Author Topic: Misconceptions and Myths About Philly Trades  (Read 7607 times)

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Re: Misconceptions and Myths About Philly Trades
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2016, 11:18:54 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Nice to seem a well written thread stopping the 76er thread. The embiid idea in particular does not make much sense. One year of Noel's rookie deal is a factor many also have overlooked
one year of Noel's rookie deal might be one of the key factors that gets them to sell low on him by trading for a guy like Marcus smart.

LB, you offer more for Okafor than die hard Sixer fans expect to get. Chad Ford said Sixers should grab offer of just the 3 pick, indicating that alone is an overpay. I think you are too focused on his 17 point average as a reason to justify the high price. I think the market has in fact moved a bit away from him. You are trying to price him like a new car rather than one that has already been driven a year whose short comings are more evident.
Neither I or sixer fans are sure of what the price for Okafor will be.  We do know that ainge built a package around the Brooklyn pick and offered it for Okafor at the deadline, but philly backed out.  So I guess the question is - has the Brooklyn pick increased or decreased in value now that we know it's 3rd?  On one hand, at the deadline there was still a reasonable chance the pick could end up 1st.  On the other hand, at the deadline there was still a reasonable chance it could have fallen out of the top 5.   So it's hard to say if Phillys interest was based on the potential to land top 2 or not.

We *know* this?

Link?  One that isn't a rumor based on anonymous sources, please.  For once I'd like absolute proof that that is real, since you stated it as an assertion of fact.  Thanks.
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Re: Misconceptions and Myths About Philly Trades
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2016, 12:23:14 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Nice to seem a well written thread stopping the 76er thread. The embiid idea in particular does not make much sense. One year of Noel's rookie deal is a factor many also have overlooked
one year of Noel's rookie deal might be one of the key factors that gets them to sell low on him by trading for a guy like Marcus smart.

LB, you offer more for Okafor than die hard Sixer fans expect to get. Chad Ford said Sixers should grab offer of just the 3 pick, indicating that alone is an overpay. I think you are too focused on his 17 point average as a reason to justify the high price. I think the market has in fact moved a bit away from him. You are trying to price him like a new car rather than one that has already been driven a year whose short comings are more evident.
Neither I or sixer fans are sure of what the price for Okafor will be.  We do know that ainge built a package around the Brooklyn pick and offered it for Okafor at the deadline, but philly backed out.  So I guess the question is - has the Brooklyn pick increased or decreased in value now that we know it's 3rd?  On one hand, at the deadline there was still a reasonable chance the pick could end up 1st.  On the other hand, at the deadline there was still a reasonable chance it could have fallen out of the top 5.   So it's hard to say if Phillys interest was based on the potential to land top 2 or not.

We *know* this?

Link?  One that isn't a rumor based on anonymous sources, please.  For once I'd like absolute proof that that is real, since you stated it as an assertion of fact.  Thanks.
its been covered a bunch.  Ainge was asked if he came close to trading the Brooklyn pick at the deadline.  He said that yes, he had offered a large package including the Brooklyn pick for a player he liked... That it would have had some risk for both teams. And the other team backed out.   It was later reported that he was referring to Okafor.  Multiple sources have since reported that it was Okafor.  Nobody has denied it. 

Bostons interest in Okafor is pretty out in the open at this point. 

Re: Misconceptions and Myths About Philly Trades
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2016, 01:17:24 AM »

Offline mahcus smaht

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Nice to seem a well written thread stopping the 76er thread. The embiid idea in particular does not make much sense. One year of Noel's rookie deal is a factor many also have overlooked
one year of Noel's rookie deal might be one of the key factors that gets them to sell low on him by trading for a guy like Marcus smart.

LB, you offer more for Okafor than die hard Sixer fans expect to get. Chad Ford said Sixers should grab offer of just the 3 pick, indicating that alone is an overpay. I think you are too focused on his 17 point average as a reason to justify the high price. I think the market has in fact moved a bit away from him. You are trying to price him like a new car rather than one that has already been driven a year whose short comings are more evident.
Neither I or sixer fans are sure of what the price for Okafor will be.  We do know that ainge built a package around the Brooklyn pick and offered it for Okafor at the deadline, but philly backed out.  So I guess the question is - has the Brooklyn pick increased or decreased in value now that we know it's 3rd?  On one hand, at the deadline there was still a reasonable chance the pick could end up 1st.  On the other hand, at the deadline there was still a reasonable chance it could have fallen out of the top 5.   So it's hard to say if Phillys interest was based on the potential to land top 2 or not.

We *know* this?

Link?  One that isn't a rumor based on anonymous sources, please.  For once I'd like absolute proof that that is real, since you stated it as an assertion of fact.  Thanks.
its been covered a bunch.  Ainge was asked if he came close to trading the Brooklyn pick at the deadline.  He said that yes, he had offered a large package including the Brooklyn pick for a player he liked... That it would have had some risk for both teams. And the other team backed out.   It was later reported that he was referring to Okafor.  Multiple sources have since reported that it was Okafor.  Nobody has denied it. 

Bostons interest in Okafor is pretty out in the open at this point.
It was also reported numerous times that we inquired about every single high profile player that was thought to be any where remotely close to the trading block.

I do think that it is basically confirmed we offered the Brooklyn pick and something fairly valuable for Okafor but it is not actually confirmed. I know you love your Philly bigs and any rumor that backs up the idea that they are really valuable you really want to jump all over, but you are making a pretty big jump to say a bunch of people speculated it and then some people reported it and no one really denied it, so it is confirmed fact.

I mean he could have just as easily been talking about Butler (makes more sense in terms of the 2-way risk), Cousins, anyone really. I remember reading some report that I believe used the quote "used all star rosters as a calling list"

Re: Misconceptions and Myths About Philly Trades
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2016, 01:23:20 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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Nice to seem a well written thread stopping the 76er thread. The embiid idea in particular does not make much sense. One year of Noel's rookie deal is a factor many also have overlooked
one year of Noel's rookie deal might be one of the key factors that gets them to sell low on him by trading for a guy like Marcus smart.

LB, you offer more for Okafor than die hard Sixer fans expect to get. Chad Ford said Sixers should grab offer of just the 3 pick, indicating that alone is an overpay. I think you are too focused on his 17 point average as a reason to justify the high price. I think the market has in fact moved a bit away from him. You are trying to price him like a new car rather than one that has already been driven a year whose short comings are more evident.
Neither I or sixer fans are sure of what the price for Okafor will be.  We do know that ainge built a package around the Brooklyn pick and offered it for Okafor at the deadline, but philly backed out.  So I guess the question is - has the Brooklyn pick increased or decreased in value now that we know it's 3rd?  On one hand, at the deadline there was still a reasonable chance the pick could end up 1st.  On the other hand, at the deadline there was still a reasonable chance it could have fallen out of the top 5.   So it's hard to say if Phillys interest was based on the potential to land top 2 or not.

We *know* this?

Link?  One that isn't a rumor based on anonymous sources, please.  For once I'd like absolute proof that that is real, since you stated it as an assertion of fact.  Thanks.
its been covered a bunch.  Ainge was asked if he came close to trading the Brooklyn pick at the deadline.  He said that yes, he had offered a large package including the Brooklyn pick for a player he liked... That it would have had some risk for both teams. And the other team backed out.   It was later reported that he was referring to Okafor.  Multiple sources have since reported that it was Okafor.  Nobody has denied it. 

Bostons interest in Okafor is pretty out in the open at this point.
It was also reported numerous times that we inquired about every single high profile player that was thought to be any where remotely close to the trading block.

I do think that it is basically confirmed we offered the Brooklyn pick and something fairly valuable for Okafor but it is not actually confirmed. I know you love your Philly bigs and any rumor that backs up the idea that they are really valuable you really want to jump all over, but you are making a pretty big jump to say a bunch of people speculated it and then some people reported it and no one really denied it, so it is confirmed fact.

I mean he could have just as easily been talking about Butler (makes more sense in terms of the 2-way risk), Cousins, anyone really. I remember reading some report that I believe used the quote "used all star rosters as a calling list"

It was "confirmed" by a few posters on this blog but never by anyone official that I saw. At the time it seemed like people that liked Okafor took the no comments as proof. In reality it kind of seems like it could have been butler.

Re: Misconceptions and Myths About Philly Trades
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2016, 03:40:35 AM »

Offline GC003332

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Celticsblog, it's time to get over the obsession with semi-failed Philly big man draft picks. Almost every proposed trade on this forum involves the #3 pick for some Philadelphia big man that they've drafted over the last 3 seasons. Almost every proposed trade is an absolutely boneheaded idea. Here's why.

First of all, I'd encourage folks to read my post here about misconceptions about the #3 pick: http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=84600.0. But to be specific, the #3 pick is worth far more than most people believe. This draft isn't exceptional but by no means does it appear to be weak. It appears to be a typical draft class. Here's the last of the last 11 #3 picks with enough time gone by to start to judge their careers:

Otto Porter
Beal
Kanter
Favors
Harden
OJ Mayo
Hortford
Morrison
Deron Williams
Ben Gordon
'Melo

Since this is only #3, I didn't include superstars like Cousins, Curry, Paul, Wade and Westbrook - all of whom were selected between #4 and #7. I like those odds.

Bust: 1 (Morrison)
Role Player: 2 (Porter, Mayo)
Above-Average: 3 (Kanter, Beal, Favors)
All-Stars: 3 (Hortford, Williams, Gordon)
Superstars: 2 (Melo, Harden)

Not all of those drafts were considered stacked. In fact, most of them were seen like this one - average with one or two clear-cut guys at the top. Yet the #3 pick turned out almost half the time to be an All-Star - and it's quite possible Favors, Kanter and/or Beal end up making an All Star game. By the way, this 11 year span isn't an aberration. Since 1980 the #3 pick has a 49% chance of being an All-Star!

Simply put, historically the pick is worth a lot. Now to consider moving it for any of the Philly bigs, the first assumption you have to make is that the pick isn't that valuable and that any player you draft isn't going to be anything special. Now it's quite possible to make that assumption but anyone who does has to realize that they are making an assumption that bucks a long-standing historical trend. It's not rational or reasonable to try to write off the All-Stars as being drafted in stacked draft classes since 50% of the drafts can't be stacked!

In addition, here are some trades for the #3 overall pick in recent memory:

#3 for #6, #27 and a future 1st.
#3 for Shareef Abdur-Rahim (who was 25, putting up 20/9 and had win shares of around 8 for the past 4 seasons)
#3 for #5 plus Mike Miller (16ppg that year)

All 3 of these trades show that the #3 pick has quite a high worth. We're not talking role-player territory here folks. We're talking about a fair chance at a very valuable contributor.

Ok, so let's turn to the Philly bigs. All of them have potential of course. Otherwise they wouldn't be drafted where they were. But if the Cs use the #3 to acquire any of these guys it's quite likely it's going to look like a repeat of the Jrue Holiday trade. How did that work out for the Pelicans? Why do I think this? Let's look at the 3 contestants:

Stooge #1 - Nerlens Noel

Noel is a 22 year old defensive stalwart with a very limited offensive game. Picked 6th overall 3 years ago, he only has 1 year left on his rookie contract before he's a RFA. Noel has been solid and steady but has shown little growth in his game, averaging 11 points and 8 boards per game. He's a solid young big man but he's neither a superstar nor an All-Star. He's a 3 win share player and that's simply not good enough for the #3 pick. And of the 3 Philly big men, he's the guy I would want the most. He's just not worth a Brooklyn pick. Not when you consider production. Not when you consider contract status. I'd like to see him in green but not for that price.

Stooge #2 - Embiid

People who want to offer the #3 pick for Embiid are clearly out of their minds. All Embiid had entering the NBA was potential but it's important to remember Embiid was NEVER considered a sure-fire superstar when he was picked. There were serious questions about his durability, injury history, his lack of polish (6 fouls per 40 minutes), turnovers, lower body strength, defensive and offensive awareness and even his motivation. His draft position was based on his rare physical gifts and great upside. But he was considered raw, like steak tartare-raw. But because he was so young there was time to work with him and that was considered a mitigating factor. Now here we are two years later. He hasn't played at all. There are still questions about his health. His rookie contract is 1/2 done and he hasn't seen the court. He hasn't played in a competitive game of basketball for over 2 years. Why would anyone think his value has increased?

Some may think pursuing a trade for Embiid is "swinging for the fences". It's more like "Walter Mitty Pipe Dream". There's just no possible way you can consider him for a pick that already has a 50% chance of being an All-Star when there's a fair possibility that Embiid never plays meaningful minutes in the NBA. Is he worth it if there's a good opportunity to get him? Sure. Is he worth #3? Not by a long shot.

Stooge #3 - Oakfor

This one is the most talked about and is the one that should be the most feared. I'd encourage everyone to read this: http://www.todaysfastbreak.com/boston-celtics/celtics-avoid-jahlil-okafor-costs/. Every single advanced metric says that Okafor was absolutely horrible last season. His biggest claim to fame is his offense. Some people want to point to his 17ppg as some sort of barometer that he's a great offensive player. Except Philly was 7.5 points better on offense when he was off the court. Think about that for a second - Okafor's best claim to fame is his offense and yet Philly was clearly better when he was sitting on the bench. That is an incredibly [dang]ing statistic because if Okafor isn't valuable on the offensive end, what good is he? It's quite simple - someone has to put up some statistics for Philly (aka Jrue Holiday) but it's foolish to attribute those to being anything but empty stats. And yet some actually advocate adding more to the trade! Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater...

Now that's not to say that Okafor, Embiid or Noel don't somehow blossom later in their careers or in a new environment. But none of the 3 are worth the #3 overall pick. Teams only trade a pick that high for an exceptional young talent or an All-Star and none of these guys fit that role.

Assuming Philly does not trade down, they're going to probably take Simmons. Noel. Embiid, Okafor. Simmons. That's a massive log jam in the front court and they're going to have to move someone. Like Danny and his 8 picks in this years' draft, it's not going to be a fire sale. But it's also clear that none of these guys are so good that Philly has the league over a barrel. No one is giving them a top 3 pick for these guys. Neither should the Celtics.

TP for the write up

From where i stand , a great majority of the Sixers trade proposals are written for attention seeking purposes only and should be viewed as such and given no merit.

Re: Misconceptions and Myths About Philly Trades
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2016, 03:46:30 AM »

Offline LGC88

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I don't believe Danny offer the Brooklyn pick + value for Okafor.
Unless they see something nobody see, I don't understand why he will do that.
Okafor is a good post player, but he won't make you win.
Stats back up this.

As for Embid, it is ridiculous to offer a top 10 pick for him, obviously.

Noel is a different story, he still have great potential. But I won't give #3 for him. He's not that good.

The return for #3 is an all star player, not less.
I prefer to draft Brown or whoever Danny think has the highest upside.

Re: Misconceptions and Myths About Philly Trades
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2016, 03:56:21 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Nice to seem a well written thread stopping the 76er thread. The embiid idea in particular does not make much sense. One year of Noel's rookie deal is a factor many also have overlooked
one year of Noel's rookie deal might be one of the key factors that gets them to sell low on him by trading for a guy like Marcus smart.

LB, you offer more for Okafor than die hard Sixer fans expect to get. Chad Ford said Sixers should grab offer of just the 3 pick, indicating that alone is an overpay. I think you are too focused on his 17 point average as a reason to justify the high price. I think the market has in fact moved a bit away from him. You are trying to price him like a new car rather than one that has already been driven a year whose short comings are more evident.
Neither I or sixer fans are sure of what the price for Okafor will be.  We do know that ainge built a package around the Brooklyn pick and offered it for Okafor at the deadline, but philly backed out.  So I guess the question is - has the Brooklyn pick increased or decreased in value now that we know it's 3rd?  On one hand, at the deadline there was still a reasonable chance the pick could end up 1st.  On the other hand, at the deadline there was still a reasonable chance it could have fallen out of the top 5.   So it's hard to say if Phillys interest was based on the potential to land top 2 or not.

We *know* this?

Link?  One that isn't a rumor based on anonymous sources, please.  For once I'd like absolute proof that that is real, since you stated it as an assertion of fact.  Thanks.
its been covered a bunch.  Ainge was asked if he came close to trading the Brooklyn pick at the deadline.  He said that yes, he had offered a large package including the Brooklyn pick for a player he liked... That it would have had some risk for both teams. And the other team backed out.   It was later reported that he was referring to Okafor.  Multiple sources have since reported that it was Okafor.  Nobody has denied it. 

Bostons interest in Okafor is pretty out in the open at this point.
It was also reported numerous times that we inquired about every single high profile player that was thought to be any where remotely close to the trading block.

It goes without saying that Ainge would inquire about dozens of players.  This is a no-brainer.  It's the job of the GM.  As such, it's been reported that they inquired about Horford, inquired about Kevin Love, and inquired about Jimmy Butler.  We can speculate he also inquired about Paul George, DeMarcus Cousins, Dwight Howard and probably several others.  That's literally what a GM is supposed to do.  You make offers hoping for an upgrade.  That doesn't mean any of those offers come close to being accepted.

Don't confuse this obvious aspect of being a GM with what we know.  We know that Ainge was literally asked in an interview if he came close to acquiring anyone with the Brooklyn pick.  Ainge confirmed that he did indeed come close to acquiring a player for a large package involving the Brooklyn pick.   Ainge himself said that the other team backed out last second.  That player was later reported to be Jahlil Okafor.  Some fans don't want to believe it, so they are trying to associate it with guys like Jimmy Butler.  Nobody has reported Boston came close to acquiring Jimmy Butler.

Quote
The Boston Celtics came "very close" to including the Brooklyn Nets pick in a blockbuster trade before the other team backed out at the "very last minute," team president of basketball operations Danny Ainge revealed Friday morning.

"One story I probably can share with you is -- I can't tell you the team or the name -- but it was very close," Ainge said in a interview with 98.5 The Sports Hub, according to Mass Live's Jay King. "It's something that we had been deliberating on for two days straight. The other team was doing that, and we were wrapping ourselves around a big package to do a deal. And at the very last minute they just said they did not want to do it. They just backed out. So it was a deal that was talked about, thought about, and that was probably the closest that we came."

Later was confirmed by the Boston Herald that he was referring to Okafor:  http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/2016/02/bulpett_celtics_made_the_smart_choice_at_trade_deadline

Quote
The trade could have been massive. The 2016 unprotected first-round draft pick the Brooklyn Nets owe the Celtics -- one of the league's best assets because the Nets are one of the worst teams in the league -- was involved in the package that was discussed, according to WBZ Newsradio 1030' Adam Kaufman. Ainge said the other front office, which we now know is Philadelphia, decided to keep the player, even if the offer increased.

Nobody has denied it was Okafor.  The only person (Bulpett) to even report that Boston inquired about Jimmy BUtler is the same person who confirmed Ainge was referring to Okafor.  It was Okafor.  And there's a reason why we continued to be linked to Philly in a potential trade for Okafor - it's widely known we almost traded for him at the deadline and Ainge himself said the talks might be revisited. 

This seed was planted even before the trade deadline.  Prior to the 2015 draft it was reported that Ainge was prepared to make a godfather offer for Okafor if he fell to #3:  http://nesn.com/2015/06/report-celtics-could-make-godfather-offer-to-get-jahlil-okafor-at-no-3/ 

He's been our target.  Ainge wouldn't let a single underwhelming season in Philly dissuade him from getting his target.  This is the same guy who traded the #7 pick in 2006 for Sebastian Telfair, because he believed in Telfair's potential more than what was available at #7.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 04:07:41 AM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Misconceptions and Myths About Philly Trades
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2016, 04:06:55 AM »

Offline LGC88

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This is not a proof.
Plus, they mention "bigger package".

Re: Misconceptions and Myths About Philly Trades
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2016, 04:08:16 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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This is not a proof.
Plus, they mention "bigger package".
Exactly.   We offered the Brooklyn pick as part of a bigger package.  What else were we offering for Okafor?  Bradley? Rozier?  Additional picks?

And no, it's not proof, because Ainge isn't going to outright admit that he tried trading for Okafor (yet).  But that's who multiple sources have reported he was referring to.  Nobody has claimed otherwise.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 04:13:38 AM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Misconceptions and Myths About Philly Trades
« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2016, 04:13:08 AM »

Offline LGC88

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This is not a proof.
Plus, they mention "bigger package".
Exactly.   We offered the Brooklyn pick as part of a bigger package.  What else were we offering for Okafor?  Bradley? Rozier?  Additional picks?

And no, it's not proof, because Ainge isn't going to outright admit that he tried trading for Okafor (yet).  But that's who multiple sources have reported he was referring to.  Nobody has claimed otherwise.

Again, he could mean about anything.
Maybe Smart was involved and the philly pick swap too.
That's why I'm saying, I don't believe Danny give pick + player only for Okafor. It makes no sense at all.

Re: Misconceptions and Myths About Philly Trades
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2016, 04:17:46 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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This is not a proof.
Plus, they mention "bigger package".
Exactly.   We offered the Brooklyn pick as part of a bigger package.  What else were we offering for Okafor?  Bradley? Rozier?  Additional picks?

And no, it's not proof, because Ainge isn't going to outright admit that he tried trading for Okafor (yet).  But that's who multiple sources have reported he was referring to.  Nobody has claimed otherwise.

Again, he could mean about anything.
Maybe Smart was involved and the philly pick swap too.
That's why I'm saying, I don't believe Danny give pick + player only for Okafor. It makes no sense at all.
Go listen to the actual recorded interview.  Ainge was point-blank asked if he had come close to moving the Brooklyn pick for a player.  AInge confirmed that that yes, he came close to landing a player for a large package built around the Brooklyn pick.  He wasn't going to name names, but it was a specific player.  He said the other team backed out of the deal and that maybe they will eventually revisit it.   It was later reported that he was referring to Jahlil Okafor.   It makes perfect sense.   

Two things happened that cause folks like you to think it doesn't make sense.

#1 - It was misreported that Ainge said he almost landed a star.  Ainge never said it was a star.  Listen to the interview.  At no point does he say they almost landed a star. 

#2 - Some people just really hate the idea of trading for Jahlil Okafor and wanted it to be Jimmy Butler.  Unfortunately, it was Jahlil Okafor.

The funny thing is, Bulpett reported it was Okafor.  Later, ESPN, CBS Sports, Fox Sports, Bill Simmons, dozens of Boston-area publications, and dozens of Philly-area publications relayed the report that it was Okafor.   But some people are still in denial about it.  They think there needs to be multiple people confirming first-hand that it was Okafor.   They want independent first-hand confirmations that it was Okafor.  It's ridiculous.  Bulpett broke the story.  Others credited Bulpett with breaking the story.  Nobody reported an alternative, because there was no alternative.  Nobody independently confirmed it, because it was unnecessary - the story was out in the open and Bulpett was the one who broke it.  The bottom line is that the trade didn't happen, because Philly backed out.  Ainge said they might revisit it.  Now that we know the pick is #3, there continues to be rumblings we'll try to trade the pick for Okafor.  We'll see what happens one way or the other. 

Re: Misconceptions and Myths About Philly Trades
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2016, 04:38:49 AM »

Offline LGC88

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I never imply it was a star.
I never imply he never tried for Okafor.
All I'm saying is that I don't believe Ainge gave pick + value player for okafor only, and on top of that philly refused?
Not happening.
The trade was a "bigger package" as he said in the interview.
And yes I agree, okafor was included in the discussion "as reported".

Re: Misconceptions and Myths About Philly Trades
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2016, 04:55:34 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I never imply it was a star.
I never imply he never tried for Okafor.
All I'm saying is that I don't believe Ainge gave pick + value player for okafor only, and on top of that philly refused?
Not happening.
Sure it could have happened.   At the time, the Brooklyn pick still could have landed top 2, but it also could have fallen out of the top 5.  Why give up a known entity like Okafor for a pick that might end up being a player significantly worse?  Especially when you consider Okafor might be better long-term than every player in the 2016 Draft.  Also, from the perspective of Philly it makes total sense why they'd turn that down.  This was in February.   There were in the midst of a regime transition and trying to sell the fans on the idea that "tanking" was over.  What kind of message does it send if you then trade your best player for a future pick?  That's the exact behavior that people freaked out about for the past few years when they traded Holiday for an injured player and future pick, traded MCW for a future pick, traded Elfrid Payton for a player stuck overseas... can you imagine the outrage if they then followed up all of that by trading Okafor for a pick that might end up being a total bum?   

For a team that was trying to pretend their tanking days were over, trading their best player for a future pick sure as hell qualifies as adding fuel to the tank.  Definitely can't blame them for turning it down.

The unknown of the pick and the situation surrounding the team obviously contributed to Philly turning down the offer.   It's a different story come draft night, where we know the pick is #3, and Philly will know exactly who is available and the Philly fans will not have to once again punt on the present for a player they will not see suit up for a year.

And fwiw, while te key piece was the Brooklyn pick, that doesn't necessarily mean the "big package" included guys like Marcus Smart.  Maybe they were also throwing in secondary pieces like Rozier, Hunter, Young and future late picks to get the deal done.  We know that Ainge tried giving up 6 picks... 4 of which were first rounders (including a Brooklyn 1st) just to trade up for Winslow.  We can assume the other 3 picks included last year's #16 (Rozier), #26 (Hunter) and probably a future Celtic pick or #33 (Mickey).  Presumably, he would have given up even more to get Okafor at #3 last year.  So just based on that, an offer of Brooklyn pick, Rozier, Hunter, Mickey and and a couple later picks check all the logic boxes and also qualifies as a "large package built around the Brooklyn pick". 
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 05:03:01 AM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Misconceptions and Myths About Philly Trades
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2016, 06:37:15 AM »

Offline Celtics18

  • Ed Macauley
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Well, thanks for the "proof," Lar.
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Misconceptions and Myths About Philly Trades
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2016, 07:33:06 AM »

Offline JumpingJudkins

  • Al Horford
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Bust: 1 (Morrison)
Role Player: 2 (Porter, Mayo)
Above-Average: 3 (Kanter, Beal, Favors)
All-Stars: 3 (Hortford, Williams, Gordon)
Superstars: 2 (Melo, Harden)


Minor quibble with the underlying rankings. I don't think Ben Gordon qualifies as All-Star. Above Average maybe. And Enes Kanter could make a pretty good argument for being a role player.