Author Topic: Is Bender so high on the draft board because of Porzingis?  (Read 3587 times)

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Re: Is Bender so high on the draft board because of Porzingis?
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2016, 11:33:31 AM »

Offline droopdog7

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As others have said, no.  Bender is is his person and is being judged on his own merits.

Re: Is Bender so high on the draft board because of Porzingis?
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2016, 11:36:39 AM »

Offline jambr380

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As others have said, he has been on the NBA radar for several years and was projected as a top 5 pick a year ago; however, I do think that he stayed in the top 5 range because of Porzingis' success.

DarkAzcura posted a mock from last June - Even though he is still relatively the same player, Skal has fallen quite a bit since then because of his disappointing season. Bender, on the other hand, who also had a fairly disappointing season (at least in terms of MPG), has only risen since then. Others will disagree, but if Porzingis had come into the league and laid a total egg, we might be see Bender in the mid-late lottery, rather than solidified in the top 5.

Re: Is Bender so high on the draft board because of Porzingis?
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2016, 11:40:29 AM »

Offline DarkAzcura

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As others have said, he has been on the NBA radar for several years and was projected as a top 5 pick a year ago; however, I do think that he stayed in the top 5 range because of Porzingis' success.

DarkAzcura posted a mock from last June - Even though he is still relatively the same player, Skal has fallen quite a bit since then because of his disappointing season. Bender, on the other hand, who also had a fairly disappointing season (at least in terms of MPG), has only risen since then. Others will disagree, but if Porzingis had come into the league and laid a total egg, we might be see Bender in the mid-late lottery, rather than solidified in the top 5.

This may be true, though, I think it's more disappointing for scouts to see Skal struggle because he is struggling against players his own age (actually he is an old freshman which makes it even worse for him, he should be a college sophomore). Bender has a built in (valid) excuse of playing in a pro league against actual grown men as essentially a high school senior. If Bender were a year and half older (Skal's age) and still putting up these numbers, I think he would actually drop like Skal has regardless of Porzingis' success.

As it stands, Bender is pretty much putting up the same numbers as Skal in a far more difficult and structured league while being a year and a half younger.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 12:04:30 PM by DarkAzcura »

Re: Is Bender so high on the draft board because of Porzingis?
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2016, 11:49:52 AM »

Offline HomerSapien

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No.  Bender has been identified as a very promising International NBA prospect since he was 15 years old and viewed as the top International prospect in this class for 2, maybe 3 years.

Re: Is Bender so high on the draft board because of Porzingis?
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2016, 11:58:08 AM »

Offline RedClaw33

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Quote
Most of the posts on this thread are fabricated.....

And yet you can't refute stats, nice try, go back to the drawing board.  Most all of these guys got more playing time and some of them played young too.

A guy who can't jump and is weak, can't jump and is weak, no matter if he comes from the Brooklyn, Asia, or Europe.

Can't refute what stats?

Bender has been a projected top pick in this draft before Prozingas ever stepped foot on an NBA court...that is a fact.

As for the success rate of European Players vs. American Born players....Statistics favor American born players in terms of becoming All-stars...I never stated otherwise.

My comment is that foreign players are making up a larger and larger portion of NBA rosters and we shouldn't dismiss a player because he plays overseas.   

I'm personally fine with any pick or trade Danny makes...I just want it to be the right one. Bender could be a great NBA player he also could be a flop.  The data only suggests that he won't be an all-star.  The data suggest the same thing about most players selected in the lottery regardless of where they are from, outside the number 1 pick.

« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 12:03:42 PM by RedClaw33 »
2016 Draft Board #3 Pick

Bender>Brown>Dunn>Murray>Hield

Re: Is Bender so high on the draft board because of Porzingis?
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2016, 12:35:30 PM »

Offline gift

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Bender has actually been a highly ranked prospect for his class longer than Porzingis was. The NBA has been scouting him for years. Porzingis' success has some impact, sure. It makes teams think twice about passing up a tall, skilled European even if they are more familiar with all of the American players. But he's not just a product of the Porzingis hype. And yeah, they are quite different players.

Re: Is Bender so high on the draft board because of Porzingis?
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2016, 01:58:56 PM »

Offline OldSchoolDude

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After the FIBA's U18 European Championship, Bender was considered an NBA lottery level talent.   

http://www.si.com/nba/2014/08/06/fiba-croatia-dragan-bender-maccabi-tel-aviv-nba

And this from a European article coving the same FIBA's U18 European Championship:

“Croatia, by far, is the most talented team in the tournament alongside Turkey. Many scouts from the NBA think Dragan Bender is the best NBA prospect in Konya. I’ve been following Bender like two years and maybe he had his best game against Lithuania, collecting 34 points (68% FG), 14 rebounds, 2 steals, 2 blocks and ZERO TURNOVERS.”

“I did expect Lithuania to fight against Croatia and at least stay in the game until last minute. I had them after Croatia in this group but maybe Sabonis played one of his worst games offensively, and they couldn’t manage to respond to the amazing Dragan Bender.”

http://euroleagueadventures.com/u18-european-championships-flaccadori-and-mussini-but-mostly-bender/

Here are some highlights of Bender dominating Sabonis:

https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=AwrTcds4JktXXXIA1X0PxQt.?p=bender+vs+sabonnis+U18&fr2=sb-top&hspart=GenieoYaho&hsimp=yhs-fh_ds&type=a1430316655430757

He was playing big time basketball against big time completion even before that tournament.

“That summer (2013), the Bender brothers traveled to Barcelona, Spain, to play in a Euroleague youth tournament. In one game, Dragan, who was two years younger than virtually every other player in the tournament, matched up against Kristaps Porzingis. Dragan scored 11 points against the future NBA lottery pick and, according to several observers who witnessed the matchup, held his own against the older Porzingis.”

http://thelab.bleacherreport.com/the-next-porzingis/



Re: Is Bender so high on the draft board because of Porzingis?
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2016, 02:14:28 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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Setting aside all the info above, it seems odd to believe that NBA scouts and GMs, with years of experience evaluating talent of all kinds, would be so simplistic as to meaningfully base their evaluation of Bender on Porzingis, just because he was the "last big Euro" or something.

Re: Is Bender so high on the draft board because of Porzingis?
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2016, 03:33:56 PM »

Offline Stig

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I've no doubt Bender has been high on scout's radar for a long time, I just think Porzingis helped him staying there a bit longer, he hasn't shown much in the limited minutes he played in his own league.

Here's some stats comparison, Porzingis at Bender's age would be 2013-14 season in ACB:

2013-14  14.9min, 6.7pts, 2.8rb, 0.3ast, 0.9blk, 0.476%

This is Benders:

2015-16  14.5min, 5.5pts, 3rb, 0.75ast, 0.89blk, 0.466%

So they put similar numbers at the same age. However, Porzingis was playing in a better Spanish league, the next year Porzingis played 6 more minutes but all his stats had gone up by 50-70%. If Bender stays in Tel Aviv for another year and put up similar production then I'd be more ok for Angie to pick him at 3.

Re: Is Bender so high on the draft board because of Porzingis?
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2016, 03:51:38 PM »

Offline alldaboston

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No. In Bender's defense, he has been high on boards for a while now. However, the success of Porzingis is the main thing keeping the hype real for now.
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about

Re: Is Bender so high on the draft board because of Porzingis?
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2016, 04:36:27 PM »

Offline billysan

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I would love to see this kid do well as a Celtic. Even Dino Radja well would be fine with me.

The hype machine is the hype machine though, we fell for it with Gerald Green and others have made similar mistakes. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck it might play NBA basketball like a duck as well. Remember Kedrick Brown? Alaa Abdelnaby?Joe Forte? Marcus Banks?All miserable failures and the list goes on.

You just have to take chances with these guys and try to make the most informed decision possible. I am sure a bunch will be gloating in 2 years after Bender is drafted and another bunch will be admitting they were wrong. Just like we all did when we drafted Gerald Green.
"First fix their hearts" -Eizo Shimabuku

Re: Is Bender so high on the draft board because of Porzingis?
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2016, 04:42:42 PM »

Offline greece66

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Ehm, I have no clue about whether Bender will be a bust or he really deserves the #3 pick.

But at times I do wonder if he would be scrutinized so much if he were American and not Croatian.