Author Topic: The problem for Ainge with trading  (Read 9507 times)

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Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2016, 01:10:54 AM »

Offline mahcus smaht

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By the way you do realize if AB is so great and a starter....that means....Rozier and Smart aren't worth as much because that means they're not, right?

You do realize we can't try to sell our non starters as starters, right?  We can't tell people we have like 9 starters from a team that didn't get past the first round of the playoffs.

So when we offer AB, the 3 pick, and Smart.....one of those things isn't so valuable. It's either Smart or AB.  They can't both start for the team we trade them to. Just like they don't both start for us.

Good logic. Really great, bravo.
TP

Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2016, 01:25:46 AM »

Offline Sixth Man

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What do you guys actually think a first team all defensive player who isn't an all star is worth? 

That would be Tony Allen.
Andrew Bogut was 2nd team last year
Roy Hibbert and Patrick Beverly two years ago....wait...was Hibbert an all star then? He has made one star game I think.
Anderson Varejo and Thabo Sefalosa in 2009-10
Shane Battier and Bruce Bowen and Marcus Camby back in 07-08

Do you suppose the Celtics phone is just blowing up over Avery Bradley? You think Ainge is just sifting through offers that are tough to decide about because Avery has made an all defensive team?  Because he's not. It's not happening. There isn't a single team out there sorta gathering up assets to make a big run at Bradley. It's not happening. And when Ainge makes a call and says "Ok, so for Okafor I'd offer Bradley and ...." if the very next thing out of his mouth isn't "the third pick and..." the next thing he hears is "click."

Okafor....he is an asset. He is an asset because he has a possibility of going to multiple all star games. Like between 3 and 7. Bradley miiiiigggghhhhhtttt get to one.

I am so so so tired of hearing how wonderfully great the All Defensive team is. Like if you could just put together a team of the guys I mentioned up above you would be more than a 5 seed. When you were a kid did you have pictures of Bruce Bowen on your wall? Did anyone? No. They didn't. They had pictures of all stars and various players that averaged over 20 points per game unless your team made the three seed and was eliminated in the first round of the playoffs in which case maybe you had a picture of an all defensive player on your wall.

Congratulations, you successfully defeated the straw man you made up and proceded to beat it onto the ground

No one's suggesting that AB is an all star.  But (correct me if I'm wrong), do you need to be an all star to be one of the top 6 guys on a contender?  Or to start on a contender?

Bradley would be a starter on the Cavs or OKC (not GSW, Klay Thompson is better).  I'd say that makes him better than the 7th man on a contender, but that's just me
Oh ok. I guess he'd be like the 5th or 6th best guy on those teams. So what's the great thing we can get for him?  Now that he's the 5th best guy on one of those teams.

So, a starter?  Do you see how a starter is a significant upgrade from a 7th man?  If you do, then you can understand why no one can take the original post seriously.  It's so pessimistic it's not even funny
Ok. So what's the great thing we can get for him? Cmon let's hear it. Let's hear about the thing we can get for AB. Or hey we could combine AB and the 3 pick and get...what? What will we get? Okafor? Yeah I don't think so, but go ahead and answer the question.  Tell us all how wonderfully great an asset he is and what we can expect to get.

I say we can't expect much with this group of players. What do you suppose we can get?
philly fans have suggested bradley plus the third pick as a fair offer for okafor....which coming from philly fans show they respect bradley and know hes a good player. The sky isnt falling chicken little.
And if we were making trades with fans then we'd be in good shape.

And if you were negotiating trades on behalf of the Celtics, you'd be laughed right out of the NBA.

Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2016, 01:28:10 AM »

Offline Evantime34

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If none of our guys are worth anything in the open market like the op suggests then we should just keep them.

This team won 48 games this year and was the youngest team in the playoffs. If our players are under valued around the league I'm fine adding the third pick and quality free agents to an already good team.

BTW I don't buy the argument that our players aren't good and we won 48 games because Stevens is magic.
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Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2016, 02:44:43 AM »

Offline alldaboston

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This is such a sad post.

Is this going to be the norm for the offseason? smh. Will Danny ever be able to satisfy anyone?
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2016, 02:54:01 AM »

Offline Greyman

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If none of our guys are worth anything in the open market like the op suggests then we should just keep them.

This team won 48 games this year and was the youngest team in the playoffs. If our players are under valued around the league I'm fine adding the third pick and quality free agents to an already good team.

BTW I don't buy the argument that our players aren't good and we won 48 games because Stevens is magic.

Seems in a lot of threads Celtic's fans are happy to dismiss the players who achieved quite a bit over the last two seasons. Sure, the team needs upgrades to compete beyond the first round of the playoffs. If DA can't get those players this off season it won't be because he has nothing to trade with. They will either be a bridge too far, as they are happy in the winning team they are in, or the other party will be asking too much.

I am not banking on the Celtics being a championship level team next year (or betting against it) but I am convinced DA has enough going on to make improvements.

Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #35 on: May 30, 2016, 03:29:03 AM »

Offline walker834

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I agree a lot of teams that are successful don't go from worst to first like we did with Ray, Paul and KG.  the warriors were a really bad team.  Lost in the 1st round a couple years and semis then won a championship.  This whole reasoning we are stuck in no man's land is silly.  Most teams actually do it that way.

Right now we have a young team with a lot of room to get better.  We aren't the hawks.  We don't have a bunch of average star players locked in max deals. Totally different situation.

A  lot of teams aren't going to hand us a championship but with smart trades, free agent signings and drafting we are fine.

« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 03:34:15 AM by walker834 »

Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2016, 03:40:32 AM »

Offline LGC88

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I agree a lot of teams that are successful don't go from worst to first like we did with Ray, Paul and KG.  the warriors were a really bad team.  Lost in the 1st round a couple years and semis then won a championship.  This whole reasoning we are stuck in no man's land is silly.  Most teams actually do it that way.

Right now we have a young team with a lot of room to get better.  We aren't the hawks.  We don't have a bunch of average star players locked in max deals. Totally different situation.

A  lot of teams aren't going to hand us a championship but with smart trades, free agent signings and drafting we are fine.

Exactly, what makes you in the middle pack and not winning championship is having big contracts on above average players. Most teams do that mistake (because it's the only way to attract those players).
This year, a lot of teams will jeopardized their future. I know Danny won't do that and will prefer to be patient if no one is trading with him.
Some like to think that it is a failure. In fact, it's exactly the opposite of it.

Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #37 on: May 30, 2016, 05:02:49 AM »

Offline colincb

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AB...nice 7th man on a nice contract

This is where I stopped reading.  If a 1st-team all defender that averaged 15 ppg with 36% shooting from 3 and over 50% on 2 pointers is someone that you think would only be the 7th best player on a contender, I don't think I need to read any more

TP. I actually stopped there, scanned a few comments, and found my response already written.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 05:12:21 AM by colincb »

Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #38 on: May 30, 2016, 06:48:55 AM »

Offline Granath

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Delonte, top 5 pick, Al Jefferson, Seabass, Wally, Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes > top 3 pick, Smart, Rozier, RJ, Jordan Mickey, KO, Jae, AB

The group you think is better? It won 24 games.
The group you think is worse? It won 48 games. And it has the higher draft pick.

Thanks for playing, please try again.
Ok. Then let's see the fireworks. Looking forward to it. I guess we're winning the championship next year.

Perhaps it's possible the market has changed

If that's the best you can do then:

/thread

Thanks for playing, please try again.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #39 on: May 30, 2016, 07:10:40 AM »

Offline DavorCroatiaFan

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Our assets just aren't worth that much, partly because they haven't achieved anything or in some cases players are just worth way more to us than to other teams

This is most likely how teams view our players


Smart....can't shoot, can't pass. Can't get calls from officials. Can't stay healthy due to style of play

Zeller...bad. Nice 3rd or 4th center

AB...nice 7th man on a nice contract

IT...great player. Great contract. Great 4th best player on a team. Needs to be paid like that. Won't want to be after being an all star

Jae Crowder. ...great starter or 6th man on a great contract. Probably one of our best assets

Amir....fine player on fine contract. Whoop de doc

Jordan Mickey...good prospect on good contract. Not worth top 12 pick.

Rozier.....see Jordan Mickey. Might be worth 11th or 12th pick in a weak draft

RJ H....see Rozier...Maybe worth a 15th pick or so in weak draft

Young....maybe worth a mid 2nd rounder

KO...fine 8th man.  Maybe even 7th man.  Ok asset, but not something you get worked up about

3rd pick in two player draft....whoop de doo

Other picks....even less whoop de doo.

You can't expect fireworks like this. This team should stay the course and not sell low.

If i could...i would give this post an anti-Tommy point...like Mark Blount point  :-\
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Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #40 on: May 30, 2016, 08:07:48 AM »

Offline Androslav

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eja117,
where is a true fan in you?
Positive thought, mantra...
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Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #41 on: May 30, 2016, 08:23:46 AM »

Offline Eja117

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This is such a sad post.

Is this going to be the norm for the offseason? smh. Will Danny ever be able to satisfy anyone?
It would help if the owner doesn't promise fireworks and give us a sparkler.

Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #42 on: May 30, 2016, 08:27:45 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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This is such a sad post.

Is this going to be the norm for the offseason? smh. Will Danny ever be able to satisfy anyone?
It would help if the owner doesn't promise fireworks and give us a sparkler.

LoL .....the fireworks is like " no new taxes  ".....load of Bologna .

The pressure is square on Ainge to produce .   The Coach and player did about all they can do with the level of talent on the present team.

Ainge needs to make a big splash towards being a contender soon.

Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #43 on: May 30, 2016, 08:33:11 AM »

Offline moiso

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Anyone who doesn't think Ainge is doing this rebuild nicely just can't put off gratification.  Unless of course they have an anti Ainge agenda.  Ainge likes to get the better of the team's he deals with.  We should wait for him to continue to do that and stop wanting another immediate championship.  It's unrealistic.

Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #44 on: May 30, 2016, 08:35:39 AM »

Offline mctyson

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AB...nice 7th man on a nice contract

This is where I stopped reading.  If a 1st-team all defender that averaged 15 ppg with 36% shooting from 3 and over 50% on 2 pointers is someone that you think would only be the 7th best player on a contender, I don't think I need to read any more

Yep, I stopped reading too.