People keep targeting the wrong Philly big.

[loco_91]

I like Noel a lot. I think he's a game changer on defense, and he can be efficient in a limited role on offense. That's a well-established prototype for an elite big man. He's not quite the awesome rebounder you'd hope, but at least he isn't below average like Okafor.

That said, Noel has only 1 year left on his rookie deal, and it isn't obvious that he's worth the max. #3 seems like an overpay. An interesting trade would be like AB + #16 for Noel, which the Sixers might take if they don't want to pay Noel in FA.

[CroCorvus]

Well Philly will surely not going to keep all three centers, so they could trade either one of them, they will decide. All three of them have some risks with them. Embiid is a huge injury risk, without single minute played in the NBA. Okafor showed potential but as someone already said, there is no guarantee he will be abe to play decent defense. Also there is character issues with him.
Of all three, the most player I like is Noel. He's prototype of modern center, very agile, real rim protector, can guard multiple positions, but there are legit injury risks wit him also. He's a hometown kid and I would be very excited if we could trade for him. Maybe him and Covington for our bkn pick...

[The One]

I liked Jay King's breakdown of the positives and negatives about Okafor.

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2016/05/jahlil_okafor_boston_celtics_t.html


This stood out...

"The summary: Okafor can fill it up but needs to learn how to play winning basketball. That starts at the defensive end of the court, where centers are targeted repeatedly if they can't hang, but extends to other areas, like offensive awareness and rebounding."

[TheSundanceKid]

I honestly think some of the flaws in Okafor's game that people see are overblown. There were a lot of times last year where it looked like he just didn't give a crap about the rest of the team and went solo.

Should we be worried about that? Maybe but the Philly situation is pretty unique. He chose Duke at college and won, to go from that to the biggest dumpster fire in basketball history would make me say "screw it, I'm gonna get mine"

You can talk about professionalism but it was one year and he hasn't shown the attitude problems elsewhere.

[TheSundanceKid]

On the rebounding front his DRB% is pretty consistent with College. His ORB% has fallen but that'll happen on a poor 3 point shooting team playing next to Noel.

DRB% has gone from 18.2 to 17.8
ORB% has gone from 14.8 to 8.1

I don't know what is considered elite tbh but I'd say that's good considering he's playing alongside another rebounder in Noel

EDIT: Noel had DRB% of 22.2 so yeah that statement carries some weight considering Noel has no range and Okafor has a little

EDIT 2: It's very simialr to the Gasol/Randolph tandem who have 20.2 and 20.7 respectively. Noone would call them poor defensive rebounders

[CFAN38]

I would place Okafor's value higher then Noel for the simple fact that his skill set isn't easily attainable. The league has changed but having a 20ppg post player is still a value to a team and if properly built around I believe Okafor can be a main cog on a good team. Noel is a solid player who will continue to develop on offense and will some day be on an all defensive team but his skill set isn't difficult to find. At varies level of talent and effectiveness John Henson, Biyombo, WCS, Gobert, D Jordan all quickly come to mind as offensively limited defensive bigs. In this current Draft class D Davis and Poeltl both are lottery talents who could some day provide high end defense to the team that drafts them.

This isnt to say I wouldn't be happy to see Noel on the Celtics I would just rather see Okafor.   

[The One]

Was watching some video on him and he is also pretty amazing with his high post offense, including some crossover dribbles...a man that size doing that stuff is impressive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZihwmQ3PaC8

He could be a gravitational force that would put pressure on a defense.  Once he was doubled or tripled...he could pass it out to some open shooters.

I am intrigued.

[loco_91]

Was watching some video on him and he is also pretty amazing with his high post offense, including some crossover dribbles...a man that size doing that stuff is impressive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZihwmQ3PaC8

He could be a gravitational force that would put pressure on a defense.  Once he was doubled or tripled...he could pass it out to some open shooters.

I am intrigued.

Jahil is certainly talented. Pristine footwork, super-quick spins, soft touch. The thing about getting double teamed and kicking it out though... that's the big question mark with his offense. There was one clip in that video where he got double teamed like 3 times on one possession and he just kept going at the basket. Had multiple opportunities to find an open teammate, but he just never looked up. Ended up taking + missing a tough one. Only ended up on the highlight reel because he got the rebound and put it back... but most of the time that just turns into a miss or a turnover. That's the reason his highlight reel looks so much better than his advanced stats.

[alldaboston]

Was watching some video on him and he is also pretty amazing with his high post offense, including some crossover dribbles...a man that size doing that stuff is impressive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZihwmQ3PaC8

He could be a gravitational force that would put pressure on a defense.  Once he was doubled or tripled...he could pass it out to some open shooters.

I am intrigued.

I think he would be a really nice fit for us. As long as there is another shooting big on the floor (like KO) i think Brad could make it work.

Although, the concerns of the defense are very valid. I wonder how we could hide that.

[The One]

Was watching some video on him and he is also pretty amazing with his high post offense, including some crossover dribbles...a man that size doing that stuff is impressive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZihwmQ3PaC8

He could be a gravitational force that would put pressure on a defense.  Once he was doubled or tripled...he could pass it out to some open shooters.

I am intrigued.

Jahil is certainly talented. Pristine footwork, super-quick spins, soft touch. The thing about getting double teamed and kicking it out though... that's the big question mark with his offense. There was one clip in that video where he got double teamed like 3 times on one possession and he just kept going at the basket. Had multiple opportunities to find an open teammate, but he just never looked up. Ended up taking + missing a tough one. Only ended up on the highlight reel because he got the rebound and put it back... but most of the time that just turns into a miss or a turnover. That's the reason his highlight reel looks so much better than his advanced stats.

You are so right...he will have to get better at that.  I read somewhere that he was decent at that in college but regressed in Philly....shocker, I know.

[The One]

Was watching some video on him and he is also pretty amazing with his high post offense, including some crossover dribbles...a man that size doing that stuff is impressive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZihwmQ3PaC8

He could be a gravitational force that would put pressure on a defense.  Once he was doubled or tripled...he could pass it out to some open shooters.

I am intrigued.

I think he would be a really nice fit for us. As long as there is another shooting big on the floor (like KO) i think Brad could make it work.

Although, the concerns of the defense are very valid. I wonder how we could hide that.

True...but they would both have to improve defensively for it to work on both ends of the court.

[alldaboston]

Was watching some video on him and he is also pretty amazing with his high post offense, including some crossover dribbles...a man that size doing that stuff is impressive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZihwmQ3PaC8

He could be a gravitational force that would put pressure on a defense.  Once he was doubled or tripled...he could pass it out to some open shooters.

I am intrigued.

I think he would be a really nice fit for us. As long as there is another shooting big on the floor (like KO) i think Brad could make it work.

Although, the concerns of the defense are very valid. I wonder how we could hide that.

True...but they would both have to improve defensively for it to work on both ends of the court.

Yeah that's the biggest concern I guess. If only we could find a good defensive big who could also spread the floor...

Maybe...bender? If he gets stronger? I guess I'm starting to see the appeal in keeping the pick and taking him.

[ssspence]

I hope Noel gets out of Philly. I think he's going to flourish in his next NBA home.

[colincb]

I hope Noel gets out of Philly. I think he's going to flourish in his next NBA home.

Noel certainly didn't get the right development in Philly. All part of the Plan according to the resident Hinkiephiles. His offense could conceivably get passable, but his defense should be top notch. I can't give up the #3 for him though.

I like him better than Okafor who will never be passable defensively. He's awful. Deer in headlights reaction time. Big Al/Bargnani awful (unfair, no one else is Bargnani awful though Okafor had the second worst VORP among the top 60 centers by minutes played last year to Bargnani). Okafor's offensive numbers are so much worse than I would have expected. You can see great talent on that side of the ball, but he's just not that efficient and his rebounding was not strong either. Have to think he'd improve a lot, but I don't see All-Star in his future. Al Jefferson I do see.

[mmmmm]

No offense, but almost  any deal for Noel disgusts me. Especially when we include valuable assets. The guy doesn't move the needle whatsoever. He can't score. We need offense. And our defense is perfectly fine. 4th in the league with Isaiah,  sully,  and kelly playing big minutes.

Honestly, what good did our defense do us in the Atlanta series? Did it matter that much? We couldn't score, and we lost the series because of it. I'd much rather trade for Okafor than Noel.

We haven't watched the same Atlanta series.
Boston couldn't score because 3 of our best shooters where injured or haven't recovered.
Our offense were fine the entire season and should have been if we have stayed healthy.
Okafor is NOT Duncan and will never be, too many flaws.
I prefer Noel as well, more complete player. He can improve offensively.

We were one of the worst shooting teams in the NBA the entire season.  We tied for the 4th worst FG% (43.9%) and ranked 3rd worst outright in 3PT% (33.5%).   Yes, we had an overall decent, 10th-ranked Offensive Rating of 106.8 pts/100, but that disguises the fact that when Isaiah was off the floor, we had an ORtg of just 101 pts/100, which would be worse than the Lakers offense and better than only the Sixers.

So, no, our offense was not really fine the entire season.

Of course, I won't argue that reaching into the Sixers to find the offensive solution sounds very appealing.

I'm inclined at the moment to just keep the pick.