Author Topic: The problem for Ainge with trading  (Read 9510 times)

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Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #60 on: May 30, 2016, 08:09:38 PM »

Offline billysan

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As much as people like to cast off AB, he is in the upper echelon of sg's in the NBA surprising enough.  I'd take him any day as a starting player over a lot of shooting guards.  He isn't a big stat guy but there are a million guards out there that hurt you a lot more than they help.  We win because of players like AB and lose when we don't have him on the floor for a reason.

He's not in the top class of NBA shooting guards but he's right below them.
Tier 1
Klay Thompson
James Harden
Dwayne Wade
Jimmy Butler
McCollum
Derozan
Tier 2
Bradley
Middleton
Wiggins
Redick

Thats probably how Id parse em out, maybe Booker belongs in that second tier

Yeah Bradley is a top 10 sg right after the top 6.  Isaiah is a top 5 pg as well.  Crowder is a top 15 small forward. But people still see these guys as 7th men in the nba for some reason.  We need better players and a couple guys who are tops but all 3 of those guys were in the top half at their respective positions last year.

IMO AB is an undersized 3 and D SG. A very good one for sure, but he is paired with a 3 and D SF in Crowder. Neither is a viable 3rd, let alone 2nd option offensively. We need a for real 2nd or even 1st option go to scorer, preferably both to compliment our current roster.
"First fix their hearts" -Eizo Shimabuku

Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #61 on: May 30, 2016, 08:22:34 PM »

Offline loco_91

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As much as people like to cast off AB, he is in the upper echelon of sg's in the NBA surprising enough.  I'd take him any day as a starting player over a lot of shooting guards.  He isn't a big stat guy but there are a million guards out there that hurt you a lot more than they help.  We win because of players like AB and lose when we don't have him on the floor for a reason.

He's not in the top class of NBA shooting guards but he's right below them.
Tier 1
Klay Thompson
James Harden
Dwayne Wade
Jimmy Butler
McCollum
Derozan
Tier 2
Bradley
Middleton
Wiggins
Redick

Thats probably how Id parse em out, maybe Booker belongs in that second tier

Yeah Bradley is a top 10 sg right after the top 6.  Isaiah is a top 5 pg as well.  Crowder is a top 15 small forward. But people still see these guys as 7th men in the nba for some reason.  We need better players and a couple guys who are tops but all 3 of those guys were in the top half at their respective positions last year.

IMO AB is an undersized 3 and D SG. A very good one for sure, but he is paired with a 3 and D SF in Crowder. Neither is a viable 3rd, let alone 2nd option offensively. We need a for real 2nd or even 1st option go to scorer, preferably both to compliment our current roster.

I think those guys are perfectly viable 3rd and 4th options, if not ideal ones. Right now they're miscast as #2 and #3 options behind IT, which obviously isn't going to bring you any banners. Add in a stud like Cousins or KD, and everything changes dramatically.

Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #62 on: May 30, 2016, 08:50:59 PM »

Offline oldtype

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Imagine for a moment what a team like the Thunder would give up to have Bradley right now. If they had any assets with trade value at all, they would give us all of them.

Obviously superstars and elite prospects/draft picks are worth more than other things, but that doesn't mean those other things are worthless. Bradley and Crowder are probably two of the most valuable assets from that "other things" tier in the entire league .


Great words from a great man

Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #63 on: May 30, 2016, 09:13:33 PM »

Offline BDeCosta26

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Our assets just aren't worth that much, partly because they haven't achieved anything or in some cases players are just worth way more to us than to other teams

This is most likely how teams view our players


Smart....can't shoot, can't pass. Can't get calls from officials. Can't stay healthy due to style of play

Zeller...bad. Nice 3rd or 4th center

AB...nice 7th man on a nice contract

IT...great player. Great contract. Great 4th best player on a team. Needs to be paid like that. Won't want to be after being an all star

Jae Crowder. ...great starter or 6th man on a great contract. Probably one of our best assets

Amir....fine player on fine contract. Whoop de doc

Jordan Mickey...good prospect on good contract. Not worth top 12 pick.

Rozier.....see Jordan Mickey. Might be worth 11th or 12th pick in a weak draft

RJ H....see Rozier...Maybe worth a 15th pick or so in weak draft

Young....maybe worth a mid 2nd rounder

KO...fine 8th man.  Maybe even 7th man.  Ok asset, but not something you get worked up about

3rd pick in two player draft....whoop de doo

Other picks....even less whoop de doo.

You can't expect fireworks like this. This team should stay the course and not sell low.

Holy cheese balls. Even LB33 isn't that pessimistic, and he's often the king of pessimism.

Look, every asset can't be A+. Outside of Pierce and Big Al (key pieces obviously) we have much better assets to play with now, both on our roster and in the form of draft picks this time around. These "fireworks" your so desperate for take a combination of assets and opportunity. We have the assets, and the opportunity comes whenever it comes, not when you or any of us want.

As for your evaluation of our assets, I'd say most people around the league would think your really undervaluing them.

For instance, Smart shot 34% from 3 on high attempts his rookie year, he struggled some this year but his shot isn't really broken. But what really gets me is that you think he's a bad passer? Are you even watching the games? Smart has shown above average court vision since he came into this league, and last year he clearly made a step forward in that regard, regularly displaying high level passing skills. And it's not like he's hurt all the time or as some chronic injury problem. As an asset, Smart has high value, because he could play big minutes on a contender right now, has DPOY potential, and a high offensive ceiling.

AB is one of, if not the, best on-ball defender in the league. He's an above-average 3 point shooter, excellent cutter, super-athletic, and has improved every single year he's been here. Do you think prime TA was a valuable asset? Of course he was. What if he had a jump shot? Even better of an asset. Bradley could fit on almost any team outside of the super-tank group. I mean honestly, #3 and AB is a legit offer for a guy like Okafor (I wouldn't do that trade, but a lot of people would), and that's the kind of move you want right? It's insulting to call him a 7th man on a contender. That dude would start for almost every team in this league. OKC would kill for a guy like him. And he makes only 8M a year. Very valuable asset.

Thomas proved unequivocally this year that he's capable of being one of your three best players. If it was Thomas/Durant/Butler you'd have a contender. 6M$ a year is criminally low for a guy as good as he is. IT is an asset. But he's better off staying here. Crowder at 7M$ is criminally low too. That's a guy who's a huge asset, because of the giant leap he made offensively this season. He can shoot, drive and is becoming a better passer. He's a All-NBA level defender who can play 3 positions, and is a guy who could start on a contender right now. Plus, at 25 years old, could become even better. There's a reason he's the piece teams are after when talking to Danny. It's not crazy to think he could give you 18/7/4 with elite defense and leadership in a year or two.

Amir is a guy who has a very tradeable contract and could help someone right now. His presence made us a top 5 defense this year, make no mistake about it. Him and Jerebko are very tradeable. KO is as well, though he only has 1 year left on his rookie deal, he's a guy who's proven an ability to be a viable stretch 4/5, his defense has really improved, and is only 24 or 25 himself. As for the rookies, Rozier probably has the most value, because he proved late in the year to be an NBA caliber player. Better off keeping them and developing them though

I think people really start to dismiss your opinion based on your value of the draft picks. We have the THIRD pick in the draft for god sakes. At this time last year you would've jumped for joy had you known that was going to happen. Last year was supposed to be a two player draft too, but then Russell shot up to 2, leaving Okafor at 3. That pick is a super valuable asset, 48 win teams don't often get Top 3 picks. You shouldn't poo-poo that pick like it doesn't have high value, it does.

Same goes for the future Nets picks. Goodman was on CelticsBeat saying that the 2017 pick swap is our most valuable asset because the 2017 class is dso deep, and it's much more likely than not that the pick ends up in the high lottery. After seeing how valuable the 2016 Brooklyn pick was, and the fact that Brooklyn isn't getting much better very soon, other teams now that pick is worth a lot too. On top of that, we have a likely lottery pick from them in 2018 too. Now, if we were trying to make a trade for a super-star, who's gonna beat our package? The Lakers have #2 and a few young guys, but if you trade #2 and Russell, who do you have left? And is #2 and Russell really a better offer than #3, Smart/Bradley, #16 and a likely top 5 pick next year? I don't think so. It's a mistake to undervalue the future Brooklyn picks the way you are, even the Memphis pick in 2018/19.

Sure, maybe it doesn't help that Wyc goes on the radio telling people he expects big moves, but maybe you should be a little more patient. Were in year 3 of a rebuild. It's unrealistic to expect any more than we've gotten so far. I mean Jesus, that post was so ridiculously pessimistic it's hard to take seriously. Even Laker fans value our assets more than that.