is also why he has higher totals, but if you took their peak season Dream in a landslide.  Hakeem is probably the all time great that gets the least amount of respect because he played in the time of Magic/Larry/Michael.  Real shame to, because Hakeem was awesome.

[Surferdad]

He wasn't even top-10 before, but he is in the 7-10 range now with this championship.

Russell, Jordan, Kareem Magic, Bird, Wilt, Olajuwon, are still ahead.

Your can make the argument for Kobe and Duncan also ahead.

Shaq is not even close to top-10, probably around 12-15.

[fairweatherfan]

The highest Lebron can reach is 2..
The guy who sits at the top has never been beaten in 6 Finals.. The confetti has never come down with someone else crying holding the Trophy..  There is no human being playing that can say they bested that man in the finals..
People scrambled to form teams to combat that man and they all failed..
At this point Lebron will be lucky to break even with Championships..   
Yes he is a physical Specimen but His Clutch Gene is d@mn near Non Existent.. 
IF you asked Tim Duncan who was the Greatest player of his Era he should rightfully say himself - he beat the man 2 out of 3 (last time he beat him he was old as heck)

Right now he is Along side of Bird and behind Duncan, Magic and Kobe..  He could possibly catch those guys.. but He has to many finals losses to ever be the Goat.
big one though being down 3-1 against the GS.. Much respect for that one.. (but lets not get carried away)

Not saying Lebron is better than Jordan at all, but using the 6-0 as reasoning isn't entirely great. Jordan went to the playoffs 13 times in his career. He won the championship 6 times. He was bested in the playoffs 7 times. So you are right that no one has ever bested him in the Finals, but many teams beat him in the playoffs still. Lebron has been to the Finals 7 times, which is something to take note of still. It's similar to the Brady/Montana situation in a way.

It's also important to note that by the time Jordan was 31, he had played in 3 Finals, while Lebron has played in 7. That's pretty insane.

This is a great point. Finals losses are not a big deal. Making it to the finals is a great accomplishment.

What Jordan has though is that at his peak, he was undefeated in the playoffs 6 times in a row and then retired. Essentially, once he hit his peak, he never lost a playoff series.

Personally though, I find ranking players all-time to be a silly activity.

Jordan lost to Orlando in the 95 playoffs, though to be fair he came back halfway through that season. 


LeBron just boosted his all-timer resume by a lot.  Even ignoring the historical w-l record you can argue no all-time great ever bested a better opponent in the Finals.  I hate to give him a specific rank but he's somewhere in that 2nd tier now, with only the Russell/Jordan types clearly above him.

[MBunge]

The highest Lebron can reach is 2..
The guy who sits at the top has never been beaten in 6 Finals.. The confetti has never come down with someone else crying holding the Trophy..  There is no human being playing that can say they bested that man in the finals..
People scrambled to form teams to combat that man and they all failed..
At this point Lebron will be lucky to break even with Championships..   
Yes he is a physical Specimen but His Clutch Gene is d@mn near Non Existent.. 
IF you asked Tim Duncan who was the Greatest player of his Era he should rightfully say himself - he beat the man 2 out of 3 (last time he beat him he was old as heck)

Right now he is Along side of Bird and behind Duncan, Magic and Kobe..  He could possibly catch those guys.. but He has to many finals losses to ever be the Goat.
big one though being down 3-1 against the GS.. Much respect for that one.. (but lets not get carried away)

Not saying Lebron is better than Jordan at all, but using the 6-0 as reasoning isn't entirely great. Jordan went to the playoffs 13 times in his career. He won the championship 6 times. He was bested in the playoffs 7 times. So you are right that no one has ever bested him in the Finals, but many teams beat him in the playoffs still. Lebron has been to the Finals 7 times, which is something to take note of still. It's similar to the Brady/Montana situation in a way.

It's also important to note that by the time Jordan was 31, he had played in 3 Finals, while Lebron has played in 7. That's pretty insane.

This is a great point. Finals losses are not a big deal. Making it to the finals is a great accomplishment.

What Jordan has though is that at his peak, he was undefeated in the playoffs 6 times in a row and then retired. Essentially, once he hit his peak, he never lost a playoff series.

Personally though, I find ranking players all-time to be a silly activity.

Jordan lost to Orlando in the 95 playoffs, though to be fair he came back halfway through that season. 


LeBron just boosted his all-timer resume by a lot.  Even ignoring the historical w-l record you can argue no all-time great ever bested a better opponent in the Finals.  I hate to give him a specific rank but he's somewhere in that 2nd tier now, with only the Russell/Jordan types clearly above him.

I'm not a big LeBron fan but there's no way you can keep him out of that 2nd tier after this.

Mike

[manl_lui]

The highest Lebron can reach is 2..
The guy who sits at the top has never been beaten in 6 Finals.. The confetti has never come down with someone else crying holding the Trophy..  There is no human being playing that can say they bested that man in the finals..
People scrambled to form teams to combat that man and they all failed..
At this point Lebron will be lucky to break even with Championships..   
Yes he is a physical Specimen but His Clutch Gene is d@mn near Non Existent.. 
IF you asked Tim Duncan who was the Greatest player of his Era he should rightfully say himself - he beat the man 2 out of 3 (last time he beat him he was old as heck)

Right now he is Along side of Bird and behind Duncan, Magic and Kobe..  He could possibly catch those guys.. but He has to many finals losses to ever be the Goat.
big one though being down 3-1 against the GS.. Much respect for that one.. (but lets not get carried away)

Not saying Lebron is better than Jordan at all, but using the 6-0 as reasoning isn't entirely great. Jordan went to the playoffs 13 times in his career. He won the championship 6 times. He was bested in the playoffs 7 times. So you are right that no one has ever bested him in the Finals, but many teams beat him in the playoffs still. Lebron has been to the Finals 7 times, which is something to take note of still. It's similar to the Brady/Montana situation in a way.

It's also important to note that by the time Jordan was 31, he had played in 3 Finals, while Lebron has played in 7. That's pretty insane.

This is a great point. Finals losses are not a big deal. Making it to the finals is a great accomplishment.

What Jordan has though is that at his peak, he was undefeated in the playoffs 6 times in a row and then retired. Essentially, once he hit his peak, he never lost a playoff series.

Personally though, I find ranking players all-time to be a silly activity.

Jordan lost to Orlando in the 95 playoffs, though to be fair he came back halfway through that season. 


LeBron just boosted his all-timer resume by a lot.  Even ignoring the historical w-l record you can argue no all-time great ever bested a better opponent in the Finals.  I hate to give him a specific rank but he's somewhere in that 2nd tier now, with only the Russell/Jordan types clearly above him.

I'm not a big LeBron fan but there's no way you can keep him out of that 2nd tier after this.

Mike

I hate to say this but if LeBron gets another ring, and performed the way he did in this past finals, I'd probably considering puttin ghim above Bird too

that would be 7 finals trip (probably 7 straight), and 4 rings, possibly averaging a triple double again, you have to consider putting in that discussion with Jordan. Love him or hate him, the last 4 games he was playing out of his mind!

[Who]

Same answer as a few days ago = Back end of the top 10 with plenty of time left in LeBron's career to move further up the list.

[Celtics18]

I went with 4.

I've still got Jordan, as well as Bird and Magic ahead.

I'm not counting guys who played prior to the 80s.  I don't feel qualified to have a legitimate opinion on those older guys.  Kareem is borderline.  Although he was a great player for the Lakers in the 80s, he was already past his prime.

Duncan rounds out my top five. 

After that, I think I've got; Dr. J, Hakeem, Shaq.

Nowitzki and Garnett round out the top ten.

Kobe misses the top ten cut, along with Wade.

I suspect that Durant and Curry will be in the conversation before it's all said and done.

And a special shout out to T-Mac, who didn't win enough and whose career was cut too short by injury to be considered among the top of the all time greats, but in his prime; "wow, just wow!!!"

Tough to leave the Mailman off this list, but he suffers from never getting that ring.  Plus, he was just never that fun to watch.

Isiah was pretty special too.  I know Celtics fans love to hate him, but I was a big fan in the late eighties, early nineties.

[Big333223]

I went with 4.

I've still got Jordan, as well as Bird and Magic ahead.

Same. Those 4 guys are hard to argue against.

[Donoghus]

Top 5.

[meangreenmachine]

Only thing that can knock him down now would be a PED scandal.

His body and hairline do make you wonder, huh?

[Fafnir]

I think he's not top 5 yet but I value longevity a lot.

Though barring something awful happening he'll be top 5 if his career follows a relatively normal aging curve. If you value peak more than longevity he's definitely top 5.

[Surferdad]

I went with 4.

I've still got Jordan, as well as Bird and Magic ahead.

I'm not counting guys who played prior to the 80s.  I don't feel qualified to have a legitimate opinion on those older guys.  Kareem is borderline.  Although he was a great player for the Lakers in the 80s, he was already past his prime.

Duncan rounds out my top five. 

After that, I think I've got; Dr. J, Hakeem, Shaq.

Nowitzki and Garnett round out the top ten.

Kobe misses the top ten cut, along with Wade.

I suspect that Durant and Curry will be in the conversation before it's all said and done.

And a special shout out to T-Mac, who didn't win enough and whose career was cut too short by injury to be considered among the top of the all time greats, but in his prime; "wow, just wow!!!"

Tough to leave the Mailman off this list, but he suffers from never getting that ring.  Plus, he was just never that fun to watch.

Isiah was pretty special too.  I know Celtics fans love to hate him, but I was a big fan in the late eighties, early nineties.

Nice analysis, but it makes no sense to simply ignore pre-80's.  Do your homework, watch videos, read expert opinions!  Even with minimal research you would see that you have to include Russell, Wilt, and the all-time leading scorer Kareem.

[PhoSita]

LeBron versus Larry Bird


This is a great time to compare the two, since Larry retired after his 13th season in the league, while LeBron just finished his 13th season.


Per game averages:

LeBron

Regular Season - 27.2 point, 6.9 assists, 7.2 rebounds, 1.7 steals, 0.8 blocks, 8.3 FTA, 74.4% FT, 53.2% EFG
Playoffs - 28 points, 6.8 assists, 8.8 rebounds, 1.8 steals, 0.9 blocks, 9.1 FTA, 74.6% FT, 51.3% EFG

Larry

Regular Season - 24.3 points, 6.3 assists, 10.0 rebounds, 1.7 steals, 0.8 blocks, 5.0 FTA, 88.6% FT, 51.4% EFG
Playoffs - 23.8 points, 6.5 assists, 10.3 rebounds, 1.8 steals, 0.9 blocks, 6.2 FTA, 89% FT, 48.5% EFG


LeBron leads Larry in regular season Win Shares 192.5 to 145.8.  He leads Larry in playoff Win Shares 41.6 to 24.8.

LeBron leads Larry in games played in the regular season, and has played 199 playoff games to Larry's 165. 

After these Finals, I'd say LeBron has at least as many signature performances, especially on a big stage.


I don't think there's any question, LeBron has surpassed Larry Bird.

[meangreenmachine]

It's also important to note that by the time Jordan was 31, he had played in 3 Finals, while Lebron has played in 7. That's pretty insane.

Is it really "insane"? By the time Bill Russell was 31, how many championships in a row had he won?

[kozlodoev]

that would be 7 finals trip (probably 7 straight), and 4 rings, possibly averaging a triple double again, you have to consider putting in that discussion with Jordan. Love him or hate him, the last 4 games he was playing out of his mind!

That would, in fact, be 8 finals trips, he already has 7.