Report: C's/Chicago have discussed trade; Chicago prefers to move Rose

[Granath]

I think they should either trade both or neither.  Either jump with both feet into a rebuild, or don't do it at all.  If Gasol walks, they'll have about $23 million to add to their team.  I don't think they're getting established talent for Rose, and while they could for Butler, does it make sense to do so if you want to move on from Rose anyway?

Rose's contract combined with being a bad player makes him difficult to trade.  A legitimate rebuild in Chicago should involve a willingness to bench Rose and start a rookie in his place.

I think there's enough teams desperate enough for a PG to look at him.  Certainly the New York teams.  It's an expiring deal, so if a team with cap space anyway takes a chance on him, there's little harm if you don't overpay.  If he works out, then you keep him around for the future.  The more likely obstacle is that Chicago asks for the moon because he's Derrick Rose, just like they couldn't bear to move Noah last year, even though they needed to.

So how do you see a Rose deal working?

Is it a Baron-Davis-to-Cleveland type deal, where Chicago has to give up a pick (#14 this year?)  for somebody (like Brooklyn) to take Rose?

Or does Brooklyn just agree to take him straight up for practically nothing when they can absorb his contract in the summer?

Can Chicago get anything of value in return?

Top 55 protected 2nd round pick. That's what they'll get for him.

[LooseCannon]

I think they should either trade both or neither.  Either jump with both feet into a rebuild, or don't do it at all.  If Gasol walks, they'll have about $23 million to add to their team.  I don't think they're getting established talent for Rose, and while they could for Butler, does it make sense to do so if you want to move on from Rose anyway?

Rose's contract combined with being a bad player makes him difficult to trade.  A legitimate rebuild in Chicago should involve a willingness to bench Rose and start a rookie in his place.

I think there's enough teams desperate enough for a PG to look at him.  Certainly the New York teams.  It's an expiring deal, so if a team with cap space anyway takes a chance on him, there's little harm if you don't overpay.  If he works out, then you keep him around for the future.  The more likely obstacle is that Chicago asks for the moon because he's Derrick Rose, just like they couldn't bear to move Noah last year, even though they needed to.

So how do you see a Rose deal working?

Is it a Baron-Davis-to-Cleveland type deal, where Chicago has to give up a pick (#14 this year?)  for somebody (like Brooklyn) to take Rose?

Or does Brooklyn just agree to take him straight up for practically nothing when they can absorb his contract in the summer?

Can Chicago get anything of value in return?

Top 55 protected 2nd round pick. That's what they'll get for him.

Seems like an overpay for Rose.  if I had a choice between Rose on his contract and a random NBA player who turns out to be a pedophile, I'd take the pedophile.

[jambr380]

I suppose we could just take him with Butler and keep the #3 pick and AB instead. 

[Chief]

Maybe you got to take Rose to get Butler.

[LarBrd33]

https://twitter.com/MySportsLegion/status/742778796663771136?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2646295-derrick-rose-trade-rumors-latest-news-buzz-and-speculation-on-bulls-star

So the report about the trade centered around the #3 pick and undisclosed players (has to be Butler) came first, and a little later came the report that they're actively looking for Rose suitors and would prefer to trade him over Butler.

What's this tell you?

For me, it says that the C's and Chicago are close in principle to a deal around Butler for #3, but they're making a last ditch attempt to see if they can get anything for Rose before dealing Butler. Of course you'd like to keep Butler and try to receive anything at all from trading Rose, but Rose's value is pretty low right now. I can't imagine that they'll get the same type of value from a Rose trade as we could give them for a Butler trade.

What do you think?

I've jokingly said this before... if Jimmy Butler is the magic key to acquiring Kevin Durant, the Bulls should just sign Kevin Durant.   If they dump Rose's salary, they will have the cap space to make it happen.  I'm sure a team like Philly or Brooklyn would gladly take a chance on Rose at minimal cost. 

[hpantazo]

https://twitter.com/MySportsLegion/status/742778796663771136?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2646295-derrick-rose-trade-rumors-latest-news-buzz-and-speculation-on-bulls-star

So the report about the trade centered around the #3 pick and undisclosed players (has to be Butler) came first, and a little later came the report that they're actively looking for Rose suitors and would prefer to trade him over Butler.

What's this tell you?

For me, it says that the C's and Chicago are close in principle to a deal around Butler for #3, but they're making a last ditch attempt to see if they can get anything for Rose before dealing Butler. Of course you'd like to keep Butler and try to receive anything at all from trading Rose, but Rose's value is pretty low right now. I can't imagine that they'll get the same type of value from a Rose trade as we could give them for a Butler trade.

What do you think?

I've jokingly said this before... if Jimmy Butler is the magic key to acquiring Kevin Durant, the Bulls should just sign Kevin Durant.   If they dump Rose's salary, they will have the cap space to make it happen.  I'm sure a team like Philly or Brooklyn would gladly take a chance on Rose at minimal cost.

Don't underestimate the pull that agents have in these type of moves though. If Durant and/or Butler much prefer Boston to Chicago, be it the organization or coach or roster, or a combo of those reasons, then the agents will make it happen, even if Chicago has the opportunity to dump Rose's deal and open up cap space. Durant's agent can just say, look, he's not signing with you, so either you help out and get value for Butler or I can make your life difficult for a very long time with all of the players I represent in this league.

Ainge knows how to work agents. I think several moves he's made in the past have been to appease agents to some extent when he helped other teams facilitate deals, even the Sheed to Detroit deal that got them a title, and the huge Heat deal when they got Antoine Walker and a bunch of other guys and also won a title.

[mctyson]

Moving both Bulter and Rose really only makes sense with the Celtics involved.

The Cs can offer Chicago a ton of draft picks for Butler.  This immediately establishes their rebuild.  On top of that, it gives them extra picks to move as sweeteners to a team willing to take on one year of Derrick Rose.  Brooklyn and NYK are perfect spots as they both need a 1st round pick and both are going nowhere next year.

[dreamgreen]

I think they should either trade both or neither.  Either jump with both feet into a rebuild, or don't do it at all.  If Gasol walks, they'll have about $23 million to add to their team.  I don't think they're getting established talent for Rose, and while they could for Butler, does it make sense to do so if you want to move on from Rose anyway?

Rose's contract combined with being a bad player makes him difficult to trade.  A legitimate rebuild in Chicago should involve a willingness to bench Rose and start a rookie in his place.

I think there's enough teams desperate enough for a PG to look at him.  Certainly the New York teams.  It's an expiring deal, so if a team with cap space anyway takes a chance on him, there's little harm if you don't overpay.  If he works out, then you keep him around for the future.  The more likely obstacle is that Chicago asks for the moon because he's Derrick Rose, just like they couldn't bear to move Noah last year, even though they needed to.

So how do you see a Rose deal working?

Is it a Baron-Davis-to-Cleveland type deal, where Chicago has to give up a pick (#14 this year?)  for somebody (like Brooklyn) to take Rose?

Or does Brooklyn just agree to take him straight up for practically nothing when they can absorb his contract in the summer?

Can Chicago get anything of value in return?

Top 55 protected 2nd round pick. That's what they'll get for him.

Seems like an overpay for Rose.  if I had a choice between Rose on his contract and a random NBA player who turns out to be a pedophile, I'd take the pedophile.

LOL

[tankcity!]

Moving both Bulter and Rose really only makes sense with the Celtics involved.

The Cs can offer Chicago a ton of draft picks for Butler.  This immediately establishes their rebuild.  On top of that, it gives them extra picks to move as sweeteners to a team willing to take on one year of Derrick Rose.  Brooklyn and NYK are perfect spots as they both need a 1st round pick and both are going nowhere next year.

This won't work if the Celtics want to go after Durant. We can only trade for Butler.

[mef730]

I think they should either trade both or neither.  Either jump with both feet into a rebuild, or don't do it at all.  If Gasol walks, they'll have about $23 million to add to their team.  I don't think they're getting established talent for Rose, and while they could for Butler, does it make sense to do so if you want to move on from Rose anyway?

Rose's contract combined with being a bad player makes him difficult to trade.  A legitimate rebuild in Chicago should involve a willingness to bench Rose and start a rookie in his place.

I think there's enough teams desperate enough for a PG to look at him.  Certainly the New York teams.  It's an expiring deal, so if a team with cap space anyway takes a chance on him, there's little harm if you don't overpay.  If he works out, then you keep him around for the future.  The more likely obstacle is that Chicago asks for the moon because he's Derrick Rose, just like they couldn't bear to move Noah last year, even though they needed to.

So how do you see a Rose deal working?

Is it a Baron-Davis-to-Cleveland type deal, where Chicago has to give up a pick (#14 this year?)  for somebody (like Brooklyn) to take Rose?

Or does Brooklyn just agree to take him straight up for practically nothing when they can absorb his contract in the summer?

Can Chicago get anything of value in return?

Now that's a scary thought. With only a year left, though, I doubt they'd have to give up a lottery pick to dump Rose.

Mike

[Irish Stew]

If the deal is Bradley and #3 for Butler and 1 year of paying Rose's $21 million salary, then no. If the deal is just #3, then maybe. It might depend on whether Ainge believes that he will have success signing a major free agent this offseason.

[flybono]

I thought expiring contracts had value?

[Chief]

Moving both Bulter and Rose really only makes sense with the Celtics involved.

The Cs can offer Chicago a ton of draft picks for Butler.  This immediately establishes their rebuild.  On top of that, it gives them extra picks to move as sweeteners to a team willing to take on one year of Derrick Rose.  Brooklyn and NYK are perfect spots as they both need a 1st round pick and both are going nowhere next year.

This won't work if the Celtics want to go after Durant. We can only trade for Butler.

Maybe a 3 way and offer a team like Brooklyn a ton of 2nd round picks to take him.

[hpantazo]

I think the high demand for Dunn is going to allow us to make a deal for Butler or another star from a position of strength. Reports before the lottery where that the Lakers were very high on Dunn.

Since then, the Bulls, Sixers, and TWolves are all very high on him, and many people think he can be one of the top 2 players to come out of this draft. I know he doesn't fill a need for our team, but Ainge can easily suggest that he would take Dunn as the best player available if teams don't take our offers. The market for Dunn is driving up the value of the #3 pick at the right time.

The rest of the pack looks pretty even in terms of value (Bender, Murray, Brown, Hield, Chriss) but Dunn is the guy who is standing out from the pack and making GMs drool over the idea of obtaining him. If we don't get the offer we want, I'm good with taking Dunn anyway and trading him down the line.

[jpotter33]

I think the high demand for Dunn is going to allow us to make a deal for Butler or another star from a position of strength. Reports before the lottery where that the Lakers were very high on Dunn.

Since then, the Bulls, Sixers, and TWolves are all very high on him, and many people think he can be one of the top 2 players to come out of this draft.I know he doesn't fill a need for our team, but Ainge can easily suggest that he would take Dunn  as the best player available if teams don't take our offers. The market for Dunn is driving up the value of the #3 pick at the right time.

The rest of the pack looks pretty even in terms of value (Bender, Murray, Brown, Hield, Chriss) but Dunn is the guy who is standing out from the pack and making GMs drool over the idea of obtaining him. If we don't get the offer we want, I'm good with taking Dunn anyway and trading him down the line.

Exactly. Dunn BY FAR has the most trade value of that second tier of players, and even if it takes us picking him before someone else gets to him, I bet Danny will do it knowing full well that someone will bite on him, even if it's just Philly with Okafor.