Author Topic: The problem for Ainge with trading  (Read 9492 times)

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The problem for Ainge with trading
« on: May 29, 2016, 08:30:38 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Our assets just aren't worth that much, partly because they haven't achieved anything or in some cases players are just worth way more to us than to other teams

This is most likely how teams view our players


Smart....can't shoot, can't pass. Can't get calls from officials. Can't stay healthy due to style of play

Zeller...bad. Nice 3rd or 4th center

AB...nice 7th man on a nice contract

IT...great player. Great contract. Great 4th best player on a team. Needs to be paid like that. Won't want to be after being an all star

Jae Crowder. ...great starter or 6th man on a great contract. Probably one of our best assets

Amir....fine player on fine contract. Whoop de doc

Jordan Mickey...good prospect on good contract. Not worth top 12 pick.

Rozier.....see Jordan Mickey. Might be worth 11th or 12th pick in a weak draft

RJ H....see Rozier...Maybe worth a 15th pick or so in weak draft

Young....maybe worth a mid 2nd rounder

KO...fine 8th man.  Maybe even 7th man.  Ok asset, but not something you get worked up about

3rd pick in two player draft....whoop de doo

Other picks....even less whoop de doo.

You can't expect fireworks like this. This team should stay the course and not sell low. 

Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2016, 08:38:29 PM »

Online BitterJim

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AB...nice 7th man on a nice contract

This is where I stopped reading.  If a 1st-team all defender that averaged 15 ppg with 36% shooting from 3 and over 50% on 2 pointers is someone that you think would only be the 7th best player on a contender, I don't think I need to read any more
I'm bitter.

Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2016, 08:39:36 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I concur, other teams may not want what we have to offer.  Ainge needed the 1 or 2 pick for fireworks.   We are on plan B.

Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2016, 08:48:24 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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And here come the excuses for another Ainge failed summer ...
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2016, 08:48:35 PM »

Offline mr. dee

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Our assets just aren't worth that much, partly because they haven't achieved anything or in some cases players are just worth way more to us than to other teams

This is most likely how teams view our players


Smart....can't shoot, can't pass. Can't get calls from officials. Can't stay healthy due to style of play

Zeller...bad. Nice 3rd or 4th center

AB...nice 7th man on a nice contract

IT...great player. Great contract. Great 4th best player on a team. Needs to be paid like that. Won't want to be after being an all star

Jae Crowder. ...great starter or 6th man on a great contract. Probably one of our best assets

Amir....fine player on fine contract. Whoop de doc

Jordan Mickey...good prospect on good contract. Not worth top 12 pick.

Rozier.....see Jordan Mickey. Might be worth 11th or 12th pick in a weak draft

RJ H....see Rozier...Maybe worth a 15th pick or so in weak draft

Young....maybe worth a mid 2nd rounder

KO...fine 8th man.  Maybe even 7th man.  Ok asset, but not something you get worked up about

3rd pick in two player draft....whoop de doo

Other picks....even less whoop de doo.

You can't expect fireworks like this. This team should stay the course and not sell low.

I can't take this thread seriously because of those bolded parts.

Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2016, 08:49:53 PM »

Offline Smokeeye123

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LMA0. We were 1 or 2 wins away from being the 3 seed in the eastern conference last year. Pretty good for having a roster full of marginal players like you're implying.

IT has the second best contract in the NBA.
AB just made all nba defense 1st team and is on another bargain bin contract.
Same with Crowder great young defensive player on a bargain contract.
And again same with smart.

We have valuable assets. Do we have the assets to trade for a Paul George? No. But if we really wanted to we have the ammo to trade for a lot of players, it just means giving some of these guys up

Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2016, 09:02:11 PM »

Offline Eja117

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What do you guys actually think a first team all defensive player who isn't an all star is worth? 

That would be Tony Allen.
Andrew Bogut was 2nd team last year
Roy Hibbert and Patrick Beverly two years ago....wait...was Hibbert an all star then? He has made one star game I think.
Anderson Varejo and Thabo Sefalosa in 2009-10
Shane Battier and Bruce Bowen and Marcus Camby back in 07-08

Do you suppose the Celtics phone is just blowing up over Avery Bradley? You think Ainge is just sifting through offers that are tough to decide about because Avery has made an all defensive team?  Because he's not. It's not happening. There isn't a single team out there sorta gathering up assets to make a big run at Bradley. It's not happening. And when Ainge makes a call and says "Ok, so for Okafor I'd offer Bradley and ...." if the very next thing out of his mouth isn't "the third pick and..." the next thing he hears is "click."

Okafor....he is an asset. He is an asset because he has a possibility of going to multiple all star games. Like between 3 and 7. Bradley miiiiigggghhhhhtttt get to one.

I am so so so tired of hearing how wonderfully great the All Defensive team is. Like if you could just put together a team of the guys I mentioned up above you would be more than a 5 seed. When you were a kid did you have pictures of Bruce Bowen on your wall? Did anyone? No. They didn't. They had pictures of all stars and various players that averaged over 20 points per game unless your team made the three seed and was eliminated in the first round of the playoffs in which case maybe you had a picture of an all defensive player on your wall.

Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2016, 09:18:20 PM »

Offline Eja117

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To review what Ainge did to get KG and Ray let's look at it for a minute.

He got a 32 year old shooting guard and an early 2nd rounder. It costed a top 5 pick (ok we have that), a guy who had actually been to an all star game once (outside IT we don't have that), and a fine young combo guard. (Who is that? Rozier? Not really. RJ? Nope.)

Then to get KG we traded a guy who had been a 2nd team all rookie (do we have that?), a guy who looked like he might be a future all star (Do we have that? Nope.) a very athletic young guy who couldn't shoot (we DO have that!) a salary piece (we have that), an ok young player (we have that in spades), and cash, and two firsts (we have that).

We do not have the assets to make any kind of comparable deals. One reason is KG was disgruntled at the time. There is no such player this time. And Ray Allen was 32. Find me comparable guys. Oh but wait...we don't have the same assets.

Delonte, top 5 pick, Al Jefferson, Seabass, Wally, Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes > top 3 pick, Smart, Rozier, RJ, Jordan Mickey, KO, Jae, AB

You don't believe me? Ok. Fine. So we trade all those pieces.

This is what our team now looks like

IT
32 year old all star shooting guard
Zeller
disgruntled top 5 player in the league that doesn't exist currently
Jonas Jerebko

16th pick
23rd pick
other picks
Maybe Evan Turner
requisite free agent signing
James Young

Wonderful. It's a start.  There is no Paul Pierce this time around.

Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2016, 09:21:15 PM »

Offline Granath

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Delonte, top 5 pick, Al Jefferson, Seabass, Wally, Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes > top 3 pick, Smart, Rozier, RJ, Jordan Mickey, KO, Jae, AB

The group you think is better? It won 24 games.
The group you think is worse? It won 48 games. And it has the higher draft pick.

Thanks for playing, please try again.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2016, 09:21:22 PM »

Offline walker834

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If you look at the successful teams right now most of them were built through the draft.  The Celtics did something different last time, traded for KG and Ray when we had Pierce.  We got Kobe once and lost to him the second time.  But OKC, Cleveland, GS all had great runs of drafting their own players.  Cleveland lost Lebron but he came back.  Even SA was built through the draft. The Lakers added guys like Gasol and Shaq to go with Kobe.  Ainge is in a weird spot.   I feel like we have some scrappy players and are trying to play all angles where we can sign free agents, make trades and also utilize the draft. 

I hope he doesn't fubar it up.  We have 8 picks this year where I doubt he is going to all our picks but I hope he builds through the draft in some regard.  He's really in position to do that the next 3 years.   GS got Klay, Curry and Green and all those guys through the draft if I'm not mistaken.  OKC with Durant, Ibaka, Westbrook, Adams etc.  Cleveland made the deal for Love, brought Lebron back.  Drafted Kyrie.

Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2016, 09:25:06 PM »

Offline ThaPreacher

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So, Henny Penny, is the sky falling?

Okafor can be had. But the Lakers might get him first.
"Just do what you do best."  -Red Auerbach-

Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2016, 09:39:03 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Delonte, top 5 pick, Al Jefferson, Seabass, Wally, Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes > top 3 pick, Smart, Rozier, RJ, Jordan Mickey, KO, Jae, AB

The group you think is better? It won 24 games.
The group you think is worse? It won 48 games. And it has the higher draft pick.

Thanks for playing, please try again.
Ok. Then let's see the fireworks. Looking forward to it. I guess we're winning the championship next year.

Perhaps it's possible the market has changed

Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2016, 09:40:06 PM »

Offline Eja117

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So, Henny Penny, is the sky falling?

Okafor can be had. But the Lakers might get him first.
The sky isn't falling but there also isn't a rainbow in it that leads to a bowl of lucky charms either.

Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2016, 09:59:58 PM »

Offline flybono

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For the luv of sweet geezus. Philly and the Bulls are not the only teams in the NBA.
27 other squads to deal with. If Ainge and scouting have done their homework, they will know whose available on every Roster 1 thru 15 on the depth chart.

Re: The problem for Ainge with trading
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2016, 10:03:44 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Sean Grande was just on the celticsbeat podcast and seemed to throw ice on the jimmy butler thing by saying butler isn't as dramatic an upgrade over jae crowder as you think. 

Sure, grande is a Celtic guy, but I do think a few of our players have pretty decent trade value.  Bradley and crowder are assets.  Smart is still a quality asset based on his perceived potential.  The #3 pick is an asset. 

I do think ainge will definitely have options this summer.  He might be better off keeping the guys teams want, though.